17 Jun
2012
17 Jun
'12
10:58 a.m.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
Update. I did just find some DG Doc, in the Nova 4 16
Slot Illustrated Parts
Breakdown (016-000940-00) that I have.
Curiously, for 120v, they show Hot going to Pin *** 4 ***, but the plug
otherwise wired exactly as I described in my previous message. ?But, I think
that is in error, and one should wire hot to pin ***3 *** for 120V.
For 240V they show Hot going to pin 3, neutral to 9, and ground to 5 (and
6). ?For 240V the only interconnects they show are from 1 to 11 and from 4
to 7 (as opposed to 4 to 8 for 120V). ?Again, I think that hot pin 3 is in
error, and (probably) for 240V, one should wire hot to pin 4 BUT I HAVE NO
WAY TO VERIFY THIS.
HOWEVER, I did go back and re-verify what I wrote earlier on both my Nova/4
and (now) my S/140 as well and both have pin 3 as HOT. ?All 120V of it.
Other than that, the interconnections I described below match the doc. ?The
only variance is between hot for 120v (I say pin 3, they say 4) and hot for
240v (they say pin 3).
Go figure. ?(Unfortunately, I don't have power supply drawings that I can
use to arbitrate).
Thanks Jay,
Using this, I was able to get the power supply going. All voltages
check out OK, so after some careful examination I've plugged in the
CPU board. The expected output on the console port is the "O" from
"OK"; the K isn't printed because there's no memory.
Powered it on, and after some twiddling with the console cable pinout
(weird one) yes, there's the "O".
Installed the memory board, powered it on again, and alas, still "O"
rather than "OK". The Field Engineer's Reference says that that means
a memory failure.
Of course, the memory board could be faulty, but it could also be a
matter of incorrect jumper settings on the memory board. I haven't
been able to find a description of these yet.
The board says "DGC BBU MEMORY", and contains 8 x 16 AM9016DPC ic's
(4116 equivalent). That makes it 128 16-bit kilowords of memory (no
parity or ECC, although there are 5 empty spots per row).
There are 6 jumper positions labeled 16,17,18,19,0 and 1; each can
have a jumper in the 0 or in the 1 position. My board has a jumper in
the "0" position for jumpers 16, 17 and 18. No jumpers in the other
three positions:
o o o o o o
1
o o o o o o
0 | | |
o o o o o o
16 17 18 19 0 1
Is anyone familiar with these?
Camiel
17 Jun
17 Jun
11:02 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Nova-4 memory jumper settings (was Re: Nova-4 / Eclipse S/120 power connector)
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
Update. I did just find some DG Doc, in the Nova 4 16
Slot Illustrated Parts
Breakdown (016-000940-00) that I have.
Curiously, for 120v, they show Hot going to Pin *** 4 ***, but the plug
otherwise wired exactly as I described in my previous message. ?But, I think
that is in error, and one should wire hot to pin ***3 *** for 120V.
For 240V they show Hot going to pin 3, neutral to 9, and ground to 5 (and
6). ?For 240V the only interconnects they show are from 1 to 11 and from 4
to 7 (as opposed to 4 to 8 for 120V). ?Again, I think that hot pin 3 is in
error, and (probably) for 240V, one should wire hot to pin 4 BUT I HAVE NO
WAY TO VERIFY THIS.
HOWEVER, I did go back and re-verify what I wrote earlier on both my Nova/4
and (now) my S/140 as well and both have pin 3 as HOT. ?All 120V of it.
Other than that, the interconnections I described below match the doc. ?The
only variance is between hot for 120v (I say pin 3, they say 4) and hot for
240v (they say pin 3).
Go figure. ?(Unfortunately, I don't have power supply drawings that I can
use to arbitrate).
Thanks Jay,
Using this, I was able to get the power supply going. All voltages
check out OK, so after some careful examination I've plugged in the
CPU board. The expected output on the console port is the "O" from
"OK"; the K isn't printed because there's no memory.
Powered it on, and after some twiddling with the console cable pinout
(weird one) yes, there's the "O".
Installed the memory board, powered it on again, and alas, still "O"
rather than "OK". The Field Engineer's Reference says that that means
a memory failure.
Of course, the memory board could be faulty, but it could also be a
matter of incorrect jumper settings on the memory board. I haven't
been able to find a description of these yet.
The board says "DGC BBU MEMORY", and contains 8 x 16 AM9016DPC ic's
(4116 equivalent). That makes it 128 16-bit kilowords of memory (no
parity or ECC, although there are 5 empty spots per row).
There are 6 jumper positions labeled 16,17,18,19,0 and 1; each can
have a jumper in the 0 or in the 1 position. My board has a jumper in
the "0" position for jumpers 16, 17 and 18. No jumpers in the other
three positions:
?o ?o ?o ?o ?o ?o
1
?o ?o ?o ?o ?o ?o
0 | ?| ?|
?o ?o ?o ?o ?o ?o
?16 17 18 19 0 ?1
Is anyone familiar with these?
Camiel
3:23 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Nova-4 memory jumper settings (was Re: Nova-4 / Eclipse S/120 power connector)
I have an illustration in my DG "Installation and Packaging for Data
General Products" 014-000605-02 - it is 1.5 inches thick 14 7/8 x 11,
covering Nova 2 thru 4, Eclipse S/100 thru MV/1800, MP/100, MP/200 and
various peripherals - really handy for jumper settings and the like.)
that appears to match up (3 rows of 6 jumper positions each), but with
different labelling. I also have this very board in my Nova 4 -- but
apparently with less memory than you have.
The illustration is thus in my book:
o o o o o o
w w w w w w
2 4 6 8 10 12
o o o o o o
w w w w w w
1 3 5 7 9 13
o o o o o o
According to this chart, then, you have w1, w3 and w5 inserted.
The book says that w1, w3 and w5 are ALWAYS inserted and that w2, w4 and
w6 are NEVER inserted. This is consistent with what you have and with
what I have in my machine.
The board can be populated as 32KB, 64KB, 128KB and 256KB.
For a 256KB board, no other jumpers are inserted.
For a 128KB board, W7 is inserted.
For a 64KB board, W7 and W9 are inserted.
For a 32KB board, W7, W9 and W11 are inserted.
If yours is indeed 256KB (128K words) then no other jumpers should be
present, and your board is jumpered as one would expect according to the
doc.
*My* board has every other row present, and so is a 128KB board. I thus
have 4 rows out of the total of 8 populated, with 15 chips per populated
row (and 5 empty spots in each of the populated rows). w7 is inserted,
as one would expect from the doc. And, on my board the labels are the
same ones you are seeing: 16, 17, 18, 19, 0, 1 (So I have 16, 17, 18
and 19 inserted in the "0" row -- the same as w1, w3, w5 and w7, above).
Jay
On 6/17/2012 10:02 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Jay Jaeger<cube1
at charter.net> wrote:
Update. I did just find some DG Doc, in the Nova
4 16 Slot Illustrated Parts
Breakdown (016-000940-00) that I have.
Curiously, for 120v, they show Hot going to Pin *** 4 ***, but the plug
otherwise wired exactly as I described in my previous message. But, I think
that is in error, and one should wire hot to pin ***3 *** for 120V.
For 240V they show Hot going to pin 3, neutral to 9, and ground to 5 (and
6). For 240V the only interconnects they show are from 1 to 11 and from 4
to 7 (as opposed to 4 to 8 for 120V). Again, I think that hot pin 3 is in
error, and (probably) for 240V, one should wire hot to pin 4 BUT I HAVE NO
WAY TO VERIFY THIS.
HOWEVER, I did go back and re-verify what I wrote earlier on both my Nova/4
and (now) my S/140 as well and both have pin 3 as HOT. All 120V of it.
Other than that, the interconnections I described below match the doc. The
only variance is between hot for 120v (I say pin 3, they say 4) and hot for
240v (they say pin 3).
Go figure. (Unfortunately, I don't have power supply drawings that I can
use to arbitrate).
Thanks Jay,
Using this, I was able to get the power supply going. All voltages
check out OK, so after some careful examination I've plugged in the
CPU board. The expected output on the console port is the "O" from
"OK"; the K isn't printed because there's no memory.
Powered it on, and after some twiddling with the console cable pinout
(weird one) yes, there's the "O".
Installed the memory board, powered it on again, and alas, still "O"
rather than "OK". The Field Engineer's Reference says that that means
a memory failure.
Of course, the memory board could be faulty, but it could also be a
matter of incorrect jumper settings on the memory board. I haven't
been able to find a description of these yet.
The board says "DGC BBU MEMORY", and contains 8 x 16 AM9016DPC ic's
(4116 equivalent). That makes it 128 16-bit kilowords of memory (no
parity or ECC, although there are 5 empty spots per row).
There are 6 jumper positions labeled 16,17,18,19,0 and 1; each can
have a jumper in the 0 or in the 1 position. My board has a jumper in
the "0" position for jumpers 16, 17 and 18. No jumpers in the other
three positions:
o o o o o o
1
o o o o o o
0 | | |
o o o o o o
16 17 18 19 0 1
Is anyone familiar with these?
Camiel
5:57 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Nova-4 memory jumper settings (was Re: Nova-4 / Eclipse S/120 power connector)
Is the row nearest to the front edge of the board pupulated in yours?
Verzonden vanaf mijn BlackBerry?-toestel van T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:23:23
To: General Discussion On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Nova-4 memory jumper settings (was Re: Nova-4 / Eclipse
S/120 power connector)
I have an illustration in my DG "Installation and Packaging for Data
General Products" 014-000605-02 - it is 1.5 inches thick 14 7/8 x 11,
covering Nova 2 thru 4, Eclipse S/100 thru MV/1800, MP/100, MP/200 and
various peripherals - really handy for jumper settings and the like.)
that appears to match up (3 rows of 6 jumper positions each), but with
different labelling. I also have this very board in my Nova 4 -- but
apparently with less memory than you have.
The illustration is thus in my book:
o o o o o o
w w w w w w
2 4 6 8 10 12
o o o o o o
w w w w w w
1 3 5 7 9 13
o o o o o o
According to this chart, then, you have w1, w3 and w5 inserted.
The book says that w1, w3 and w5 are ALWAYS inserted and that w2, w4 and
w6 are NEVER inserted. This is consistent with what you have and with
what I have in my machine.
The board can be populated as 32KB, 64KB, 128KB and 256KB.
For a 256KB board, no other jumpers are inserted.
For a 128KB board, W7 is inserted.
For a 64KB board, W7 and W9 are inserted.
For a 32KB board, W7, W9 and W11 are inserted.
If yours is indeed 256KB (128K words) then no other jumpers should be
present, and your board is jumpered as one would expect according to the
doc.
*My* board has every other row present, and so is a 128KB board. I thus
have 4 rows out of the total of 8 populated, with 15 chips per populated
row (and 5 empty spots in each of the populated rows). w7 is inserted,
as one would expect from the doc. And, on my board the labels are the
same ones you are seeing: 16, 17, 18, 19, 0, 1 (So I have 16, 17, 18
and 19 inserted in the "0" row -- the same as w1, w3, w5 and w7, above).
Jay
On 6/17/2012 10:02 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Jay Jaeger<cube1
at charter.net> wrote:
Update. I did just find some DG Doc, in the Nova
4 16 Slot Illustrated Parts
Breakdown (016-000940-00) that I have.
Curiously, for 120v, they show Hot going to Pin *** 4 ***, but the plug
otherwise wired exactly as I described in my previous message. But, I think
that is in error, and one should wire hot to pin ***3 *** for 120V.
For 240V they show Hot going to pin 3, neutral to 9, and ground to 5 (and
6). For 240V the only interconnects they show are from 1 to 11 and from 4
to 7 (as opposed to 4 to 8 for 120V). Again, I think that hot pin 3 is in
error, and (probably) for 240V, one should wire hot to pin 4 BUT I HAVE NO
WAY TO VERIFY THIS.
HOWEVER, I did go back and re-verify what I wrote earlier on both my Nova/4
and (now) my S/140 as well and both have pin 3 as HOT. All 120V of it.
Other than that, the interconnections I described below match the doc. The
only variance is between hot for 120v (I say pin 3, they say 4) and hot for
240v (they say pin 3).
Go figure. (Unfortunately, I don't have power supply drawings that I can
use to arbitrate).
Thanks Jay,
Using this, I was able to get the power supply going. All voltages
check out OK, so after some careful examination I've plugged in the
CPU board. The expected output on the console port is the "O" from
"OK"; the K isn't printed because there's no memory.
Powered it on, and after some twiddling with the console cable pinout
(weird one) yes, there's the "O".
Installed the memory board, powered it on again, and alas, still "O"
rather than "OK". The Field Engineer's Reference says that that means
a memory failure.
Of course, the memory board could be faulty, but it could also be a
matter of incorrect jumper settings on the memory board. I haven't
been able to find a description of these yet.
The board says "DGC BBU MEMORY", and contains 8 x 16 AM9016DPC ic's
(4116 equivalent). That makes it 128 16-bit kilowords of memory (no
parity or ECC, although there are 5 empty spots per row).
There are 6 jumper positions labeled 16,17,18,19,0 and 1; each can
have a jumper in the 0 or in the 1 position. My board has a jumper in
the "0" position for jumpers 16, 17 and 18. No jumpers in the other
three positions:
o o o o o o
1
o o o o o o
0 | | |
o o o o o o
16 17 18 19 0 1
Is anyone familiar with these?
Camiel
6:09 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Nova-4 memory jumper settings (was Re: Nova-4 / Eclipse S/120 power connector)
Row of???
If you mean memory chips, the answer is yes. Then a blank row, then the
the next row of memory chips, and so on.
On 6/17/2012 4:57 PM, iamcamiel at gmail.com wrote:
Is the row nearest to the front edge of the board
pupulated in yours?
Verzonden vanaf mijn BlackBerry?-toestel van T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Jaeger<cube1 at charter.net>
Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 14:23:23
To: General Discussion On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Nova-4 memory jumper settings (was Re: Nova-4 / Eclipse
S/120 power connector)
I have an illustration in my DG "Installation and Packaging for Data
General Products" 014-000605-02 - it is 1.5 inches thick 14 7/8 x 11,
covering Nova 2 thru 4, Eclipse S/100 thru MV/1800, MP/100, MP/200 and
various peripherals - really handy for jumper settings and the like.)
that appears to match up (3 rows of 6 jumper positions each), but with
different labelling. I also have this very board in my Nova 4 -- but
apparently with less memory than you have.
The illustration is thus in my book:
o o o o o o
w w w w w w
2 4 6 8 10 12
o o o o o o
w w w w w w
1 3 5 7 9 13
o o o o o o
According to this chart, then, you have w1, w3 and w5 inserted.
The book says that w1, w3 and w5 are ALWAYS inserted and that w2, w4 and
w6 are NEVER inserted. This is consistent with what you have and with
what I have in my machine.
The board can be populated as 32KB, 64KB, 128KB and 256KB.
For a 256KB board, no other jumpers are inserted.
For a 128KB board, W7 is inserted.
For a 64KB board, W7 and W9 are inserted.
For a 32KB board, W7, W9 and W11 are inserted.
If yours is indeed 256KB (128K words) then no other jumpers should be
present, and your board is jumpered as one would expect according to the
doc.
*My* board has every other row present, and so is a 128KB board. I thus
have 4 rows out of the total of 8 populated, with 15 chips per populated
row (and 5 empty spots in each of the populated rows). w7 is inserted,
as one would expect from the doc. And, on my board the labels are the
same ones you are seeing: 16, 17, 18, 19, 0, 1 (So I have 16, 17, 18
and 19 inserted in the "0" row -- the same as w1, w3, w5 and w7, above).
Jay
On 6/17/2012 10:02 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Jay
Jaeger<cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
Update. I did just find some DG Doc, in the Nova
4 16 Slot Illustrated Parts
Breakdown (016-000940-00) that I have.
Curiously, for 120v, they show Hot going to Pin *** 4 ***, but the plug
otherwise wired exactly as I described in my previous message. But, I think
that is in error, and one should wire hot to pin ***3 *** for 120V.
For 240V they show Hot going to pin 3, neutral to 9, and ground to 5 (and
6). For 240V the only interconnects they show are from 1 to 11 and from 4
to 7 (as opposed to 4 to 8 for 120V). Again, I think that hot pin 3 is in
error, and (probably) for 240V, one should wire hot to pin 4 BUT I HAVE NO
WAY TO VERIFY THIS.
HOWEVER, I did go back and re-verify what I wrote earlier on both my Nova/4
and (now) my S/140 as well and both have pin 3 as HOT. All 120V of it.
Other than that, the interconnections I described below match the doc. The
only variance is between hot for 120v (I say pin 3, they say 4) and hot for
240v (they say pin 3).
Go figure. (Unfortunately, I don't have power supply drawings that I can
use to arbitrate).
Thanks Jay,
Using this, I was able to get the power supply going. All voltages
check out OK, so after some careful examination I've plugged in the
CPU board. The expected output on the console port is the "O" from
"OK"; the K isn't printed because there's no memory.
Powered it on, and after some twiddling with the console cable pinout
(weird one) yes, there's the "O".
Installed the memory board, powered it on again, and alas, still "O"
rather than "OK". The Field Engineer's Reference says that that means
a memory failure.
Of course, the memory board could be faulty, but it could also be a
matter of incorrect jumper settings on the memory board. I haven't
been able to find a description of these yet.
The board says "DGC BBU MEMORY", and contains 8 x 16 AM9016DPC ic's
(4116 equivalent). That makes it 128 16-bit kilowords of memory (no
parity or ECC, although there are 5 empty spots per row).
There are 6 jumper positions labeled 16,17,18,19,0 and 1; each can
have a jumper in the 0 or in the 1 position. My board has a jumper in
the "0" position for jumpers 16, 17 and 18. No jumpers in the other
three positions:
o o o o o o
1
o o o o o o
0 | | |
o o o o o o
16 17 18 19 0 1
Is anyone familiar with these?
Camiel
18 Jun
18 Jun
7:37 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> wrote:
Row of???
If you mean memory chips, the answer is yes. ?Then a blank row, then the the
next row of memory chips, and so on.
Yes, that's what I meant. I'm trying to figure out which row has the
lowest 16KB of memory (assuming they're not interleaved). I've tried
piggybacking 4116 chips onto the first and last row of memory chips to
no avail. I do not have enough 4116'es to do the entire board.
What does work though is the console interface. I can hit the reset
button and get the ? prompt. I can list the contents of registers and
memory. Is there a way to see which memory chips are suspect from this
output?
Bruce Ray at Wild Hare has been helping out too (off-list). He asked
for specific part numbers, so here goes:
Chassis : M0061411 D1882 P T005 12080 R67
NVR Supply : E0470375 D0882 P A005 12074 R26 T005 12429 R30
Backplane : E0502539 D1282 P A005 12072 R10 T005 12073 R10
0 - Supply : E0526152 D1682 P A005 12062 R48 T005 18878 R00
1 - CPU : E0471713
2 - RAM : E0752855
3 - DIABLO?: Rianda Electronics Assy No 020000-21H
5 - SERIAL?: E0859602 D0683 P A005 2041 R16 T005 3523 R10
10 - TAPE : Western Peripherals TC120 Mag Tape Controller
12 - SERL? : LV0010629 D3883 P A2041 R16 T3523 R10
15 - SMD : ZETACO Model 295 Storage Module Disk Controller
It looks like the CPU and RAM have most of their identification codes cut off.
On the back of the backplane, the following connections are made:
1 - console port
2 - A-Side and B-Side terminators
3 - Two wide ribbon connectors ending in a 50-pin MRAC connector.
There's a hand-written label attached that reads:
Rianda Electronics
AC020075-002X-06
DIABLO SEP 85
This leads me to suspect that the Rianda card in slot 3 is a
diablo disk controller. Can anyone confirm this
5 - 20 pin card edge connector, 5 wires connected (A81, A85, B54, B69,
B99 as far as I can tell)
10 - 1 50-pin card-edge connector and 2 26-pin card edge connectors
12 - same as 5
15 - none, the ZETACO has its connectors on the front of the card
16 - two large connectors going to a 100-pin card edge connector.
There is a card that fits this with a hand-written label that reads:
879-0066-000A
Terminator
I/O Board
Rev. A - Term. I/O - 6
5-16-83
On the A-side of the backplane there are some wire-wrap connections
on pins 93-96:
4 : A94 - 5 : A94
4 : A96 - 5 : A96
5 : A93 - 9 : A93
5 : A95 - 9 : A95
11 : A94 - 12 : A94
11 : A96 - 12 : A96
12 : A93 - 14 : A93
12 : A95 - 14 : A95
Cheers,
Camiel
9:21 a.m.
The maintenance manual page 60 indicates that the 4 accumulators have
the address information?
If you can do that much, why not just write yourself a really simple
machine language program to test the memory?
On 6/18/2012 6:37 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven wrote:
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Jay Jaeger<cube1
at charter.net> wrote:
Row of???
If you mean memory chips, the answer is yes. Then a blank row, then the the
next row of memory chips, and so on.
Yes, that's what I meant. I'm trying
to figure out which row has the
lowest 16KB of memory (assuming they're not interleaved). I've tried
piggybacking 4116 chips onto the first and last row of memory chips to
no avail. I do not have enough 4116'es to do the entire board.
What does work though is the console interface. I can hit the reset
button and get the ? prompt. I can list the contents of registers and
memory. Is there a way to see which memory chips are suspect from this
output?
Bruce Ray at Wild Hare has been helping out too (off-list). He asked
for specific part numbers, so here goes:
Chassis : M0061411 D1882 P T005 12080 R67
NVR Supply : E0470375 D0882 P A005 12074 R26 T005 12429 R30
Backplane : E0502539 D1282 P A005 12072 R10 T005 12073 R10
0 - Supply : E0526152 D1682 P A005 12062 R48 T005 18878 R00
1 - CPU : E0471713
2 - RAM : E0752855
3 - DIABLO?: Rianda Electronics Assy No 020000-21H
5 - SERIAL?: E0859602 D0683 P A005 2041 R16 T005 3523 R10
10 - TAPE : Western Peripherals TC120 Mag Tape Controller
12 - SERL? : LV0010629 D3883 P A2041 R16 T3523 R10
15 - SMD : ZETACO Model 295 Storage Module Disk Controller
It looks like the CPU and RAM have most of their identification codes cut off.
On the back of the backplane, the following connections are made:
1 - console port
2 - A-Side and B-Side terminators
3 - Two wide ribbon connectors ending in a 50-pin MRAC connector.
There's a hand-written label attached that reads:
Rianda Electronics
AC020075-002X-06
DIABLO SEP 85
This leads me to suspect that the Rianda card in slot 3 is a
diablo disk controller. Can anyone confirm this
5 - 20 pin card edge connector, 5 wires connected (A81, A85, B54, B69,
B99 as far as I can tell)
10 - 1 50-pin card-edge connector and 2 26-pin card edge connectors
12 - same as 5
15 - none, the ZETACO has its connectors on the front of the card
16 - two large connectors going to a 100-pin card edge connector.
There is a card that fits this with a hand-written label that reads:
879-0066-000A
Terminator
I/O Board
Rev. A - Term. I/O - 6
5-16-83
On the A-side of the backplane there are some wire-wrap connections
on pins 93-96:
4 : A94 - 5 : A94
4 : A96 - 5 : A96
5 : A93 - 9 : A93
5 : A95 - 9 : A95
11 : A94 - 12 : A94
11 : A96 - 12 : A96
12 : A93 - 14 : A93
12 : A95 - 14 : A95
Cheers,
Camiel
4422
days inactive
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days old
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