28 Dec
2007
28 Dec
'07
7:05 a.m.
The seasonal holidays give me time to play around a bit ...
I wanted to connect my DECprinter I (that's an LA180) but
I could not find any documentation here at home, neither
on the web! Can somebody who knows or has an LA180
connected tell me how it is hooked to a serial line?
Or point me to an LA180 user's manual on the web?
From my guess, the BERG header is "standard"
as on M7800
DL11's or M7856 DL11-W, SLU's (with the appropriate lugs
either RS-232 or 20 mA current loop), but I would rather be
assured than destroying a very nice printer!
thanks,
Henk
28 Dec
28 Dec
7:44 a.m.
On Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 04:05:37PM +0100, Henk Gooijen wrote:
Just because DEC used the 40-pin BERG on PDP-8 and PDP-11
console interfaces does not make the same connector in the
LA-180 a serial interface. The same connector is used on
the RL11, RLV11, RLV12, and the RL8A, and is certainly
does _not_ carry EIA or 20mA signals on it. It's just
a very, very common connector in the DEC world after, say,
1970.
The LA-180 can be attached directly to an LP-11, an LPV-11,
an LP8E, or a DKC8AA (PDP-8/a multi-I/O board, which inverts
some signals and does not have the same IOTs as an LP8E, so
uses a different OS/8 driver).
I recall a simple circuit with one or two handshake signals
inverted to hook a LA-180 to a Centronics-type printer
interface, but you'd probably want to find the LA-180
manual for that.
I did get a manual with mine, 20 years ago, the size of a
small-town phone book. If it's been scanned, it's going to
be a large file.
It's a great printer. I hope someone can help you find a
manual for it. You'll certainly want to be on the lookout
for either an LP-11 (quad height) or an LPV-11, depending
on what kind of PDP-11 or VAX you have. IIRC, you _can_
stuff an LP interface into a VAX and the VMS LPDRIVER
will work (giving you LPA0:)
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Dec-2007 at 15:30 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -11.9 F (-24.4 C) Windchill -33.5 F (-36.4 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 11.6 kts Grid 27 Barometer 684.4 mb (10463 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
The seasonal holidays give me time to play around a bit ...
I wanted to connect my DECprinter I (that's an LA180) but
I could not find any documentation here at home, neither
on the web!
If you can't find the LA-180 manual, perhaps one of the
interface manuals is on bitsavers?
Can somebody who knows or has an LA180
connected tell me how it is hooked to a serial line?
Or point me to an LA180 user's manual on the web?
It's not hooked to a serial line. It's an 8-bit parallel
printer with handshaking.
From my guess,
the BERG header is "standard" as on M7800
DL11's or M7856 DL11-W,
SLU's (with the appropriate lugs
either RS-232 or 20 mA current loop), but I would rather be
assured than destroying a very nice printer!
9:59 a.m.
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:44:33 +0000> From:
ethan.dicks at usap.gov> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: how to connect a
DECprinter I (LA180) ?> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 04:05:37PM +0100, Henk Gooijen
wrote:> > > > The seasonal holidays give me time to play around a bit ...>
> I wanted to connect my DECprinter I (that's an LA180) but> > I could not
find any documentation here at home, neither> > on the web!> > If you
can't find the LA-180 manual, perhaps one of the> interface manuals is on
bitsavers?> > > Can somebody who knows or has an LA180> > connected tell me
how it is hooked to a serial line?> > Or point me to an LA180 user's manual on
the web?> > It's not hooked to a serial line. It's an 8-bit parallel>
printer with handshaking.> > > >From my guess, the BERG header is
"standard" as on M7800> > DL11's or M7856 DL11-W, SLU's (with the
appropriate lugs> > either RS-232 or 20 mA current loop), but I would rather be>
> assured than destroying a very nice printer!> > Just because DEC used the
40-pin BERG on PDP-8 and PDP-11> console interfaces does not make the same connector in
the> LA-180 a serial interface. The same connector is used on> the RL11, RLV11,
RLV12, and the RL8A, and is certainly> does _not_ carry EIA or 20mA signals on it.
It's just> a very, very common connector in the DEC world after, say,> 1970.>
> The LA-180 can be attached directly to an LP-11, an LPV-11,> an LP8E, or a DKC8AA
(PDP-8/a multi-I/O board, which inverts> some signals and does not have the same IOTs
as an LP8E, so> uses a different OS/8 driver).> > I recall a simple circuit with
one or two handshake signals> inverted to hook a LA-180 to a Centronics-type
printer> interface, but you'd probably want to find the LA-180> manual for
that.> > I did get a manual with mine, 20 years ago, the size of a> small-town
phone book. If it's been scanned, it's going to> be a large file.> >
It's a great printer. I hope someone can help you find a> manual for it. You'll
certainly want to be on the lookout> for either an LP-11 (quad height) or an LPV-11,
depending> on what kind of PDP-11 or VAX you have. IIRC, you _can_> stuff an LP
interface into a VAX and the VMS LPDRIVER> will work (giving you LPA0:)> >
-ethan> > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Dec-2007 at
15:30 Z> South Pole Station> PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -11.9 F (-24.4 C) Windchill -33.5
F (-36.4 C)> APO AP 96598 Wind 11.6 kts Grid 27 Barometer 684.4 mb (10463 ft)> >
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
Thanks Ethan! That was very informative information!
True, that blue BERG header is very common, but I ASSumed that
the printer had a serial interface, which made me think that it
*could* resemble the DL11 connector.
I did not know that the LP11 interface can be used to connect
the LA180, but that is great news. I know for sure that I have at
least two LP11 UNIBUS modules (M7258) and I will check my cable
storage in the attick. I vaguely remember that I have a cable for
the LP11!
I would like to connect the LA180 to my 11/34C, so that would be
great. I have checked bitsavers, but on "LA180" there is not much.
However, looking for LP11 is more successful, so after this e-mail
I am off to one of the mirror site to grab the LP11 User's Manual
for starters :-) I'll report my findings.
One day, I might put the other LP11 interface in my VAX-11/750...!
thanks again!
Henk.
10:47 a.m.
On Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 06:59:28PM +0100, Henk Gooijen wrote:
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:44:33 +0000> From:
ethan.dicks at usap.gov>
Henk,
Something is wrong with your mail settings - you quoted my message
on a single smashed-up line.
Thanks Ethan! That was very informative information!
You are quite wlecome.
True, that blue BERG header is very common, but I
ASSumed that
the printer had a serial interface, which made me think that it
*could* resemble the DL11 connector.
The LA-120 (DECwriter/printer III) is serial, as is the LA-36, and
a bunch of other LA-xxx printers. I think the LA-180 might be
unique in its naming series to be parallel.
I did not know that the LP11 interface can be used to
connect
the LA180, but that is great news. I know for sure that I have at
least two LP11 UNIBUS modules (M7258)...
Perfect.
and I will check my cable
storage in the attick. I vaguely remember that I have a cable for
the LP11!
If you don't have a round cable, you can use a pin-1-to-pin-1
40-pin flat cable. That's what I did for my LPV-11 in 1986.
It was much cheaper to buy meters of bulk cable and two IDC ends
than to get a "real" cable from a DEC reseller.
One day, I might put the other LP11 interface in my
VAX-11/750...!
I seem to recall doing that myself in the late 1980s, under VMS 4.6,
but we also had a "real" line printer we hung off of a DMF-32 DC-37
parallel-out port (sorta like the DKC8AA trick with a PDP-8/a). I
think we had an LP25 at the end of that cable, or an LP26. Either
way, it was a DEC-badged Dataproducts printer that I wasn't able
to rescue when the company folded in the early 1990s - too large
and way too worn out (I'd been limping it along for over 4 years
at that point).
...but I think we did have the LA-180 on the VAX as a backup for
when the ribbon feeder or the paper tractors would freak out on our
line printer. It probably died 3 or 4 times a year, requiring
parts or extended cleaning/tweaking. We ran box after box of
paper through that thing.
As I said previously, the LA-180 works with PDP-8s, PDP-11s
and VAXen, plus with a single-chip interface (a few inverters),
it's possible to hook that same printer up to a "modern"
machine with a parallel port (Amiga, PC...)
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Dec-2007 at 18:30 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -14.1 F (-25.6 C) Windchill -36.4 F (-38.0 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 11.8 kts Grid 33 Barometer 684.5 mb (10459 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
11:28 a.m.
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:47:10 +0000> From:
ethan.dicks at usap.gov> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: how to connect a
DECprinter I (LA180) ?> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 06:59:28PM +0100, Henk Gooijen
wrote:> > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:44:33 +0000> From: ethan.dicks at
usap.gov>> > Henk,> > Something is wrong with your mail settings - you
quoted my message> on a single smashed-up line.> > > Thanks Ethan! That was
very informative information!> > You are quite wlecome.> > > True, that
blue BERG header is very common, but I ASSumed that> > the printer had a serial
interface, which made me think that it> > *could* resemble the DL11 connector.>
> The LA-120 (DECwriter/printer III) is serial, as is the LA-36, and> a bunch of
other LA-xxx printers. I think the LA-180 might be> unique in its naming series to be
parallel.> > > I did not know that the LP11 interface can be used to connect>
> the LA180, but that is great news. I know for sure that I have at> > least two
LP11 UNIBUS modules (M7258)...> > Perfect.> > > and I will check my
cable> > storage in the attick. I vaguely remember that I have a cable for> >
the LP11!> > If you don't have a round cable, you can use a pin-1-to-pin-1>
40-pin flat cable. That's what I did for my LPV-11 in 1986.> It was much cheaper to
buy meters of bulk cable and two IDC ends> than to get a "real" cable from a
DEC reseller.> > > One day, I might put the other LP11 interface in my
VAX-11/750...!> > I seem to recall doing that myself in the late 1980s, under VMS
4.6,> but we also had a "real" line printer we hung off of a DMF-32 DC-37>
parallel-out port (sorta like the DKC8AA trick with a PDP-8/a). I> think we had an LP25
at the end of that cable, or an LP26. Either> way, it was a DEC-badged Dataproducts
printer that I wasn't able> to rescue when the company folded in the early 1990s -
too large> and way too worn out (I'd been limping it along for over 4 years> at
that point).> > ...but I think we did have the LA-180 on the VAX as a backup for>
when the ribbon feeder or the paper tractors would freak out on our> line printer. It
probably died 3 or 4 times a year, requiring> parts or extended cleaning/tweaking. We
ran box after box of> paper through that thing.> > As I said previously, the
LA-180 works with PDP-8s, PDP-11s> and VAXen, plus with a single-chip interface (a few
inverters),> it's possible to hook that same printer up to a "modern">
machine with a parallel port (Amiga, PC...)> > -ethan> > -- > Ethan Dicks,
A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Dec-2007 at 18:30 Z> South Pole Station>
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -14.1 F (-25.6 C) Windchill -36.4 F (-38.0 C)> APO AP 96598 Wind
11.8 kts Grid 33 Barometer 684.5 mb (10459 ft)> > Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
I am using webmail, but it seems that it uses the Outlook Express settings.
I hope this is not garbbling everyting into one long unreadable line.
I have found the two M7258, and downloaded the LP11 user's manual.
Had to go to the attick twice, because the etch on the M7258 says LS11,
*not* LP11, so I thought I did not remember the M-number correctly :-)
I even found the round cable with headers at both ends *and* text on
it written that says "LA180". Now, that *must* be the right cable!
The combination of the LA180 with an M7258 is called LA11.
I checked the jumpers on the M7258. It is set for LA180 operation, so
after cleaning the cable (very dirty!) I hope to print some lines tomorrow!
Perhaps I will shoot some pictures to "upgrade" my peripherals pages :-)
The second M7258 is jumpered differently, so it was used with one of the
other printers mentioned in the user's manual. I even found a third M7258
with a single height board connected via 2" flat cable directly to the BERG
header on the M7258. The M-number of that single height module is M59??
Sorry, I forgot the last 2 digits. If somebody needs to know, I will go up
the attick for a third time :-)
Thanks for sharing experiences from the past Ethan. I always love to read
those stories.
- Henk.
(keeping fingers crossed that quoted text stays in neat lines...)
12:21 p.m.
Hi, Henk,
On Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 08:28:22PM +0100, Henk Gooijen wrote:
Not your text... just what you quote.
Date: Fri, 28
Dec 2007 18:47:10 +0000> From: ethan.dicks at usap.gov>...
I am using webmail, but it seems that it uses the Outlook Express settings.
I hope this is not garbbling everyting into one long unreadable line. I have found the two M7258, and downloaded the LP11
user's manual.
Nice.
Had to go to the attick twice, because the etch on the
M7258 says LS11,
*not* LP11, so I thought I did not remember the M-number correctly :-)
Ah...sorry... LS11 rings a bell as a printer interface, too.
I even found the round cable with headers at both ends
*and* text on
it written that says "LA180". Now, that *must* be the right cable!
Perfect. It's probably like a falt cable, but only with the
essential wires run.
The combination of the LA180 with an M7258 is called
LA11.
Make sense.
I checked the jumpers on the M7258. It is set for
LA180 operation, so
after cleaning the cable (very dirty!) I hope to print some lines tomorrow!
Once you get it checked out, one nice thing to do with an LA180 is
overstrike ASCII art. There's a really fancy picture of a digitized
cat that I have on an OS/8 floppy somewhere. I'm sure the data file
is out there to be grabbed.
Use a fresh ribbon and give it lots of time to complete. It's
stunning.
Perhaps I will shoot some pictures to
"upgrade" my peripherals pages :-)
When you do, shoot us a URL.
The second M7258 is jumpered differently, so it was
used with one of the
other printers mentioned in the user's manual.
Since you have the manual there, out of curiosity, what other printers
does it support? LP05 and stuff?
I even found a third M7258
with a single height board connected via 2" flat cable directly to the BERG
header on the M7258. The M-number of that single height module is M59??
Sorry, I forgot the last 2 digits. If somebody needs to know, I will go up
the attick for a third time :-)
Hmm... that sounds interesting. I wonder if that's stock, or just
something someone stuck together because it happens to fit. If I'm
picturing it right, the only place for the signals to go are out of the
edge-fingers of the M59xx module, right? That doesn't sound like any
Unibus thing _I_ can think of.
Thanks for sharing experiences from the past Ethan. I
always love to read
those stories.
You're welcome. I was just in the right place at the right time, and
managed to get my hands on a PDP-8 of my own when I was 16, and on a
room full of PDP-11s and VAXen at work by the time I was 18. I also had
lots and lots of hands-on experience at the time (approx 1982-1994),
building and repairing machines (mine and my employer's) by picking up
"cheap" boxes and boards that nobody wanted anymore.
Once the machines were assembled and working, it was all OS installs,
application programming, etc. I had a blast working with the stuff
of that era. Fortunately for me, I still have piles of hardware and
documenation that I didn't have to leave behind.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Dec-2007 at 20:00 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -15.2 F (-26.2 C) Windchill -36.4 F (-38.0 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 10.3 kts Grid 32 Barometer 684.8 mb (10448 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
1:29 p.m.
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:21:03 +0000> From:
ethan.dicks at usap.gov> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: how to connect a
DECprinter I (LA180) ?> > Hi, Henk,> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 08:28:22PM
+0100, Henk Gooijen wrote:> > > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:47:10 +0000> From:
ethan.dicks at usap.gov>...> > > > I am using webmail, but it seems that it
uses the Outlook Express settings.> > I hope this is not garbbling everyting into
one long unreadable line.> > Not your text... just what you quote.> > > I
have found the two M7258, and downloaded the LP11 user's manual.> > Nice.>
> > Had to go to the attick twice, because the etch on the M7258 says LS11,> >
*not* LP11, so I thought I did not remember the M-number correctly :-)> >
Ah...sorry... LS11 rings a bell as a printer interface, too.> > > I even found
the round cable with headers at both ends *and* text on> > it written that says
"LA180". Now, that *must* be the right cable!> > Perfect. It's
probably like a falt cable, but only with the> essential wires run.> > > The
combination of the LA180 with an M7258 is called LA11.> > Make sense.> > >
I checked the jumpers on the M7258. It is set for LA180 operation, so> > after
cleaning the cable (very dirty!) I hope to print some lines tomorrow!> > Once you
get it checked out, one nice thing to do with an LA180 is> overstrike ASCII art.
There's a really fancy picture of a digitized> cat that I have on an OS/8 floppy
somewhere. I'm sure the data file> is out there to be grabbed.> > Use a fresh
ribbon and give it lots of time to complete. It's> stunning.> > > Perhaps
I will shoot some pictures to "upgrade" my peripherals pages :-)> > When
you do, shoot us a URL.> > > The second M7258 is jumpered differently, so it was
used with one of the> > other printers mentioned in the user's manual.> >
Since you have the manual there, out of curiosity, what other printers> does it
support? LP05 and stuff?> > > I even found a third M7258> > with a single
height board connected via 2" flat cable directly to the BERG> > header on the
M7258. The M-number of that single height module is M59??> > Sorry, I forgot the
last 2 digits. If somebody needs to know, I will go up> > the attick for a third
time :-)> > Hmm... that sounds interesting. I wonder if that's stock, or
just> something someone stuck together because it happens to fit. If I'm>
picturing it right, the only place for the signals to go are out of the> edge-fingers
of the M59xx module, right? That doesn't sound like any> Unibus thing _I_ can think
of.> > > Thanks for sharing experiences from the past Ethan. I always love to
read> > those stories.> > You're welcome. I was just in the right place at
the right time, and> managed to get my hands on a PDP-8 of my own when I was 16, and on
a> room full of PDP-11s and VAXen at work by the time I was 18. I also had> lots and
lots of hands-on experience at the time (approx 1982-1994),> building and repairing
machines (mine and my employer's) by picking up> "cheap" boxes and boards
that nobody wanted anymore. > > Once the machines were assembled and working, it was
all OS installs,> application programming, etc. I had a blast working with the
stuff> of that era. Fortunately for me, I still have piles of hardware and>
documenation that I didn't have to leave behind.> > -ethan> > -- >
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Dec-2007 at 20:00 Z> South Pole
Station> PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -15.2 F (-26.2 C) Windchill -36.4 F (-38.0 C)> APO AP
96598 Wind 10.3 kts Grid 32 Barometer 684.8 mb (10448 ft)> > Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html Sorry, I just don't understand why the
quoted text is so messed up.It all looks fine before I click the "Send" button.
This time, I changedthe encoding from UTF-8 to Western Europe (Windows) ... I better not
putmy answers interspersed.If somebody knows how to get this stupid quoting corrected:
help!The manual is called "LP11/LS11/LA11 line printer user's manual",
butthe etch on the M7258 only says "LS11 interface".The round cable is not a
flat cable, but has separate wires. At least,that is how it looks to me. The diameter is
approx 0.5". I will shoot apicture of that cable too. I will "announce" the
LA180 page when it isfinished ... and hunt down that cat :-) If somebody has that text
file,
I would love to print it! You got me up the attick for the third time Ethan
:-)If you hold the M7258 with the fingers at the right side and look at thecomponent side
of the module, the BERG header is at the top left side.The single height module is
directly above the M7258, like this ASCII art:
----------------------------------------------------- | ###############
---- \\ |
| \ \| M5973 | |
component side view | / /|
| // | BERG (to M7258) | |
############### ----
-----------------------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <--- flat cable
-----------------------------------------------------
| ############### ----
| M7258 |
=== ===The module is original
DIGITAL, it is in the etch, M5973. It's in theField Guide: "M5973 LLD11 U TTL
to differential transceiver".There are only 3 fingers connected at the end, for power
supply.The way it is, this M5973 must have been installed in position B ofthe slot, where
the M7258 goes into an SPC (position C-F). The manual indeed is for the major part
concerning the LP01/02/04/05.Wished I could have played with DEC stuff in those days!
Cool having
your own pdp8 at 16!!Henk (wondering how this will appear on the list!)
2 p.m.
[Sent again, to get it readable. What can I do to correct this?]
Sorry, I just don't understand why the quoted text is so messed up.
It all looks fine before I click the "Send" button. This time, I changed
the encoding from UTF-8 to Western Europe (Windows) ... I better not put
my answers interspersed.
If somebody knows how to get this stupid quoting corrected: help!
The manual is called "LP11/LS11/LA11 line printer user's manual", but
the etch on the M7258 only says "LS11 interface".
The round cable is not a flat cable, but has separate wires. At least,
that is how it looks to me. The diameter is approx 0.5". I will shoot a
picture of that cable too. I will "announce" the LA180 page when it is
finished ... and hunt down that cat :-) If somebody has that text file,I would love to
print it!
You got me up the attick for the third time Ethan :-)
If you hold the M7258 with the fingers at the right side and look at the
component side of the module, the BERG header is at the top left side.
The single height module is directly above the M7258, like this ASCII art:
-----------------------------------------------------
| ############### ----
\\ | |
\ \| M5973 |
| component side view |
/ /| |
// | BERG (to M7258) |
| ############### ----
----------------------------------------------------- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <---
flat cable ----------------------------------------------------- | ###############
---- | M7258
|
=== ===
The module is original DIGITAL, it is in the etch, M5973. It's in the
Field Guide: "M5973 LLD11 U TTL to differential transceiver".
There are only 3 fingers connected at the end, for power supply.
The way it is, this M5973 must have been installed in position B of
the slot, where the M7258 goes into an SPC (position C-F).
The manual indeed is for the major part concerning the LP01/02/04/05.
Wished I could have played with DEC stuff in those days! Cool havingyour own pdp8 at 16!!
Henk (wondering how this will appear on the list!)
7:27 p.m.
From: henk.gooijen at hotmail.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 23:00:28 +0100
Subject: RE: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?
[Sent again, to get it readable. What can I do to correct this?]
Sorry, I just don't understand why the quoted text is so messed up.
It all looks fine before I click the "Send" button. This time, I changed
the encoding from UTF-8 to Western Europe (Windows) ... I better not put
my answers interspersed.
If somebody knows how to get this stupid quoting corrected: help!
Hi
In hotmail, I select plain text. It still isn't perfect. It seems
to delete indents for paragraphs.
It is an obvious bug in the current hotmail but I suspect the
people at MS could care less.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007
29 Dec
29 Dec
7:33 a.m.
New subject: Mail formatting [was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?]
[Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov>]
Ethan, I suspect a problem on your side. Hank's list message, as it
arrived in my mailbox, looked perfectly reasonable - Hank's text you
quoted was properly line-broken as far as I could tell:
Sorry, I just
don't understand why the quoted text is so messed up.
It all looks fine before I click the "Send" button. This time, I
changed the encoding from UTF-8 to Western Europe (Windows) ...
This was worse -
everything, all the quoted text, all the new text,
was on one line. From: Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at
hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Sorry, I just don't understand why the quoted text
is so messed up.
It all looks fine before I click the "Send" button. This time, I changed
the encoding from UTF-8 to Western Europe (Windows) ... [...]
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
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8 a.m.
New subject: Mail formatting [was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?]
On Sat, Dec 29, 2007 at 10:33:56AM -0500, der Mouse wrote:
Ethan, I suspect a problem on your side.
It could be, but I'm using a pretty vanilla system - Mutt as a textual
IMAP client, pulling through someone else's Exchange server. Henk's
quoted text was mashed together both on the Exchange server (checked
with a web client) and with my textual client.
For the record, I've never seen anyone else's messages, on the cctalk
list or anywhere, mashed up like that. Just Henk's. And it got worse
when he fiddled with his settings.
Hank's list message, as it
arrived in my mailbox, looked perfectly reasonable - Hank's text you
quoted was properly line-broken as far as I could tell:
I manually reformatted Henk's text before posting. It took a while.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 29-Dec-2007 at 15:50 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -19.7 F (-28.7 C) Windchill -36.5 F (-38.0 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 5.9 kts Grid 105 Barometer 686.0 mb (10403 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
11:08 a.m.
New subject: Mail formatting [was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?]
Hank's
list message, as it arrived in my mailbox, looked perfectly
reasonable - Hank's text you quoted was properly line-broken as far
as I could tell:
I manually reformatted Henk's text before posting.
11:27 a.m.
New subject: Mail formatting [was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?]
From: ethan.dicks at usap.gov
---sip---
For the record, I've never seen anyone else's messages, on the cctalk
list or anywhere, mashed up like that. Just Henk's. And it got worse
when he fiddled with his settings.
Hi Ethan
I'm using what used to be hotmail, now says Windows Live.
If I send replies with text from other users in rich text, it comes
out missing all of the returns, just as Henk's does.
I've been sending in plain text but that is not without issues either.
It seems to drop any leading blank spaces so indicating paragraphs
can only been done with blank lines.
This is just more windows crap. I'm sure it would work fine
if we were all using windows for all mail.
The older Hotmail worked just fine. I noticed the problem when they upgraded
me to windows live.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
Hank's list message, as it
arrived in my mailbox, looked perfectly reasonable - Hank's text you
quoted was properly line-broken as far as I could tell:
11:09 p.m.
New subject: Mail formatting [was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?]
From: cisin at xenosoft.com
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007, dwight elvey wrote:
Hi
Just to add fun to things. My Olivetti M20 uses 0Eh as
LF CR. I noticed this when I was editing files on my
PC and transfering them to the M20. I needed to
pass them through a filter each time I move one way
or the other.
Painful but I just included it in my transfer program.
It did use a ^Z for end of text.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
i?m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect
This is just more windows crap. I'm sure it
would work fine
if we were all using windows for all mail.
. . . but where's the fun in THAT?
12:53 p.m.
New subject: Mail formatting [was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?]
On 29/12/2007 15:33, der Mouse wrote:
[Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov>]
>> Sorry, I just don't understand why the quoted text is so messed up.
Ethan, I suspect a problem on your side. Hank's
list message, as it
arrived in my mailbox, looked perfectly reasonable - Hank's text you
quoted was properly line-broken as far as I could tell:
Nope, I agree with Ethan. Looking at the raw email, the quoted part is
totally devoid of line breaks (indeed, of any control characters) of any
kind. Thunderbird displays it suitably reformatted to fit the window
it's using, but only by using its own soft breaks.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
28 Dec
28 Dec
2:10 p.m.
Hi, Henk,
Formatting problems aside, please trim your replies.
On Fri, Dec 28, 2007 at 10:29:24PM +0100, Henk Gooijen wrote:
Sorry, I just don't understand why the quoted
text is so messed up.
It all looks fine before I click the "Send" button. This time, I changed
the encoding from UTF-8 to Western Europe (Windows) ...
This was worse - everything, all the quoted text, all the new text,
was on one line.
I better not putmy answers interspersed.If somebody
knows how to get
this stupid quoting corrected: help!
Sorry... don't know what's up... I don't do e-mail on Windows nor
use Windows browsers.
The manual is called "LP11/LS11/LA11 line printer
user's manual",
but the etch on the M7258 only says "LS11 interface".
That's not really surprising.
The round cable is not a flat cable, but has separate
wires.
At least,that is how it looks to me.
Right. Got that. When I said "like the flat cable", I meant
more of "pin-1-to-pin-1" for all necessary pins. There's
probably only 24 to 30 wires in that cable, _if_ they are
using a ground for every signal (more likely back in those
days than now). I didn't mean to suggest it was like a
ribbon cable rolled into a tube.
I will "announce" the LA180 page when it is
finished ...
Cool.
and hunt down that cat :-) If somebody has that text
file,
I would love to print it!
I have a dim memory that someone who is now, or was once, a
member of this list had some ASCII art on a PDP-8 page.
It might also be on some RX01 images of PDP-8 software out
there.
If nothing else, googling for "ASCII art" will probably
reveal a huge repository of pictures of Mr. Spock and
Snoopy. I can't think of a computer room prior to 1985
that didn't have one or more items hanging on the walls.
Some of it was quite simplistic (just asterisks), but ones
like the cat were amazing.
You got me up the attick for the third time Ethan :-)
If you hold the M7258 with the fingers at the right side...
The picture was totally trashed, sorry.
The module is original DIGITAL, it is in the etch,
M5973. It's in the
Field Guide: "M5973 LLD11 U TTL to differential transceiver".
There are only 3 fingers connected at the end, for power supply.
The way it is, this M5973 must have been installed in position B of
the slot, where the M7258 goes into an SPC (position C-F).
Very odd. Sounds like it might need a custom backplane, not a
DD11-DK or DD11-CK. I don't recognize the LLD11, but it sounds
like someone may have been trying to run a printer very far
away from the CPU. I don't know the max cable length (it should
be in the manual), but I'm willing to guess that it's under
100', probably under 50'.
The manual indeed is for the major part concerning the
LP01/02/04/05.
Make sense. Those were more common in the era of low-density
quad-height cards like the LS-11. I fixed an LP05 once, at a
different job, in 1988, but it was an ancient beast then.
Wished I could have played with DEC stuff in those
days! Cool having
your own pdp8 at 16!!
It was one of those random flukes that affected the rest of
my life (in a good way). I literally stumbled across it
as they were herding the folks out of the Dayton Hamvention.
It looked really cool, and I recognized the vendor (Digital)
from a computer store we used to have in Downtown
Columbus.
I knew *zip* about DEC equipment then. Took me 2 years to
get that first -8 working (I had no docs), but it was a
great learning experience. Two years after I got it, someone
gave me a PDP-8/a and offered me that job working with
PDP-11s and VAXen and embedded 68000 processors. Literally
a life-changing event.
Henk (wondering how this will appear on the list!)
Poorly.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 28-Dec-2007 at 21:40 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -16.1 F (-26.7 C) Windchill -37.7 F (-38.7 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 41 Barometer 685.2 mb (10433 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
5:52 p.m.
New subject: ASCII Art (was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?)
Last time I searched for "ASCII Art" on the net I found a couple of pictures of
naked women amongst those of Spock and Kirk. I didn't see any of Snoopy though :(
I rarely see ASCII art these days. There was a retro ASCII Art newsletter that was
published every few months which had some ASCII art in it, but sadly the people behind it
have decided to stop making it. Only 5 issues exist, and at present I only have issue 5.
Happy Holidays,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at usap.gov> wrote:
I have a dim memory that someone who is now, or was once, a
member of this list had some ASCII art on a PDP-8 page.
It might also be on some RX01 images of PDP-8 software out
there.
If nothing else, googling for "ASCII art" will probably
reveal a huge repository of pictures of Mr. Spock and
Snoopy. I can't think of a computer room prior to 1985
that didn't have one or more items hanging on the walls.
Some of it was quite simplistic (just asterisks), but ones
like the cat were amazing.
29 Dec
29 Dec
12:28 p.m.
New subject: ASCII Art (was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?)
At 07:52 PM 12/28/2007, Andrew Burton wrote:
Last time I searched for "ASCII Art" on the
net I found a couple of pictures of naked women amongst those of Spock and Kirk. I
didn't see any of Snoopy though :(
I rarely see ASCII art these days. There was a retro ASCII Art newsletter that was
published every few months which had some ASCII art in it, but sadly the people behind it
have decided to stop making it. Only 5 issues exist, and at present I only have issue 5.
There's a collection of links and picture files at:
http://207-207-72-42.ip.theriver.com/gallery/index.html
My site is the "museum", second one down.
As you can see, the radio teletype crowd was doing this long before
there were "computers", long before I was born.
At another end of the spectrum are ASCII / ANSI artists who flourished
during the BBS scene in the 80s.
- John
2:39 p.m.
New subject: ASCII Art (was Re: how to connect a DECprinter I (LA180) ?)
John Foust wrote:
As you can see, the radio teletype crowd was doing
this long before
there were "computers", long before I was born.
Indeed, and we lost one of the pioneers a year or so ago. Here is the
raw unedited footage taken of him for the BBS Documentary:
http://www.archive.org/details/20030322-bbs-sheetz
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
28 Dec
28 Dec
7:32 p.m.
On Dec 28, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Henk Gooijen wrote:
The seasonal holidays give me time to play around a
bit ...
I wanted to connect my DECprinter I (that's an LA180) but
I could not find any documentation here at home, neither
on the web! Can somebody who knows or has an LA180
connected tell me how it is hooked to a serial line?
Or point me to an LA180 user's manual on the web?
I had to smile when I read this. I had an LA180 printer on my first
PDP-11 when I was a teen, back in the mid-1980s. Like so many things
From my guess, the BERG header is
"standard" as on M7800
DL11's or M7856 DL11-W, SLU's (with the
appropriate lugs
either RS-232 or 20 mA current loop), but I would rather be
assured than destroying a very nice printer! from back then, I deeply regret selling it years ago.
And, again like
so many past things, I hope to find another someday.
The LA180 is not a serial device...it is parallel, not terribly
different from a "Centronics" parallel interface. I used an LS11 board
to interface between it and my PDP-11/34a, but I think it can work with
the LP11 also.
I think I have a paper manual for that printer; I will look.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
8:19 p.m.
At 10:05 AM 12/28/2007, Henk Gooijen wrote:
The seasonal holidays give me time to play around a bit ...
I wanted to connect my DECprinter I (that's an LA180) but
I could not find any documentation here at home, neither
on the web! Can somebody who knows or has an LA180
connected tell me how it is hooked to a serial line?
Or point me to an LA180 user's manual on the web?
You've gotten some replies already that were mostly correct - the
*base* LA180 is a parallel printer.
If you look at the fold-down door that has the logic card, it has four
threaded posts that are designed to mount the LAXX-NW or LAXX-NX serial
converter cards. (The -NW is EIA RS232, the -NX is current loop). If
you've got two cards mounted on the back door, you have a serial printer.
The LA180 is a workhorse. I ran hundreds of boxes of paper through one
that had been dropped off a truck - the plastic cover was badly cracked
but it ran forever that way.
I've got the LA180 maintenance manual. Prints, mechanical drawings, and
logic description. If anyone can get it onto one of the archives,
they're welcome to it.
-Rick
From my guess, the BERG header is
"standard" as on M7800
DL11's or M7856 DL11-W, SLU's (with the
appropriate lugs
either RS-232 or 20 mA current loop), but I would rather be
assured than destroying a very nice printer!
thanks,
Henk 
9:16 p.m.
The serial interface was not widely used. The LP11 and LPV11 was used for
mostly Data Products printers (LP01, 02, etc). The LS11 and LAV11 worked
with the LA180 and in the case of the LS11, others. I think all used the
same cable to the LA180, including the PDP8 interface. If you need the part
#, I'll try to find it over the weekend.
Paul
On Dec 28, 2007 10:19 PM, Rick Murphy <rick at rickmurphy.net> wrote:
At 10:05 AM 12/28/2007, Henk Gooijen wrote:
The seasonal holidays give me time to play around a bit ...
I wanted to connect my DECprinter I (that's an LA180) but
I could not find any documentation here at home, neither
on the web! Can somebody who knows or has an LA180
connected tell me how it is hooked to a serial line?
Or point me to an LA180 user's manual on the web?
You've gotten some replies already that were mostly correct - the
*base* LA180 is a parallel printer.
If you look at the fold-down door that has the logic card, it has four
threaded posts that are designed to mount the LAXX-NW or LAXX-NX serial
converter cards. (The -NW is EIA RS232, the -NX is current loop). If
you've got two cards mounted on the back door, you have a serial printer.
The LA180 is a workhorse. I ran hundreds of boxes of paper through one
that had been dropped off a truck - the plastic cover was badly cracked
but it ran forever that way.
I've got the LA180 maintenance manual. Prints, mechanical drawings, and
logic description. If anyone can get it onto one of the archives,
they're welcome to it.
-Rick
From my guess, the BERG header is
"standard" as on M7800
DL11's or M7856 DL11-W, SLU's (with the
appropriate lugs
either RS-232 or 20 mA current loop), but I would rather be
assured than destroying a very nice printer!
thanks,
Henk
5978
days inactive
5980
days old
22 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠usap.gov -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
rick＠rickmurphy.net -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
useddec＠gmail.com