22 Jan
2016
22 Jan
'16
12:52 p.m.
Hello from a newbie to the list
I've just acquired 2 HP 382's with expanders. Have not had the time to look
inside them yet.
End goal is to set one up as an instrument controller i.e. using the built
in GPIB and potentially a 2nd GPIB card.
One thing I do not have is a display, keyboard and mouse.
A few question
Is there a PS/2 or USB (yea long shot) adapter for the HPIL interface ?
Does someone have a keyboard/mouse they a not beholding to, or know
where there maybe one ?
Once I get the opened up and take an inventory, anything I should look out
for be trying to power one of them up ?
Can one boot to a terminal on the RS-232 port. Until I find a kbd/mouse ?
What would be optimum version of HP-UX to run on them ?
-pete
23 Jan
23 Jan
6:43 a.m.
On 2016-01-22 4:52 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
Hello from a newbie to the list
I've just acquired 2 HP 382's with expanders. Have not had the time to look
inside them yet.
End goal is to set one up as an instrument controller i.e. using the built
in GPIB and potentially a 2nd GPIB card.
One thing I do not have is a display, keyboard and mouse.
A few question
Is there a PS/2 or USB (yea long shot) adapter for the HPIL interface ?
Does someone have a keyboard/mouse they a not beholding to, or know
where there maybe one ?
Once I get the opened up and take an inventory, anything I should look out
for be trying to power one of them up ?
Can one boot to a terminal on the RS-232 port. Until I find a kbd/mouse ?
What would be optimum version of HP-UX to run on them ?
-pete
Wow great find, those are nice 9000s, I have been looking for one with
ethernet and SCSI. You will find lots of documentation for them at
hpmuseum.net. It would seem that the display interface is standard VGA,
however as you discovered the keyboard is HP-HIL.
HP did make a PS/2 adapter module, however it would seem they are
extremely rare, I would like to get one too. I have also though of
building my own, the usual interface is a custom chip made by HP that
handles most of the protocol, that is coupled with a National
Semiconductor COP series microcontroller using the microwire interface,
I have some of these obtained from other HIL devices, the one that is
the most promising is from an ID module it has all of the HIL hardware
in it and a ROM-less COP420 so all of its code is in an external EPROM
making it easy to alter. There is documentation available for the
HP-HIL protocol.
There are HP-HIL keyboards and mice available on eBay but they are not
cheap.
The 382 apparently has space for internal disks so you may be in luck
and find it still has an OS installed, the 382 owner guide I found says
the minimum level of HP-UX is 8.0, I would guess that at some point HP
stopped supporting the 68K machines but I am not sure when that happened.
I looked through the users guide and there is no mention of using a
serial console, however is there is an OS installed it is possible that
a serial port could be set up as a workstation.
Paul.
9:42 a.m.
As already mentioned, you should start off looking at
http://www.hpmuseum.net for documentation and software for the HP
9000/382
I obtained an .ISO image of the HP-UX 9.0 installation CD-ROM there
along with HP BASIC 6.2 images, both stand alone BASIC and BASIC/UX.
There are currently no direct download links for those images. Jon
Johnston there has been great about responding to requests for images
if you send him an email.
The SCSI hard drive in my 9000/382 was dead when I received it. It was
fairly straight forward to install HP-UX 9.0 from scratch on a
replacement hard drive from a SCSI CD-ROM. I forget how much memory
mine had when I received. I found some additional memory to install
and that helped with performance running HP-UX 9.0. I don't think I
ever got around to trying to use HP BASIC to control any GPIB
interface test equipment yet.
8:36 p.m.
Some pictures of the inside of 382 #1
http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5159
Sadly no HD to boot
I will try to bring home the other two.
-pete
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
As already mentioned, you should start off looking at
http://www.hpmuseum.net for documentation and software for the HP
9000/382
I obtained an .ISO image of the HP-UX 9.0 installation CD-ROM there
along with HP BASIC 6.2 images, both stand alone BASIC and BASIC/UX.
There are currently no direct download links for those images. Jon
Johnston there has been great about responding to requests for images
if you send him an email.
The SCSI hard drive in my 9000/382 was dead when I received it. It was
fairly straight forward to install HP-UX 9.0 from scratch on a
replacement hard drive from a SCSI CD-ROM. I forget how much memory
mine had when I received. I found some additional memory to install
and that helped with performance running HP-UX 9.0. I don't think I
ever got around to trying to use HP BASIC to control any GPIB
interface test equipment yet.
24 Jan
24 Jan
4:18 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Pete Lancashire
Verzonden: zondag 24 januari 2016 5:37
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: HP 9000/382 Questions
Some pictures of the inside of 382 #1
http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5159
Sadly no HD to boot
I will try to bring home the other two.
-pete
Pete,
The VGA is IIRC SOG (Sync On Green) not all monitors support this.
If you have a HP-IB/GP-IB interface for a PC you can use Ansgars HPDrive to boot.
It's found at www.hp9845.net .
Also the drives used in the 9000/38X series are single ended scsi of external Fast HP-IB.
If you download the HP Basic 51. or 6.2 from the HP Computer Museum website you can boot
of a the internal floppy drive and at least you know if the basics work.
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=27
Even without a keyboard this should boot and come to the start screen.
-Rik
7:52 a.m.
On Jan 24, 2016, at 4:18 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
The VGA is IIRC SOG (Sync On Green) not all monitors
support this.
If you have a HP-IB/GP-IB interface for a PC you can use Ansgars HPDrive to boot.
It's found at www.hp9845.net .
I have an HP 9000/360 and I don't have an HP-HIL keyboard or sync on green monitor
either. I was able to get a console through the built-in RS-232 port and made it boot
NetBSD over ethernet using a Linux box as a server.
--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com
11:12 a.m.
If I read the doc's correctly I only have the medium resolution system
board, pity the graphics where not a daughter board.
No problem with building a sync separator.
My goal list to use the thing as a GPIB controller. Have quite a few HP
diagnostics that are on tape (and will need to get a
tape drive) that make extensive use of HP Basic.
Final use is as a bench controller for the same instruments
-pete
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Chris Osborn <fozztexx at fozztexx.com> wrote:
On Jan 24, 2016, at 4:18 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
The VGA is IIRC SOG (Sync On Green) not all
monitors support this.
If you have a HP-IB/GP-IB interface for a PC you can use Ansgars HPDrive
to boot.
It's found at www.hp9845.net .
I have an HP 9000/360 and I don't have an HP-HIL keyboard or sync on green
monitor either. I was able to get a console through the built-in RS-232
port and made it boot NetBSD over ethernet using a Linux box as a server.
--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com
12:59 p.m.
If I read the doc's correctly I only have the
medium resolution system board, pity
the graphics where not a daughter board.
No problem with building a sync separator.
My goal list to use the thing as a GPIB controller. Have quite a few HP
diagnostics that are on tape (and will need to get a tape drive) that make
extensive use of HP Basic.
Final use is as a bench controller for the same instruments
-pete
What kind of tapes do you have?
DC100A (HP 98200A) are in most cases not compatible with the 9000/200-300 series because
they contain HP 9825A?B programs or 9835/45 programs.
The DC300 like quick tapes like the HP 88140SC / 150 Ft. or HP 88140LC / 600 Ft. 16 track
tapes uses the HP 9144A or compatible drives.
For HP-UX systems HP used DAT tapes in the 90'th but I'm not sure if they also
used them for instrument verification and test programs.
The programs I have are all on disc.
Before you put your old quick tapes in a drive you need to check if the drive belt is in
good condition, if the tension is to low it will ruin the tape.
Drive belts can be retentioned by putting them in hot water >70C the belt will shrink
then and go back to the right tension.
If you use the search function on the site you can find a mail from Christian Corti
describing the procedure.
-Rik
1:23 p.m.
A picture of an example tape
http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5246
-pete
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
If I read the doc's correctly I only have the
medium resolution system
board, pity
the graphics where not a daughter board.
No problem with building a sync separator.
My goal list to use the thing as a GPIB controller. Have quite a few HP
diagnostics that are on tape (and will need to get a tape drive) that
make
extensive use of HP Basic.
Final use is as a bench controller for the same instruments
-pete
What kind of tapes do you have?
DC100A (HP 98200A) are in most cases not compatible with the 9000/200-300
series because they contain HP 9825A?B programs or 9835/45 programs.
The DC300 like quick tapes like the HP 88140SC / 150 Ft. or HP 88140LC /
600 Ft. 16 track tapes uses the HP 9144A or compatible drives.
For HP-UX systems HP used DAT tapes in the 90'th but I'm not sure if they
also used them for instrument verification and test programs.
The programs I have are all on disc.
Before you put your old quick tapes in a drive you need to check if the
drive belt is in good condition, if the tension is to low it will ruin the
tape.
Drive belts can be retentioned by putting them in hot water >70C the belt
will shrink then and go back to the right tension.
If you use the search function on the site you can find a mail from
Christian Corti describing the procedure.
-Rik
25 Jan
25 Jan
7:29 a.m.
A picture of an example tape
http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5246
-pete
Pete,
Those are DC100A tapes used in the HP 98X5 series computers.
The programs are not compatible with the 9000/300 series.
I couldn't see the tape number on the label but I think it's a 9825A/B tape
written in HPL.
Instrument software on this kind of tapes I've seen was written for the 9825.
You'll need a HP 9825 to read this tapes and copy them to a disk (8" HP 9895A).
The tapes are very fragile, 90% the belts are stuck to the tape.
And you need to warm the tape to about 50-60C to get the belt from the tape without
peeling of the magnetic layer.
After that the belt needs to be reconditioned (see my earlier mail) and the tape may be
needed to be baked (several hours in an oven at 55-60C).
After that you have only a few (1-6) passes to read the tape, before it becomes badly
readable.
Replacing and removing the drive belt will need some practicing (I've done it).
When the programs are copied to disk it's possible to read them on a HP 9000/200
series computer with HPL for the 200 series.
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=169
Which will not run on the 9000/382 or other processors higher/later than the 68010.
-Rik
10:55 a.m.
So sounds like
1. get a 9825 (or find someone that has one locally)
Reason for a 9825 is it is the only one with a tape drive that will read
the tapes
Is this correct ?
2. prep the tape(s)
3. copy the data from the tape to a 9895A -- any ever do a emulator ?
4. read the data/run with a 68010 based 200 series .. will the original 300
work ?
I've not taken a DC-100 apart but have done many DC-300's I've got a box of
DC-100's that I don't care what is on them, I'll find it and use one of the
tapes as a test case.
Looks like I've got a long ways to go ....
-pete
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 7:29 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix at xs4all.nl> wrote:
A picture of an example tape
http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=5246
-pete
Pete,
Those are DC100A tapes used in the HP 98X5 series computers.
The programs are not compatible with the 9000/300 series.
I couldn't see the tape number on the label but I think it's a 9825A/B
tape written in HPL.
Instrument software on this kind of tapes I've seen was written for the
9825.
You'll need a HP 9825 to read this tapes and copy them to a disk (8" HP
9895A).
The tapes are very fragile, 90% the belts are stuck to the tape.
And you need to warm the tape to about 50-60C to get the belt from the
tape without peeling of the magnetic layer.
After that the belt needs to be reconditioned (see my earlier mail) and
the tape may be needed to be baked (several hours in an oven at 55-60C).
After that you have only a few (1-6) passes to read the tape, before it
becomes badly readable.
Replacing and removing the drive belt will need some practicing (I've done
it).
When the programs are copied to disk it's possible to read them on a HP
9000/200 series computer with HPL for the 200 series.
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=169
Which will not run on the 9000/382 or other processors higher/later than
the 68010.
-Rik
1:54 p.m.
On 2016-01-25 2:55 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
So sounds like
1. get a 9825 (or find someone that has one locally)
Reason for a 9825 is it is the only one with a tape drive that will read
the tapes
Is this correct ?
2. prep the tape(s)
3. copy the data from the tape to a 9895A -- any ever do a emulator ?
4. read the data/run with a 68010 based 200 series .. will the original 300
work ?
I've not taken a DC-100 apart but have done many DC-300's I've got a box of
DC-100's that I don't care what is on them, I'll find it and use one of the
tapes as a test case.
Looks like I've got a long ways to go ....
-pete
These tapes where used in a number of machine such as 9825, 9831, 9835,
9845, 9915, and 85A&B. There was also at least 1 external tape drive
that used these tapes not to mention DEC made a drive for them as well.
If you hope to recover the data off the tapes you would probably need
access to the system they where written on as the data format is not the
same on all machines.
I can't think of any of the 68K 9000s that used DC100A tapes by then
almost everything was diskettes 8", 5.25, and 3.5 where all supported
however some of the early software for 200s was quite restricted in the
formats supported.
The DC100A has the same arrangement inside as a DC-300 just smaller. I
have had some success replacing rotted drive belts with PLASTIBANDS.
Paul.
2:22 p.m.
These tapes where used in a number of machine such as
9825, 9831, 9835, 9845,
9915, and 85A&B. There was also at least 1 external tape drive that used these
tapes not to mention DEC made a drive for them as well.
If you hope to recover the data off the tapes you would probably need access to
the system they where written on as the data format is not the same on all
machines.
I can't think of any of the 68K 9000s that used DC100A tapes by then almost
everything was diskettes 8", 5.25, and 3.5 where all supported however some of
the early software for 200s was quite restricted in the formats supported.
The DC100A has the same arrangement inside as a DC-300 just smaller. I have
had some success replacing rotted drive belts with PLASTIBANDS.
Paul.
Aagh, I forgot about the HP85 some instrument programs where written for those.
So you have to check the part numbers of the tape and look in the service manuals to see
where the tapes are for.
The 9875A and 9877A are external tape drives for the DC100A tapes almost unobtainable like
the HP 9831A which is also very rare (I know just 3 including mine) .
The only 9875A and 9877A I know are at both the HP Museums.
-Rik
26 Jan
26 Jan
2 a.m.
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Rik Bos wrote:
> These tapes where used in a number of machine such
as 9825, 9831, 9835, 9845,
> 9915, and 85A&B. There was also at least 1 external tape drive that used these
[...]
Aagh, I forgot about the HP85 some instrument programs
where written for
[...]
For me, the most obvious machines would be the HP264x terminals ;-)
There are numerous software packaged on DC100 cartridges meant to be
read/used with e.g. a HP2645 terminal attached to a HP system (HP1000 or
HP3000)
Christian
17 Mar
17 Mar
7:44 a.m.
An update
I acquired another 9000/382 with a hard drive. It booting into VUE and
eventually found out it is running HP-UX 9.10, As usual no root password.
I tried the <ctrl>-\ "hack" while a fsck was taking place and on the 2nd
try it dropped me into single user mode. From there the rest was easy
https://goo.gl/photos/rDN8bhjVxoeSCw7k8
Looks like a clean install of 9.10 with nothing else.
I'll do a dump of the drive and post the image when I get a chance, lots of
other projects going on.
Now to come up to speed on HP-UX and get it on the network.
Thanks to Frank Slootweg via comp.sys.hp.hpux for the keyboard characters
to try.
-pete
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 2:00 AM, Christian Corti <
cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, Rik Bos wrote:
These tapes where used in a number of machine
such as 9825, 9831, 9835,
9845,
9915, and 85A&B. There was also at least 1 external tape drive that
used these
[...] Aagh, I forgot about the HP85 some instrument
programs where written for
[...]
For me, the most obvious machines would be the HP264x terminals ;-)
There are numerous software packaged on DC100 cartridges meant to be
read/used with e.g. a HP2645 terminal attached to a HP system (HP1000 or
HP3000)
Christian
25 Jan
25 Jan
6:10 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Paul Berger <phb.hfx at gmail.com> wrote:
These tapes where used in a number of machine such as
9825, 9831, 9835,
9845, 9915, and 85A&B.
And the HP 9815 desktop calculator, 2644 terminal, 4951A protocol
analyzer. Probably other products as well.
There was also at least 1 external tape drive that
used these tapes
HP 9875 dual, 9877 quad
not to mention DEC made a drive for them as well.
The DEC TU58 drive uses the same physical cartridge (DC100), but can't
read HP formatted tapes, or vice versa.
7:52 p.m.
4951A protocol analyzer
My luck, last fall I could of had 4 of them for free. :-) But dont need a
drive.
I've been asking a few T&M friends and I maybe able to get the
test/calibration software in newer formats and in HP Basic. That would
eliminate the whole issue.
Sounds like time to make a want list to use for searching.
Got to put the toy away for now, hopefully in a month will be able to get
back to getting one of these guys going.
Thanks for all the help so far... will order a 68pin to 50pin SCSI drive
adapter and hope does not have the same issue the 16700A logic analyzers
have, no drive > 4 (or 8GB cant remember).
-pete
-pete
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Paul Berger
<phb.hfx at gmail.com> wrote:
These tapes where used in a number of machine
such as 9825, 9831, 9835,
9845, 9915, and 85A&B.
And the HP 9815 desktop calculator, 2644 terminal, 4951A protocol
analyzer. Probably other products as well.
There was also at least 1 external tape drive
that
used these tapes
HP 9875 dual, 9877 quad
not to mention DEC made a drive for them as well.
The DEC TU58 drive uses the same physical cartridge (DC100), but can't
read HP formatted tapes, or vice versa.
2:16 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Pete Lancashire
Verzonden: maandag 25 januari 2016 19:55
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: HP 9000/382 Questions
So sounds like
1. get a 9825 (or find someone that has one locally)
Reason for a 9825 is it is the only one with a tape drive that will read the tapes
Is this correct ?
2. prep the tape(s)
3. copy the data from the tape to a 9895A -- any ever do a emulator ?
4. read the data/run with a 68010 based 200 series .. will the original 300 work ?
I've not taken a DC-100 apart but have done many DC-300's I've got a box of
DC-100's that I don't care what is on them, I'll find it and use one of the
tapes as
a test case.
Looks like I've got a long ways to go ....
-pete
Yes and no, you'll need a 9825B with the 98228A 9895/9885 Flexible Disc ROM an
98034A/B HP-IB Interface and of cause a HP 9895A Disc drive ;)
And there will be a problem if there is a binary file on the tape, at the moment it is
impossible to copy them, the 9825 is missing the tools to copy them.
As far as I know an emulator isn't available (yet ?).
For which instrument do you have the tapes, I've some disc's for the HP 8566B and
68B SA's for RMB systems (HP 9000/200-300 Rocky Mountain Basic).
For some other equipment I should also have some files.
-Rik
2591
days inactive
3011
days old
17 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
fozztexx＠fozztexx.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
pete＠petelancashire.com -
phb.hfx＠gmail.com -
spacewar＠gmail.com