15 Apr
2015
15 Apr
'15
3:26 a.m.
Great!
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
Data:15/04/2015 10:44 (GMT+01:00)
A: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Oggetto: Re: IBM 5120 Operator Training Manual - GA34-0132-1
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015, supervinx wrote:
Do you know if somehone has scanned this manual?
A search gave no result...
You're lucky! I've found this manual. I'll scan it.
Christian
15 Apr
15 Apr
6:01 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5120 Operator Training Manual - GA34-0132-1
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015, supervinx wrote:
You're lucky! I've found this manual. I'll
scan it.
As usual on our FTP server at /pub/cm/ibm/ibm5110/
files GA34-0130-1_IBM5120_GeneralInformationSitePrep_Mar1980.pdf and
GA34-0132-1_IBM5120_OperatorTraining_Mar1980.pdf
Christian
28 Apr
28 Apr
2:05 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
As some of you know, Mike Brutman recently kicked
me off Erik Klein's excellent Vintage Computer
Forum, for no reason other than Mike's ego and the
chip on his shoulder as far as I and the folks who
wrote me unsolicited notes of support can tell:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?45454-5162-serial-po…
Apparently some folks also wrote to Erik on my
behalf, but he's chosen to not reply...
Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment
and Mike's insults, no problem; more time to spend
elsewhere and an excuse to finally get rid of the
PC-related systems, motherboards, cards, disks &
drives, docs etc. that I've been hanging on to for
close to 40 years in case someone might need/want
something some day.
But being cut off arbitrarily and without warning
or recourse from my contacts and email archive at
VCF might affect some other folks; among other
things, I have here, boxed and ready for shipping
to someone on VCF but no idea to whom, the
following items:
- Vector Graphic S100 Bitstreamer II and
Micropolis Floppy Controller cards.
- Wright Line manual 80 column printing card
punch.
- Mohawk Data Sciences keyboard.
AFAIR the floppy controller and the keyboard were
both going to someone in Canada, one in BC and the
other here in Ontario, and the rest in the US.
If any of those folks happen to read this, please
get in touch with me off-list.
Thanks,
mike
4:59 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment and Mike's insults,
no problem; more time to spend elsewhere and an excuse to finally get
rid of the PC-related systems, motherboards, cards, disks & drives,
docs etc. that I've been hanging on to for close to 40 years in case
someone might need/want something some day.
Mike,
Hey sorry to hear about you being banned. Not sure exactly what the history
is there but Erik is a pretty reasonable guy and hopefully it gets resolved
soon. So are you sure you want to go all drastic and get rid of your stuff
just because of a silly ban?
-Ali (Shadow Lord on VCF)
29 Apr
29 Apr
9:13 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ali" <cctalk at fahimi.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 7:59 PM
Mike,
Hey sorry to hear about you being banned. Not
sure exactly what the history
is there but Erik is a pretty reasonable guy and
hopefully it gets resolved
soon. So are you sure you want to go all drastic
and get rid of your stuff
just because of a silly ban?
-Ali (Shadow Lord on VCF)
Thanks, Ali,
I'm not the only one, but Mike and I do have a
history for some reason going back quite a few
years; Erik's definitely a good guy, so maybe he's
just busy or the emails got lost.
I didn't mean to say that I'm getting rid of all
my stuff specifically _because of_ the ban, just
that being told that I'm not welcome on VCF gave
me an opportunity to stop and think about all the
various aspects and perspectives of this whole
hobby and community, the time and money spent, the
friends I've made and the folks I've
unintentionally annoyed, the rewards and the
aggravation, the few contributions I've made, etc.
etc., and even to look at the piles of parts and
docs (especially the PC stuff) the way my 'normal'
friends do, as just so much old junk that could
bring a few bucks at the recycler...
But then just a couple of weeks ago I was able to
help someone on here out with a part that got his
vintage LJ-IIp going again, so there is that
gratifying side of it, to be sure...
Finally, I am pushing 70, so it's time to start
making things a little easier for my executors...
m
10:10 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015, Mike Stein wrote:
But then just a couple of weeks ago I was able to help
someone on here out
with a part that got his vintage LJ-IIp going again, so there is that
gratifying side of it, to be sure...
Yes, helping each other is what makes it all worthwhile.
Finally, I am pushing 70, so it's time to start
making things a little easier
for my executors...
I sure know THAT feeling. I keep having to change my will as
the folk
around me keep dropping.
Not only make a will, but make sure that the right people will have it in
a timely manner. When my best friend died, his will wasn't found for a
long time, by which time, a lot of stuff had been dumpstered, including
his LJIIP, and even his Leicas!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
12:56 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
I wouldn't feel too bad about pitching it ... maybe 15 years ago ... I
think if you search on the Web, you can still find my post to classiccmp
about it ... I had just oodles of old DOS-compatible PCs ... 8088/8086/286
motherboards, boxes upon boxes of ISA cards of all types, floppy drives,
MFM/RLL hard drives ... probably at least 20 complete old systems ...
286/386/486 ... ISA/VLB; low-end MCA systems ... I just pitched the lot of
it ... I couldn't even give it away. In retrospect, I wish I would have
pulled some of the socketed ICs for my parts bin, but other than that, I
don't really miss any of it ... I get more excited by the workstations and
minis ... if I want an 8-bit computer, I can build one; it's more fun that
way, LOL ... so I got rid of all the old home computer stuff ... Commodore
64, Apple // and all the old DOS-compatible systems and focused on the
stuff I really cared about. Can't save it all.
Best,
Sean
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015, Mike Stein wrote:
But then just a couple of weeks ago I was able to
help someone on here
out with a part that got his vintage LJ-IIp going again, so there is that
gratifying side of it, to be sure...
Yes, helping each other is what makes it all worthwhile.
Finally, I am pushing 70, so it's time to start making things a little
easier for my executors...
I sure know THAT feeling. I keep having to change my will as the folk
around me keep dropping.
Not only make a will, but make sure that the right people will have it in
a timely manner. When my best friend died, his will wasn't found for a
long time, by which time, a lot of stuff had been dumpstered, including his
LJIIP, and even his Leicas!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1:29 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Not only make a will, but make sure that the right
people will have it in
a timely manner. When my best friend died, his will wasn't found for a
In my case it's simplified by having the exector and beneficiary the same
person (this it totally legal in the UK, I am not sure about elserwhere, but
I can't see why it wouldn't be). I have given him a copy of my will with
'COPY' written across it so that when the time comes he has reasonable
evidence that a will exists and that he should search for it.
In any case, if you have close family members, etc, make sure they know you
have made a will and if so, where it is kept.
long time, by which time, a lot of stuff had been
dumpstered, including
his LJIIP, and even his Leicas!
Anybody who does not know that a Leica is a valuable camera needs to be
educated! With a clue-by-four. Or a 560mm Telyt used in the same manner :-)
-tony
1:45 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Here in the US, you can set up a living trust.
If done correctly, there is no need for probate court, lawyers, or
additional costs.
I had mine done a few surgeries ago, and is is nice to know that it will
make things easier, quicker, and less expensive for my family. Most Lawyers
don't like them because they make a lot of money in probate.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 3:29 PM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Not only make a will, but make sure that the
right people will have it in
a timely manner. When my best friend died, his will wasn't found for a
In my case it's simplified by having the exector and beneficiary the same
person (this it totally legal in the UK, I am not sure about elserwhere,
but
I can't see why it wouldn't be). I have given him a copy of my will with
'COPY' written across it so that when the time comes he has reasonable
evidence that a will exists and that he should search for it.
In any case, if you have close family members, etc, make sure they know you
have made a will and if so, where it is kept.
long time, by which time, a lot of stuff had been
dumpstered, including
his LJIIP, and even his Leicas!
Anybody who does not know that a Leica is a valuable camera needs to be
educated! With a clue-by-four. Or a 560mm Telyt used in the same manner :-)
-tony
1:56 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Here in the US, you can set up a living trust.
If done correctly, there is no need for probate court, lawyers, or
additional costs.
I had mine done a few surgeries ago, and is is nice to know that it
will make things easier, quicker, and less expensive for my family.
Most Lawyers don't like them because they make a lot of money in
probate.
Not to go way OT but:
They don't? Mine was more than happy to take my money! :) You have to go to the right
lawyer - i.e. one specializing in trusts. For those guys it is easy money because for the
most part it is boiler plate work.
In the US you should have a Living Trust (to avoid tax issues), a will, a Durable Power of
Attorney, and an Advance Directive. You don't want to know how many time in my line of
work I run into people without the last two and the headaches it causes for us and the
families.....
2:03 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 01:56:04PM -0700, Ali wrote:
This is way OT but it is hitting a very raw nerve right now for me.
My mother died April 21. Guess who did not have a PoA, Will or pre-arranged
funeral? Yes, my mother.
Please. If you have children, please do a will and pre-arrange funeral.
It is cruel otherwise. Very cruel.
Diane
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
Here in the
US, you can set up a living trust.
If done correctly, there is no need for probate court, lawyers, or
additional costs.
I had mine done a few surgeries ago, and is is nice to know that it
will make things easier, quicker, and less expensive for my family.
Most Lawyers don't like them because they make a lot of money in
probate.
Not to go way OT but:
They don't? Mine was more than happy to take my money! :) You have to go to the right
lawyer - i.e. one specializing in trusts. For those guys it is easy money because for the
most part it is boiler plate work.
In the US you should have a Living Trust (to avoid tax issues), a will, a Durable Power
of Attorney, and an Advance Directive. You don't want to know how many time in my line
of work I run into people without the last two and the headaches it causes for us and the
families.....
2:26 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
The person who did my will, which referred to the trust, living will,
living trust, and real estate trust ( I think that's what they are called)
is both an attorney and a CPA. Most of his family all work in the
investment/ estate planning field. The total for everything was less than
$1000.
There was a fee ($12?) for the county to change the name on the deed, and
they didn't even look at the trust. My banks all have copies, and if
anything happens to me my sons have immediate access to everything.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Diane Bruce <db at db.net> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 01:56:04PM -0700, Ali wrote:
to
the right lawyer - i.e. one specializing in trusts. For those guys it is
easy money because for the most part it is boiler plate work.
This is way OT but it is hitting a very raw nerve right now for me.
My mother died April 21. Guess who did not have a PoA, Will or pre-arranged
funeral? Yes, my mother.
Please. If you have children, please do a will and pre-arrange funeral.
It is cruel otherwise. Very cruel.
Diane
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
Here in
the US, you can set up a living trust.
If done correctly, there is no need for probate court, lawyers, or
additional costs.
I had mine done a few surgeries ago, and is is nice to know that it
will make things easier, quicker, and less expensive for my family.
Most Lawyers don't like them because they make a lot of money in
probate.
Not to go way OT but:
They don't? Mine was more than happy to take my money! :) You have to go
In the US you should have a Living Trust (to avoid tax issues), a will,
a Durable
Power of Attorney, and an Advance Directive. You don't want to
know how many time in my line of work I run into people without the last
two and the headaches it causes for us and the families.....
11:50 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 05:03:57PM -0400, Diane Bruce wrote:
This is way OT but it is hitting a very raw nerve right now for me.
My mother died April 21. Guess who did not have a PoA, Will or pre-arranged
funeral? Yes, my mother.
Please. If you have children, please do a will and pre-arrange funeral.
It is cruel otherwise. Very cruel.
I'm sorry for your loss.
But I'm somewhat astonished how complex this issue seems to be in the
US. I'm not going to say Sweden is in anyway perfect, I have heard about
several conflicts regarding wills.
Normally, if there are no outstanding debts, the process is rather
straightforward. If there is no will, your children and your spouse will
inherit all your possesions. And that is a birthright, you can't even
testament that away.
Most conflicts I've heard of are between children that don't agree how
to split things evenly or fight over an, essentially, illegal will.
Regards,
Pontus.
2 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Not only make a will, but make sure that the right
people will have it in
a timely manner. When my best friend died, his will wasn't found for a
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015, tony duell wrote:
In my case it's simplified by having the exector
and beneficiary the
same person (this it totally legal in the UK, I am not sure about
elserwhere, but I can't see why it wouldn't be).
It is legal in California. My friend had made a will 40? years ago,
with a friend as the executor and beneficiary. HE knew that I had
been verbally promised the Leicas. But, the county seized the property,
locking us out, until the will was found, and the beneficiary/executor
died before it was found.
I have given him a copy of my will with
'COPY' written across it so that when the time comes he has reasonable
evidence that a will exists and that he should search for it.
Although we had
known the basic terms of the will, without having a copy
as proof, they would not let us do any of the searching.
In any case, if you have close family members, etc,
make sure they know
you have made a will and if so, where it is kept.
When Don Maslin died (before that, my will had bequeathed my collection of
alien floppies to him!), his wife had no idea what anything was, nor where
things were.
Some folk made some heroic efforts, and a lot of his collection of disk
images were found, but not the original disk themselves.
Anybody who does not know that a Leica is a valuable
camera needs to be
educated! With a clue-by-four. Or a 560mm Telyt used in the same manner
:-)
Be careful with that Telyt! If I knew which of several people had
discarded the "obsolete" (not even digital!) cameras, I would dumpster
them. and then drop a few tons of Dells into the same skip.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
11 May
11 May
10:27 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
At 12:10 PM 4/29/2015, Fred Cisin wrote:
Not only make a will, but make sure that the right
people will have it in a timely manner. When my best friend died, his will wasn't
found for a long time, by which time, a lot of stuff had been dumpstered, including his
LJIIP, and even his Leicas!
I hope you consider making a Virtual Grumpy Ol' Fred. Dump your
brain to web pages and videos uploaded to YouTube and you'll live forever.
Perhaps a method we can all avoid Leicas in the Dumpster is to put a
price tag on everything before you go. Even the simplest Dumpster-tossing
cleanup person / relative understands a dollar sign.
- John
28 Apr
28 Apr
8:50 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
On 04/28/2015 04:05 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment and
Mike's insults, no problem; more time to spend elsewhere
and an excuse to finally get rid of the PC-related
systems, motherboards, cards, disks & drives, docs etc.
that I've been hanging on to for close to 40 years in case
someone might need/want something some day.
Have a '286 PC? I have a pick and place system that uses a
massive proprietary board that is essentially a 286 PC,
but with lots of EPROM and battery-backed static RAM.
I got rid of all my 286 gear almost 20 years ago, and now
worry just a little about spares.
- Mohawk Data Sciences keyboard.
I had the 36" fixed-head disk off a MEM-O-REE accounting
machine, made by MDS. I have seen some of the consoles off
them in surplus stores many years ago. If that is what you
have, it is a bunch of TTL wire-wrapped into a small box
with a keypad and displays. It was not just the keyboard,
it was the whole accounting machine (no CPU at all).
Jon
10:02 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Sorry, but what is this drama about, again?
Dare I even ask?
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:50 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 04/28/2015 04:05 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment and Mike's insults, no
problem; more time to spend elsewhere and an excuse to finally get rid of
the PC-related systems, motherboards, cards, disks & drives, docs etc. that
I've been hanging on to for close to 40 years in case someone might
need/want something some day.
Have a '286 PC? I have a pick and place system that uses a massive
proprietary board that is essentially a 286 PC,
but with lots of EPROM and battery-backed static RAM.
I got rid of all my 286 gear almost 20 years ago, and now worry just a
little about spares.
- Mohawk Data Sciences keyboard.
I had the 36" fixed-head disk off a MEM-O-REE accounting machine, made
by
MDS. I have seen some of the consoles off them in surplus stores many
years ago. If that is what you have, it is a bunch of TTL wire-wrapped
into a small box with a keypad and displays. It was not just the keyboard,
it was the whole accounting machine (no CPU at all).
Jon
29 Apr
29 Apr
12:47 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Apparently, if you're not allowed to post on a forum, you immediately go to
your massive piles of everything you have that that forum covers and you
immediately throw it out
On Apr 29, 2015 1:03 AM, "drlegendre ." <drlegendre at gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry, but what is this drama about, again?
Dare I even ask?
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:50 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com>
wrote:
keyboard,
On 04/28/2015 04:05 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
>
>
> Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment and Mike's insults,
no
> problem; more time to spend elsewhere and an
excuse to finally get rid
of
> the PC-related systems, motherboards, cards,
disks & drives, docs etc.
that
I've
been hanging on to for close to 40 years in case someone might
need/want something some day.
Have a '286 PC? I have a pick and place system that uses a massive
proprietary board that is essentially a 286 PC,
but with lots of EPROM and battery-backed static RAM.
I got rid of all my 286 gear almost 20 years ago, and now worry just a
little about spares.
- Mohawk Data Sciences keyboard.
I had the 36" fixed-head disk off a MEM-O-REE accounting machine, made
by
MDS. I have seen some of the consoles off them in surplus stores many
years ago. If that is what you have, it is a bunch of TTL wire-wrapped
into a small box with a keypad and displays. It was not just the it was the whole accounting machine (no CPU at
all).
Jon
7:52 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Wait... there's some other classic computer related list? Surely not *GRIN*
Mike, glad you're here and able to still contribute on this list.
That being said, lets keep the other list drama off here :)
J
9:20 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Thanks, Jay; I appreciate your kind words,
especially since I've occasionally unintentionally
made myself a little unwelcome on this list as
well...
m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright
card punch, MDS Keyboard
Wait... there's some other classic computer
related list? Surely not *GRIN*
Mike, glad you're here and able to still
contribute on this list.
That being said, lets keep the other list drama
off here :)
J
8:35 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Scott" <jason at textfiles.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 3:47 AM
Subject: Re: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright
card punch, MDS Keyboard
Apparently, if you're not allowed to post on a
forum, you immediately go to
your massive piles of everything you have that
that forum covers and you
immediately throw it out
Well, not quite. Let's face it, aside from the
occasional post here like the one below and eBay,
VCF is really the place where most folks who might
be looking for a '286 motherboard hang out; not
being able to participate there was mainly a
wake-up call, an occasion to reflect on whether
hanging on to rooms full of PC cards etc. was
actually still (ever?) justified or really just
hoarding.
Al's asking on here a while back, "have you ever
added up how much it's cost you over the years to
store this stuff?" really brought it home for me;
quite a few thousands in my case since it fills an
apartment that I could be (and was, long ago)
renting out otherwise.
So I've just decided to get rid of a bunch of
stuff that many folks on here wouldn't consider
even remotely vintage anyway, about 50 or 60
systems, probably around a thousand each cards and
disk drives, etc. etc., leaving more room for my
S-100, 6502 and other miscellaneous stuff.
m
> >> Have a '286 PC? I have a pick and
place
> >> system that uses a massive
> > proprietary board that is essentially a 286
> > PC,
> > but with lots of EPROM and battery-backed
> > static RAM.
> > I got rid of all my 286 gear almost 20 years
> > ago, and now worry just a
> > little about spares.
6:43 p.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
I realize that this list isn't really for listing
items for sale or giving stuff away so I hope
you'll excuse this, but other than eBay and the
VCF forum & marketplace, where's a good place to
list items like the ones below to see if there's
any interest?
Sharp PC-5000 bubble memory portable w/printer
HP 45711B Portable Plus, c/w 2 x 9114 HPIL Disk
drives and a 2225B printer.
HP 18179A protocol analyzer
HP sheet plotter (IEEE/GPIB); (can't get at it to
look up the number right now)
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the
budding pediatrician among you.
m
7:11 p.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
---- Original Message -----
From: "Ali" <cctalk at fahimi.net>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: Where's a good place to list stuff?
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the
budding pediatrician among
you.
Not to be picky but that would be for the "budding
Obstetrician or Neonatologist" in you.... ;)
----- Reply -----
Duh; of course!
(but just between us, I'm not fussy; you can have
it regardless of your present or future specialty
;-)
7:31 p.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is a great place to give stuff
away so long as it is germane to the subject matter :O To me, the
"equipment available" posts are just as useful as the more technical posts
are stimulating... Regular commercial solicitation is probably a little
more frowned upon however I think there are a few folks subscribed that do
deal in parts on at least a quasi-commercial basis and would be happy to
make a sale if a list member needed an item ... I have no problem with
this; I think it's a great thing when a match can be made on equipment
without the gear hitting eBay ... Of course I'm not the mod; just my own
opinions.
Best,
Sean
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
---- Original Message ----- From: "Ali"
<cctalk at fahimi.net>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 9:56 PM
Subject: RE: Where's a good place to list stuff?
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the
budding pediatrician among
you.
Not to be picky but that would be for the "budding Obstetrician or
Neonatologist" in you.... ;)
----- Reply -----
Duh; of course!
(but just between us, I'm not fussy; you can have it regardless of your
present or future specialty ;-)
30 Apr
30 Apr
6:37 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
What Sean Carron said.... well put.
J
9:53 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
No question that this is an appropriate place to
give things away or sell for a token sum, and I
certainly prefer that for most trivial items.
But when I see items in my basement actually sell
for > $1000 on eBay I'm understandably reluctant
to give them away; on the other hand I don't think
that this is the place for them either as I've
seen enough posts from folks on collector forums
pillorying someone for what they consider
exorbitant prices being asked on eBay...
m
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Caron" <scaron at umich.edu>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>; "Sean Caron"
<scaron at umich.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Where's a good place to list stuff?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is a
great place to give stuff
away so long as it is germane to the subject
matter :O To me, the
"equipment available" posts are just as useful
as the more technical posts
are stimulating... Regular commercial
solicitation is probably a little
more frowned upon however I think there are a
few folks subscribed that do
deal in parts on at least a quasi-commercial
basis and would be happy to
make a sale if a list member needed an item ...
I have no problem with
this; I think it's a great thing when a match
can be made on equipment
without the gear hitting eBay ... Of course I'm
not the mod; just my own
opinions.
Best,
Sean
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Mike Stein
<mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Ali"
> <cctalk at fahimi.net>
> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and
> Off-Topic Posts'" <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 9:56 PM
> Subject: RE: Where's a good place to list
> stuff?
>
>
>
> and the piece de resistance:
>> An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the
>> budding pediatrician among
>> you.
>>
>
> Not to be picky but that would be for the
> "budding Obstetrician or
> Neonatologist" in you.... ;)
>
> ----- Reply -----
>
> Duh; of course!
>
> (but just between us, I'm not fussy; you can
> have it regardless of your
> present or future specialty ;-)
>
29 Apr
29 Apr
8:01 p.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
Mike wrote...
-----
I realize that this list isn't really for listing items for sale or giving stuff away
so I hope you'll excuse this, but other than $$$$$ and the XXXXX forum &
marketplace, where's a good place to list items like the ones below to see if
there's any interest?
----
While this list isn't meant to be primarily a shopping spot.... if you have something
classiccmp related to sell or give away... by all means THIS IS THE PLACE.
All I ask is that the same items aren't posted over and over, and that it's not a
place for commercial vendors to post daily for-sale lists.
Best,
J
8:39 p.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: Where's a good place to list stuff?
Mike wrote...
-----
I realize that this list isn't really for listing
items for sale or giving stuff away so I hope
you'll excuse this, but other than $$$$$ and the
XXXXX forum & marketplace, where's a good place to
list items like the ones below to see if there's
any interest?
----
While this list isn't meant to be primarily a
shopping spot.... if you have something classiccmp
related to sell or give away... by all means THIS
IS THE PLACE.
All I ask is that the same items aren't posted
over and over, and that it's not a place for
commercial vendors to post daily for-sale lists.
Best,
J
8:41 p.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: Where's a good place to list stuff?
Mike wrote...
-----
I realize that this list isn't really for listing
items for sale or giving stuff away so I hope
you'll excuse this, but other than $$$$$ and the
XXXXX forum & marketplace, where's a good place to
list items like the ones below to see if there's
any interest?
----
While this list isn't meant to be primarily a
shopping spot.... if you have something classiccmp
related to sell or give away... by all means THIS
IS THE PLACE.
All I ask is that the same items aren't posted
over and over, and that it's not a place for
commercial vendors to post daily for-sale lists.
Best,
J
----- Reply -----
Understood; what I meant was that this isn't
primarily a buy/sell list the way $$$ and XXX are,
and I wondered if there were indeed any other
places aimed mainly at buying/trading this sort of
stuff.
m
30 Apr
30 Apr
midnight
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Stein
Sent: 30 April 2015 02:44
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
I realize that this list isn't really for listing items for sale or giving stuff away
so
I hope you'll excuse this, but other than eBay and the VCF forum &
marketplace, where's a good place to list items like the ones below to see if
there's any interest?
Sharp PC-5000 bubble memory portable w/printer
HP 45711B Portable Plus, c/w 2 x 9114 HPIL Disk drives and a 2225B printer.
HP 18179A protocol analyzer
HP sheet plotter (IEEE/GPIB); (can't get at it to look up the number right now)
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the budding pediatrician among you.
m
I have always fancied getting a protocol analyser, so I tried to find some information on
the one you mention. The model number appears to be just an RS-232 interface pod, rather
than a complete analyser, so I am not sure exactly what you have there. I have been trying
to find a spec or a manual so that I know the capabilities, but have failed so far.
Anyway, I suspect you are in the USA so it would probably be too expensive to ship it to
me in the UK, unless you know of some cheap-ish shipping method?
Regards
Rob
8:07 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
Hi Robert,
Those old HP protocol analyzers are useful little buggers ... my tip is go
and get the newest all-in-one unit that they produced; this is the 4957A,
and if you hit eBay at the right time ... you should have no problem
finding one for $25 or so. I didn't pay much more for mine in perfect
working condition. Serves many purposes including mini-terminal, serial
data generator, "smart breakout box" and so on...
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=1124
... and all for basically the same price as you'd pay for a "dumb" little
RS-232 shunt/break-out box "new".
You will see tons of the older protocol analyzers around at around the same
price ... doesn't make a lot of sense to me ... might as well get the most
modern you can, for the dollar ... they are very common; you shouldn't have
too much trouble finding a good deal on one ... It's been a nice addition
to my lab... everyone who sees it, suddenly wants one :O
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Robert Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com
wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Stein
Sent: 30 April 2015 02:44
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
I realize that this list isn't really for listing items for sale or
giving
stuff away so
I hope you'll excuse this, but other than
eBay and the VCF forum &
marketplace, where's a good place to list items like the ones below to
see if
there's any interest?
Sharp PC-5000 bubble memory portable w/printer
HP 45711B Portable Plus, c/w 2 x 9114 HPIL Disk drives and a 2225B
printer.
HP 18179A protocol analyzer
HP sheet plotter (IEEE/GPIB); (can't get at it to look up the number
right
now)
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the budding pediatrician among
you.
m
I have always fancied getting a protocol analyser, so I tried to find some
information on the one you mention. The model number appears to be just an
RS-232 interface pod, rather than a complete analyser, so I am not sure
exactly what you have there. I have been trying to find a spec or a manual
so that I know the capabilities, but have failed so far.
Anyway, I suspect you are in the USA so it would probably be too expensive
to ship it to me in the UK, unless you know of some cheap-ish shipping
method?
Regards
Rob
8:09 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
That p/n is just a break-out-box for the earlier 4951 model. It won't do
anything without the actual protocol analyzer unit to connect to. The HP
Computer Museum has the whole back-story on these; it's worth perusing
before you buy:
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=1123
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Robert Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com
wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Stein
Sent: 30 April 2015 02:44
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
I realize that this list isn't really for listing items for sale or
giving
stuff away so
I hope you'll excuse this, but other than
eBay and the VCF forum &
marketplace, where's a good place to list items like the ones below to
see if
there's any interest?
Sharp PC-5000 bubble memory portable w/printer
HP 45711B Portable Plus, c/w 2 x 9114 HPIL Disk drives and a 2225B
printer.
HP 18179A protocol analyzer
HP sheet plotter (IEEE/GPIB); (can't get at it to look up the number
right
now)
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the budding pediatrician among
you.
m
I have always fancied getting a protocol analyser, so I tried to find some
information on the one you mention. The model number appears to be just an
RS-232 interface pod, rather than a complete analyser, so I am not sure
exactly what you have there. I have been trying to find a spec or a manual
so that I know the capabilities, but have failed so far.
Anyway, I suspect you are in the USA so it would probably be too expensive
to ship it to me in the UK, unless you know of some cheap-ish shipping
method?
Regards
Rob
10:05 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
The model number appears to be just an RS-232
interface pod...
Duh again! It's a 4951B.
The pod with that number sits on top (in front ?)
of the unit so at a fast glance that was the
number I saw; to see the number of the unit you
have to remove the pod and flip out the keyboard.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Jarratt"
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 3:00 AM
Subject: RE: Where's a good place to list stuff?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf
Of Mike Stein
Sent: 30 April 2015 02:44
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts
Subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
I realize that this list isn't really for
listing items for sale or giving stuff away so
I hope you'll excuse this, but other than eBay
and the VCF forum &
marketplace, where's a good place to list items
like the ones below to see if
there's any interest?
Sharp PC-5000 bubble memory portable w/printer
HP 45711B Portable Plus, c/w 2 x 9114 HPIL Disk
drives and a 2225B printer.
HP 18179A protocol analyzer
HP sheet plotter (IEEE/GPIB); (can't get at it
to look up the number right now)
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the
budding pediatrician among you.
m
I have always fancied getting a protocol analyser,
so I tried to find some information on the one you
mention. The model number appears to be just an
RS-232 interface pod, rather than a complete
analyser, so I am not sure exactly what you have
there. I have been trying to find a spec or a
manual so that I know the capabilities, but have
failed so far.
Anyway, I suspect you are in the USA so it would
probably be too expensive to ship it to me in the
UK, unless you know of some cheap-ish shipping
method?
Regards
Rob
10:27 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
A very nice serial analyzer.
The model
number appears to be just an RS-232 interface pod...
Duh again! It's a 4951B. The pod with that number sits on top (in front ?) of
the unit so at a fast
glance that was the number I saw; to see the number of the unit you have to
remove the pod and flip out the keyboard.
Yep. There are several different pods - RS232, RS423, RS449...
It's good to know exactly which pod when shopping for those. I don't
recall seeing too many loose pods, just ones attached to whole units.
One handy thing about the HP units - unlike the TU58, the HP 4951s can
format a tape.
-ethan
1:51 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Stein
Sent: 30 April 2015 02:44
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
I realize that this list isn't really for listing items for sale or giving stuff away
so
I hope you'll excuse this, but other than eBay and the VCF forum &
marketplace, where's a good place to list items like the ones below to see if
there's any interest?
There is also the MARCH list, and also often specific lists for special equipment, but it
seems many of the other sites are laced with scammers. I recently posted a
"wanted" on the British Amateur Radio Teledata Group "BARTG" asking
about Creed parts and had some scammer from New Jersey offering to sell me them. It was
only as I knew that shipping from the USA would be expensive I googled the e-mail address
only to find the same guy spends his life trawling sites for "wanted" adds and
offers to sell you anything old and rare, including computer, radio auto and motor cycle
parts. These days its simple enough to ask for a photo of the part. You can then usually
use google image search to see which web site he stole it from...
A friend also tried to sell a piano on GumTree. He has had nothing but sob stories of
folks wanted him to pay to ship it to themselves.
He also tried LOOT (I don't think you have it in the US) with similar results.
Even AutoTrader(UK) seems tainted. I recently googled one vendor who seemed to have less
expensive motorbikes, again to find several folks with tails of scams over the years.
So I guess the old adage "Buyer Beware" is still true, and E-Bay seems a well
regulated market place.
Sharp PC-5000 bubble memory portable w/printer
HP 45711B Portable Plus, c/w 2 x 9114 HPIL Disk drives and a 2225B printer.
HP 18179A protocol analyzer
HP sheet plotter (IEEE/GPIB); (can't get at it to look up the number right now)
Pity its in the US....
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the budding pediatrician among you.
m
Dave
G4UGM
2:18 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
Ebay is a good place to buy and sell. However if you are buying take a
few precautions.
Always use a credit card and PayPal together with Ebay's own protection
you stand a chance if there are problems.
Never never buy anything because its cheap or anything you are not
exactly sure what it is.
If its electronic collect if you can and see it run if thats possible.
Look for garage sale type of listings were there's a mix of items.
Its often the case tha you get a sale where people have passed on and
the house is being cleared.
Never buy something you want, always buy something you need.
Always set an upper limit on price and stick to it.
Rod
On 30/04/2015 09:51, Dave G4UGM wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Stein
Sent: 30 April 2015 02:44
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
I realize that this list isn't really for listing items for sale or giving stuff away
so
I hope you'll excuse this, but other than eBay and the VCF forum &
marketplace, where's a good place to list items like the ones below to see if
there's any interest?
There is also the MARCH list, and also often specific lists for special equipment,
but it seems many of the other sites are laced with scammers. I recently posted a
"wanted" on the British Amateur Radio Teledata Group "BARTG" asking
about Creed parts and had some scammer from New Jersey offering to sell me them. It was
only as I knew that shipping from the USA would be expensive I googled the e-mail address
only to find the same guy spends his life trawling sites for "wanted" adds and
offers to sell you anything old and rare, including computer, radio auto and motor cycle
parts. These days its simple enough to ask for a photo of the part. You can then usually
use google image search to see which web site he stole it from...
A friend also tried to sell a piano on GumTree. He has had nothing but sob stories of
folks wanted him to pay to ship it to themselves.
He also tried LOOT (I don't think you have it in the US) with similar results.
Even AutoTrader(UK) seems tainted. I recently googled one vendor who seemed to have less
expensive motorbikes, again to find several folks with tails of scams over the years.
So I guess the old adage "Buyer Beware" is still true, and E-Bay seems a well
regulated market place.
Sharp PC-5000 bubble memory portable w/printer
HP 45711B Portable Plus, c/w 2 x 9114 HPIL Disk drives and a 2225B printer.
HP 18179A protocol analyzer
HP sheet plotter (IEEE/GPIB); (can't get at it to look up the number right now)
Pity its in the US....
and the piece de resistance:
An HP fetal monitor (without probes) for the budding pediatrician among you.
m
Dave
G4UGM
6:17 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
* Rod Smallwood <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> [150430 05:17]:
Ebay is a good place to buy and sell. However if you
are buying take a
few precautions.
Always use a credit card and PayPal together with Ebay's own protection
you stand a chance if there are problems.
Never never buy anything because its cheap or anything you are not
exactly sure what it is.
If its electronic collect if you can and see it run if thats possible.
Look for garage sale type of listings were there's a mix of items.
Its often the case tha you get a sale where people have passed on and
the house is being cleared.
Never buy something you want, always buy something you need.
Always set an upper limit on price and stick to it.
Rod
I've purchased many items off eBay. Buying cheap is fine as long as you
understand and check out the description carefully and ask questions if
things aren't clear.
There aren't many deals to be found on eBay anymore (IMNSHO anyway) for
vintage computer gear. Test equipment is a different story.
Never buy something you want??? That would be really sad as there's not
much on eBay that one would need.
I certainly agree with setting an upper limit and sticking to it. Good
advice for any auctions you might attend (in person or remotely.)
Just my opinion,
Todd
7:51 a.m.
New subject: Where's a good place to list stuff?
On Apr 29, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
I realize that this list isn't really for listing
items for sale or giving stuff away so I hope
you'll excuse this, but other than eBay and the
VCF forum & marketplace, where's a good place to
list items like the ones below to see if there's
any interest?
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/listings/listByCat.asp?catID=431&ending=Ite…
No experience with giving away items there, but I have bought items (Garmin GPS) and was
very satisfied. I think there isn?t any way for the collector losing the equipment to make
money, other that to claim the donation on their income tax.
I understand there have been bad experiences with specific Goodwill stores in several
locations; nice collections dumpstered, etc, so for really valuable things I?d use some
caution, but it sounds like much of Mike?s equipment is not in that category.
- Mark
29 Apr
29 Apr
8:04 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
----- Original Message -----
From: "drlegendre ." <drlegendre at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Cc: <General at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright
card punch, MDS Keyboard
Sorry, but what is this drama about, again?
Dare I even ask?
No drama, really. Read the thread and draw your
own conclusions; incidentally, you may also be
surprised as I was that the DOS /v verify option
does not in fact verify that a copy was correct:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?45454-5162-serial-po…
9:36 a.m.
New subject: /V (Was: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch,
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015, Mike Stein wrote:
incidentally, you may also be surprised as I was that
the DOS /v verify
option does not in fact verify that a copy was correct:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?45454-5162-serial-po…
"/V" is not a "DOS" option. It is an option internal to
many DOS programs, and maybe a few "internal" commands.
As such, EACH implementation of it is free to make its own
interpretation of what it might or SHOULD mean.
Although many people assume that it would mean confirming
that a copy is truly a duplicate of the original, its actual
use is usually merely to verify that the copy remains readable -
that the CRC "checksum" of each sector matches the CRC "checksum"
recorded in the header of that sector.
(as derived from its original use in the FORMAT program, where
the NEC "VERIFY" command is used to confirm readability of sector(s).)
Accordingly, many people assert that its behavior not matching
their assumption constitutes a "bug".
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:02 a.m.
New subject: /V (Was: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch,
On 04/29/2015 09:36 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Accordingly, many people assert that its behavior not
matching
their assumption constitutes a "bug".
In fact, under the NT-based systems, it's not clear that /V does
anything in the floppy case, probably because much of the data is
buffered and /V doesn't force a physical read-back.
--Chuck
8:40 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Elson" <elson at pico-systems.com>
To: <General at classiccmp.org>;
"Discussion at classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright
card punch, MDS Keyboard
Have a '286 PC? I have a pick and place system
that uses a massive proprietary board that is
essentially a 286 PC,
but with lots of EPROM and battery-backed static
RAM.
I got rid of all my 286 gear almost 20 years
ago, and now worry just a little about spares.
Jon
I do have some '286 systems, but it sounds like a
stock AT clone wouldn't really be useful as a
replacement for what you have there.
I'd definitely back up those EPROMs and the BIOS
though; most everything else could probably be
replaced.
m
7:10 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
On 04/29/2015 10:40 AM, Mike Stein wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon
Elson"
<elson at pico-systems.com>
To: <General at classiccmp.org>;
"Discussion at classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card
punch, MDS Keyboard
No, of course, the BOARD would not be useful, except as a
donor for parts. There are a number of socketed parts, as
wll as a bunch of other '286 support chips.
Have a '286 PC? I have a pick and place
system that uses
a massive proprietary board that is essentially a 286 PC,
but with lots of EPROM and battery-backed static RAM.
I got rid of all my 286 gear almost 20 years ago, and now
worry just a little about spares.
Jon
I do have some '286 systems, but it sounds like a stock AT
clone wouldn't really be useful as a replacement for what
you have there.
I'd definitely back up those EPROMs and the BIOS
though;
most everything else could probably be replaced.
Yeah, I'm almost afraid to
mess with it, but I really SHOULD
back up the EPROMS. There is no "BIOS", just the code in
the EPROMS. This is a very custom Yamaha "robot controller".
Jon
3 May
3 May
11:19 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Not to add too much to the drama but I don't think this should go unsaid:
1. It saddens me that part of your hobby is being ruined for you. You know
what? It saddens other people that you are ruining things for them too.
So stop with the constant nitpicking and snark, especially when replying to
people you already "have a history" with, and things like this won't
happen. Nobody is winning here.
2. The history is much longer and much deeper than the referenced thread.
Pointing out the tip of the iceberg and commenting on how that should not
have sunk a ship is deceptive. This history goes back four years and it
involves a few other members too. The cycle of flare-up, bans,
discussions, and un-bans has gotten old. And none of it has been done in a
vacuum - Erik is usually involved.
3. You consider my behavior insulting? I consider your behavior insulting
too. There are people writing me notes of encouragement too. None of this
means anything.
4. I've contacted Erik (again) to have him make a decision. He is not
responding, so I assume he is attending to real life. Want back in? Fine,
let's talk in private - mbbrutman at gmail.com. Or wait for Erik.
Mike
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
As some of you know, Mike Brutman recently kicked
me off Erik Klein's excellent Vintage Computer
Forum, for no reason other than Mike's ego and the
chip on his shoulder as far as I and the folks who
wrote me unsolicited notes of support can tell:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?45454-5162-serial-po…
Apparently some folks also wrote to Erik on my
behalf, but he's chosen to not reply...
Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment and Mike's insults, no
problem; more time to spend elsewhere and an excuse to finally get rid of
the PC-related systems, motherboards, cards, disks & drives, docs etc. that
I've been hanging on to for close to 40 years in case someone might
need/want something some day.
But being cut off arbitrarily and without warning
or recourse from my contacts and email archive at
VCF might affect some other folks; among other
things, I have here, boxed and ready for shipping
to someone on VCF but no idea to whom, the
following items:
- Vector Graphic S100 Bitstreamer II and
Micropolis Floppy Controller cards.
- Wright Line manual 80 column printing card
punch.
- Mohawk Data Sciences keyboard.
AFAIR the floppy controller and the keyboard were
both going to someone in Canada, one in BC and the
other here in Ontario, and the rest in the US.
If any of those folks happen to read this, please
get in touch with me off-list.
Thanks,
mike
4 May
4 May
7:56 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
[Yes, I'm top-posting after re-threading...unusual for me, that's for
certain, but this isn't the sort of thing I'd normally post and I want my
response to this up top.]
Mr. Brutman,
This thread was pretty well over and done with until your post below. Your
reply is in no way helpful, nor can it be taken as any sort of "peace
offering" with regards to the long-running feud between yourself and Mr.
Stein. I am also not about to allow your comment of "There are people
writing me notes of encouragement too." to stand.
To clarify for others unaware, knowing both parties involved, I contacted
both privately earlier last week and heard both "sides" of the story.
As far as I'm concerned, neither of you are blameless. You both have a
history of goading at each other and the forum link below and many other
public exchanges between the two of you make that quite clear. Heck, the
emails I received independently from the both of you try quite hard to
manipulate the facts and paint yourselves as being victims of each other.
Mr. Stein, you had to know you were going to piss Mr. Brutman off again
with that last forum exchange and get him to ban you. Mr. Brutman, you had
to know banning Mr. Stein was only going to cause this to flare up again.
Neither of you are victims and neither of you are blameless.
As I've previously mentioned to both of you, the two of you either need to
hash this out and squash it, or you need to ignore each other
completely...don't reply to, acknowledge, or even read each others' posts,
pretend the other party doesn't even exist.
While I think it would probably be better if you both could settle your
differences, if there is an inherent personality conflict, the two of you
may have to just settle for ignoring each other completely.
Stop squabbling like a couple of children. [Mooooommmmy, so-and-so put
bugs in my hair!] You are both grown ass men...settle this and act like
it.
On Sun, 3 May 2015, Michael Brutman wrote:
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Mike Stein
<mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
As some of you know, Mike Brutman recently kicked
me off Erik Klein's
excellent Vintage Computer Forum, for no reason other than Mike's ego
and the chip on his shoulder as far as I and the folks who wrote me
unsolicited notes of support can tell:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?45454-5162-serial-po…
Apparently some folks also wrote to Erik on my behalf, but he's chosen
to not reply...
Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment and Mike's insults,
no problem; more time to spend elsewhere and an excuse to finally get
rid of the PC-related systems, motherboards, cards, disks & drives,
docs etc. that I've been hanging on to for close to 40 years in case
someone might need/want something some day.
But being cut off arbitrarily and without warning or recourse from my
contacts and email archive at VCF might affect some other folks; among
other things, I have here, boxed and ready for shipping to someone on
VCF but no idea to whom, the following items:
Not to add too much to the drama but I don't think this should go unsaid:
1. It saddens me that part of your hobby is being ruined for you. You know
what? It saddens other people that you are ruining things for them too.
So stop with the constant nitpicking and snark, especially when replying to
people you already "have a history" with, and things like this won't
happen. Nobody is winning here.
2. The history is much longer and much deeper than the referenced thread.
Pointing out the tip of the iceberg and commenting on how that should not
have sunk a ship is deceptive. This history goes back four years and it
involves a few other members too. The cycle of flare-up, bans,
discussions, and un-bans has gotten old. And none of it has been done in a
vacuum - Erik is usually involved.
3. You consider my behavior insulting? I consider your behavior insulting
too. There are people writing me notes of encouragement too. None of this
means anything.
4. I've contacted Erik (again) to have him make a decision. He is not
responding, so I assume he is attending to real life. Want back in? Fine,
let's talk in private - mbbrutman at gmail.com. Or wait for Erik.
9:22 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
Hi.
I think I am allowed one response in a thread where the first sentence
starts with my name. My apologies.
Regards,
Mike
9:43 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
As you say both have much to ansvwer for.
That being so then remove both from whatever list(s) until such time as
they resolve a petty dispute that is without merit in both cases.
That way the rest of who get on just fine don't have to listen to any
more of this nonsense.
Rod Smallwood
On 04/05/2015 15:56, Tothwolf wrote:
[Yes, I'm top-posting after re-threading...unusual
for me, that's for
certain, but this isn't the sort of thing I'd normally post and I want
my response to this up top.]
Mr. Brutman,
This thread was pretty well over and done with until your post below.
Your reply is in no way helpful, nor can it be taken as any sort of
"peace offering" with regards to the long-running feud between
yourself and Mr. Stein. I am also not about to allow your comment of
"There are people writing me notes of encouragement too." to stand.
To clarify for others unaware, knowing both parties involved, I
contacted both privately earlier last week and heard both "sides" of
the story.
As far as I'm concerned, neither of you are blameless. You both have a
history of goading at each other and the forum link below and many
other public exchanges between the two of you make that quite clear.
Heck, the emails I received independently from the both of you try
quite hard to manipulate the facts and paint yourselves as being
victims of each other.
Mr. Stein, you had to know you were going to piss Mr. Brutman off
again with that last forum exchange and get him to ban you. Mr.
Brutman, you had to know banning Mr. Stein was only going to cause
this to flare up again. Neither of you are victims and neither of you
are blameless.
As I've previously mentioned to both of you, the two of you either
need to hash this out and squash it, or you need to ignore each other
completely...don't reply to, acknowledge, or even read each others'
posts, pretend the other party doesn't even exist.
While I think it would probably be better if you both could settle
your differences, if there is an inherent personality conflict, the
two of you may have to just settle for ignoring each other completely.
Stop squabbling like a couple of children. [Mooooommmmy, so-and-so put
bugs in my hair!] You are both grown ass men...settle this and act
like it.
On Sun, 3 May 2015, Michael Brutman wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.stein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As some of you know, Mike Brutman recently kicked me off Erik
>> Klein's excellent Vintage Computer Forum, for no reason other than
>> Mike's ego and the chip on his shoulder as far as I and the folks
>> who wrote me unsolicited notes of support can tell:
>>
>>
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?45454-5162-serial-po…
>>
>>
>> Apparently some folks also wrote to Erik on my behalf, but he's
>> chosen to not reply...
>>
>> Be that as it may and aside from the embarrassment and Mike's
>> insults, no problem; more time to spend elsewhere and an excuse to
>> finally get rid of the PC-related systems, motherboards, cards,
>> disks & drives, docs etc. that I've been hanging on to for close to
>> 40 years in case someone might need/want something some day.
>>
>> But being cut off arbitrarily and without warning or recourse from
>> my contacts and email archive at VCF might affect some other folks;
>> among other things, I have here, boxed and ready for shipping to
>> someone on VCF but no idea to whom, the following items:
>
>
> Not to add too much to the drama but I don't think this should go
> unsaid:
>
> 1. It saddens me that part of your hobby is being ruined for you.
> You know
> what? It saddens other people that you are ruining things for them too.
> So stop with the constant nitpicking and snark, especially when
> replying to
> people you already "have a history" with, and things like this won't
> happen. Nobody is winning here.
>
> 2. The history is much longer and much deeper than the referenced
> thread.
> Pointing out the tip of the iceberg and commenting on how that should
> not
> have sunk a ship is deceptive. This history goes back four years and it
> involves a few other members too. The cycle of flare-up, bans,
> discussions, and un-bans has gotten old. And none of it has been
> done in a
> vacuum - Erik is usually involved.
>
> 3. You consider my behavior insulting? I consider your behavior
> insulting
> too. There are people writing me notes of encouragement too. None of
> this
> means anything.
>
> 4. I've contacted Erik (again) to have him make a decision. He is not
> responding, so I assume he is attending to real life. Want back in?
> Fine,
> let's talk in private - mbbrutman at gmail.com. Or wait for Erik.
9:47 a.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
On Mon, 4 May 2015, Rod Smallwood wrote:
As you say both have much to ansvwer for.
That being so then remove both from whatever list(s) until such time as they
resolve a petty dispute that is without merit in both cases.
That way the rest of who get on just fine don't have to listen to any more of
this nonsense.
STAAAAAAAAAAHP!
(this thread and top posting)
HTH. HAND.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
1:34 p.m.
New subject: VCF Ban, Vector Graphic cards, Wright card punch, MDS Keyboard
I haven't heard from any of the folks on VCF
originally looking for these items; apologies for
the noise caused by my mentioning why I was
looking for them here on CCtalk instead.
But I did manage to find the person looking for
the keyboard, and the other items as well as those
in the follow-up post have all found good homes
with members of this list instead, so all's well.
It's an ill wind etc...
m
3281
days inactive
3307
days old
50 comments
25 participants
participants (25)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠fahimi.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
db＠db.net -
drlegendre＠gmail.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jason＠textfiles.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
mbbrutman＠brutman.com -
mhs.stein＠gmail.com -
mtapley＠swri.edu -
pontus＠Update.UU.SE -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com -
scaron＠umich.edu -
supervinx＠libero.it -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
tsg＠bonedaddy.net -
useddec＠gmail.com