Logic plays no role... this was nothing more than a question I posed (almost a week ago non the less). Therefore in looking for answers, I can allow or disallow anything I please for any reason I please. That doesn't make it valid or invalid for anyone other than me. If others want to tag onto my 2 questions, then they can use whatever criterea they desire to see if something is a valid answer for them. The big strike Voyager has against it in my book is that no one can tell if it is still running. Its not valid to me, because it might be mythical (not the craft, but rather the fact that it is still functioning). The ground computers on the other hand are valid, because they can be verified and someone each budgeting cycle has to make the decision if they want to continue to spend money having them operate. So they are still doing their original job... listening for data from Voyager. Of course, its all pretty irrelivant as I'm sure the original ground computers for Voyager have long since been shut off and removed. NASA may still be listening, but if they are, I'm sure the task has been lumped in with other newer monitoring systems. If it is running ONLY because no one knows its running AND no one knows it exists... then its a mute point. If a tree falls in the woods... Although, I would still, for my original question, consider it not valid. Because it isn't in normal use. The simple fact that no one knows about it removes it from use (no one dials in to the BBS anymore, and the sysop forgot it is there so isn't leaving it up just in case someone stumbles on it). If on the other hand, a sysop knows about it and IS leaving it running just to see if someone hits it, then I might consider it valid. At least it is still serving a function. But I would have to hunt for a better answer, something that is a bit more in use. (I would also probably hunt for a better answer than Voyager ground monitoring computers for the same reason, they may be valid, but they are a poor example). No, because my ORIGINAL question was, what is the oldest computer still in normal use. So for MY question, that is, the answer I am looking for.... I will only consider a computer that was put into service when it was reasonably new, and is still functioning today. I will also accept an old computer that was put back into service either as a replacement for one the died, or because it was needed to do a job, and it was the best option for the job. So I wouldn't consider a collector or museum that has put an old machine into service just because they can (although that would still be interesting to know, but for my question, I would consider that a different catagory). This of course is 100% acceptable as an answer for my 2nd question that was: Whats the oldest computer connected online and preferably hosting a site that can be visited. Its very acceptable to me that the best answer for this is one that is doing it for no other reason than because someone wanted to see if it could be done with one of their old collected computers. But for my first question, 'm looking for the type of answer along the lines of "Company XXX still uses YYY for their ZZZ process". -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>