15 Jul
2009
15 Jul
'09
12:32 p.m.
--- On Wed, 7/15/09, Barry Watzman <Watzman at neo.rr.com> wrote:
The correct name for what you are
[incorrectly] calling a "PCMCIA Card" is a
"PC Card". PCMCIA is the name of the organization
that owns the trademarks
and they changed the name of the CARDS from "PCMCIA cards"
to "PC Cards"
more than a decade ago (early 1990's), but people just
won't let go.
And here I always thought that PCMCIA stood for "People Can't Memorize Computer
Industry Acronyms"...
-Ian
15 Jul
15 Jul
12:42 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Mr Ian Primus<ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote:
--- On Wed, 7/15/09, Barry Watzman <Watzman at
neo.rr.com> wrote:
I was at an Amiga user group meeting when the A600 came out. Some
younger guy (my age) was talking about PCMCIA cards since the A600 has
a slot, and one of the older members asked him to "speak English" and
"what does all that mean, anyway?" She pounced on him when he
couldn't regurgitate "Personal Computer Memory Card Industry
Association" on the spot ("how do you expect us to know what you are
talking about when you use words you don't even know what they
mean?!?")
Lots of acronymitis back then. Still a lot now, but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
-ethan
The correct name for what you are
[incorrectly] calling a "PCMCIA Card" is a
"PC Card".
And here I always thought that PCMCIA stood for "People Can't Memorize Computer
Industry Acronyms"... 
1:51 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Lots of acronymitis back then. Still a lot now, but
users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they insist on doing
with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). We could have ended up with
"puccumsia" :-)
2:08 p.m.
On Jul 15, 2009, at 4:51 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
*BARF* If I hear that ONE MORE TIME..
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Lots of
acronymitis back then. Still a lot now, but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they
insist on doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). We could have ended up with "puccumsia" :-)
That sounds like something one would go to a doctor to have removed.
-Dave
2:09 p.m.
We could have
ended up with "puccumsia" :-)
That sounds like something one would go to a doctor to have removed.
2:20 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Dave McGuire<mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On Jul 15, 2009, at 4:51 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
?*BARF* ?If I hear that ONE MORE TIME..
Perhaps the successor to SQL should be something like Advanced
Relational Structured Expressions.
... so at least you could ask "who knows anything about MyARSE?" or
say "we need to hire an expert on MyARSE!" etc. That should take care
of pronunciation-of-acronym problems.
Hilarity ensues.
-ethan
Lots of acronymitis back then. ?Still a lot now, but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they insist on
doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh).
2:28 p.m.
On Jul 15, 2009, at 5:20 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
*BARF* If I hear that ONE MORE TIME..
Perhaps the successor to SQL should be something like Advanced
Relational Structured Expressions.
... so at least you could ask "who knows anything about MyARSE?" or
say "we need to hire an expert on MyARSE!" etc. That should take care
of pronunciation-of-acronym problems.
Hilarity ensues.
Priceless!
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Lots of
acronymitis back then. Still a lot now, but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they
insist on
doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). 
2:09 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Jules
Richardson<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I hear that one pronounced as letters "EssCueEll" and as a word
"sequel", but I've never seen anyone try to write it any way other
than SQL. Are you saying you've seen it written that way? That
sounds to me like the writer is wallowing in ignorance and only ever
heard the word used and translated it to a common word in English
(which reminds me of the story from The DEC Professional about the
self-taught, insular MicroVAX System Manager who called Field Service
up to say his "Kaypoo Cashay" was broken).
Lots of acronymitis back then. ?Still a lot now, but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they insist on
doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). We could have ended up with "puccumsia" :-)
Bleah!
-ethan
2:50 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Jules
Richardson<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
No, just pronounced that way.
I don't mind it for most TLAs - but something about the SQL really annoys.
Maybe it was just that it always seemed to be pronounced as individual letters
for years, and everyone was happy with it that way, then 'sequel' started
appearing sometime in the 90s; I don't like change for no good reason :-)
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I hear that one pronounced as letters "EssCueEll" and as a word
"sequel", but I've never seen anyone try to write it any way other
than SQL. Are you saying you've seen it written that way? Lots of acronymitis back then. Still a lot now,
but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a
word, like they insist on
doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh).
3:25 p.m.
On Jul 15, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
I hear that one
pronounced as letters "EssCueEll" and as a word
"sequel", but I've never seen anyone try to write it any way other
than SQL. Are you saying you've seen it written that way?
No, just pronounced that way.
I don't mind it for most TLAs - but something about the SQL really
annoys. Maybe it was just that it always seemed to be pronounced as
individual letters for years, and everyone was happy with it that
way, then 'sequel' started appearing sometime in the 90s; I don't
like change for no good reason :-)
I've noticed a reason, but not a good one. Since SQL has become
more "mainstream" in the past decade or so, more and more clueless
newbies have been exposed to it. It's these people who I most often
hear saying "sequel".
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Lots of
acronymitis back then. Still a lot now, but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a
word, like they
insist on
doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). 
3:57 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
I don't mind it for most TLAs - but something
about the SQL really
annoys. Maybe it was just that it always seemed to be pronounced as
individual letters for years, and everyone was happy with it that way,
then 'sequel' started appearing sometime in the 90s; I don't like
change for no good reason :-)
I knew a guy that tried to get everyone to call it "squeal", (though he
mostly reserved it for SQL Server) -- sadly he didn't succeed. Kinda
like they tried to get scsi to be pronounced sexy instead of scuzzy, but
in reverse. :)
4:59 p.m.
On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 18:57 -0400, Ray Arachelian wrote:
Jules Richardson wrote:
I always heard it as "sequel" because it was an extension to quel (query
language) and someone was making a little jokey.
Either way, its much better than some of the "tech training" people
around here that insist on pronouncing "www" as "dub-dub-dub"
I suppose the pronunciation of "etc" is a flamewar waiting to happen as
well :)
I don't mind it for most TLAs - but something
about the SQL really
annoys. Maybe it was just that it always seemed to be pronounced as
individual letters for years, and everyone was happy with it that way,
then 'sequel' started appearing sometime in the 90s; I don't like
change for no good reason :-)
I knew a guy that tried to get everyone to call it "squeal", (though he
mostly reserved it for SQL Server) -- sadly he didn't succeed. Kinda
like they tried to get scsi to be pronounced sexy instead of scuzzy, but
in reverse. :)
6:22 p.m.
Brian Wheeler wrote:
I suppose the pronunciation of "etc" is a
flamewar waiting to happen as
well :)
It's always "Et-Cee" short for et-cetera. (let the flames
begin.)
(I've always found it odd that etc wasn't called something like /conf,
but of course, in the early Unixen, there were binaries in /etc so it
really was an et cetera directory.)
Another fun one is what to call "vi" - (I always called vai, never veee
aye - that can start a flame fest too) but if anyone calls it 6, they'll
get slapped with a tuna. :-)
fsck (pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
6:26 p.m.
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote:
fsck (pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds
like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
I learned it as "fusck", which is both appropriate and catartic.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
6:32 p.m.
On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Ray Arachelian wrote:
fsck (pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds
like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
On the production systems at a company I worked for in the
mid-1990s, which consisted of about 1500 SunOS machines, we used
rdist to send out a symlink to fsck called "fist"...so we could fist
the filesystems. Such a feeling of power. =)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
10:54 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Ray Arachelian<ray at arachelian.com> wrote:
Brian Wheeler wrote:
I usually say 'et-cee', but I also frequently spell it out
"ee-tee-cee" for folks. I do _not_ say "et-cetera", though I have
heard that many times.
I suppose the pronunciation of "etc" is
a flamewar waiting to happen as
well :)
It's always "Et-Cee" short for et-cetera. ?(let the flames begin.)
(I've always found it odd that etc wasn't
called something like /conf,
but of course, in the early Unixen, there were binaries in /etc so it
really was an et cetera directory.)
Make sense (my direct UNIX experience only goes back to 4.0BSD and
2.9BSD, though I do plan to play with some older stuff in the
semi-near future).
Another fun one is what to call "vi" - (I
always called vai, never veee
aye - that can start a flame fest too)
I learned 'veee aye' 25 years ago and still call it that. If it's
short for "vi"sual editor, shouldn't it be "vih" then? ;-)
but if anyone calls it 6, they'll get slapped with
a tuna. :-)
I think I heard someone call it that once, but I also think they were trolling.
fsck (pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds
like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
Never heard that pronounced as a word, just spelled out.
Then there's the old joke about the university help desk dude who's
trying to help a co-ed with a problem with her terminal session...
"let me do a 'ps' on your 'tty'... you do and I'll knock your
teeth
out!"
-ethan
16 Jul
16 Jul
11:27 a.m.
Brian Wheeler wrote:
I've always pronouced it 'in full' as 'et cetera'.
I suppose the pronunciation of "etc" is
a flamewar waiting to happen as
well :)
It's always "Et-Cee" short for et-cetera. (let the flames
begin.) Another fun one is what to call "vi" - (I
always called vai, never veee
aye - that can start a flame fest too) but if anyone calls it 6, they'll
Again, to me it's 'Vee Eye'.
get slapped with a tuna. :-)
You have my permison to some and do a fish slapping dance on my mother,
who, when I first installed Minix <mumble> years ago (it was, IIRC,
before Linux was first announced), read the start of the manual and said
'What's Six?'.
fsck (pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
Fuss-Chuck here :-)
The one that really annoys me is to areviate 'motherboard' as 'MoBo' and
pronounce it 'Mow-Bow'.
-tony
12:06 p.m.
On Thursday (07/16/2009 at 07:27PM +0100), Tony Duell wrote:
Are these little solid state things that light up L-E-D's or are they
LEADs? You know, like the stuff that's in a shotgun shell?
I once encountered an extremely irrate tech support guy in the hall who
had just been on the phone for several hours with a customer. It seems
they just could not get this very simple thing to work at the customer's
end while helping him install some software. Long story short, the
customer was just unable to gain superuser access to install the code.
They kept telling him to login as root and execute this command. But he
continually got invalid (you know, like crippled) user. Finally, the
tech support guy said you are typing r-o-o-t right? And the customer
says, well, no, "root", r-u-t-e.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
fsck
(pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
Fuss-Chuck here :-)
The one that really annoys me is to areviate 'motherboard' as 'MoBo' and
pronounce it 'Mow-Bow'.
11:04 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Chris Elmquist<chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
Are these little solid state things that light up
L-E-D's or are they
LEADs? ?You know, like the stuff that's in a shotgun shell?
I solder my LED leads with lead and tin ;-)
I once encountered an extremely irrate tech support
guy in the hall who
had just been on the phone for several hours with a customer....
?Finally, the
tech support guy said you are typing r-o-o-t right? ?And the customer
says, well, no, "root", r-u-t-e.
Probably because you didn't tell him to log in as "ruht" (short U sound).
17 Jul
17 Jul
4:27 a.m.
On Friday 17 July 2009, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Perhaps that is the, erm, "root" of the problem. :)
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
I once
encountered an extremely irrate tech support guy in the hall
who had just been on the phone for several hours with a
customer.... Finally, the
tech support guy said you are typing r-o-o-t right? ?And the
customer says, well, no, "root", r-u-t-e.
Probably because you didn't tell him to log in as "ruht" (short U
sound).
8:54 a.m.
Probably
because you didn't tell him to log in as "ruht" (short U sound).
Best one I've heard from a Sun engineer was after the client being asked
to su, she replied "I am at the little fence."
7:15 a.m.
Chris Elmquist wrote:
On Thursday (07/16/2009 at 07:27PM +0100), Tony Duell
wrote:
Are these little solid state things that light up L-E-D's or are they
LEADs? You know, like the stuff that's in a shotgun shell?
Argh - *that* was it. I knew there was another one, along with 'sequel', that
infuriated me... :P
fsck
(pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
Fuss-Chuck here :-)
The one that really annoys me is to areviate 'motherboard' as 'MoBo' and
pronounce it 'Mow-Bow'. They kept telling him to login as root and execute
this command. But he
continually got invalid (you know, like crippled) user. Finally, the
tech support guy said you are typing r-o-o-t right? And the customer
says, well, no, "root", r-u-t-e.
Heh, I had similar bafflement a few days ago; wife's moved to a job where hey
have a Linux server which is left on - nobody there knows what's on it, has
ever really heard of Linux/UNIX, or knows what any of the accounts/passwords
are :-) I think I'll go in one day next week and try to get some sense out of
it... (the joys of previous employees setting things up, not documenting them,
and then leaving!)
cheers
Jules
11:49 a.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Chris Elmquist<chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
Are these little solid state things that light up
L-E-D's or are they
LEADs? ?You know, like the stuff that's in a shotgun shell?
I have it pronounced "leads" (like the metal, not the things hanging
off your oscilloscope)...by employees of Radio Shack. Ufff.
Here's another: "DEC" is "deck" but never "Dee Ee Cee,"
while "NEC"
is never "neck," but "En Ee Cee."
12:13 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason T" <silent700 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find
....)
I have it pronounced "leads" (like the metal, not the things hanging
off your oscilloscope)...by employees of Radio Shack. Ufff.
===
Even that's ambiguous... just like you said.
To me they've always been L-E-Ds... since their cousin is an L-C-D. Then
again, I think I called LEDs that since before LCDs were common..
I don't tend to pronounce acronyms that much, since they aren't meant to be
pronounced (which leads to interesting acronyms like "VW", which takes
longer to pronounce than the word it abbreviates, but then again I'm
thankful we don't call it a "voow").
Jim
12:17 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim MacKenzie
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:14 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay
find ....)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason T" <silent700 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay
find
....)
I have it pronounced "leads" (like the metal, not the things hanging
off your oscilloscope)...by employees of Radio Shack. Ufff.
===
Even that's ambiguous... just like you said.
To me they've always been L-E-Ds... since their cousin is an L-C-D.
Then
again, I think I called LEDs that since before LCDs were common..
I don't tend to pronounce acronyms that much, since they aren't meant
to be
pronounced (which leads to interesting acronyms like "VW", which takes
longer to pronounce than the word it abbreviates, but then again I'm
thankful we don't call it a "voow").
"Vee-dub." -- Ian, proud alumnus of the "Yoo-dub" (University of
Washington)
20 Jul
20 Jul
6:08 a.m.
Jim MacKenzie wrote:
I don't tend to pronounce acronyms that much,
since they aren't meant to
be pronounced (which leads to interesting acronyms like "VW", which
takes longer to pronounce than the word it abbreviates, but then again
I'm thankful we don't call it a "voow").
I often hear "VW" pronounced "vee-dub".
Peace... Sridhar
17 Jul
17 Jul
12:20 p.m.
On 17 Jul 2009 at 13:49, Jason T wrote:
I have it pronounced "leads" (like the
metal, not the things hanging
off your oscilloscope)...by employees of Radio Shack. Ufff.
I'm still waiting for someone's newborn daughter to be called "Elly
Dee" (or "Elsie Dee").
--Chuck
12:32 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 17 Jul 2009 at 13:49, Jason T wrote:
Oooh, COOL!
Probably a good thing I can't have kids...
Doc
I have it pronounced "leads" (like the
metal, not the things hanging
off your oscilloscope)...by employees of Radio Shack. Ufff.
I'm still waiting for someone's newborn daughter to be called "Elly
Dee" (or "Elsie Dee").
5:05 p.m.
I'm still
waiting for someone's newborn daughter to be called "Elly
Dee" (or "Elsie Dee").
Probably a good thing I can't have kids... 
8:30 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Cameron Kaiser<spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
We considered naming our daughter Poly Ester. lol
brian
? ?Probably a
good thing I can't have kids...
I'd name mine Ellis Dee.
1:18 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Chuck Guzis<cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone's newborn
daughter to be called "Elly
Dee" (or "Elsie Dee").
There was a traffic guy on the local Chicago (home of Lake Shore
Drive) talk station who called himself "Ellis Dee."
5:05 p.m.
I'm still
waiting for someone's newborn daughter to be called "Elly
Dee" (or "Elsie Dee").
There was a traffic guy on the local Chicago (home of Lake Shore
Drive) talk station who called himself "Ellis Dee." 
8:13 p.m.
New subject: OT Discussions
I realize I'm on cctalk so there is going to be some off topic
discussion. But it really seems as though people really go far and deep
once things go off topic.
I might be out of line here, but I like 'the 30 second rule'. If it
takes you less than 30 seconds to compose a reply, perhaps it is best
not to send it.
I love the depth and breadth of knowledge on the list. But with so many
smart people, it seems like a constant game to see who can outwit the
others. Unfortunately, that makes the the list very noisy.
Mike
18 Jul
18 Jul
1:41 a.m.
New subject: OT Discussions
On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 22:13 -0500, Michael B. Brutman wrote:
I realize I'm on cctalk so there is going to be
some off topic
discussion. But it really seems as though people really go far and deep
once things go off topic.
I might be out of line here, but I like 'the 30 second rule'. If it
takes you less than 30 seconds to compose a reply, perhaps it is best
not to send it.
I love the depth and breadth of knowledge on the list. But with so many
smart people, it seems like a constant game to see who can outwit the
others. Unfortunately, that makes the the list very noisy.
I like the noise. If you don't, take it to cc-tech - that's what it's
for.
The classiccmp list is populated with some clever, erudite and witty
characters with the kind of sense of humour you need to have to own and
work on decades-old equipment. Without the off-topic blether the list
would be dry screeds of part numbers and trainspotting notes.
Gordon 2M0YEQ
4:29 p.m.
New subject: OT Discussions
On Sun, 2009-07-19 at 18:09 -0500, Jay West wrote:
I agree with Michael.
Okay, then. I haven't got any classic computers any more so I don't see
a lot of point in hanging around on the list if it's going to lose the
interesting stuff.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Gordon 2M0YEQ
21 Jul
21 Jul
7 a.m.
New subject: OT Discussions
2009/7/20 Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net>:
On Sun, 2009-07-19 at 18:09 -0500, Jay West wrote:
And I agree with Gordon - and will be very sad to see him go.
If you don't like OT chatter, resign from CCtalk and just stick to
CCtech. Rigorously on-topic fora are almost inevitably very dry and
dull.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
I agree with Michael.
Okay, then. ?I haven't got any classic computers any more so I don't see
a lot of point in hanging around on the list if it's going to lose the
interesting stuff.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Gordon 2M0YEQ 
6:43 p.m.
New subject: OT Discussions
Yes but I agree with Michael, the SNR is pretty low here.
I find that I delete a hell of a lot more than I read.
The other problem is that good information is posted here, you have to filter through all
the noise which is annoying after a while
--- On Sat, 7/18/09, Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
I like the noise.? If you don't, take it to cc-tech -
that's what it's
for.
22 Jul
22 Jul
8:25 a.m.
New subject: large stash of pdp stuff in San Jose Ca
Interesting offer on CraigsList in San Jose!
item1277179251
includes a complete (5 cabinets worth) 111/70 system
8:39 a.m.
New subject: large stash of pdp stuff in San Jose Ca
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:25 AM, steve shumaker<shumaker at att.net> wrote:
Interesting offer on CraigsList in San Jose!
item1277179251
includes a complete (5 cabinets worth) 111/70 system
Wonder if I can convince the boss to get it for the office... we were
looking for a teletype but this would be at least as good, with the
/70 we could run 7th ed.
John
--
"I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba
17 Jul
17 Jul
3:19 p.m.
From: Chuck Guzis
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:20 PM
I'm still waiting for someone's newborn
daughter to be called "Elly
Dee" (or "Elsie Dee").
Ellie Dee is one of Cherry Poptart's two best friends, an electronics
and computer systems genius, in the _Cherry_ (originally _Cherry Poptart_
till Pillsbury objected) comics.
Ellis Dee is a secret agent in the _Man from T.O.M.C.A.T._ series of
spoof spy novels from the late 1960s.
2:02 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find
Here's another: "DEC" is
"deck" but never "Dee Ee Cee," while "NEC"
DEC (at least the bit I had to deal with) got annoyed if you called them
anything other than 'Digital'.
is never "neck," but "En Ee Cee."
I have been known to call a 5150 an 'Ibum Puck' (all vowels short), but
only to people who I know will understand :-).
Which reminds me of the time I was talking to a friend and said 'I've
just been reparing my 8/e'. He said 'Is that alpha tango or eight echo?'
-tony
4:04 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find
On 17 Jul 2009 at 18:10, Alexandre Souza wrote:
No one ever says "En Ee Cee" unless it's someone who's completely
unfamiliar with the term. What people do say is "any see".
Doubtless this is one of the reasons that automated transcription of
speech is such a difficult task. "PC" isn't "Pee Cee", but rather
"peacey".
--Chuck
> is never
"neck," but "En Ee Cee."
In Brazil is ALWAYS "NEC" as in "neck"
16 Jul
16 Jul
12:12 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Tony Duell<ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
F-sick is occasionally heard here.
fsck
(pronounced fisk) is fun too... it almost sounds like a word..
"That fsck'ing volume got corrupted again."
Fuss-Chuck here :-) The one that really annoys me is to areviate
'motherboard' as 'MoBo' and
pronounce it 'Mow-Bow'.
'puter ("pewter"), or worse yet, "pooter" (the redneck
pronunciation)
as a diminutive/dismissive term for "*COM*puter". Bleah!
-ethan
12:21 p.m.
On Jul 16, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
"Distro". [head explodes]
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
The one that
really annoys me is to areviate 'motherboard' as
'MoBo' and
pronounce it 'Mow-Bow'.
'puter ("pewter"), or worse yet, "pooter" (the redneck
pronunciation)
as a diminutive/dismissive term for "*COM*puter". Bleah!
1:10 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Dave McGuire<mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On Jul 16, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
"Distro" originates, but it at least follows a well established
dialectical pattern.
-ethan
'puter ("pewter"), or worse yet,
"pooter" (the redneck pronunciation)
as a diminutive/dismissive term for "*COM*puter". ?Bleah!
?"Distro". ? [head explodes]
1:15 p.m.
On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
"Distro" originates, but it at least follows a well established
dialectical pattern.
Yes. One that annoys the living crap out of me. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
'puter ("pewter"), or worse yet,
"pooter" (the redneck
pronunciation)
as a diminutive/dismissive term for "*COM*puter". Bleah!
"Distro". [head explodes]
1:30 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Dave McGuire<mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). ?I have no idea if that's where
"Distro" originates, but it at least follows a well established
dialectical pattern.
?Yes. ?One that annoys the living crap out of me. ;)
? ? ? ? ?-Dave
You don't like this convention? Righto.
John
--
"I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba
'puter ("pewter"), or worse yet, "pooter" (the redneck
pronunciation)
as a diminutive/dismissive term for "*COM*puter". ?Bleah!
?"Distro". ? [head explodes]
1:35 p.m.
On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:30 PM, John Floren wrote:
Yes. One that annoys the living crap out of me. ;)
You don't like this convention? Righto.
[head explodes again] ;)
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
> 'puter
("pewter"), or worse yet, "pooter" (the redneck
> pronunciation)
> as a diminutive/dismissive term for "*COM*puter". Bleah!
"Distro". [head explodes]
That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
"Distro" originates, but it at least follows a well established
dialectical pattern.
1:48 p.m.
>
"Distro". [head explodes]
That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
"Distro" originates, but it at least follows a well established
dialectical pattern.
Yes. One that annoys the living crap out of me. ;)
1:54 p.m.
On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
[head explodes again] ;)
Problems with your ammo?
[dave makes clicking sound]
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
>>
"Distro". [head explodes]
>
> That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
> ("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko"
for smoke
> break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
> "Distro" originates, but it at least follows a well established
> dialectical pattern.
Yes. One that annoys the living crap out of me. ;)
You don't like this convention? Righto.
10:25 a.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Jules
Richardson<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote:
Faulty HDA?
Head-Desk Assembly? ;-)
-ethan
>>
You don't like this convention? Righto.
> ? [head explodes again] ;)
?[dave makes clicking sound] 
17 Jul
17 Jul
6:47 a.m.
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:30 PM, John Floren wrote:
You don't like this convention? Righto.
[head explodes again] ;)
Oh no-o!
*runs*
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>> 'puter ("pewter"), or worse yet,
"pooter" (the redneck pronunciation)
>> as a diminutive/dismissive term for "*COM*puter". Bleah!
>
> "Distro". [head explodes]
That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
"Distro" originates, but it at least follows a well established
dialectical pattern.
Yes. One that annoys the living crap out of me. ;)
16 Jul
16 Jul
1:53 p.m.
oh ya... and why are they "VAXen"? Are there "PDP 11/44en" too?
I've
got a couple Rainbowen here...
At SGI, we had lots of Originen and I did the architecture for the
Altix ICEen.
A lot of us are Swedes but I don't think can be blamed for this...
Jag har tv? bilen men har ingen VAXen.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
11:12 p.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Chris Elmquist<chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
oh ya... and why are they "VAXen"?
Ox/Oxen -> VAX/VAXen is the straight answer (there are a few joke
answers from back in the day like "why isn't it box/boxen?")
http://dictionary.babylon.com/VAXen
?Are there "PDP 11/44en" too? I've
got a couple Rainbowen here...
Not in English you don't. At issue is the plural of English words
ending in 'x' (which I'm sure goes back to Anglo-Saxon or something.
The rule from Latin would be something like the plurals ending in 'es'
since that's typical of third declension nouns).
http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/durrus/153/gramch13.html#3i
-ethan
17 Jul
17 Jul
8:42 a.m.
On Friday (07/17/2009 at 02:12AM -0400), Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Chris
Elmquist<chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
OK. Thanks. You win this one with logic :-)
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
oh ya... and why are they "VAXen"?
Ox/Oxen -> VAX/VAXen is the straight answer (there are a few joke
answers from back in the day like "why isn't it box/boxen?")
http://dictionary.babylon.com/VAXen 
10:59 a.m.
Ox/Oxen -> VAX/VAXen is the straight answer (there
are a few joke
answers from back in the day like "why isn't it box/boxen?")
http://dictionary.babylon.com/VAXen
I always thought it was a play on vixen, not to uncommon to have naughty
words in a male dominated field ("NESticle, strip, fsck)
/p
3:12 p.m.
New subject: VAXen [was RE: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards...]
From: Chris Elmquist
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:53 PM
oh ya... and why are they "VAXen"? Are
there "PDP 11/44en" too? I've
got a couple Rainbowen here...
From the Jargon File, INFO:JARGON.TXT on any
well-stocked TOPS-20 system:
VAXEN [from "oxen", perhaps influenced by "vixen"] n. pl. The
plural
of VAX (a DEC machine).
The Jargon File describes itself thusly:
Notes on updating this file:
This glossary file is being maintained at two main locations. It is
AIWORD.RF[UP,DOC] at SAIL, and GLS;JARGON > at MIT. If you make any
changes, be sure to FTP the new file to the other location. (NOTE:
Use ASCII mode in FTP to avoid screwing up the tilde char!) Also,
please let us know (see list of names in later paragraph) about your
changes so that we can double-check them.
Try to conform to the format already being used--70 character lines,
3-character indentations, pronunciations in parentheses, etymologies
in brackets, single-space after def'n numbers and word classes, etc.
Stick to the standard ASCII character set.
If you'd rather not mung the file yourself, send your definitions to
DON @ SAIL, GLS @ MIT-AI, and/or MRC @ SAIL.
The last edit (of this line, anyway) was by Don Woods on 81-07-22.
======================================================================
Compiled by Guy L. Steele Jr., Raphael Finkel, Donald
Woods, and Mark Crispin, with assistance from the MIT
and Stanford AI communities and Worcester Polytechnic
Institute. Some contributions were submitted via the
ARPAnet from miscellaneous sites.
This turned into _The Hacker's Dictionary_ a couple of years later, then
was ruined by a wannabe as _The New Hacker's Dictionary_.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
(206) 342-2239
(206) 465-2916 cell
http://www.pdpplanet.org/
16 Jul
16 Jul
8:57 p.m.
That one I can at least understand because of Ozzie
"-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
Medico is doctor in Portuguese :)
"Distro" originates, but it at least follows
a well established
dialectical pattern.
The-times-are-a-changing... :o)
9:30 p.m.
That one I can
at least understand because of Ozzie "-o" slang
("Medico" for doctor, "Doco" for Documentation, "Smoko" for
smoke
break, among numerous examples). I have no idea if that's where
Medico is doctor in Portuguese :)
16 Jul
16 Jul
1:44 p.m.
On 16 Jul 2009 at 19:27, Tony Duell wrote:
I've never heard it pronounced as anything but "et cetera". The
other variants must be regional.
On the other hand, I say "viz." as "namely", having gotten too many
groans from saying "videlicet". I refuse to say "vizz".
"Etc."
might well be said "and so on" or "and so forth", in much the same
way that "i.e." is said "that is" or "e.g." is said
"for example".
Clarity counts for a lot.
--Chuck
It's
always "Et-Cee" short for et-cetera. (let the flames begin.)
I've always pronouced it 'in full' as 'et cetera'.
15 Jul
15 Jul
5:06 p.m.
On Wed, 15 Jul 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote:
Jules Richardson wrote:
Saying "SQL" == "squeal" makes me think of engine trouble, to wit, a
belt
and a pulley about to destroy themselves.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
I don't mind it for most TLAs - but something
about the SQL really
annoys. Maybe it was just that it always seemed to be pronounced as
individual letters for years, and everyone was happy with it that way,
then 'sequel' started appearing sometime in the 90s; I don't like
change for no good reason :-)
I knew a guy that tried to get everyone to call it "squeal", (though he
mostly reserved it for SQL Server) -- sadly he didn't succeed. Kinda
like they tried to get scsi to be pronounced sexy instead of scuzzy, but
in reverse. :)
10:17 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
I hear that one pronounced as letters "EssCueEll" and as a word
"sequel", but I've never seen anyone try to write it any way other
than SQL. Are you saying you've seen it written that way?
No, just pronounced that way.
When IBM first developed the language, it was called SEQUEL. It was
renamed to SQL later, because of a trademark issue. The pronunciation
"sequel" is older than the abbreviation "SQL".
Peace... Sridhar
Lots of
acronymitis back then. Still a lot now, but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a
word, like they insist on
doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh).
17 Jul
17 Jul
9:52 a.m.
New subject: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find ....)
2009/7/16 Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com>:
When IBM first developed the language, it was called
SEQUEL. ?It was renamed
to SQL later, because of a trademark issue. ?The pronunciation "sequel" is
older than the abbreviation "SQL".
/Thank/ you, Sridhar.
Jules, David: I'm afraid it really doesn't matter if you like it or
not. The pronunciation "sequel" is correct, because SEQUEL, IBM's
Structured English QUEry Language, was called that, and the one that
now bears the initialism S. Q. L. was derived from this.
http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/chamberlin/sequel-1974.pdf
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
9:59 a.m.
Liam Proven wrote:
2009/7/16 Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at
gmail.com>:
Yes, as Sridhar pointed out... it would be interesting to know how many of the
current crop of folk who call it sequel are doing so in reference to the
original IBM version. I suspect the answer is rather close to zero ;-)
"Correct" pronunciation might be a matter for debate, given that IBM renamed
their product; were the lots of people *after* the renaming still going around
calling it sequel? Certainly it was SQL by the time I first encountered
databases, and I only started hearing 'sequel' in the latter half of the 90s
(around the rise of the MS product, I suspect, BICBW)
Either way it's interesting how these pronunciations go in phases - perhaps
everyone will be calling it sequel in ten years' time, and anyone spelling it
out as S.Q.L will be beaten over the head with a large stick.
cheers
Jules
When IBM first developed the language, it was
called SEQUEL. It was renamed
to SQL later, because of a trademark issue. The pronunciation "sequel" is
older than the abbreviation "SQL".
/Thank/ you, Sridhar.
Jules, David: I'm afraid it really doesn't matter if you like it or
not. The pronunciation "sequel" is correct, because SEQUEL, IBM's
Structured English QUEry Language, was called that, and the one that
now bears the initialism S. Q. L. was derived from this.
10:17 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:00 AM
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay
find ....)
Liam Proven wrote:
Yes, as Sridhar pointed out... it would be interesting to know how many
of the
current crop of folk who call it sequel are doing so in reference to
the
original IBM version. I suspect the answer is rather close to zero ;-)
"Correct" pronunciation might be a matter for debate, given that IBM
renamed
their product; were the lots of people *after* the renaming still going
around
calling it sequel? Certainly it was SQL by the time I first encountered
databases, and I only started hearing 'sequel' in the latter half of
the 90s
(around the rise of the MS product, I suspect, BICBW)
Either way it's interesting how these pronunciations go in phases -
perhaps
everyone will be calling it sequel in ten years' time, and anyone
spelling it
out as S.Q.L will be beaten over the head with a large stick.
cheers
Jules
I once met a pleasant young woman who was learning database programming. She pronounced
it 'squeal'. As I recall, I managed not to choke on my beer, and just smiled.
Hey, she was cute.... -- Ian
2009/7/16 Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at
gmail.com>:
> When IBM first developed the language, it was called SEQUEL. It was
renamed
> to SQL later, because of a trademark issue.
The pronunciation
"sequel" is
older
than the abbreviation "SQL".
/Thank/ you, Sridhar.
Jules, David: I'm afraid it really doesn't matter if you like it or
not. The pronunciation "sequel" is correct, because SEQUEL, IBM's
Structured English QUEry Language, was called that, and the one that
now bears the initialism S. Q. L. was derived from this.
15 Jul
15 Jul
10:14 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Are you aware that the acronym "sequel" pre-dates the abbreviation
"SQL"
by a significant amount of time?
Peace... Sridhar
Lots of acronymitis back then. Still a lot now,
but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they insist on
doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). We could have ended up
with "puccumsia" :-)
16 Jul
16 Jul
7:51 a.m.
Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Jules Richardson wrote:
Interesting - and no! So did it also originally stand for something (semantic
query language, maybe? :) or was it just a name picked out of a hat, or was
there some other reason it was given that name?
cheers
J.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Are you aware that the acronym "sequel" pre-dates the abbreviation
"SQL"
by a significant amount of time? Lots of acronymitis back then. Still a lot now,
but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they insist
on doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). We could have ended
up with "puccumsia" :-)
8:57 a.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Structured English QUEry Language.
Peace... Sridhar
Jules Richardson wrote:
Interesting - and no! So did it also originally stand for something
(semantic query language, maybe? :) or was it just a name picked out of
a hat, or was there some other reason it was given that name? Ethan Dicks wrote:
Are you aware that the acronym "sequel" pre-dates the abbreviation
"SQL" by a significant amount of time? Lots of acronymitis back then. Still a lot now,
but users have had
more time to absorb some of it.
At least folk don't try to turn it back into a word, like they insist
on doing with some acronyms (e.g. "sequel", ugh). We could have ended
up with "puccumsia" :-)
15 Jul
15 Jul
12:45 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr Ian Primus" <ian_primus at yahoo.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find
....)
Heh.
I understood (perhaps incorrectly) that PCMCIA cards were always 16-bit
cards, and PC Cards could be either 16 or 32 (but were almost always 32).
In other words, PCMCIA cards were PC Cards, but PC Cards weren't always
PCMCIA cards.
Jim
The correct
name for what you are
[incorrectly] calling a "PCMCIA Card" is a
"PC Card".
And here I always thought that PCMCIA stood for "People Can't Memorize
Computer Industry Acronyms"...
1:27 p.m.
I understood (perhaps incorrectly) that PCMCIA cards
were always 16-bit
cards, and PC Cards could be either 16 or 32 (but were almost always 32).
In other words, PCMCIA cards were PC Cards, but PC Cards weren't always
PCMCIA cards.
I think you're thinking of CardBus (almost always 32-bit).
I've heard PC Cards and PCMCIA cards used interchangeably, and much I'm sure
to the chagrin of the OP, the latter term is the one I use and hear most
frequently.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- If your happiness depends on anyone else, you've got a problem. -- R. Bach -
1:47 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre at floodgap.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Do not call them PCMCIA Cards (was "An interesting eBay find
....)
I think you're thinking of CardBus (almost always
32-bit).
Right you are.
PCMCIA is 16-bit, CardBus is 32-bit.
Which means that almost no modern cards of this form factor are PCMCIA
anymore.
Jim
5632
days inactive
5639
days old
79 comments
30 participants
participants (30)
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alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bdwheele＠indiana.edu -
brianlanning＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
christian_liendo＠yahoo.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
doc＠vaxen.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jim＠photojim.ca -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mbbrutman-cctalk＠brutman.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
pontus＠update.uu.se -
ray＠arachelian.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
shumaker＠att.net -
silent700＠gmail.com -
slawmaster＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com