On Apr 1, 19:31, Geoff Reed wrote: come As Tony pointed out, it can't properly be a "DB" anything, since a standard 9-pin shell is DE. Just because some people commonly refer to it as DB doesn't mean it's correct, after all lots of people call the standard 9-pin shell a DB. Amp, for example, refer to their entire standard series as "DB" but that's not what most other manufacturers do. McMurdo refer to the type used for VGA as HDE15 (and the next sizes up as HDA26 and HDB44) which seems much more likely to be correct. And I wouldn't particularly believe BlackBox, they're just one reseller. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York