15 Mar
2015
15 Mar
'15
11:38 a.m.
Thanks to everyone who responded!
I decided, after a look at the manuals, and on eBay, to go with the
23B/Unipak2B combo; it seems like it is likely to cover most things
I want to do, and was available, something I could hook up to, etc, etc.
A few points:
From: Jon Elson
You won't find ANYTHING that supports 1702
devices, they needed 80 V to
program.
I checked, and the 29B/Unipak2B combo does not support them. Does anyone
know if DEC used 1702s in anything PDP-11?
Are there any other early PROMs I'm likely to run in PDP-11's that are also
going to be difficult to deal with?
From: Roe Peterson
> What about the modern TL866? Anybody has
experience with these?
They are fairly decent units, but can not handle
68764/68766 EPROMS,
which you might need for pdp11 systems.
Well, I don't know about for PDP-11s, but the very first thing I'm going to do
with it is blow EPROMs for a diagnostic ROM pack for my Tek 1240's, and those
take 68764/68766's (or equivalent). So that one was out, for me. (BTW, what's
the difference between the two? Looking at the data sheets very quickly, they
seemed to be pretty much the same?)
From: Chuck Guzis
Do you need program the old 3-rail EPROMs? (e.g. 2704,
2708)?
I have no idea what PROMs I will, over time, want to blow. I know of a couple
of applications right off the bat (BDV11s, which I guess take a large range
of things), and the afore-mentioned Tek 1240 ROM pack, but in the long run, I
don't really know what I'll want to do with it. That's why I said I was
looking for something that could do a wide range of early stuff.
Noel
15 Mar
15 Mar
11:46 a.m.
On Mar 15, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at
mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
...A few points:
48 volts, according to a 1702A datasheet I just dug up with Google.
paul
From: Jon Elson
> You won't find ANYTHING that supports 1702 devices, they needed 80 V to
> program. 
11:53 a.m.
On 03/15/2015 10:46 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
OK, but the device programmer I had for them had, as best I
remember, and 80 V
power supply. Seems a bit high, and it HAD been a while,
but that's what I remember.
So, yes, the voltage at the chip was lower.
Jon
On Mar 15,
2015, at 11:38 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
...A few points:
> From: Jon Elson
> You won't find ANYTHING that supports 1702 devices, they needed 80 V to
> program.
48 volts, according to a 1702A datasheet I just dug up with Google.
3:51 p.m.
On 03/15/2015 10:53 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
On 03/15/2015 10:46 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
OK, but the device programmer I had for them had, as best
I remember, and 80 V
power supply. Seems a bit high, and it HAD been a while,
but that's what I remember.
So, yes, the voltage at the chip was lower.
Jon
On Mar
15, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Noel Chiappa
<jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
...A few points:
> From: Jon Elson
> You won't find ANYTHING that supports 1702 devices,
> they needed 80 V to
> program.
48 volts, according to a 1702A datasheet I just dug up
with Google.
3:54 p.m.
Here's a link to a photo of a Logical Devices Allpro 88
programmer with the
ISA plug-in card. I do NOT have the software for this
unit. The socket
deck on top unplugs, and other sockets can be plugged in.
http://pico-systems.com/images/102_6989.JPG
If anybody wants it, $25 plus shipping and it is yours.
(I'm in the St. Louis, MO area, ZIP 63122.)
Jon
7:36 p.m.
On 3/15/2015 12:54 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Here's a link to a photo of a Logical Devices
Allpro 88 programmer
with the
ISA plug-in card. I do NOT have the software for this unit. The socket
deck on top unplugs, and other sockets can be plugged in.
http://pico-systems.com/images/102_6989.JPG
If anybody wants it, $25 plus shipping and it is yours.
(I'm in the St. Louis, MO area, ZIP 63122.)
Jon
The software is available on their site at:
http://www.logicaldevices.com/download2.htm
Bob
--
Dentopedalogy is the science of opening your mouth and putting your foot in it.
I've been practising it for years.
-Prince Philip
8 p.m.
On 03/15/2015 06:36 PM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:
On 3/15/2015 12:54 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Oh, cool! Thanks for looking this up.
Now, it just needs
somebody who wants it
enough and has a machine with ISA slots.
Jon
Here's a link to a photo of a Logical Devices
Allpro 88
programmer with the
ISA plug-in card. I do NOT have the software for this
unit. The socket
deck on top unplugs, and other sockets can be plugged in.
http://pico-systems.com/images/102_6989.JPG
If anybody wants it, $25 plus shipping and it is yours.
(I'm in the St. Louis, MO area, ZIP 63122.)
Jon
The software is available on their site at:
http://www.logicaldevices.com/download2.htm 
4:21 p.m.
On 2015-Mar-15, at 8:53 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
OK,
but the device programmer I had for them had, as best I remember, and 80 V
power supply. Seems a bit high, and it HAD been a while, but that's what I
remember.
So, yes, the voltage at the chip was lower.
On 03/15/2015 10:46 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
>> On Mar 15, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
>>
>> ...A few points:
>>
>>> From: Jon Elson
>>> You won't find ANYTHING that supports 1702 devices, they needed 80 V to
>>> program.
> 48 volts, according to a 1702A datasheet I just dug up with Google.
While the datasheet says a program voltage of 48V (actually ?48V), that's with another
of the chips supplies at +12V, so there's a voltage difference at the chip of 60V.
Different programmer designs can shift the voltages different ways relative to GND.
A (period) programmer design I've looked at uses 0, +48, +60; while if one is looking
at the datasheet it's ?48, 0, +12.
6:27 p.m.
I suggested the data I/O 29B originally, so obviously I'm a fan.
To whomever suggested the Andromeda unit; I had never heard of that one and
it DOES support the early bipolar proms that I frequently encounter with
pdp11, HP, etc. stuff (with an additional adapter). I'm impressed, it looks
like a really nice unit.
That being said, I think it's pretty pricey. $299 for the base unit, plus
$179 to do the 82Sxxx bipolars and I'm basically at $500.
Plus it doesn't have the wonderful retro keypad of the 29b ;)
I don't know... if I had to do it all over again (given that a data I/O 29B
with unipak2 seems to go for about $400+ on ebay), I'm not sure which I'd go
with. The Andromeda sure is nice... but I already have the 29B :)
J
12:18 p.m.
You won't
find ANYTHING that supports 1702 devices, they needed 80 V to
program.
I checked, and the 29B/Unipak2B combo does not support them. Does anyone
know if DEC used 1702s in anything PDP-11? Are there any other early PROMs I'm likely to run
in PDP-11's that are also
going to be difficult to deal with?
They did use the 3-rail 2708 quite a bit. Many modern programmers can't handle that
one, I have
no idea if the 29B can.
Not EPROMs, but the early PLAs like the 82S100 turn up in some PDP11 stuff (11/44 I think
is full of them).
-tony
-tony
12:50 p.m.
2015-03-15 17:18 GMT+01:00 tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
I don't know about the PDP11, but the Omnibus (PDP8/e , etc) EPROM board
uses them. They are
soldered to the board with jumper blocks on the top connectors to connect
them to the Omnibus
interface circuit. For programming you connected the programmer
(presumably with a special cable)
to said top connectors in place of the jumpers.
I think that you mean this card:
http://www.datormuseum.se/computers/digital-equipment-corporation/pdp-8-e
The programmer is a rack mounted unit with integrated connectors where you
plug in the board. The programmer has a fan to cool the board while
programming. I have said programmer but I am unsure about how to connect it
to anything and unfortunately the lid of one of the 1702 is missing.
Otherwise it is a nice board.
> You won't find ANYTHING that
supports 1702 devices, they needed 80
V to
program.
I checked, and the 29B/Unipak2B combo does not support them. Does anyone
know if DEC used 1702s in anything PDP-11? The only thing I have that will program 1702As (which,
IIRC are not the
same programming spec as
the original 1702) is my Intellec MCS8i.
Are there any other early PROMs I'm likely to
run in PDP-11's that are
also
going to be difficult to deal with?
They did use the 3-rail 2708 quite a bit. Many modern programmers can't
handle that one, I have
no idea if the 29B can.
Not EPROMs, but the early PLAs like the 82S100 turn up in some PDP11 stuff
(11/44 I think is full of them).
-tony
-tony
3413
days inactive
3414
days old
10 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bobalan＠sbcglobal.net -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
mattislind＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net