cctalk Digest, Vol 75, Issue 17 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

13 Nov 2009

way somewhere.
...

 You, sir, are blessed with being in the right part of the country to get 
 interesting gear cheap.  The best I can hope for around here is old VCRs and 
 last year's Pentiums.  And yes, I DO know how to find st Sent via BlackBerry by
AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-request at classiccmp.org
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:00:02 
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 75, Issue 17

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope (Peter C. Wallace)
   2. Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope (William Donzelli)
   3. Re: GRI (William Donzelli)
   4. Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope (CRC)
   5. Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope (Chuck Guzis)
   6. Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope (Dave McGuire)
   7. Re: GRI (Curt @ Atari Museum)
   8. Re: apple documentary and huge apple collection (Brian Lanning)
   9. Re: GRI (Chuck Guzis)
  10. Re: GRI (Al Kossow)
  11. Re: GRI (Al Kossow)
  12. Re: GRI (William Donzelli)
  13. Re: GRI (Curt @ Atari Museum)
  14. Re: apple documentary and huge apple collection (Teo Zenios)
  15. Re: Walkthrough of a small datacenter 1992 (jim s)
  16. Compupro 8/16 system avail. in San Francisco Bay area
      (Dave Dunfield)
  17. PET, Sinclair, Unitron (AppleII clone), TI-99/4As avail near
      Toronto. (Dave Dunfield)
  18. Re: PET, Sinclair, Unitron (AppleII clone), TI-99/4As avail
      near 	Toronto. (Alexandre Souza)
  19. Osborn 1 systems available in OR (shumaker at att.net)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:57:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw at mesanet.com>
Subject: Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.0911121548130.15267 at freeby.mesanet.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:

...
  Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:46:34 -0500
 From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
 Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
     <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
 Subject: Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope

 On Nov 12, 2009, at 6:13 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
   Umm the
world is round.  I suspect all the big cleaning of old stuff
 was done about 10 to 15 years ago, with the advent of digital scopes.  
 In the past six months, I have come across (in mostly different
 locations!) EIGHT different tube type Tek scopes. I will likely only
 keep the 565 machine, as all good 70s mainframe shops had a Tek on a
 cart tucked away somewhere. 
 You, sir, are blessed with being in the right part of the country to get 
 interesting gear cheap.  The best I can hope for around here is old VCRs and 
 last year's Pentiums.  And yes, I DO know how to find stuff...there's just 
 not any here.

  Just a few days ago I came into a 535A and a 567.
The 567 is a little
 bit of an oddball, as it has the built in Nixie tube frequency
 counter. I may end up parting these out, unless someone wants to give
 me scrap/parts/shipping value (from 10512). It is a bit rough, so it
 is a bit of a project. 
 567, I don't think I've even heard of that model.  Built-in frequency 
 counter, neat!  I might be interested in picking that up from you if you 
 don't get any other takers.

          -Dave

 -- 
 Dave McGuire
 Port Charlotte, FL 
Dont think its frequency counter but a voltmeter/comparator widget that can 
measure amplitude/risetime etc when used with sampling plugins. Has go/nogo 
outputs, probably intended as part of a automated test system.

Peter Wallace

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:04:28 -0500
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
	<e1d20d630911121604t6b5871c5i6bfcdffcf2d4ddf7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

...
  Dont think its frequency counter but a
voltmeter/comparator widget that can
 measure amplitude/risetime etc when used with sampling plugins. Has go/nogo
 outputs, probably intended as part of a automated test system. 
I think you might be right there. I will take a look at it tomorrow.

--
Will

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:10:50 -0500
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: GRI
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <e1d20d630911121610yc5d84y3649b6185709cdb3 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

...
  GRI--Newton, Mass--I thought, was a firm not
affiliated with anyone. 
The advert in an old Datamation has the fine print "part of GR Industries".

GenRad at the time was an almost sunken ship (there is such a thing as
being too conservative in the test equipment market!), and I have to
think it was a mad attempt to bail out the water.

--
Will

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:35:04 -0700
From: CRC <technobug at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <211232ED-E34B-4679-913D-BEE87A8EDA70 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:35:03 -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:

...
  [...]
 You can say that again.  While I don't miss fussing with the old
 storage-tube scopes, a good analog scope is still a very valuable
 tool (mine is an old Tek 465).  I wouldn't mind owning a 7000 series
 unit with a nice palette of plugins, but I suspect those are still in
 high demand and command real money.

 --Chuck 
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:51:34 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:

...
    770x scopes are relatively cheap, but a 790x in good
shape will
 set you back may hundreds of dollars.  The good thing is that they're
 practically indestructible.
 [...] 
I've seen quite a few 770x and 79xx scopes come through my local  
scraper in the last few years and haven't sold. Right now, the gold  
value in these beasts are worth more than what people are willing to  
pay and almost all are hitting the scrap bin. As a house warmer I keep  
a 7944 around - a two beam unit that will display 8 inputs, but use a  
Tek 2465B when I need the speed.

	CRC

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:00:56 -0800
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
Subject: Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4AFC3F48.24450.21FCBAB at cclist.sydex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 12 Nov 2009 at 17:35, CRC wrote:

...
  I've seen quite a few 770x and 79xx scopes come
through my local 
 scraper in the last few years and haven't sold. Right now, the gold 
 value in these beasts are worth more than what people are willing to 
 pay and almost all are hitting the scrap bin. As a house warmer I keep
  a 7944 around - a two beam unit that will display 8 inputs, but use a
  Tek 2465B when I need the speed. 
A shame--I remember putting in a lot of hours with the logic analyzer 
plugin--it was amazingly useful, even when compared to the dedicated 
HP analyzers of the 70s.

--Chuck

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:24:08 -0500
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
Subject: Re: Shipping a Tek 'scope
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <8704A9C2-14D8-42C3-96E8-20EC283E2294 at neurotica.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:35 PM, CRC wrote:
...
   [...]
 You can say that again.  While I don't miss fussing with the old
 storage-tube scopes, a good analog scope is still a very valuable
 tool (mine is an old Tek 465).  I wouldn't mind owning a 7000 series
 unit with a nice palette of plugins, but I suspect those are still in
 high demand and command real money.

 --Chuck 
 On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:51:34 -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:

    770x scopes are relatively cheap, but a 790x in
good shape will
 set you back may hundreds of dollars.  The good thing is that they're
 practically indestructible.
 [...] 
 I've seen quite a few 770x and 79xx scopes come through my local  
 scraper in the last few years and haven't sold. Right now, the gold  
 value in these beasts are worth more than what people are willing  
 to pay and almost all are hitting the scrap bin. As a house warmer  
 I keep a 7944 around - a two beam unit that will display 8 inputs,  
 but use a Tek 2465B when I need the speed. 
   They still fetch big bucks on eBay and through brokers.  Anyone  
scrapping them is a fool.

           -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:27:31 -0500
From: "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com>
Subject: Re: GRI
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4AFCB603.5060204 at atarimuseum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Anybody have a Genrad 6500 development system they'd like to trade or sell ?

Curt

Dave McGuire wrote:
...

   GenRad made LOTS of very high-end automated board testers as well, 
 most of which were built around embedded Qbus PDP-11s.  Many of them 
 are still in service; I have a friend who runs a tidy business 
 maintaining them.

             -Dave

 On Nov 12, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Dave Caroline wrote:
  Around that time ish they were also making a
digital tester, Bug hound
 GR2220, I wonder if that was born to fix their computer etc

 Dave Caroline

 On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:18 PM, William Donzelli 
 <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking of classic test equipment...
>
> The circa-1970 GRI-99 minicomputer from GRI. What a bomb. I have to
> wonder how many sold, and if any are left.
>
> Was GRI an attempt by General Radio to get into the minicomputer fray?
>
> -- 
> Will
> 

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:49:07 -0600
From: Brian Lanning <brianlanning at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: apple documentary and huge apple collection
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
	<6dbe3c380911121749k46bd11c9s661f9ecffc77e8c9 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Alexandre Souza <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com>wrote:

...
  It remembers me how HARD is to find a IIGS here in
Brazil. Even a
 motherboard would help.

 BTW, anyone with a spare Ramworks II or Ramworks III? :o)

Or how about a 2e/2gs scsi controller?

There are great many machines that aren't here either.  I'd like to have a
Sharp X68000.  But that's unlikely to happen here.  If one came up on ebay,
I'm sure it would have a ridiculous price.  :-)

I just picked up a spare 2gs from ebay for the princely sum of $8.  lol
Some of them go for quite a bit though if they include all the accessories.

brian

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:17:02 -0800
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
Subject: Re: GRI
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4AFC511E.14431.2657941 at cclist.sydex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 12 Nov 2009 at 19:10, William Donzelli wrote:

> ...
  GRI--Newton, Mass--I thought, was a firm not
affiliated with anyone. > 
> The advert in an old Datamation has the fine print "part of GR
> Industries".
> 
> GenRad at the time was an almost sunken ship (there is such a thing as
> being too conservative in the test equipment market!), and I have to
> think it was a mad attempt to bail out the water.

Will, I think it's the wrong "GR", but an interesting story.  From

 http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/arch/risc/

"Sidenote: Saul Dinman explained in 2003 that GRI was originally 
General Research Corporation, a private Massachussetts company; when 
it went public, it had name conflicts with a pre-existing General 
Research, and then with General Radio as it hunted for a non-
conflicting name. Under the name GRI, the company was eventually 
acquired by venture capitalists in North Carolina, and then by a 
display manufacturer that wanted to buy their OEM supplier, and 
finally by Analog Devices. The GRI processor architecture was one of 
the first bus-oriented architectures built using a printed-circuit 
backplane. Thousands of GRI-909 systems were sold on an OEM basis, 
mostly in the industrial control sector. Had marketing and 
capitalization worked out differently, the GRI-909 might have been an 
effective competitor for the Data General Nova, another DEC spinoff."

So I guess that any remnants of GRI might be in AD's archives...

Cheers,
Chuck

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:06:14 -0800
From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
Subject: Re: GRI
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4AFCCD26.4090402 at bitsavers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

William Donzelli wrote:

...
  Was GRI an attempt by General Radio to get into the
minicomputer fray?

No, it was a company started by Saul Denman after he left DEC. Saul
came up with the PDP-8/S

Did some GRI stuff turn up?

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:16:44 -0800
From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org>
Subject: Re: GRI
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4AFCCF9C.3000400 at bitsavers.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
...
  Anybody have a Genrad 6500 development system
they'd like to trade or 
 sell ?

The 6500 development system was designed by a company called Datakit. Home-grown
OS, and hard sectored floppies, as I recall.

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:21:36 -0500
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: GRI
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
	<e1d20d630911121921l28c361d9ta93659e61e0113c1 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

...
  No, it was a company started by Saul Denman after he
left DEC. Saul
 came up with the PDP-8/S

 Did some GRI stuff turn up? 
Nope, just some old Datamations with the advert.

I find it interesting that the ad does not make it clear at all that
the company is or is not associated with GenRad.

--
Will

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:30:14 -0500
From: "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com>
Subject: Re: GRI
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4AFCD2C6.2050904 at atarimuseum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi Al,

   Thanks for the heads up and info....

Curt

Al Kossow wrote:
...
  Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
  Anybody have a Genrad 6500 development system
they'd like to trade or 
 sell ?

 The 6500 development system was designed by a company called Datakit. 
 Home-grown
 OS, and hard sectored floppies, as I recall.

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:04:41 -0500
From: "Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com>
Subject: Re: apple documentary and huge apple collection
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <E51349B2B4A64A878BA06BC75AB5C6F2 at dell8300>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Lanning" <brianlanning at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: apple documentary and huge apple collection

...
  On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Alexandre Souza 
 <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com>wrote:

  It remembers me how HARD is to find a IIGS here
in Brazil. Even a
 motherboard would help.

 BTW, anyone with a spare Ramworks II or Ramworks III? :o)

 Or how about a 2e/2gs scsi controller? 
...
  I just picked up a spare 2gs from ebay for the
princely sum of $8.  lol
 Some of them go for quite a bit though if they include all the 
 accessories.

 brian 
Depends what you do on the IIgs. If you just want to play games or a few old 
apps you can get by with a simple system, monitor, keyboard, dual 3.5" and 
dual 5.25".

I have a Transwarp IIgs, 8mb RAM card, rev C SCSI card, and I mostly just 
boot from floppy and play games. All the extras are nice if you use GS/OS 
and want to transfer images and files around (and read HFS partitions or 
network with a Mac), but if you have an old Mac you can make usable disks 
there.

You can still find systems on freecycle if you post a wanted, they will most 
likely be basic setups (teachers seem to snag them for their kids and then 
get rid of them when the kids get older).

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:00:38 -0800
From: jim s <jws at jwsss.com>
Subject: Re: Walkthrough of a small datacenter 1992
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4AFC5B56.9050309 at jwsss.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

rmg at ranma.com wrote:
...
  Just ran across this list.  I thought I'd share
this with all of you.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am60T-p7f1E

 This was when I was working at NASA Ames -- NASA Science Internet (NSIPO), Building
N-233.  I had a Sony Hi8 I just had bought and was testing out.  I'm surprised I kept
this footage.

 Enjoy!

    Rob Gutierrez
    Very interesting footage to have.  I have a friend who may have one of 
the Micom boxes.  We used one in our office for terminal access. 

Also interesting is that one seemed to have to waste paper to keep the 
systems running.  I suppose most dec systems had printing consoles and 
had to be running, from the stories that are out there about systems 
where the consoles quit.

I noticed the disk drives as well, still have some fujitsu drives, as 
well as the CDC SMD drives that appeared to be in the racks.

thanks for posting it.

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:03:56 -0500
From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave09 at dunfield.com>
Subject: Compupro 8/16 system avail. in San Francisco Bay area
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <14E4FC3534B2 at dunfield.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Apparently headed for recycling if no takers are found (so act soon).
Contact me off-list for more info.

Dave

--
dave09 (at)    Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com            Collector of vintage computing equipment:
               http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:03:56 -0500
From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave09 at dunfield.com>
Subject: PET, Sinclair, Unitron (AppleII clone), TI-99/4As avail near
	Toronto.
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <14E4FBE73756 at dunfield.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

1    Commodore 8032 computer
1    Commodore 8250M  dual floppy drive
1    timex/sinclair M330 computer
1    Unitron  Apple clone with single floppy drive,Applesoft tutorial
     & Apple lle owners manual
2    Texas Instr.  TI-94/4A computers with two power supplies, one
     synthesizer unit with software & manuals.

Located in Richmond Hill, north of Toronto (Ontario, Canada).
Apparently headed for recycling if no takers are found (so act soon).
Contact me off-list for more information.

Dave

--
dave09 (at)    Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com            Collector of vintage computing equipment:
               http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:22:04 -0200
From: Alexandre Souza <pu1bzz.listas at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: PET, Sinclair, Unitron (AppleII clone), TI-99/4As avail
	near 	Toronto.
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
	<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID:
	<4a15f9590911130522h74bc0405t348103331436853b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Wow, Unitron AP II :oD This is the best brazilian apple clone :oD

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Dave Dunfield <dave09 at dunfield.com> wrote:

...
  1    Commodore 8032 computer
 1    Commodore 8250M  dual floppy drive
 1    timex/sinclair M330 computer
 1    Unitron  Apple clone with single floppy drive,Applesoft tutorial
     & Apple lle owners manual
 2    Texas Instr.  TI-94/4A computers with two power supplies, one
     synthesizer unit with software & manuals.

------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:55:57 +0000
From: shumaker at att.net
Subject: Osborn 1 systems available in OR
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID:
	<111320091555.5993.4AFD818C000E88970000176922230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF9D0A050E039A089C
at att.net>

2  Osborn 1 systems available in the Corvallis (actually Albany) OR area.. One gets a
screen prompt,  one does not (NFI)

seller wants $20 each but suspect he's flexible.  Needs them gone so he can move. 
there is apparently SOME software/docs to go with.  

anyone interested, contact me off list for info  

steve

End of cctalk Digest, Vol 75, Issue 17
**************************************