18 Sep
2014
18 Sep
'14
8:23 p.m.
From: "Ali" <cctalk at fahimi.net>
Subject: RE: "Smartcom II" package available
Message-ID: <037e01cfd372$28183000$78489000$@net>
Earl,
That is pretty cool. Did the NEC system run an 8" based MS-DOS? Or was it a
different variety of DOS (or straight CP/M)? I have heard rumors
of MS-DOS natively available on 8" disks but I have never seen one. If it
is MS-DOS how compatible is it with MS-DOS versions of the
same vintage? Thanks.
It seems to be a pretty "standard" MS-DOS from Microsoft. I don't have
the original disks, so I can't say for 100% sure that it came on 8" but
I wouldn't think it would work properly if it hadn't come that way. It
"seems" to be pretty darn near the same MS-DOS that I remember. I've not,
however, got my setup in place yet to get info from a 5.25 to an 8 so I can
test out other programs on it to see where it has issues. I saw a great
presentation from Malcom during VCF East 9.1, and have slowly started
trying to pick up the pieces that he listed for his disk imaging system.
I'll be sure to report here when I have that done and can get some SW onto
more disks... (if anybody wants to send me a disk with something they'd
like to know if it works, I'll more than willing to give it a go... and
send the disk back when done...)
Earl
p.s. I need to find a sturdy table to put it on... it's on the floor right
now... because of that old maxim : You can't fall off the floor. :-)
19 Sep
19 Sep
8:46 a.m.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, Earl Baugh wrote:
It seems to be a pretty "standard" MS-DOS
from Microsoft. I don't have
the original disks, so I can't say for 100% sure that it came on 8" but
I wouldn't think it would work properly if it hadn't come that way.
8", 5.25" (HD), 3.5"(360RPM)
It
"seems" to be pretty darn near the same MS-DOS that I remember.
MS-DOS. but not PC-DOS.
DOS level is the same. Stuff below DOS level (BIOS,hardware) has serious
differences.
I've not,
however, got my setup in place yet to get info from a 5.25 to an 8 so I can
test out other programs on it to see where it has issues.
Either add a "1.2M" 5.25" drive to the NEC,
oe add 8" drives to PC,
or add 360RPM 3.5" to both sides. There exist some 3.5" drives that can
do both 300 RPM AND do 360RPM.
You COULD transfer files through serial port, but I always prefer solving
the disk format incompatabilities.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
9:27 a.m.
On 09/19/2014 08:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2014, Earl Baugh wrote:
...and 1024 byte sectors.
--Chuck
It seems to be a pretty "standard"
MS-DOS from Microsoft. I don't have
the original disks, so I can't say for 100% sure that it came on 8" but
I wouldn't think it would work properly if it hadn't come that way.
8", 5.25" (HD), 3.5"(360RPM)
9:55 a.m.
On 09/19/2014 08:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
or add 360RPM 3.5" to both sides. There exist
some 3.5" drives that can
do both 300 RPM AND do 360RPM.
Forgot to add that most USB 3.5" floppies will auto-switch to 360 RPM as
well as the Imation Superdrive. Windows 2K/XP (at least) takes it all
into stride.
--Chuck
20 Sep
20 Sep
12:24 p.m.
Earl,
That would be great. As Fred mentioned in another post the system maybe MS DOS compatible
but not PC compatible. Although, I was always under the impression it was the other way
around i.e. MS DOS compatibility was a subset of PC Compatibility i.e. a PC could run
multiple DOSes (e.g. MS-DOS, PC-DOS, DR-ROS, CP/M, Netware, etc.) but MS-DOS could only be
run on a PC...
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf
Of Earl Baugh
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:23 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: "Smartcom II" package available
From: "Ali" <cctalk at fahimi.net>
Subject: RE: "Smartcom II" package available
Message-ID: <037e01cfd372$28183000$78489000$@net>
Earl,
That is pretty cool. Did the NEC system run an 8" based MS-DOS? Or was it a different
variety of DOS (or straight CP/M)? I have heard rumors of MS-DOS natively available on
8" disks but I have never seen one. If it is MS-DOS how compatible is it with MS-DOS
versions of the same vintage? Thanks.
It seems to be a pretty "standard" MS-DOS from Microsoft. I don't have
the original disks, so I can't say for 100% sure that it came on 8" but
I wouldn't think it would work properly if it hadn't come that way. It
"seems" to be pretty darn near the same MS-DOS that I remember. I've not,
however, got my setup in place yet to get info from a 5.25 to an 8 so I can
test out other programs on it to see where it has issues. I saw a great
presentation from Malcom during VCF East 9.1, and have slowly started trying to pick up
the pieces that he listed for his disk imaging system.
I'll be sure to report here when I have that done and can get some SW onto more
disks... (if anybody wants to send me a disk with something they'd like to know if it
works, I'll more than willing to give it a go... and send the disk back when done...)
Earl
p.s. I need to find a sturdy table to put it on... it's on the floor right now...
because of that old maxim : You can't fall off the floor. :-)
2:41 p.m.
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014, Ali wrote:
That would be great. As Fred mentioned in another post
the system maybe
MS DOS compatible but not PC compatible. Although, I was always under
the impression it was the other way around i.e. MS DOS compatibility was
a subset of PC Compatibility i.e. a PC could run multiple DOSes (e.g.
MS-DOS, PC-DOS, DR-ROS, CP/M, Netware, etc.) but MS-DOS could only be
run on a PC...
An interesting way to look at it.
ALL "PC-Compatible" machines can run PC-DOS, which [<5.00]is a version of
MS-DOS.
Almost all MS-DOS machines can run PC-DOS. But more importantly, to be
"PC-Compatible", it must run not only the OS, but also the software
written for the PC. MOST commercial software did not use the operating
system for input and output. Putting bytes into video memory is MUCH
faster then asking the operating system to write a character, which then
asks the BIOS to write a character, which then puts the byte into video
memory. If you are filling the entire screen with text, that will look
like a teletype, whereas REP MOVSW can write those 2000 characters (AND
attributes) in way less time (not much more than 1/30 second)
BIOS provides much more versatile keyboard input - get a character and
echo it, get a character without echoing, and very importantly, check for
a character and get it WITHOUT waiting until there is a character before
coming back.
Using the OS for disk IO works great for files. It's possible, but
awkward, to read or write sectors. It is not practical to read or write
sectors that are a different size than what that version of the OS is
configured for.
MS-DOS itself is a moderately portable system.
It can be used on machines without video memory in the same place as the
PC, or even on machines that do their console IO without video memory.
It doesn't CARE what the video, keyboard, or FDC hardware is. But that
means that it also can only do what it is designed for. PC-DOS is MS-DOS
configured for the IBM PC. NEC MS-DOS is MS-DOS configured for the NEC.
So, therefore, since PC-DOS is a version (or "subset") of MS-DOS,
"PC-Compatible" is a "subset" of MS-DOS compatible, and can include
some machines with different hardware.
At a trivial level, that could mean that there could be a machine that is
not "PC compatible" that is very similar, or even identical, except for
for example, using a different kind of disk drive. DEC Rainbow, Victor
9000, Gavilan, Toshiba T300, etc. all run various versions of MS-DOS, but
commercial PC software will not run on them.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4011
days inactive
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earl＠baugh.org