2 Jun
2012
2 Jun
'12
4:44 p.m.
On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 21:53:54 +0100 (BST), ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony
Duell) wrote.
And the wonderful instructions to run the supply off
an isolating
transformer, but if that's not possible to disconenct the maisn werth
wire in the 'scope mains plug and take great care. Err, yes. Having a
'scope floating at mains voltage is not the sort of thing I want to do...
For a
Philips computer, you would naturally use a Philips scope, they
have double insulation and no mains earth ;-)
/Jonas
3 Jun
3 Jun
2:57 p.m.
I just finished picking up the P800's. A quick overview of what's there:
- 3 x P859 (one looks like the board set is incomplete)
- 1 x P856/P857? (no type label, marked "defect" in black marker on top)
Aren't these supposed to have core memory? No core found inside.
- 1 x card cage with 6 cards. No idea what this is yet.
- 1 x P833 cassette drive enclosure with two drives fitted.
- 2 x P830-010 8"disk drive enclosure (looks like it can hold 2 drives). One
of these is new-in-box
- 2 x 8" floppy disk drive to fit the enclosures
- 3 x X1215 cartridge disk drive. Looks like it has an internal fixed
platter as well.
- 10 x 14" disc cartridge
- Some boxes with spare cards and parts
- Cables
- 16 Binders with manuals
I'm taking an inventory of the manuals first. Will post the list once it's
complete.
Cheers,
Camiel
3:33 p.m.
If my experience with P6000 is anything to go by (P6000 used some P800
hardware), I can give some details :
- the cassette drives are ECMA34. This means about 250K on each side of the
cassette. The logic wants +6VDC
I've seen 2 types, 1 where the lid comes halfway down, and where the casset
is mounted vertically, and 1 type where the cassette is inserted
horizontally. Connector- and signalwise, they are identical.
- all 8" floppy drives drives I've seen, use 115VAC for the motor. Check for
bad/dried out rubber cabling
/Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Camiel Vanderhoeven" <iamcamiel at gmail.com>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only'" <cctech at
classiccmp.org>;
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 8:57 PM
Subject: RE: Philips P800 family minis
I just finished picking up the P800's. A quick
overview of what's there:
- 3 x P859 (one looks like the board set is incomplete)
- 1 x P856/P857? (no type label, marked "defect" in black marker on top)
Aren't these supposed to have core memory? No core found inside.
- 1 x card cage with 6 cards. No idea what this is yet.
- 1 x P833 cassette drive enclosure with two drives fitted.
- 2 x P830-010 8"disk drive enclosure (looks like it can hold 2 drives).
One
of these is new-in-box
- 2 x 8" floppy disk drive to fit the enclosures
- 3 x X1215 cartridge disk drive. Looks like it has an internal fixed
platter as well.
- 10 x 14" disc cartridge
- Some boxes with spare cards and parts
- Cables
- 16 Binders with manuals
I'm taking an inventory of the manuals first. Will post the list once it's
complete.
Cheers,
Camiel
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4:34 p.m.
- 1 x P856/P857? (no type label, marked
"defect" in black marker on top)
Aren't these supposed to have core memory? No core found inside.
A minimal P856 has one PCB with the CPU, and one PCB with 32kx16 core on it.
P857 has 1 to 4 core PCB's.
Front panel, cardcage and powersupply are identical.
Jos
5:53 p.m.
I just finished picking up the P800's. A quick overview of what's there:
- 3 x P859 (one looks like the board set is incomplete)
Am I right in thinking that his is related to the P854?
- 1 x P856/P857? (no type label, marked
"defect" in black marker on top)
Aren't these supposed to have core memory? No core found inside.
I thought so. Maybe that's why it's defective :-(
FWIW, the P850 does use core memeory, but there are memory modules
(containg the core and drivers spearately fitted i nthe machine, it's not
on boards in the main crdcage. Is it possible you've missed the core in
your 856?
- 1 x card cage with 6 cards. No idea what this is
yet.
Maybe soem specail I/O unig. Philips appaer to ahve made a lot of
realtime I/O bords, ADCs, DACs, etc.
- 1 x P833 cassette drive enclosure with two drives
fitted.
- 2 x P830-010 8"disk drive enclosure (looks like it can hold 2 drives). One
of these is new-in-box
IF that's the unit I am thinki of, it does, indeed, take 2 drives. It's also
the only thing you've mentioned that I also own...
- 2 x 8" floppy disk drive to fit the enclosures
- 3 x X1215 cartridge disk drive. Looks like it has an internal fixed
platter as well.
- 10 x 14" disc cartridge
- Some boxes with spare cards and parts
- Cables
- 16 Binders with manuals
I'm taking an inventory of the manuals first. Will post the list once it's
complete.
Very nice haul!
-tony
4 Jun
4 Jun
7:08 a.m.
Hi Tony,
Yes, from what I've been able to glance from the manuals, the P859 is the
same as the P854, but build on large 19" rack sized cards (M-type cards)
rather than double eurocards (E-type cards)
(containg the
core and drivers spearately fitted i nthe machine, it's not on
boards in the main crdcage. Is it possible you've missed the core in your
856?
No, there's no space for it to be anywhere else but in the main cardcage.
The rest of the box is occupied by the power supplies. Deeper inspection has
revealed that this system also doesn't have a CPU fitted. I do have spare
cpu's though, and it looks like they might be able to use MOS memory, too.
I/O bords, ADCs, DACs, etc.
Turns out to be an expansion chassis that gives you space for 6 more cards.
Cheers,
Camiel
- 3 x P859
(one looks like the board set is incomplete)
Am I right in thinking that his is
related to the P854? - 1 x
P856/P857? (no type label, marked "defect" in black marker on
top) Aren't these supposed to have core memory? No core found inside.
I
thought so. Maybe that's why it's defective :-(
FWIW, the P850 does use core memeory, but there are memory modules - 1 x card
cage with 6 cards. No idea what this is yet.
Maybe soem specail I/O unig. Philips
appaer to ahve made a lot of realtime
2:59 p.m.
Hi Tony,
Yes, from what I've been able to glance from the manuals, the P859 is the
same as the P854, but build on large 19" rack sized cards (M-type cards)
rather than double eurocards (E-type cards)
Ah, right... I'd assuemd youy had a lot of double eurcards...
The P854 is certianly double Eurocards. I think the CPU set is 3 boards,
I would have to check what's on each board.
- 3 x
P859 (one looks like the board set is incomplete)
Am I right in thinking that his
is related to the P854? - 1 x card cage with 6 cards. No idea what this is
yet.
Maybe soem specail I/O unig. Philips appaer to ahve made a lot of realtime
3 Jun
3 Jun
4:37 p.m.
Here are the manuals. It looks like there are some duplicates. If you'd like
anything scanned, let me know, and I'll give it priority. My intention is to
scan all of it for contribution to bitsavers:
- Binder
o Reference manual P858, P859
o Field Support Manual Extended Control Panel P858
o Field support manual P859 Rack (M4R) & Power Supply
- Binder (2x)
o P851M Volume 1 Central Processor & Memories Technical Manual
o P851M Volume 2 Control Units Technical Manual
- Binder
o Field Support Manual Flexible Disc Control Unit (F1MZ)
P830-150 PTS6751-002 Equipment Shelf P830-010 (2x)
o Field Support Manual Flexible Disc Control Units F1MZA
P830-150 PTS6751-002 F1MZ06 PTS6751-510 Equipment Shelf P830-010
o Field Support Manual Flexible Disc Control Units MIFZ
PTS6751-103
- Binder
o Field Support Manual Flexible Disc Control Units F1MB
P830-050 PTS6849 F1MB06 PTS6849-501 Equipment Shelf P830-010
o Preliminary P800M Interface And Installation Manual (P852M,
P856M and P857M related)
- Binder
o Field Support Manual Flexible Disc Drive 1M P830-025 PTS6791
P4500-035 P300
o Service Manual Flexible Disc Drive P830-015 PTS6867 PTS8861
o Service Manual Flexible Disc Drive P3431 P830-005
o Service Manual Flexible Disc Drive P3431 P830-006
- Binder
o Preliminary P800M Interface and Installation Manual (P852M,
P856M and P857M related)
- Binder
o P855M MIOS Drivers Users Guide
o P851M Volume 2 Control Units Technical Manual
o Field Support Manual Control Unit For Serial Data Transfer
(SCUZ) P845-140 PTS6859
o Field Support Manual Synchronous/A-Synchronous Line Control
Unit (SALCU-Z) P845-160 PTS6857 PTS8857
o Field Support Manual Synchronous/A-Synchronous Line Control
Unit (SALCU-Z) P845-160 PTS6857
- Binder
o P856M/P857M CPU Service Manual
- Binder
o Field Support Manual A-Synchronous Medium Speed Data Line
Multiplexor (AMA8A) V24/V28 Interface P845-060
o Field Support Manual A-Synchronous Medium Speed Data Line
Multiplexor (AMA8C) TTL/Current Loop Interface P845-070
o Field Support Manual Asynchronous Medium Speed Line
Multiplexor Type Z (AMA4Z) P845-180 / Type V (AMA4V) PTS6741-001
o Field Support Manual Multiple Asynchronous Control Unit
(ASCU4Z) P845-145 PTS8853
- Binder
o Field Support Manual Central Processor Unit (P857EB) P854
PTS6925
- Binder
o Field Support Manual Central Processor Unit (CP1A) P853
o Field Support Manual P853/P854 Racks (6U6/6U12) & Power
Supplies
o Field Support Manual P843-500/PTS8890-001
o Field Support Manual Hand Held Control Panel
P843-500/PTS8890-001
o Field Support Manual Digital Extended Control Panel P843-510
o Field Support Manual P843-120 Input/Output Processor (IOPZR)
- Binder
o Field Support Manual Eprom/Prom 16K Words Memory P851M-010
(2x)
o Field Support Manual Reprogrammable Read Only Memory
P851M-006 (1K) P851M-007 (2K) P851M-008 (4K)
o Field Support Manual Dynamic Ram Memory 32K/64K (GMB1)
P851M-016:16K/16 P851M-017:32K/16 PTS8221
o Field Support Manual UPL Master Slave Memory 1M8
P4500-026/027 PTS8823
o Field Support Manual MOS Memory Module 128K16 (WMD-16/27MC)
P4000-24 PTS6773 P843-608
o Field Support Manual P4000-24 (WMD) MOS Memory Module 128K16
- Binder
o Memory Test Program BBRAM applicable to semiconductor
memories greater than 32KW
o Test Program for CPU P854,P858,P859,CP1BF Test Of Memory
Management Part REMMU1
o Test Program for CPU P854,P858,P859 Test Of Page Fault Test
Of Automatic Restart REPAF
o Test Program for CPU P854,P858,P859,CP1BF Test Of
Instruction Set CP57RE
o FPPE Test Program EFPP1 Applicable To Floating Point
Processor
o Test Program For CP1BF,CP2B Test Of Memory Management Part
MMU2B
o Test Program For CP1BF,CP2B Test Of Page Fault Test Of
Automatic Restart PAF2B
o Test Program Release Notice Number 245
- Binder
o Preliminary X1215/16 Cartridge Disk Drive Unit
- Binder "P800 Test Programs" with handwritten and typewritten test
descriptions
o Floppy
o Pertec MTT
o X/2/5
o PTP
o FHD
o X1210
o LP
o CPU + OPTIONS
o Cassette
o Datacom
o MIOS
Cheers,
Camiel
5 Jun
5 Jun
8:36 a.m.
I took one of the P859 boxes to check out. Power supplies turned out to be
good, so I put in one of the P859 CPU cards (CP7RA). The fluorescent display
briefly displayed "8.", followed by "000000". The expected output,
according
to the manual, is "ooFFFC", after the CPU has run a first self-test. I
swapped out the CPU with one of the other ones, and this one does give me
"ooFFFC". Hit the "0" button simultaneously with the "TEST"
button to run
the microdiagnostics, and got an indication that it failed on accessing
memory. I plugged in a memory board, and now it passes all self-tests
successfully (display "ooFF04"). So, at least this cpu and this memory board
appear to be OK so far. I can push the "IPL" button, and using "INST"
I can
step through the IPL code (the listing is provided in the manual, so you
have a good idea of what's going on).
Off course, I'd like to get it to boot something, and the only media I have
are the fixed platters in the three X1215's, and the 10 X1215 cartridges.
These are labeled as follows:
- DOM 210 & 211 for X1215 update P800 testprograms. 27-09-'84 R.v.d.Heyden.
- X1215 IPL 63C2 Testprograms update 85-12-18 DOM9A/02 IT/10, DOM9C/02 IT/11
Userid: SDAPRO s:$load (for running testprograms)
- SAG3 KERNEL 3 MULTIBASIC
- DOM_HARRY OLDREL old sources of release 01-10-82
- TRAINING 004 P.H.Kraaijeveld
- Service pack 1 "various programmes"
- DISK Unit 1
- TP00 Test Pack
- P800 (X1215)
- Philips (unlabeled)
The two cartridges labeled "testprograms" look promising; especially since
instructions on how to run them are included. Of course, I want to make sure
that the disk drive doesn't damage cartridges before I load these, so I'll
test the drives with an the unlabeled Philips cartridge first. I'm wondering
of the "TP00 Test Pack" is the "Servicing disk-pack" mentioned in the
service manual.
So, I'd really like to get at least one cartridge drive running, so I opened
one up. There was a bit of dust inside, but not too much, and the disk
compartment seems clean. However, I discovered a problem on the undersize of
the drive.
The drive belt is made out of cloth or nylon, covered in an orange substance
(probably rubber). The rubber comes off in flakes, and a lot of the gooey
stuff is stuck on the pulleys. All three drives suffer from this condition.
I need to find a replacement for these. The belts are a little over 1/2 inch
wide, and the length of the cloth as measured is 35-1/8 inches. I'm figuring
I need a belt with a 35 inch inside circumference. The service manual only
lists a Philips part number, no dimensions for the belt.
Any idea where to get replacement belts?
Cheers,
Camiel
3:39 p.m.
I took one of the P859 boxes to check out. Power supplies turned out to be
good, so I put in one of the P859 CPU cards (CP7RA). The fluorescent display
briefly displayed "8.", followed by "000000". The expected output,
according
to the manual, is "ooFFFC", after the CPU has run a first self-test. I
swapped out the CPU with one of the other ones, and this one does give me
"ooFFFC". Hit the "0" button simultaneously with the "TEST"
button to run
the microdiagnostics, and got an indication that it failed on accessing
memory. I plugged in a memory board, and now it passes all self-tests
successfully (display "ooFF04"). So, at least this cpu and this memory board
appear to be OK so far. I can push the "IPL" button, and using "INST"
I can
step through the IPL code (the listing is provided in the manual, so you
have a good idea of what's going on).
Nest job is to fix that defective CPU. I wonder if it's doing anything at
all. You might find it's an easy fix in the clock generator or something.
Off course, I'd like to get it to boot something, and the only media I have
are the fixed platters in the three X1215's, and the 10 X1215 cartridges.
If these drives are like other fixed/removable drives I've soprked on,
you can't use the fixed platter unless there's a removable pack in the
drive too.
test the drives with an the unlabeled Philips
cartridge first. I'm wondering
of the "TP00 Test Pack" is the "Servicing disk-pack" mentioned in
the
service manual.
It might well be. I assume this is the head alignemt 'CE' pack. If so, DO
NOT WRITE TO IT!
So, I'd really like to get at least one cartridge drive running, so I opened
one up. There was a bit of dust inside, but not too much, and the disk
compartment seems clean. However, I discovered a problem on the undersize of
the drive.
The drive belt is made out of cloth or nylon, covered in an orange substance
(probably rubber). The rubber comes off in flakes, and a lot of the gooey
stuff is stuck on the pulleys. All three drives suffer from this condition.
I need to find a replacement for these. The belts are a little over 1/2 inch
wide, and the length of the cloth as measured is 35-1/8 inches. I'm figuring
I need a belt with a 35 inch inside circumference. The service manual only
lists a Philips part number, no dimensions for the belt.
Any idea where to get replacement belts?
I assume this is a flat belt, like a tape, not a V-belt.
Belts shoudl eb easy to get, but msot of the time they are not!. I don't
know of a supplier, but I wonded if a google search would help
One thing.. Philips parts are very unlikely to be a sensible number of
inches. They would use metric measurements almost exclusively (to the
extent that their '19"' panels are not qwuite the same as, say, DEC ones.
35.125 inches is 892.175mm I wonder if it actually should be 890mm or
something like that. Or perhaps 280mm (or 284mm) diameter.
-tony
Cheers,
Camiel
4430
days inactive
4433
days old
9 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
iamcamiel＠gmail.com -
jdr_use＠bluewin.ch -
jonas＠otter.se -
nico＠farumdata.dk