7 May
2007
7 May
'07
6:58 a.m.
Can the Pro380 be used with any ST506/ST412 type hard
disks or just
RD50, RD51, and RD52? I have a couple RD32 and some non-DEC drives and
am curious if any of the could be used with it. How do you format a
drive for a Pro? I never noticed any support for Professionals in XXDP?
Was there a utility in P/OS for that purpose?
-chuck
The answer is yes but the drives have to have the propper low level format.
That low level format cannot be done with a PC. It can be done on a Qbus
system with RQDX1/2 controller and XXDP.
The OS however expects only standard drvies.
RD50 == ST506
RD51 == ST412
RD52 == D540 (qunatum)
Other drives that have been used were
RD31 == ST225
RD32 == ST250
Allison
7 May
7 May
10:34 a.m.
Allison wrote:
The answer is yes but the drives have to have the
propper low level format.
That low level format cannot be done with a PC. It can be done on a Qbus
system with RQDX1/2 controller and XXDP.
This makes sense after looking at the DW.SYS from RT11. It shows 16
sectors per track which is consistent with RQDX1/2. I will have to study
the driver some more. Source comments would be nice...
Other drives that have been used were
RD31 == ST225
RD32 == ST250
How would these have been formatted since the RQDX1/2 doesn't know
anything about RD31 or RD32? The Pro tech manual describes a formatting
function that lets you lay down a low-level format for a given track.
Could a drive be formatted in the field using the Pro or did the drive
just come pre-formatted?
-chuck
3:26 p.m.
On Mon, 7 May 2007, C H Dickman wrote:
Well, when I fiddled with an ST-251 in my Pro350, I wrote my own
formatter. The register layout is close enough to the traditional IBM/PC
AT type controller that it wasn't particularly hard.
I've lost the code, though, so I can't really offer anything beyond
moral support. I do, however, have the original PC formatter code that I
started from (in TURBO Pascal 3.01), if that's helpful (I would suspect
not).
--
roger ivie
rivie at ridgenet.net
Other drives
that have been used were
RD31 == ST225
RD32 == ST250
How would these have been formatted since the RQDX1/2 doesn't know anything
about RD31 or RD32? The Pro tech manual describes a formatting function that
lets you lay down a low-level format for a given track. Could a drive be
formatted in the field using the Pro or did the drive just come
pre-formatted? 
11:47 p.m.
Can the drives be formatted on a VAXstation 2000 and moved to a PRO ?
(like you can do from a VS2000 to a PDP-11 (with RQDX3 ?))
-- Curt
Roger Ivie wrote:
On Mon, 7 May 2007, C H Dickman wrote:
Well, when I fiddled with an ST-251 in my Pro350, I wrote my own
formatter. The register layout is close enough to the traditional IBM/PC
AT type controller that it wasn't particularly hard.
I've lost the code, though, so I can't really offer anything beyond
moral support. I do, however, have the original PC formatter code that I
started from (in TURBO Pascal 3.01), if that's helpful (I would suspect
not).
Other
drives that have been used were
RD31 == ST225
RD32 == ST250
How would these have been formatted since the RQDX1/2 doesn't know
anything about RD31 or RD32? The Pro tech manual describes a
formatting function that lets you lay down a low-level format for a
given track. Could a drive be formatted in the field using the Pro or
did the drive just come pre-formatted?
8 May
8 May
10:53 a.m.
On Mon, 7 May 2007, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote:
Can the drives be formatted on a VAXstation 2000 and
moved to a PRO ?
(like you can do from a VS2000 to a PDP-11 (with RQDX3 ?))
I doubt it.
Folks have been talking about formatting on an RQDX1. The RQDX1 uses a
different format than that used by the RQDX2 and the VS2000. You can't
format a disk on an RQDX1 and use it in an RQDX2.
The RQDX2 was built around a single-chip disk controller, SMC's HDC9224.
The same controller was used in the VS2000. The RQDX1 had a hand-crafted
disk controller that used a slightly different format. Among other
things, an RQDX1 can stuff 18 sectors on a track whereas the RQDX2,
VS2000, and PCs for that matter can only do 17.
Rumor has it there are also other differences in the format between the
RQDX1 and the RQDX2, but I really don't recall what they are.
I know nothing about the details of the low-level format used by the Pro
350, but if it's compatible with the RQDX1, it won't be compatible with
the RQDX2 and VS2000.
--
roger ivie
rivie at ridgenet.net
12:04 p.m.
Roger Ivie wrote:
Folks have been talking about formatting on an RQDX1. The RQDX1 uses a
different format than that used by the RQDX2 and the VS2000. You can't
format a disk on an RQDX1 and use it in an RQDX2.
Did you mean RQDX3 (instead of RQDX2)?
After reading the documentation (RT-11 V5.04 release notes), the Pro is
capable of formatting the hard disk itself. RT11 even includes a program
for that purpose. It can only format standard drive types of course.
DW.SYS (Pro hard disk for RT-11) includes geometries for RD50, RD51,
RD52C, RD52Q, RD52A, RD53 and RD31. The handler identifies the drive by
determining the number of heads and then when there is a conflict the
number of cylinders. The hardware only supports 8 heads (3 select
lines). The driver does not support partitions so there is a maximum of
65535 blocks no matter how big the disk.
So, it looks like it would be much easier to get a non-standard drive to
work with a Pro than with an RQDX3 for example.
-chuck
12:20 p.m.
On 5/8/07, C H Dickman <chd_1 at nktelco.net> wrote:
After reading the documentation (RT-11 V5.04 release
notes), the Pro is
capable of formatting the hard disk itself. RT11 even includes a program
for that purpose. It can only format standard drive types of course.
DW.SYS (Pro hard disk for RT-11) includes geometries for RD50, RD51,
RD52C, RD52Q, RD52A, RD53 and RD31...
The hardware only supports 8 heads (3 select
lines). The driver does not support partitions so there is a maximum of
65535 blocks no matter how big the disk.
So does anyone have any docs to check for later versions of RT-11 and
supported geometries? I'm specifically thinking of the RD32 (ST-251)
of which I have a couple on hand.
the drive would support more than 65536 blocks, but I certainly
wouldn't be upset if RT-11 gave up at the 32MB mark.
-ethan
12:49 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 5/8/07, C H Dickman <chd_1 at nktelco.net>
wrote:
Without the details to use larger drives (>32mb) use the LD driver to
partition it.
Personally ST251s while they work tend to run warm and fail often as a result.
If you want the 251 to last cooling is important. I tend to use ST225s (20mb)
as they are bullet proof and heat is not a significant problem for them.
For the ultimate in bullet proof RD52 (quantum D540) it's the fastest,
most realiable and runs cool plus it's just under 31MB. I try to use them
exclusively as I've not had one fail (I have 10 of them).
Allison
After reading the documentation (RT-11 V5.04
release notes), the Pro is
capable of formatting the hard disk itself. RT11 even includes a program
for that purpose. It can only format standard drive types of course.
DW.SYS (Pro hard disk for RT-11) includes geometries for RD50, RD51,
RD52C, RD52Q, RD52A, RD53 and RD31...
The hardware only supports 8 heads (3 select
lines). The driver does not support partitions so there is a maximum of
65535 blocks no matter how big the disk.
So does anyone have any docs to check for later versions of RT-11 and
supported geometries? I'm specifically thinking of the RD32 (ST-251)
of which I have a couple on hand.
the drive would support more than 65536 blocks, but I certainly
wouldn't be upset if RT-11 gave up at the 32MB mark.
-ethan
3:24 p.m.
On Tue, 8 May 2007, C H Dickman wrote:
Roger Ivie wrote:
Indeed, I did. I realized that just after punching SEND. The RQDX2 is
pretty similar to the RQDX1.
The RQDX3 and VS2000 formats are compatible.
--
roger ivie
rivie at ridgenet.net
Folks have been talking about formatting on an RQDX1. The RQDX1 uses a
different format than that used by the RQDX2 and the VS2000. You can't
format a disk on an RQDX1 and use it in an RQDX2.
Did you mean RQDX3 (instead of RQDX2)? 
12:56 p.m.
On 08/05/2007 15:53, Roger Ivie wrote:
On Mon, 7 May 2007, Curtis H. Wilbar Jr. wrote:
That's incorrect; I suspect you're thinking of the RQDX3. The RQDX2 is
just a modified RQDX1, and it definitely uses the same controller. They
both put 18 sectors per track, and use the same format. You can take a
disk formatted on an RQDX1 and connect it to an RQDX2, though in some
cases the RQDX2 will alter some values on the disk and then it won't be
recognised properly if you move it back to the RQDX1 (depending on the
level of firmware on the two controllers).
The RQDX3 definitely *is* different, and you have to reformat hard
drives for that (and AFAIR *that's* the same format as VS2000).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Can the drives be formatted on a VAXstation 2000
and moved to a PRO ?
(like you can do from a VS2000 to a PDP-11 (with RQDX3 ?))
I doubt it.
Folks have been talking about formatting on an RQDX1. The RQDX1 uses a
different format than that used by the RQDX2 and the VS2000. You can't
format a disk on an RQDX1 and use it in an RQDX2.
The RQDX2 was built around a single-chip disk controller, SMC's HDC9224.
The same controller was used in the VS2000. The RQDX1 had a hand-crafted
disk controller that used a slightly different format. Among other
things, an RQDX1 can stuff 18 sectors on a track whereas the RQDX2,
VS2000, and PCs for that matter can only do 17. 
6:46 p.m.
On May 8, 2007, at 12:56 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
The RQDX3 definitely *is* different, and you have to
reformat hard
drives for that (and AFAIR *that's* the same format as VS2000).
Almost...different interleave, if I recall correctly, so it's
better to do the format with the RQDX3.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
6262
days inactive
6263
days old
10 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ajp166＠bellatlantic.net -
chd_1＠nktelco.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
rescue＠hawkmountain.net -
rivie＠ridgenet.net