28 May
1999
28 May
'99
5:37 p.m.
Look what those wacky college students are up to now:
http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
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Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
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[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
29 May
29 May
1:27 a.m.
On Fri, 28 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Look what those wacky college students are up to now:
http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html
This is fairly old. As the site says, it was done for the ENIAC 50th
anniversary. I would like to add that IMHO, even if it is similar to an
ENIAC in architecture, it is in no way an ENIAC. If someone gave
me an ENIAC-on-a-chip, I would not feel that I have anything like an
ENIAC. Consider that while the ENIAC was operated with knobs and switches,
this chip is operated by raising certain lines via a PC interface. Now,
that sounds like a math coprocessor to me :)
--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power
7:59 a.m.
On Sat, 29 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Yeah, but you're still programming an ENIAC. The interface is just more
modern. If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and
switches" interface to settle your neurosis.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
Look what those wacky college students are up to
now:
http://www.ee.upenn.edu/~jan/eniacproj.html
This is fairly old. As the site says, it was done for the ENIAC 50th
anniversary. I would like to add that IMHO, even if it is similar to an
ENIAC in architecture, it is in no way an ENIAC. If someone gave
me an ENIAC-on-a-chip, I would not feel that I have anything like an
ENIAC. Consider that while the ENIAC was operated with knobs and switches,
this chip is operated by raising certain lines via a PC interface. Now,
that sounds like a math coprocessor to me :)
7:44 a.m.
On Sat, 29 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Yeah, but you're still programming an ENIAC. The
interface is just more
modern. If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and
switches" interface to settle your neurosis.
Maybe you don't see what I'm saying (and I don't know any reason for
insults, either). Let's say you're a radio collector. You want a certain
old radio, which you would never be able to own. Somebody gives you a
modern radio with the same circuit layout but the old components have been
replaced by modern ones. Such a radio could fit on a circuit board 2"
sq. if done with surface mount. It works the same way. Would you take this
radio, and say 'hell, if I want, I can add the old-fashioned knobs later'?
I doubt it. Now, granted, this is the only kind of ENIAC anyone will ever
be able to own, but I'm dubious about how similar the experience would be
to running a real ENIAC.
--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power
9:15 a.m.
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11:08 a.m.
I'll accept that I'm programming an ENIAC when
I can stick my voltmeter
on it and measure the 500V (or whatever) HT+ (B+ across the Pond). When I
can clip my 'scope on various testpoints. When I can warm my hands over
all those nice valves :-)
-tony
How about this? We'll call it an Eniac hardware emulator. It's not the
original hardware, but it's a workalike.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
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11:39 a.m.
I'll accept that I'm programming an ENIAC when
I can stick my voltmeter
on it and measure the 500V (or whatever) HT+ (B+ across the Pond). When I
can clip my 'scope on various testpoints. When I can warm my hands over
all those nice valves :-)
In one of my classes, we just had a guest speaker from Tera (the local super-
computer firm). He explained that this is exactly what is _not_ possible
with their machines, because the circuitry is so dense that testing like
that would disturb it. Tera's solution is very interesting but somehow I
suspect you would not approve.
The solution, BTW, is to use a method called SCAN. I assume that's an
acronym but I'm not sure. Their machines contain blocks of combinatorial
(stateless) logic separated by latches for pipelining purposes. The
latches can be "commutated" so that they connect to each other like a giant
shift register, rather than acting in parallel. Then the appropriate values
can be fed in and the combinatorial logic exercised for one clock tick.
(The point is to test the combinatorial logic and hope that the latches and
other test circuitry are working normally.)
There are many refinements, of course, but that's the essence of it. (There
are mulltiple SCAN paths; there are un-commutable latches to prevent test
data from being sent to the disk controller and erasing the filesystem and
other such calamities; there are specialized test controllers in every
machine.)
As a bonus the test circuitry is also used to boot the machine (by loading a
program into the cache, etc.) In that sense execution is the ultimate test
of the circuitry. :)
The speaker also noted that Tera's method is completely superior to Intel's.
-- Derek
1:08 p.m.
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5:05 p.m.
There are various systems like this. The most common
(in my limited
experience) being a JTAG boundary scan. Basically, some LSI devices have
The system Tera uses is quite similar, except that it extends to the interal
circuitry of the chip rather than just the boundary (pins) of the chip.
-- Derek
9:28 a.m.
On Sat, 29 May 1999, Max Eskin wrote:
Maybe you don't see what I'm saying (and I
don't know any reason for
insults, either). Let's say you're a radio collector. You want a certain
old radio, which you would never be able to own. Somebody gives you a
modern radio with the same circuit layout but the old components have been
replaced by modern ones. Such a radio could fit on a circuit board 2"
sq. if done with surface mount. It works the same way. Would you take this
radio, and say 'hell, if I want, I can add the old-fashioned knobs later'?
I doubt it. Now, granted, this is the only kind of ENIAC anyone will ever
be able to own, but I'm dubious about how similar the experience would be
to running a real ENIAC.
Well, its not like you're buying an ENIAC replica from the pages of the
Sunday morning newspaper inserts. This was a mental exercise for the most
part, and nobody is forcing you to buy it or use it. If you don't like it
then why not build an actual ENIAC replica, replete with knobs and
switches?
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
9:06 a.m.
On Sat, 29 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Well, its not like you're buying an ENIAC replica
from the pages of the
Sunday morning newspaper inserts. This was a mental exercise for the most
part, and nobody is forcing you to buy it or use it. If you don't like it
then why not build an actual ENIAC replica, replete with knobs and
switches?
*Sigh*
This is how flamewars start :)
--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
http://scivault.hypermart.net: Ignorance is Impotence - Knowledge is Power
3 p.m.
Upon the date 03:44 PM 5/29/99 -0400, Max Eskin said something like:
On Sat, 29 May 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Amen, Max. The only thing one would probably get out of that 'radio' would
be a work-alike thing. Exactly the same for that ENIAC-on-a-chip.
Work-alike, probably, but no where near the same as having either the real
thing or a functional replica with tubes/relays/other fun parts.
Regards, Chris, an old radio collector (or rather, collector of old radios :)
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa
Yeah, but you're still programming an ENIAC.
The interface is just more
modern. If you're so indignant you can always build a "knobs and
switches" interface to settle your neurosis.
Maybe you don't see what I'm saying (and I don't know any reason for
insults, either). Let's say you're a radio collector. You want a certain
old radio, which you would never be able to own. Somebody gives you a
modern radio with the same circuit layout but the old components have been
replaced by modern ones. Such a radio could fit on a circuit board 2"
sq. if done with surface mount. It works the same way. Would you take this
radio, and say 'hell, if I want, I can add the old-fashioned knobs later'?
I doubt it. Now, granted, this is the only kind of ENIAC anyone will ever
be able to own, but I'm dubious about how similar the experience would be
to running a real ENIAC. 
11:57 a.m.
New subject: HP2100S musings
Hi,
I was poking around inside the HP2100S mini that I acquired
recently, and thought some of you might be interested
in what's in there. No photos yet, but I expect to have
some soon.
It appears to me that the computer's backplane is divided
into three sections. Two sections are in the front half
of the chassis. The left section is coded with a blue
color, and I think this is where the CPU itself is. There
are nine circuit cards plugged in, with the designations
marked A1 through A8 (going left to right), the ninth
card isn't marked. The A2 card has a clip-on piece of
plastic marked "FP ROM 12901A installed".
To the right of the blue section is a section color-coded
in red. This appears to the the Input/Output option
card section. Slots 10-12 are empty, and starting with
slot 13 the card designators are as follows:
+8 BIT DUP REG
DISC INTF' 2 (13210A)
DISC INTF' 1 (13210A)
16 BIT G.P.O.
+16 BIT DUP REG
RELAY OUT REG
JUMPER
GRD TRUE IN/OUT
GRD TRUE CONTR
BUSS DATA
BUSS CONTRL
JUMPER
Some of these are pretty obvious about their functions,
but does anybody have any idea what the "DUP REG" functions
are?
The "BUSS DATA" and "BUSS CONTRL" cards have headers on them
that I believe are for attaching a HP peripheral box. This
system came out of a HP 8500 Network Analyzer product, and one
of the peripheral boxes I got looks to have the other end
of the BUSS stuff on it. The docs that I got with the system
indicate that the graphics terminal and a printer are
attached through the peripheral box.
The third main section is in the rear on the left
hand side. The power supply occupies the quadrant on
the right hand, rear side of the machine.
The rear card section is color coded black, and from left
to right the card fill is as follows:
XYD \
- Connected on top with 02100 60052 jumper header
SSA /
SSA \
- Connected on top with 02100 60054 jumper header
XYD /
ID (16K) --| --| These four are interconnected as shown
| | along the top using ribbon cables.
IDL | --|
| |
DC --| |
| |
ID (16K) --| --|
XYD \
- Connected on top with 02100 60052 jumper header
SSA /
SSA \
- Connected on top with 02100 60054 jumper header
XYD /
The "XYD" boards are HP part number 02100-60053, and appear
to me to have mag core driver circuitry.
The "SSA" boards look to be the core memory boards. The one
I examined had a jumper installed in the "8K" position (the
other possible position was "4K").
I'm speculating that the black section is the memory subsystem
for the machine, and that the ID & DC boards have something
to do with memory addressing, decoding, etc.
That's all the info. I have right now. Doesn't look to
me like there are any terminal I/O type interfaces in
the box. I haven't had the nerve yet to power it up
to see if it does anything. If any of ya'll have any info.
about this machine, I'd appreciate a shout.
Regards,
Alex
Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page
http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm
9338
days inactive
9339
days old
12 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
aknight＠mindspring.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cfandt＠netsync.net -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
dpeschel＠u.washington.edu -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
max82＠surfree.com