1 Apr
2003
1 Apr
'03
6:16 p.m.
The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with
the ibm pc.
the pc had fewer slots then the later released pc xt
and it's power supply was too small to handle a hard
drive.
the exp box added a hard drive to the system and
provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had
additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom
chip that went into the pc).
the card that connects to the ribbon cables that come
from the exp box goes into one of the pc's card
slots.
i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it can
go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back
that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the
case.
a local retired ibm ce had asked me years ago if i had
ever seen one - as he was looking for one at the time.
i was told that the expansion box was a little rare
because, shortly after the pc was released that pc xt
was released .
the pc xt has a large enough power supply to support
a hard drive as well as the bios to operate one and it
has eight card slots.
Bill
Message: 44
From: "Witchy" <witchy(a)binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
To: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: IBM 5161
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:25:09 +0100
Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
Hi collecting folks,
A surprise consignment arrived for me this morning -
an IBM 5150 in not
bad
condition complete with keyboard/monitor and a 5161
expansion box,
spare
expansion card and 2 extender cables.....reading the
classiccmp
archives
back to 1998 makes me think I should be impressed
since the 5161 isn't
that
common? It all apparently works but I won't be able to
set it up fully
till
tomorrow. Not much info about it on the web either,
though because 5161
is
obviously bits of a phone number there's a very high
signal to noise
ratio.....
cheers
--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic
shenanigans
--__--__--
2 Apr
2 Apr
8:09 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote:
The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with
the ibm pc.
the exp box added a hard drive to the system and
provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had
additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom
chip that went into the pc).
NOT for the hard disk.
i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it can
go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back
that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the
case.
The slots on the PC are wired in parallel. There is NO electrical
difference between them, other than physical distances.
But in the XT, one slot is different. At the time of the release of the
XT, IBM was worried that people would use that slot for something
incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current
loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to
block off that slot.
the pc xt has a large enough power supply to support
a hard drive as well as the bios to operate one and it
has eight card slots.
The XT BIOS does NOT include hard drive support. The ROM that includes
that extension to the BIOS is on the XT hard drive controller card. The
AT was the first to include hard drive support in the motherboard BIOS.
All but the very earliest 5150s had a BIOS that would scan for additional
ROMs, and other than number of slots and power supply inadequacy, would
take a hard drive EXACTLY the same way as an XT.
I think that the 5161 CAN be used on an XT, if eight is not enough.
BTW, IBM called it a "FIXED DRIVE", instead of calling it a "HARD
DRIVE". At their "Technical Briefing" when they introduced it,
they said that that was "because "HARD DRIVE" might sound like
it was "hard to use", and therefore "FIXED DRIVE" would have better
connotations". Some wise-ass in the audience said, "... in a VETERINARY
context?"
They also called the motherboard a "SYSTEM BOARD", due to possible
associations of "MOTHERBOARD" with the usage of the word "MOTHER..."
by the Black Panthers, et al.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
1:07 p.m.
On Tue, 1 Apr 2003, Bill Allen Jr wrote:
AFIAK there is no extra BIOS ROM for the expansion box.
The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use
with
the ibm pc.
the exp box added a hard drive to the system and
provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had
additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom
chip that went into the pc).
NOT for the hard disk. > i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it
can
> go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back
> that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the
> case.
The Extender crd that goes into the PC has a DC62 connector on the
bracket. There's a similar one on the Receiver card in the expansion
unit. You link them with a (round) cable. There are no ribbon cables
involved, nothing comes out through slots in the PC case.
The slots on the PC are wired in parallel. There is NO electrical
difference between them, other than physical distances.
Correct.
But in the XT, one slot is different. At the time of
the release of the
XT, IBM was worried that people would use that slot for something
incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current
loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to
Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a very useful thing to have...
block off that slot.
One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in the 5155 PortablePC.
That machine has a standard PC/XT motherboard in it. Alas the case is
just too short (about 1/2" too short) to allow the Async serial card to
fit in the special slot 8. Which means that slot 8 is essentially useless
in that machine.
I think that the 5161 CAN be used on an XT, if eight
is not enough.
Correct, it can. It also works on the 5155 'PortablePC', and is the only
offical way to put a hard disk on that machine. I guess it was a kind of
early 'docking station' :-)
AFAIK it _doesn't_ work on the 5170 PC/At, even if you only want to put 8
bit cards in the expansion unit. Pity....
-tony
1:45 p.m.
> incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of
serial (RS232 and current
> loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port is a
very useful thing to have...
Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other
companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for
serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX
functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were?
However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of
the after market cards could NOT.
One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in the
5155 PortablePC.
It has my nomination for the silliest design. (particularly when compared
with the comparable Compaq machine which has all slots usable)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
2:08 p.m.
Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
floppy, game port
>incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current
>loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to
>
>
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port
is a very useful thing to have...
Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other
companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for
serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX
functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were?
However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of
the after market cards could NOT.
One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in
the 5155 PortablePC.
It has my nomination for the silliest design. (particularly when compared
with the comparable Compaq machine which has all slots usable)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
2:27 p.m.
New subject: Multifunction (was: Re: IBM 5161
>Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on
the PC), and other
>companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for
>serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX
>functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were?
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, Kevin Handy wrote:
floppy, game port
floppy was quite rare on multifunction cards (until quite a bit later)
game port was fairly common.
But on a lot of "multifunction" cards (such as AST, Quadram, etc.),
options 5 and 6 were:
print spooling software, and ramdisk software!
2:48 p.m.
At 06:35 PM 4/2/03 -0700, you wrote:
Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
floppy, game port
BEEP! Nope.
Joe
>incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current
>loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to
>
>
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port
is a very useful thing to have...
Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other
companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for
serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX
functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were?
2:47 p.m.
At 04:42 PM 4/2/03 -0800, Grumpy Ol' Fred wrote:
Ramdisk and print buffer.
Joe
>
incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current
> loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port
is a very useful thing to have...
Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other
companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for
serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX
functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were? 
4:12 p.m.
how many people remember what the other two functions
were?
Game ( Joystick ) Port ?
In seeing if I could remember what they were, I came across a web site
called ... "die Jumper Site - The Jumper Site"
with jumper settings on A LOT of vintage hardware. In fact, it looks like
scans of the MicroHouse Technical Reference Library, so it might not last.
Samples of just the 8 bit ISA I/O cards
Text format at ... http://www.totalhardware.de/i/iio8_t.htm
Pictures format at ... http://www.totalhardware.de/i/iio8_i.htm
Pictures and Text format at ... http://www.totalhardware.de/i/iio8_1.htm
Main Page at ...
http://www.totalhardware.de/
Best Regards
At 04:42 PM 4/2/03 -0800, you wrote:
>
incompatible, and they had a giant surplus of serial (RS232 and current
> loop) cards that nobody wanted, so they provided a "FREE" serial card to
On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
Why did 'mobody' want them? A serial port
is a very useful thing to have...
Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the PC), and other
companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for
serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX
functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were?
However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of
the after market cards could NOT.
One of the most stupid things IBM ever did was in
the 5155 PortablePC.
It has my nomination for the silliest design. (particularly when compared
with the comparable Compaq machine which has all slots usable)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
3 Apr
3 Apr
10:06 a.m.
Because they occupied an entire slot (out of 5 on the
PC), and other
companies sold "multifunction" cards that could use the same slot for
serial, parallel, clock, and memory. Most of those were marketed as SIX
functions - how many people remember what the other two functions were?
Originally, I think the extra 2 functions were _software_, not hardware
on the board. Something like a print spooler and RAM disks to use all
that memory.
Later on, multifunction cards often included a games port, floppy
controller, and sometimes even video (there was a very popular card in
the UK that contained 2 serial ports, parallel port, joystick port,
Hercules/CGA graphics, floppy controller and real time clock -- yes, on
one full-length board).
However, the IBM "Async" card could ALSO do current loop, which most of
the after market cards could NOT.
That's one reason that I grab them if I see them...
-tony
4 Apr
4 Apr
7:19 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Bill Allen Jr
Sent: 02 April 2003 06:14
To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: IBM 5161
The ibm 5161 expansion box was designed for use with
the ibm pc.
And presumably *only* the PC, ie not the XT.
the pc had fewer slots then the later released pc xt
and it's power supply was too small to handle a hard
drive.
Yep, 5 slots and a 63W PSU that couldn't even handle a fully populated
backplane if some of the cards were a little power-hungry.
the exp box added a hard drive to the system and
provided extra card slots ( i think the box also had
additional bios or came with an extra fixed disk rom
chip that went into the pc).
Not that I've found, just an 8-slot backplane which immediately loses a slot
because one of them must be occupied by the receiving end of the expander
interface that has to go in the 5150. There might be a BIOS in that
interface though, I didn't really check that. The 5161 has a hard drive
controller card in it as well as a Seagate monster that's probably only 5 or
10 meg.
the card that connects to the ribbon cables that come
from the exp box goes into one of the pc's card slots.
No ribbon cables, just an interface cable that's thicker than my thumb!
i cannot remember if it is slot specific or if it can
go into any slot - there is a plate on the pc's back
that removes to allow the ribbon cables to exit the
case.
There's a plate on the back, yes, maybe very early boxes used ribbons and
the thicker cables came along later?
i was told that the expansion box was a little rare
because, shortly after the pc was released that pc xt
was released .
Well, a year later anyway, after the 5150 had shifted 200,000 units
according to most websites.
I've put a breakdown of the kit on my IBM page - go to
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk and click on the link in the very top 'updates'
message.
cheers
--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans
1:37 p.m.
The ibm 5161
expansion box was designed for use with
the ibm pc.
And presumably *only* the PC, ie not the XT. Not that I've found, just an 8-slot backplane
which immediately loses a slot
Yes, that's what I'd expect. It's almost a totally passive backplane, but
there's a clock generator chip + crystal to generate the 14MHz 'osc'
signal (which is not taken from the main PC)_
because one of them must be occupied by the receiving
end of the expander
interface that has to go in the 5150. There might be a BIOS in that
interface though, I didn't really check that. The 5161 has a hard drive
There isn't...
controller card in it as well as a Seagate monster
that's probably only 5 or
10 meg.
Yep...
the card that connects to the ribbon cables that
come
from the exp box goes into one of the pc's card slots.
No ribbon cables, just an interface cable that's thicker than my thumb!
7785
days inactive
7788
days old
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
kth＠srv.net -
mail.list＠analog-and-digital-solutions.com -
n8uhn＠yahoo.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk