25 May
1998
25 May
'98
2:25 p.m.
Check out Tandy's version of history from their web page:
"1977 TRS-80 Model I Personal Computer introduced.
(First mass-marketed personal computer. In contrast to
build-it-yourself computers available at the time, the TRS-80
was fully-wired and tested. Sold at a breakthrough price of
$599. More than 200,000 TRS-80 computers were sold from
1977 to 1981.)"
Ok, let's conveniently forget about the Apple ][. This is the most
blatant denial of reality and outright lie I've ever seen a company
publicly endorse.
"1980 TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer introduced.
(First computer ever to feature five programs and a
telephone modem built-in. Used by journalists throughout
the world.)"
First I question the year (I know it was later than 1980). This claim is
dubious at best. Mostly its broad and irrelevant. It seems they're
trying so hard to make this seem like a breakthrough (it was) that they
forgot to mention the real reasons why.
"1984 Tandy 1000 Personal Computer introduced.
(First PC-compatible personal computer. Within one year,
the Tandy 1000 became the best-selling PC-compatible
computer.)"
God, what a load of chicken turds. I think they missed this distinction
by 3 years and umpteen other companies. I'd like to kick the guy who
wrote all this crap in the nuts.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
25 May
25 May
2:45 p.m.
On Mon, 25 May 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
"1980 TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer
introduced.
(First computer ever to feature five programs and a
telephone modem built-in. Used by journalists throughout
the world.)"
First I question the year (I know it was later than 1980). This claim is
dubious at best. Mostly its broad and irrelevant. It seems they're
trying so hard to make this seem like a breakthrough (it was) that they
forgot to mention the real reasons why.
It was intro'd in 1983, I think. It was popular with journalists, but
the only way in which it was a breakthrough was that you could buy it at
Radio Shack. The Epson HX-20 that preceded it by a couple of years had
more features, but a smaller LCD.
-- Doug
3:57 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1379 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980526/5cb1d7c2/at…
4:36 p.m.
On Tue, 26 May 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
What the HX20 lacked was a built-in text editor (yes,
they were available
_later_). The only programs in the HX20 (I have several) were BASIC and a
machine code monitor. You couldn't turn it on and start typing.
Owning and using both, I find the M100 much more useful in the real
world. It's got a better keyboard, a much larger display (40*8 as against
20*4) and more useful built-in programs. The only thing the HX20 has is
the built-in printer (the cassette unit is an option on the HX20). And
that's not that useful.
I find the M100 more usable as well, but in terms of "breakthroughs", I
can't think of anything the M100 did that the HX-20 didn't do first: form
factor, LCD, ROM apps, expandibility, battery power. The HX-20 was pretty
pioneering, unless there were a bunch of Japanese-only machines that did
the same thing and I simply don't know about them. (The M100, BTW, was
made by Kyocera, but I think both Tandy and Bill "so sue me" Gates had
input into the design).
-- Doug
5:13 p.m.
On Mon, 25 May 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
the same thing and I simply don't know about them.
(The M100, BTW, was
made by Kyocera, but I think both Tandy and Bill "so sue me" Gates had
input into the design).
Well, according to Mr. Bill in _The Road Ahead_ (page 42...no I didn't
memorize the stupid book, I just happen to have it sitting here; I
haven't even read it yet), he "designed" the M100 with some cat named
Kazuhiko Nishi, who was like this Bill Gates of Japan. The idea was
pitched to Kyocera's president by Nishi on a plane ride. There's a grain
of truth in everything though.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
2:52 p.m.
New subject: Historic Printer available for trade/sell
I was cleaning out the loft, and found my old TrendCom 100 printer. I
think this was the first printer available for the Apple ][ (the
SilentType, or whatever Apple called their first printer, was an OEM'd
TrendCom 100). I still have the Apple ][ interface card for it. Make me
an offer.
-- Doug
3:17 p.m.
Sam Ismail wrote:
Check out Tandy's version of history from their web page:
"1977 TRS-80 Model I Personal Computer introduced.
(First mass-marketed personal computer. In contrast to
build-it-yourself computers available at the time, the TRS-80
was fully-wired and tested. Sold at a breakthrough price of
$599. More than 200,000 TRS-80 computers were sold from
1977 to 1981.)"
Ok, let's conveniently forget about the Apple ][. This is the most
blatant denial of reality and outright lie I've ever seen a company
publicly endorse.
Well, I've seen companies publicly endorse far bigger lies. It is
true that the Model One shipped to _end users_ in quantity before
either the Apple II or the Pet, despite those systems being
announced and advertised months earlier -- since the TRS-80 wasn't
announced until 5000 of them had actually been built. Beyond that
it depends on the definition of "mass-marketed" -- since Tandy had
a large retail chain, and Apples and Pets were sold through mostly
smaller outlets.
"1980 TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer
introduced.
(First computer ever to feature five programs and a
telephone modem built-in. Used by journalists throughout
the world.)"
First I question the year (I know it was later than 1980). This claim is
dubious at best. Mostly its broad and irrelevant. It seems they're
trying so hard to make this seem like a breakthrough (it was) that they
forgot to mention the real reasons why.
It was 1983 and I personally addressed several hundred of them to
the Los Angeles Times.
"1984 Tandy 1000 Personal Computer introduced.
(First PC-compatible personal computer. Within one year,
the Tandy 1000 became the best-selling PC-compatible
computer.)"
God, what a load of chicken turds. I think they missed this distinction
by 3 years and umpteen other companies. I'd like to kick the guy who
wrote all this crap in the nuts.
There I can agree, it wasn't even Tandy's first PC compatible, which
was the Tandon-built Tandy 1200 piece of crap. It _was_ outselling
either IBM or Compaq within a year despite my best efforts.
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
3:53 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1907 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980526/2ea50be8/at…
5:06 p.m.
On Tue, 26 May 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
No flames, but the PET and the TRS-80 had one
marketting advantage over
the Apple ][ - they were complete systems. Take a TRS-80 or an PET home,
plug it in, and start programming in BASIC. Take an Apple ][ home and
you've either got to get a video monitor or an RF modulator before it
could work.
Oh come on. The PET I can agree with, but the TRS-80 still required the
purchase of an external monitor, and one could just as easily (if not more
easily) have purchased an RF modulator for the Apple. Besides, they're
wording this as though the PET and the Apple ][ came to you as a box of
chips, boards and components. Even still, the Apple ][ and the PET were
both at the 1977 West Coast Computer Faire (April), while the Model 1 was
not even announced until August of '77!
I'm not going to start a technical comparison
flamefest. It's a waste of
time. I grew up with the TRS-80, and little is going to make me dislike
it. Now, I have a couple of model 1s, a model 3, a model 4, a PET 2001, a
pet 8032SK, a couple of Apple ][s, an Apple //e, etc....
Cool. But I'm just pointing out the blatant misinformation on the web
page. Nothing personal.
I'm going to go write a letter to the webmaster and let the bastards have
it.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
26 May
26 May
9:27 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1433 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980526/dd4acccf/at…
27 May
27 May
4:56 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Agreed. That web page is full of errors!
Do remember that that the _real_ Tandy computer line ended with the
sale of _all_ manufacturing or real support capability in 1993 to AST.
(Well, the _real_ Tandy computer line ended in 1988 with the end ofthe
Color Computer 3 and the TRS-80 4D, but I'm _trying_ to give some
undeserved credit to the guys in the PC compatible product lines). Any
"computer support" people they now have (including any so-called Web
Masters) remember nothing of when Tandy designed and manufactured
their own computers and software. And they did some of the best Z-80
software in history. Scripsit 2.0 for the Model II is the second-best
_general purpose_ word processing program in history, just ahead of
WordStar 3.3 and just behind AllWrite by Prosoft. In my arrogant
opinion, and I started my career doing traing and support at a Radio
Shack Computer Center in 1980, left in 1986 _because_ everything was
about to be PC-compatible, and have since had to support crappy
Microsoft users because they insist on connecting the damned things to
the Unix boxes that are what I prefer. (I keep having to learn the
latest collection of Microsoft errors [oops, the latest version of
Windows] in self-defense).
Yes, Microsoft was _critical_ to the success of several Tandy products,
such as most BASIC interpreters and getting Xenix started. But they in
the end destroyed Tandy's credibility with the help of Tandy Corp.
--
Ward Griffiths
They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
I'm going to go write a letter to the
webmaster and let the bastards have
it.
Good idea. I don't like errors on the web, no matter how much I wish they
were correct. 
5:41 p.m.
Ward Griffiths wrote:
Any "computer support" people they now have
(including any so-called Web
Masters) remember nothing of when Tandy designed and manufactured
their own computers and software. And they did some of the best Z-80
software in history. Scripsit 2.0 for the Model II is the second-best
_general purpose_ word processing program in history, just ahead of
WordStar 3.3 and just behind AllWrite by Prosoft. In my arrogant
opinion, and I started my career doing traing and support at a Radio
Shack Computer Center in 1980, left in 1986 _because_ everything was
about to be PC-compatible, and have since had to support crappy
Microsoft users because they insist on connecting the damned things to
the Unix boxes that are what I prefer. (I keep having to learn the
latest collection of Microsoft errors [oops, the latest version of
Windows] in self-defense).
Yeah, well I've been so sure of my view that WordStar was the best
general purpose word processing problem -- I think it's time for the great
editor debate round two.
(I especially loved WS v4 -- the New Word rework for CP/M and v6 of WS
for DOS.)
(I actually fell in love with WS2000 which had the one drawback -- that is
that it's not WS key compatible)
Radio Shack (Tandy) and Heath (Zenith) did some great work and they don't get
the credit they deserve.
Microsoft wrote a very nice 8080 CP/M basic, however.
8-)
Bill
6:04 p.m.
On Wed, 27 May 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
undeserved credit to the guys in the PC compatible
product lines). Any
"computer support" people they now have (including any so-called Web
Masters) remember nothing of when Tandy designed and manufactured
their own computers and software. And they did some of the best Z-80
All the more reason to clue them in to the actual facts, rather than let
pass this egregious excuse for "research" done most likely by some recent
college graduate.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
6:16 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 735 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980527/cdefd653/at…
28 May
28 May
10:58 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1277 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980528/b9242902/at…
26 May
26 May
9:30 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 671 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980526/edf7d5be/at…
25 May
25 May
4:10 p.m.
At 04:25 PM 5/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
Check out Tandy's version of history from their web page:
"1977 TRS-80 Model I Personal Computer introduced.
(First mass-marketed personal computer. In contrast to
build-it-yourself computers available at the time, the TRS-80
was fully-wired and tested. Sold at a breakthrough price of
$599. More than 200,000 TRS-80 computers were sold from
1977 to 1981.)"
Let's see 200,000 units x $599 = LOTS of dough!!!!!! Boy, I'll bet Ray
Holt is still crying in his beer!
Joe
4:16 p.m.
At 08:10 PM 5/25/98 +0000, you wrote:
At 04:25 PM 5/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
Joe,
Actually, I wasn't crying at all until I saw in "The Road Ahead" where the
marketing manager took complete credit for the entire concept and design.
Too bad the design was a prototype and not fully debugged. Guess he got
what he deserved. Besides we were only promised the first 2000 of production.
Ray Holt
Check out Tandy's version of history from their web page:
"1977 TRS-80 Model I Personal Computer introduced.
(First mass-marketed personal computer. In contrast to
build-it-yourself computers available at the time, the TRS-80
was fully-wired and tested. Sold at a breakthrough price of
$599. More than 200,000 TRS-80 computers were sold from
1977 to 1981.)"
Let's see 200,000 units x $599 = LOTS of dough!!!!!! Boy, I'll bet Ray
Holt is still crying in his beer!
Joe 
26 May
26 May
5:28 a.m.
At 04:25 PM 5/25/98 -0700, you wrote:
Check out Tandy's version of history from their web page:
[snip]
"1984 Tandy 1000 Personal Computer introduced.
(First PC-compatible personal computer. Within one year,
the Tandy 1000 became the best-selling PC-compatible
computer.)"
God, what a load of chicken turds. I think they missed this distinction
by 3 years and umpteen other companies. I'd like to kick the guy who
wrote all this crap in the nuts.
Uh, make that PCjr-compatible. Talk about a "creative" memory. I'd like
some of what this guy's been smokin' for next Saturday night, puh-lease!
Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/11/98]
--
David Wollmann
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com
9586
days inactive
9589
days old
19 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dastar＠wco.com -
dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com -
gram＠cnct.com -
gzozman＠escape.ca -
joltdesigner＠usa.net -
pechter＠shell.monmouth.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca -
yowza＠yowza.com