17 Jun
2005
17 Jun
'05
7:32 a.m.
I'm trying to repair the tape drive in an HP 9825. The roller has melted
(no surprise there). It seems like I could just get a bit of silicon
tubing or something that has the same diameter and guage as the existing
roller.
I know this has been discussed before but I can't find any specific
messages (by the way, the CC archive search is broken, Jay). Can anyone
provide any tips or guidance so I don't have to re-learn mistakes already
made?
Any tips for cleaning off the existing material? Isopropyl alcohol? Any
thoughts of using heatshrink tubing and applying multiple layers until it
has the same thickness as the original roller?
Thanks for any help. This will be a candidate for adding to the knowledge
base once I've successfully replaced the roller.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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17 Jun
17 Jun
7:55 a.m.
On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 04:32 -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Any tips for cleaning off the existing material?
Isopropyl alcohol?
Presumably the roller is secured by a circlip and you can remove it for
cleaning rather than having to do it in place? In which case any
cleaning product will do the job nicely as it's not going to contaminate
anything important...
Any thoughts of using heatshrink tubing and applying
multiple layers
until it has the same thickness as the original roller?
I'm guessing it wouldn't contract evenly and you'd end up with something
that wasn't very round. Some sort of silicone tubing sounds like a
better bet...
cheers
Jules
8:22 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-06-17 at 04:32 -0700, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
No way...
It's fixed to the motor spindle, and carries a tacho disk (with clear
and black lines) at the lower end. This is hidden inside the plastic
chassis of the tape drive, between a light bulb and a phototransistor.
I've not had my 9825 apart for some time, but I can remember that you
take out the complete tape drive unit, and then remove the screws holding
the PCB and mechanism to the mouting bracket. The motor assembly is held
in place by screws from the 'bottom; (non-cartridge-side) of the drive,
but I can't remember if you have to desolder any wires to get it to come
free enough. Then you can remove the setscrew(s) that hold the roller to
the motor and pull it off the spindle. Problem is that the setscrews burr
the spindle, and often the roller doesn't want to shift...
-tony
Any tips for cleaning off the existing material?
Isopropyl alcohol?
Presumably the roller is secured by a circlip and you can remove it for
18 Jun
18 Jun
1:35 a.m.
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Right.
Presumably the
roller is secured by a circlip and you can remove it for
No way... It's fixed to the motor spindle, and carries a
tacho disk (with clear
and black lines) at the lower end. This is hidden inside the plastic
chassis of the tape drive, between a light bulb and a phototransistor.
Ok, I didn't realize all that was going on.
I've not had my 9825 apart for some time, but I
can remember that you
take out the complete tape drive unit, and then remove the screws holding
the PCB and mechanism to the mouting bracket. The motor assembly is held
in place by screws from the 'bottom; (non-cartridge-side) of the drive,
but I can't remember if you have to desolder any wires to get it to come
free enough. Then you can remove the setscrew(s) that hold the roller to
the motor and pull it off the spindle. Problem is that the setscrews burr
the spindle, and often the roller doesn't want to shift...
My experience differs, but then I may not have been paying adequate
attention.
I had to remove the three screws holding the PCB to the aluminum bracket
so that I could get to the one screw (of three) that attached the tape
unit to the rest of the chassis. Then I could remove the tape unit (after
unplugging the cable). The aluminum bracket has two screws attaching it
to the body of the tape unit. Once those are off, you can extract the
aluminum bracket and get at the roller and read/write head. I couldn't
figure out how to remove the motor so I left it in place.
I couldn't find any of the recommended materials at the local hardware
store (never even heard of Tygon) but I did find latex tubing, and I
figured that would work just as well as anything. I cleaned off most of
the old roller material and decided to leave in place what I couldn't
scrape off to work as a sort of adhesive (that stuff is sticky). The
latex tubing had a 1/4" inside diameter and a 3/8" outside diameter. The
diameter of the spindle head is 3/8", so the tight fit gave it added
traction. The thickness of the latex tubing is of course 1/8", which is
about double the thickness of the original roller. But now the spindle
was too thick and was wedged against the read/write head. So I got some
sandpaper and attached a 9V supply to the motor and lathed it down about
1/32". Latex is difficult to cut straight so I also smoothed out the top
and bottom of the ring. Latex boogers were all over the drive mechanism
after that so I blew it out pretty good with compressed air. It now
looked pretty nice; a little rough--a finer grit sandpaper was probably in
order--but passable.
I re-assembled everything and tested it. It had trouble at first: the
drive would start up but then I'd get error 43 (unexpected BOT or EOT or
tape error). I kept re-trying and eventually it seemed to work, but then
I pulled the tape and examined it and it seemed like the tension loop
inside had come undone. I opened the tape casing and, being an idiot,
pulled it apart from the wrong side, and all the internal spindles fell
out. So now I have a thoroughly scrambled tape that I now need to figure
out how to re-assemble (I was supposed to be getting the data off this
tape).
Anyway, more work is in order.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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9:02 a.m.
At 10:35 PM 6/17/05 -0700, you wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Right.
Check your tape! I'll bet that you'll find a spot where the media has
come of the plastic tape and now leaves a clear spot. The EOT sensor sees
the clear spot and thinks that it's the EOT hole.
I kept re-trying and eventually it seemed to work, but then
Presumably the roller is secured by a circlip and you can remove it for
No way... It's fixed to the motor spindle, and carries
a tacho disk (with clear
and black lines) at the lower end. This is hidden inside the plastic
chassis of the tape drive, between a light bulb and a phototransistor.
Ok, I didn't realize all that was going on.
I've not had my 9825 apart for some time, but
I can remember that you
take out the complete tape drive unit, and then remove the screws holding
the PCB and mechanism to the mouting bracket. The motor assembly is held
in place by screws from the 'bottom; (non-cartridge-side) of the drive,
but I can't remember if you have to desolder any wires to get it to come
free enough. Then you can remove the setscrew(s) that hold the roller to
the motor and pull it off the spindle. Problem is that the setscrews burr
the spindle, and often the roller doesn't want to shift...
My experience differs, but then I may not have been paying adequate
attention.
I had to remove the three screws holding the PCB to the aluminum bracket
so that I could get to the one screw (of three) that attached the tape
unit to the rest of the chassis. Then I could remove the tape unit (after
unplugging the cable). The aluminum bracket has two screws attaching it
to the body of the tape unit. Once those are off, you can extract the
aluminum bracket and get at the roller and read/write head. I couldn't
figure out how to remove the motor so I left it in place.
I couldn't find any of the recommended materials at the local hardware
store (never even heard of Tygon) but I did find latex tubing, and I
figured that would work just as well as anything. I cleaned off most of
the old roller material and decided to leave in place what I couldn't
scrape off to work as a sort of adhesive (that stuff is sticky). The
latex tubing had a 1/4" inside diameter and a 3/8" outside diameter. The
diameter of the spindle head is 3/8", so the tight fit gave it added
traction. The thickness of the latex tubing is of course 1/8", which is
about double the thickness of the original roller. But now the spindle
was too thick and was wedged against the read/write head. So I got some
sandpaper and attached a 9V supply to the motor and lathed it down about
1/32". Latex is difficult to cut straight so I also smoothed out the top
and bottom of the ring. Latex boogers were all over the drive mechanism
after that so I blew it out pretty good with compressed air. It now
looked pretty nice; a little rough--a finer grit sandpaper was probably in
order--but passable.
I re-assembled everything and tested it. It had trouble at first: the
drive would start up but then I'd get error 43 (unexpected BOT or EOT or
tape error). I pulled the tape and examined it and it seemed like
the tension loop
inside had come undone. I opened the tape casing and, being an idiot,
pulled it apart from the wrong side, and all the internal spindles fell
out. So now I have a thoroughly scrambled tape that I now need to figure
out how to re-assemble
Good Luck! I've reassembled the tapes but I could never get them to
tighten up the slack tape that was inside. The tapes are suppsoed to be
selftightening but they won't tighten up for me.
Joe
Joe
(I was supposed to be getting the data off this
tape).
Anyway, more work is in order.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers
]
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http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
12:02 p.m.
At 12:35 AM 6/18/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I couldn't find any of the recommended materials at
the local hardware
store (never even heard of Tygon) but I did find latex tubing, and I
figured that would work just as well as anything.
Tygon is the clear tubing you might find in a chemistry lab.
I don't think the clear stuff at the hardware store is Tygon.
Around here, the (dairy) farm supply stores carry a wider
assortment of tubing than the hardware stores.
Where did you find latex tubing? A medical-ish source?
- John
2:14 p.m.
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005, John Foust wrote:
At 12:35 AM 6/18/2005, Vintage Computer Festival
wrote:
It's not, it's vinyl. I wouldn't recommend vinyl (too stiff and probably
breaks down over time faster and more so than other materials).
I couldn't find any of the recommended
materials at the local hardware
store (never even heard of Tygon) but I did find latex tubing, and I
figured that would work just as well as anything.
Tygon is the clear tubing you might find in a chemistry lab.
I don't think the clear stuff at the hardware store is Tygon. Where did you find latex tubing? A medical-ish
source?
Lowes.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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7:02 p.m.
It's fixed
to the motor spindle, and carries a tacho disk (with clear
and black lines) at the lower end. This is hidden inside the plastic
chassis of the tape drive, between a light bulb and a phototransistor.
Ok, I didn't realize all that was going on. I had to remove the three screws holding the PCB to
the aluminum bracket
so that I could get to the one screw (of three) that attached the tape
unit to the rest of the chassis. Then I could remove the tape unit (after
I _thought_ you could remvoe the complete tape drive/bracket/PCB from the
keyboard assembly without dismantling it at all, but as I said, it's been
a long time. Anyway, there's no problem in removing the PCB like you did.
I do know you can remove the tape drives from a 9845 (similar drives,
very different brackets) without dismantling them, because I did that
about a week ago. 4 screws and they come right out.
unplugging the cable). The aluminum bracket has two
screws attaching it
to the body of the tape unit. Once those are off, you can extract the
aluminum bracket and get at the roller and read/write head. I couldn't
figure out how to remove the motor so I left it in place.
The motor is mounted to a plastic disk that's fixed to the drive
(plastic) chassis by 3 or 4 screws. It's on the bottom, the side without
the head. Undo the screws and pull the motor, complete with the tacho
sensor and the roller asssembky out.
I couldn't find any of the recommended materials at the local hardware
store (never even heard of Tygon) but I did find latex tubing, and I
Does anyone know a UK supplier for similar tubing (in sane lengths, like
by the metre)?
figured that would work just as well as anything. I
cleaned off most of
the old roller material and decided to leave in place what I couldn't
scrape off to work as a sort of adhesive (that stuff is sticky). The
latex tubing had a 1/4" inside diameter and a 3/8" outside diameter. The
diameter of the spindle head is 3/8", so the tight fit gave it added
traction. The thickness of the latex tubing is of course 1/8", which is
about double the thickness of the original roller. But now the spindle
was too thick and was wedged against the read/write head. So I got some
sandpaper and attached a 9V supply to the motor and lathed it down about
You were lucky (or had spent some time figuring out the wiring, I know
which I believe). The motor control circuit is not on the tape drive PCB,
it's on the tape controller (one board up from the bottom in the stack of
boards in the main chassis). So with the tape drive cable unplugged, the
motor is electrically isolated and it's safe to connect a supply to it.
The reason I mention this is that on some machines connecting a supply to
the motor with the controller still connector does nasty things to bits
of the mtoor controller.
I re-assembled everything and tested it. It had
trouble at first: the
drive would start up but then I'd get error 43 (unexpected BOT or EOT or
tape error). I kept re-trying and eventually it seemed to work, but then
I pulled the tape and examined it and it seemed like the tension loop
inside had come undone. I opened the tape casing and, being an idiot,
pulled it apart from the wrong side, and all the internal spindles fell
out. So now I have a thoroughly scrambled tape that I now need to figure
out how to re-assemble (I was supposed to be getting the data off this
tape).
Ouch. The normal method of dismantling is to undo the screws, then filp
the catridge over (metal plate on the bottom) and lift off the cover.
To reassemble, the easiest way I've found is as follows :
Put the full spool on its spindle
Add the drive 'puck' (that's the term I've seen in all the manuals), the
belt and the 2 idler rollers at the front of the cartridige
Put the empty spool on its spindle, then bring the belt round it with
something like a cocktail stick.
Run the tape round the guids and put the end between the belt and the
empty spool. Now start turning the drive puck by hand to run the tape
onto the spool (it is gripped by the belt). Give it about 5 turns round
the spool, then turn the 2 spools in opposite directions to tension the
tape.
Fit the door and its spring. IIRC you can put the spring into the door,
hook it into a little slot to hold it tenssioned, then drop the assembly
over the pivot pin and then flick the end of the spring to release it.
Put the cover on, fit the screws.
I think the DEC TU58 user manual has some instructions for re-threading
tapes in the back. It's much the same cartridge...
-tony
6 Jul
6 Jul
12:12 a.m.
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Ouch. The normal method of dismantling is to undo the
screws, then filp
the catridge over (metal plate on the bottom) and lift off the cover.
To reassemble, the easiest way I've found is as follows :
Put the full spool on its spindle
Add the drive 'puck' (that's the term I've seen in all the manuals), the
belt and the 2 idler rollers at the front of the cartridige
Put the empty spool on its spindle, then bring the belt round it with
something like a cocktail stick.
Run the tape round the guids and put the end between the belt and the
empty spool. Now start turning the drive puck by hand to run the tape
onto the spool (it is gripped by the belt). Give it about 5 turns round
the spool, then turn the 2 spools in opposite directions to tension the
tape.
Fit the door and its spring. IIRC you can put the spring into the door,
hook it into a little slot to hold it tenssioned, then drop the assembly
over the pivot pin and then flick the end of the spring to release it.
Well, I finally got around to attempting to re-spool this stupidly
designed tape.
Your description sounds like a different tape than what I was dealing
with. The tape did not come off of either spool but was instead attached
onto both spools.
At any rate, the stupid tensioning belt (whatever its called) broke on me.
Oh well, fuck that tape. I'll try to read it anyway (is the tensioning
belt necessary?) I also noticed numerous spots on the the tape where the
oxide had flaked off, so any re-attempt may well be futile. Whoever
designed these tapes is a moron. I can't imagine how impossibly expensive
it must've been to manufacture them.
I hate computers.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
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12:27 a.m.
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
At any rate, the stupid tensioning belt (whatever its
called) broke on me.
Oh well, fuck that tape. I'll try to read it anyway (is the tensioning
belt necessary?)
Answer: yes, the belt is necessary, because otherwise the tape cannot move
in either direction. Wow, what a great design! Kudos to the idiot that
invented it.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
7:10 p.m.
Well, I finally got around to attempting to re-spool this stupidly
designed tape.
It's actually avery ingenious design (it's the same design, basically, as
QIC tape cartridges). Remember you want a constant tape speed past the
head. By driving the outside of the tape spools at a constant speed
(that's what the belt and drive puck do), rather than turning the spools
themselves by their axles, that's exactly what you get. It avoids the
capstan, pinch roller, slipping clutches, etc, used in audio tape and
cassette recorders.
Your description sounds like a different tape than what I was dealing
with. The tape did not come off of either spool but was instead attached
onto both spools.
THere were several designs, sure...
At any rate, the stupid tensioning belt (whatever its called) broke on me.
Oh well, fuck that tape. I'll try to read it anyway (is the tensioning
belt necessary?) I also noticed numerous spots on the the tape where the
Of course the belt is necessary. It's how the tape is driven. You can
borrow one from another tape cartridge.
oxide had flaked off, so any re-attempt may well be
futile. Whoever
Obviously you've lost data where that oxide is missing. You'll also have
problems becuase these drives use optincal BOT/EOT detection (there's a
small hole in the tape, a mirror as part of the cartridge housing, and a
bulb/photodetector in the drive). The system will think it's got to the
end of the tape if it finds a clear spot.
designed these tapes is a moron. I can't imagine
how impossibly expensive
it must've been to manufacture them.
See above. Tell you what, you see if you can come up with a better design.
I hate computers.
Feel free to send me all your collection.
-tony
8:16 p.m.
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Come get it. It's yours. Bring along six 40' shipping containers and a
crew of 7. I'll give you 24 hours and you have to take all or nothing.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
I hate
computers.
Feel free to send me all your collection.
7 Jul
7 Jul
3:15 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Come get it. It's yours. Bring along six 40' shipping containers and a
crew of 7. I'll give you 24 hours and you have to take all or nothing.
Which part of 'send' do you not understand :-)
-tony
I hate
computers.
Feel free to send me all your collection.
5:34 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Oops, sorry, didn't see that. Give me your address then. Make sure you
have 800 square feet of space in your backyard cleared out. I figure we
can stack the containers three high side by side.
Expect delivery in about 6 weeks.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
On Thu, 7 Jul
2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Come get it. It's yours. Bring along six 40' shipping containers and a
crew of 7. I'll give you 24 hours and you have to take all or nothing.
Which part of 'send' do you not understand :-) I hate
computers.
Feel free to send me all your collection. 
7:33 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
> I hate
computers.
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
> Feel free to send me all your collection. Oops, sorry, didn't see that. Give me your
address then. Make sure you
have 800 square feet of space in your backyard cleared out. I figure we
can stack the containers three high side by side.
Expect delivery in about 6 weeks.
SIX 40' containers, ???????
That sounds suspiciously like the culled duplicates
from Sellam's collection,
not the whole
thing.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
8:31 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Fred Cisin wrote:
SIX 40' containers, ???????
That sounds suspiciously like the culled duplicates
from Sellam's collection,
not the whole thing.
SHHHHHHHHH! You're giving it away!!
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
11:08 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
Oops, sorry, didn't see that. Give me your
address then. Make sure you
have 800 square feet of space in your backyard cleared out. I figure we
can stack the containers three high side by side.
Expect delivery in about 6 weeks.
I can take the delivery, empty farmland behind - Let's get started!
8 Jul
8 Jul
12:35 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
Ok, several people have expressed interest in this "deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
anyone who thinks they can pull it off:
You have 24 hours to unload every last IC and piece of paper in my
warehouse. You are allowed one (and only one) helper of your choosing.
You must take it all. Shelving is optional.
If you are unable to have everything removed from my warehouse by the time
the 24 hours is up, you must put everything back where you found it. You
will also have to pay for anything you broke.
I'm quite serious.
Now, who's up for it?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Oops, sorry, didn't see that. Give me your
address then. Make sure you
have 800 square feet of space in your backyard cleared out. I figure we
can stack the containers three high side by side.
Expect delivery in about 6 weeks.
I can take the delivery, empty farmland behind - Let's get started!
1:01 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Ok, several people have expressed interest in this
"deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
anyone who thinks they can pull it off:
You have 24 hours to unload every last IC and piece of paper in my
warehouse. You are allowed one (and only one) helper of your choosing.
You must take it all. Shelving is optional.
If you are unable to have everything removed from my warehouse by the time
the 24 hours is up, you must put everything back where you found it. You
will also have to pay for anything you broke.
I'm quite serious.
Now, who's up for it?
And here are photos so you can see what you're up against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
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1:15 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
At 12:01 PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
And here are photos so you can see what you're up
against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Ah, thank you. I will rub these pictures like cool smooth stones
against my temples when I need to reassure myself that
"I may think I have a lot of junk, but at least I'm not as crazy as Xxxx."
- John
1:24 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
At 12:01 PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer Festival
wrote:
Agreed, overall I feel more pity than anything else, though #8 does make me
green with envy, I wish I had that much space for my collection of books!
Of course things like this remind me that I actually need to put more effort
into shrinking my collection.
Zane
And here are photos so you can see what you're
up against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Ah, thank you. I will rub these pictures like cool smooth stones
against my temples when I need to reassure myself that
"I may think I have a lot of junk, but at least I'm not as crazy as Xxxx."
- John 
1:33 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
Truly amazing: when I visited during VCF 6, I asked Sellam where I could a
specific Atari 2600 cartridge, and he instantly directed me to a specific
box.
LOL, of course, I had to use a GPS, snorkeling and rappeling gear, a
sledgehammer, and two remote-control reconnaissance planes. Also, I had to
hire a Sherpa and perform weeks of high-altitude training first.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:24 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Take My Warehouse, Please!
At 12:01 PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer Festival
wrote:
Agreed, overall I feel more pity than anything else, though #8 does make me
green with envy, I wish I had that much space for my collection of books!
Of course things like this remind me that I actually need to put more effort
into shrinking my collection.
Zane
And here are photos so you can see what you're
up against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Ah, thank you. I will rub these pictures like cool smooth stones
against my temples when I need to reassure myself that "I may think I
have a lot of junk, but at least I'm not as crazy as Xxxx."
- John
1:54 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
At 12:33 PM 7/8/2005, 'Computer Collector Newsletter' wrote:
LOL, of course, I had to use a GPS, snorkeling and
rappeling gear, a
sledgehammer, and two remote-control reconnaissance planes. Also, I had to
hire a Sherpa and perform weeks of high-altitude training first.
But the sickness inside me looks at all the wasted space... Why,
with those high ceilings, he could put in almost an entire second
level, if not a floor then various types of cargo nets and
around-the-wall upper-level shelving to consume even more space.
- John
1:54 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Paul Koning wrote:
Yes.
Ok, stop downloading now, please. You're killing my server ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
> At 12:01
PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >And here
> are photos so you can see what you're up against:
> >
> >http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Wow.
Is that a VT05 in picture 4? 
2:06 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake:
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Paul Koning wrote:
Yes.
Ok, stop downloading now, please. You're killing my server ;)
Hmm.... I am sure the fine people at SlashDot would love to view your
warehouse! <run for cover>
Cheers,
Bryan
> At
12:01 PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >And here
> are photos so you can see what you're up against:
> >
> >http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Wow.
Is that a VT05 in picture 4? 
2:21 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
Is this Sellam's warehouse or Weirdstuff.... damn dude, I thought I had
a lot of stuff, wow!!! You are just outright scary!!! So what time
can I show up to pick it all up ;-)
Curt
Bryan Pope wrote:
And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake:
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/2005
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Paul Koning wrote:
Yes.
Ok, stop downloading now, please. You're killing my server ;)
Hmm.... I am sure the fine people at SlashDot would love to view your
warehouse! <run for cover>
Cheers,
Bryan
> At
12:01 PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >And here
> are photos so you can see what you're up against:
> >
> >http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Wow.
Is that a VT05 in picture 4?
2:56 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Ok, stop downloading now, please. You're killing
my server ;)
Mirrored here (in gallery with slideshow, etc):
http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-sellam
Sellam: holler if you want me to take 'em down. or, register on the
gallery and I'll let you add comments and more pictures. ;-)
--
Tim Riker - http://Rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Embedded Linux Technologist - http://eLinux.org/
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
3:37 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
Hmmm...
Where are the ones you play with? It's a shame to have that
many toys and not play with them. If I had that kind of space
I'd keep a corner clear with a couple of big tables and lots
of available power so I could haul stuff over to the "play area"
and run it now and then.
3:54 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
I believe that's called his house.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Bill Sudbrink
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:38 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Take My Warehouse, Please!
Hmmm...
Where are the ones you play with? It's a shame to have that many toys and
not play with them. If I had that kind of space I'd keep a corner clear
with a couple of big tables and lots of available power so I could haul
stuff over to the "play area"
and run it now and then.
3:56 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
Where are the ones you play with? It's a shame to
have that
many toys and not play with them. If I had that kind of space
I'd keep a corner clear with a couple of big tables and lots
of available power so I could haul stuff over to the "play area"
and run it now and then.
When I really need space I make it. For example, I built the PDP-1
replica in the space at the back near the loading dock. But as with all
vacuums, stuff found a way to fill it back in.
A more permanent arrangement that includes ample play space is in the
works. What are you seeing now is the mess that still remains from my
last move.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
5:50 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Bill Sudbrink wrote:
Hmmm...
Where are the ones you play with?
In the "BIG ROOM".
The pictures of what Sellam is offering must be one of the smallest
of his warehouses. He's obviously trying to do everyone a favor,
and only offering what COULD BE moved in 24 hours.
Where are the printers?
...the piles of extra disk drives?
... the wall of 5150s?
... the rest of the monitors?
... the wall of Macintoshes?
I'm sure that he has a lot more Apple ][s than are in #6.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1:56 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
Paul Koning! Paul Koning! There's a name that I recognize! Paul!
Has anyone checked out cyber1.org, which is Paul's reanimation of the old
CDC Plato Network; amazingly cool stuff. Amazing. You've got to check
it out - Paul is seriously such an inspiration. Contrary to my wife's
ideas about his project, I think it's pretty damn cool!
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:42:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Take My Warehouse, Please!
> At 12:01 PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer
Festival wrote: >And here
> are photos so you can see what you're up against:
> >
> >http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Wow.
Is that a VT05 in picture 4?
paul
3:33 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
If you gotta be THAT crazy, at least Sellam is doing it in style! ;-)
Curt
John Foust wrote:
At 12:01 PM 7/8/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/2005
And here are photos so you can see what you're
up against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Ah, thank you. I will rub these pictures like cool smooth stones
against my temples when I need to reassure myself that
"I may think I have a lot of junk, but at least I'm not as crazy as Xxxx."
- John
3:51 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
If you gotta be THAT crazy, at least Sellam is doing
it in style! ;-)
That's right, baby. All bow to my superior insanity :)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
4:11 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please!
All bow to my superior insanity
Wait!!!! I love that, I think I'm gonna make that my signature! :-)
Curt
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/2005
1:21 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825tape drive)
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
And here are photos so you can see what you're up
against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Nah, with my luck there would be an earthquake precisely when
I was moving all that; there's enough stuff there
to kill/bury every single classiccmp'er. And that is California, right?
--
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez
Universidad Autonoma de Manizales, Manizales, Colombia
----
"I don't know a lot necessarily about the business or the industry, but I know
how to kick butt. That's what I do." Jeffrey R. Immelt, General Electric's
CEO, to executives of GE's daughter company MSNBC.
11 Jul
11 Jul
11:48 a.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825tape drive)
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Carlos Murillo-Sanchez wrote:
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I do worry about that. The current arrangement is definitely not
earthquake safe.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
And here are photos so you can see what
you're up against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Nah, with my luck there would be an earthquake precisely when
I was moving all that; there's enough stuff there
to kill/bury every single classiccmp'er. And that is California, right? 
12:03 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825tape drive)
How do you make a use of this huge collection?
12:49 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825tape drive)
On Mon, 11 Jul 2005, 9000 VAX wrote:
How do you make a use of this huge collection?
www.vintage.org
www.vintagetech.com
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
8 Jul
8 Jul
2:59 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
And here are photos so you can see what you're up
against:
The scary thing is that I have seen a team of two guys actually clean up a
warehouse pile like that in 24 hours.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
3:14 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
I do think it's possible. Highly improbable, but possible.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of William Donzelli
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:00 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP
9825 tape drive)
And here are photos so you can see what you're up
against:
The scary thing is that I have seen a team of two guys actually clean up a
warehouse pile like that in 24 hours.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
3:25 p.m.
New subject: Take My Wife, Please! (was Re: Will trade for warehouse)
Heh.
-----Original Message-----
From: "'Computer Collector Newsletter'" <news at
computercollector.com>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 15:14:23 -0400
Subject: RE: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on
HP 9825 tape drive)
I do think it's possible. Highly improbable, but
possible.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of William Donzelli
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:00 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber
on HP
9825 tape drive)
And here are photos so you can see what
you're up against:
The scary thing is that I have seen a team of two guys actually clean
up a
warehouse pile like that in 24 hours.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
3:21 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP
And thusly William Donzelli spake:
I have seen this too - not the warehouse cleanup part, but two guys who
could easily make a serious dent in his pile.. Stuff that I used a hand
truck to move, they carried it like it was styrofoam (boxes that each
contained about a dozen 1541's)!
Cheers,
Bryan
And here are photos so you can see what
you're up against:
The scary thing is that I have seen a team of two guys actually clean up a
warehouse pile like that in 24 hours.
4:16 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Donzelli" <aw288 at osfn.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP
9825 tape drive)
I would assume its easy if you are just throwing the contents into a few
trash bins out back. Moving the contents in an organized fashion without
breaking anything would be a bit impossible (hence the bet, and the break it
you bought it clause).
And here are
photos so you can see what you're up against:
The scary thing is that I have seen a team of two guys actually clean up a
warehouse pile like that in 24 hours.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
7:08 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:16:47 -0400
"Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Donzelli" <aw288 at osfn.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber
on HP 9825 tape drive)
I would assume its easy if you are just throwing the contents into a
few trash bins out back. Moving the contents in an organized fashion
without breaking anything would be a bit impossible (hence the bet,
and the break it you bought it clause).
The roughnecks wouldn't care if they broke it. The rules were that they
just had to have it all out by the time limit. heh
It's dangerous to post this kind of challange.
And here
are photos so you can see what you're up against:
The scary thing is that I have seen a team of two guys actually
clean up a warehouse pile like that in 24 hours.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
4:10 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words:
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
>
> You have 24 hours to unload every last IC and piece of paper in my
> warehouse. You are allowed one (and only one) helper of your choosing.
> You must take it all. Shelving is optional.
>
> If you are unable to have everything removed from my warehouse by the time
> the 24 hours is up, you must put everything back where you found it. You
> will also have to pay for anything you broke.
>
> I'm quite serious.
>
> Now, who's up for it?
I've been exercising as of late... Lost 5 lbs so far, and lowered my blood
pressure 15 points. (and now once in a great while, if my wife feels my
forearms, I might get a little... ummm... happyness, too!)
That said, I'd not be up to it, but gimme a year (and a forklift, and my
dad's 18-wheeler, and... and... and... and I'm still dreaming!!!
;-) )
And here are photos so you can see what you're up
against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
Thanks for those! Now my cow-orkers don't think I'm *nearly* as crazy as
they used to think... and it explains why you never found that Amiga
keyboard... ;-)
[[ Still battling a couple of Dragons at the edge of the world, but at
least I'm not dangling by 1 hand anymore... ;-) ]]
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me
zmerch at 30below.com. |
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
4:21 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
I would love to have that warehouse space right now and to have the book
collection out like you have it would be great!!! Had someone break into
one of my trailers (4-45 footers on lease) and they tossed books and
computer items all over the ground around the trailer. A warehouse would be
better.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:01 PM
Subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP
9825 tape drive)
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Ok, several people have expressed interest in
this "deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
anyone who thinks they can pull it off:
You have 24 hours to unload every last IC and piece of paper in my
warehouse. You are allowed one (and only one) helper of your choosing.
You must take it all. Shelving is optional.
If you are unable to have everything removed from my warehouse by the
time
the 24 hours is up, you must put everything back where you found it. You
will also have to pay for anything you broke.
I'm quite serious.
Now, who's up for it?
And here are photos so you can see what you're up against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage
mputers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at
http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
6:25 p.m.
New subject: Take My Warehouse, Please! (was Re: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drive)
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
And here are photos so you can see what you're up against:
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Warehouse/
I was actually pondering it until I noticed the coin-op cabinet on *top*
tier of the warehouse shelving :-)
It's more than even I could do. At least a week!!!
-brad
1:11 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On 7/8/05 12:35 PM, "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
wrote:
Ok, several people have expressed interest in this
"deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
anyone who thinks they can pull it off:
You have 24 hours to unload every last IC and piece of paper in my
warehouse. You are allowed one (and only one) helper of your choosing.
You must take it all. Shelving is optional.
If you are unable to have everything removed from my warehouse by the time
the 24 hours is up, you must put everything back where you found it. You
will also have to pay for anything you broke.
I'm quite serious.
Now, who's up for it?
Nonononono! You ship to *us* :)
1:28 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
Nonononono! You ship to *us* :)
Nonononono! You come and take it away. One helper; 24 hours.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
1:42 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
Nonononono! You ship to *us* :)
Nonononono! You come and take it away. One helper; 24 hours.
1:49 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Ade Vickers wrote:
Do you have a fork-lift truck available - or does the challenger have to
bring their own?
You can rent mine for $1,000/hr ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Nonononono! You ship to *us* :)
Nonononono! You come and take it away. One helper; 24 hours.
7:02 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:35:31 -0700 (PDT)
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Gary Sparkes wrote:
Ok, several people have expressed interest in this "deal". I've had
an open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave
Tony a break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has
the energy and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the
offer, open to anyone who thinks they can pull it off:
You have 24 hours to unload every last IC and piece of paper in my
warehouse. You are allowed one (and only one) helper of your
choosing. You must take it all. Shelving is optional.
If you are unable to have everything removed from my warehouse by the
time the 24 hours is up, you must put everything back where you found
it. You will also have to pay for anything you broke.
I'm quite serious.
Now, who's up for it?
Be careful, there may be a gold recycler lurking. Those sorts could
probably fit it all in TWO containers. And pack it all in VERY fast.
Oops, sorry, didn't see that. Give me your
address then. Make
sure you have 800 square feet of space in your backyard cleared
out. I figure we can stack the containers three high side by
side.
Expect delivery in about 6 weeks.
I can take the delivery, empty farmland behind - Let's get started!
7:12 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
Ok, several people have expressed interest in this
"deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
As you've never met me, what leads you to that conclusion?
-tony
8:30 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Ok, feel free to try then. The gauntlet has been thrown down.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Ok, several
people have expressed interest in this "deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
As you've never met me, what leads you to that conclusion? 
9:06 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
Ok, several people have expressed interest in this
"deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
As you've never met me, what leads you to that conclusion?
9 Jul
9 Jul
3:51 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Ok, feel free to try then. The gauntlet has been thrown down.
I didn't say it wasn't true, I asked why you came to that conclusion.
-tony
Ok,
several people have expressed interest in this "deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
As you've never met me, what leads you to that conclusion?
6:05 p.m.
New subject: Replace roller rubber on HP 9825 tape drivet
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, you know, Hans is a virile German lad, and as such he's got quite
the stamina, or so he tells me (and so he says the ladies tell him). Hans
has expressed interest in my bargain several times, and even he thinks it
would be quite a challenge for him. So if you think you are more fit than
Hans then I apologize for question your energy output capability.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
On Sat, 9 Jul
2005, Tony Duell wrote:
Ok, feel free to try then. The gauntlet has been thrown down.
I didn't say it wasn't true, I asked why you came to that conclusion. Ok,
several people have expressed interest in this "deal". I've had an
open offering of this deal to Hans for a few years now. I gave Tony a
break by allowing him 7 helpers, because I don't think he has the energy
and stamina that Hans does. At any rate, here is the offer, open to
As you've never met me, what leads you to that conclusion? 
7 Jul
7 Jul
1:33 a.m.
> Well, I finally got around to attempting to
re-spool this stupidly
> designed tape.
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
By driving the outside of the tape spools at a
constant speed
(that's what the belt and drive puck do), rather than turning the spools
themselves by their axles, that's exactly what you get.
I agree with Tony. It's a brilliant design in fact.
If the belts are dying at 1 to 5 years, OK, blame the
manufacturer. But if we're talking about 10+ year old tapes,
please -- replace them with new ones (tapes have a limited life)
or accept that they are vintage and stop whining. You're using
them well past their design life.
9:28 a.m.
At 10:33 PM 7/6/05 -0700, you wrote:
I agreee but the problem is that a lot of us would like to recover the
original HP software from the tapes since a lot of it virtually never
appeared on anything but the tapes. In addition, the programs on tape could
be "protected" and could not be copied. I know companies that run their
entire operation off of such commercailly produced protected tapes and are
willing to pay ANYTHING to keep them working since a failed tape will put
them out of business.
Joe
> Well, I
finally got around to attempting to re-spool this stupidly
> designed tape.
On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Tony Duell wrote:
By driving the outside of the tape spools at a
constant speed
(that's what the belt and drive puck do), rather than turning the spools
themselves by their axles, that's exactly what you get.
I agree with Tony. It's a brilliant design in fact.
If the belts are dying at 1 to 5 years, OK, blame the
manufacturer. But if we're talking about 10+ year old tapes,
please -- replace them with new ones (tapes have a limited life)
or accept that they are vintage and stop whining. You're using
them well past their design life.
3:43 p.m.
I agreee but the problem is that a lot of us would
like to recover the
original HP software from the tapes since a lot of it virtually never
Agreed. Of course the belt failing is really a media issue, and is not
strictly the same problem as being able to make a copy of the tape.
appeared on anything but the tapes. In addition, the
programs on tape could
be "protected" and could not be copied. I know companies that run their
entire operation off of such commercailly produced protected tapes and are
willing to pay ANYTHING to keep them working since a failed tape will put
them out of business.
Since the hardware details of the 9825, etc, tape drive and controller
are known, it should be not too hard to link the bus interface side of
that controller to another computer and read the tape at the bit level
(rememebr the controller is a very simple device that does little to the
bits coming off the tape). At which point it should be possible to copy
_anything_.
Of course this depends on the tape being still readable...
-tony
9:39 a.m.
At 12:10 AM 7/7/05 +0100, you wrote:
The really ingenous part is that the belt attempts to rotate the take up
spool about 10% faster then the other spool. That's what tightens up the
tape if it ever gets slack.
Good luck! I could never replace a belt and make it work :=/
Better yes, cheaper - no.
Sellam would need a container ship to move all of his collection! He
should ship it all here to Florida and avoid that nasty Atlantic crossing :-)
Joe
Well, I finally got around to attempting to re-spool this stupidly
designed tape.
It's actually avery ingenious design (it's the same design, basically, as
QIC tape cartridges). Remember you want a constant tape speed past the
head. By driving the outside of the tape spools at a constant speed
(that's what the belt and drive puck do), rather than turning the spools
themselves by their axles, that's exactly what you get. It avoids the
capstan, pinch roller, slipping clutches, etc, used in audio tape and
cassette recorders.
Your description sounds like a different tape than what I was dealing
with. The tape did not come off of either spool but was instead attached
onto both spools.
THere were several designs, sure...
At any rate, the stupid tensioning belt (whatever its called) broke on me.
Oh well, fuck that tape. I'll try to read it anyway (is the tensioning
belt necessary?) I also noticed numerous spots on the the tape where the
Of course the belt is necessary. It's how the tape is driven. You can
borrow one from another tape cartridge. oxide had flaked off, so any re-attempt may well
be futile. Whoever
Obviously you've lost data where that oxide is missing. You'll also have
problems becuase these drives use optincal BOT/EOT detection (there's a
small hole in the tape, a mirror as part of the cartridge housing, and a
bulb/photodetector in the drive). The system will think it's got to the
end of the tape if it finds a clear spot.
designed these tapes is a moron. I can't
imagine how impossibly expensive
it must've been to manufacture them.
See above. Tell you what, you see if you can come up with a better design.
I hate computers.
Feel free to send me all your collection.
-tony
3:46 p.m.
The really ingenous part is that the belt attempts to rotate the take up
spool about 10% faster then the other spool. That's what tightens up the
tape if it ever gets slack.
How does that work? All points on the belt move with the same speed, the
belt drives the outside of the 2 spools, so the surface speed of the
spools must be the same. That's the tape speed. I don't see how it can
move the tape faster on the takeup side.
-tony
8:53 p.m.
At 08:46 PM 7/7/05 +0100, you wrote:
I don't know but that's what HP claims in one of the computer manuals.
Maybe it doesn't work. That would match my experience!
Joe
The really ingenous part is that the belt attempts to rotate the take up
spool about 10% faster then the other spool. That's what tightens up the
tape if it ever gets slack.
How does that work? All points on the belt move with the same speed, the
belt drives the outside of the 2 spools, so the surface speed of the
spools must be the same. That's the tape speed. I don't see how it can
move the tape faster on the takeup side.
17 Jun
17 Jun
8:12 p.m.
I'm trying to repair the tape drive in an HP 9825. The roller has melted
(no surprise there). It seems like I could just get a bit of silicon
No suprise at all. All HP rollers do this in the end... I've got a 9845B
on the bench at the moment, and both internal tape drives need new rollers.
tubing or something that has the same diameter and
guage as the existing
roller.
Indeed you can.
The other solution is to use an O-ring, put into a groove on the metal
hub. IIRC, the 9825 tape drive (same mechanism as in the 9815, 9831,
9835, 9845, 9877, etc) has a somewhat complicated hub, carrying the
tachometer disk at the lower end, so it's not going to be easy to either
make a replacement or machine the groove in the existing hub..
I know this has been discussed before but I can't
find any specific
messages (by the way, the CC archive search is broken, Jay). Can anyone
Another place to look is on the MoHPC forum (http://www.hpmuseum.org/,
and follow the obvious links, or do a google search with
site:www.hpmuseum.org). This problem has certainly been discussed there.
provide any tips or guidance so I don't have to
re-learn mistakes already
made?
Any tips for cleaning off the existing material? Isopropyl alcohol? Any
Yes. That generally shifts it.
thoughts of using heatshrink tubing and applying
multiple layers until it
has the same thickness as the original roller?
That has certainly been done. Either by someone here, or by someone on MoHPC.
Thanks for any help. This will be a candidate for adding to the knowledge
base once I've successfully replaced the roller.
Would you be interested in the instructions for doing this (properly!) on
a 9810/9820 magnetic card reader? If so, I'll post/e-mail them to you.
-tony
8:30 p.m.
on 6/17/05 6:32 AM, Vintage Computer Festival at vcf at siconic.com wrote:
I'm trying to repair the tape drive in an HP 9825. The roller has melted
(no surprise there). It seems like I could just get a bit of silicon
tubing or something that has the same diameter and guage as the existing
roller.
I know this has been discussed before but I can't find any specific
messages (by the way, the CC archive search is broken, Jay). Can anyone
provide any tips or guidance so I don't have to re-learn mistakes already
made?
Any tips for cleaning off the existing material? Isopropyl alcohol? Any
thoughts of using heatshrink tubing and applying multiple layers until it
has the same thickness as the original roller?
Thanks for any help. This will be a candidate for adding to the knowledge
base once I've successfully replaced the roller.
I have an old Altos tape drive that uses DC300 tapes. I went to the local
hardware store and bought a rubber grommet with an inside diameter just
slightly smaller than the capstan on the drive, so it would fit nice and
tight. I then used fine sandpaper to reduce the outer diameter until it
matched the original. Slipped it on the capstan and successfully backed up
the hard drive on my ACS8000.
11:08 p.m.
At 04:32 AM 6/17/05 -0700, you wrote:
I'm trying to repair the tape drive in an HP 9825. The roller has melted
(no surprise there). It seems like I could just get a bit of silicon
tubing or something that has the same diameter and guage as the existing
roller.
I know this has been discussed before but I can't find any specific
messages (by the way, the CC archive search is broken, Jay). Can anyone
provide any tips or guidance so I don't have to re-learn mistakes already
made?
Any tips for cleaning off the existing material? Isopropyl alcohol?
That's what I've used.
Any
thoughts of using heatshrink tubing and applying
multiple layers until it
has the same thickness as the original roller?
There are two problems with HS. One is that it's usually been MOL
flattened and when you install it and shrink it in place the creases will
always cause two ripples (yes, even if it wasn't squished completely flat).
Sometimes the reader will still read and other times it won't due to the
erratic speed. I used two layers of HS and staggered the creases 90d apart,
that helps minimize the problem. The other problem is that the HS material
really isn't very good for a tape drive. It's too hard and doesn't have a
lot of traction and it also wears badly. I found the reader full of red
dust around only a few uses. I used red heat shrink, it seemed to work
better than the other types that I tried but YMMV. It works but it's far
from ideal. You have to be careful to shrink it evenly.
It has a tendency
to do all the shrinking on the side nearest the heat source and
that causes
one side to be thicker than the other. You have to shrink it slowly and
carefully and keep rotating it as you do.
If you try it let me know how it works for you.
Joe
Thanks for any help. This will be a candidate for adding to the knowledge
base once I've successfully replaced the roller.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
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