28 May
2009
28 May
'09
1:21 a.m.
Tonight I had one of those I-gotta-tinker moments at midnight. I had the
Atari 2600 laid open, ready to accept the AV mod board I finished up a
couple days ago. I plugged in the soldering iron and poured a capful of
water from a bottle into the sponge. After about ten minutes, I picked up
the iron and poked it at the sponge. No sizzle. Dink around with the
cord and shank. No heat. Ah. This is the iron that I lent to someone
who put melty marks in the cord. I guess it's dead. There went another
disposable soldering iron.
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering stations is that I kept
wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys recommend?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
28 May
28 May
1:45 a.m.
I got three Wellers one WECP-20 a WTCP-20 and a VP 801 EC desoldering
station.
All three are more then 15 years old and the only problem I had was a bad
connection wire at the WECP.
And that was easy fixed bought a new cable and I was in business again.
And I solder a lot, so I think it's very economic to 'graduate' to a
station.
The other thing is soldering station are not direct connected to the mains
and the most use a discharge resistor between the housing and the mass
connector, and you can choose your own grounding point.
The change you kill something by ESD is a lot smaller then when you are
using a direct grounded iron.
-Rik
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens David Griffith
Verzonden: donderdag 28 mei 2009 10:21
Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Onderwerp: when soldering irons go bad
Tonight I had one of those I-gotta-tinker moments at
midnight. I had the Atari 2600 laid open, ready to accept
the AV mod board I finished up a couple days ago. I plugged
in the soldering iron and poured a capful of water from a
bottle into the sponge. After about ten minutes, I picked up
the iron and poked it at the sponge. No sizzle. Dink around
with the cord and shank. No heat. Ah. This is the iron
that I lent to someone who put melty marks in the cord. I
guess it's dead. There went another disposable soldering iron.
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering stations is
that I kept wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What
do you guys recommend?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
2:05 a.m.
David Griffith wrote:
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I kept
wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys recommend?
IME soldering stations are usually more reliable than the throwaway soldering
irons. I've got an Antex 660TC, and the only problem I've had with it is that
the transformer inside the base station has started buzzing. If memory serves,
it's about six or seven years old now.
I've been through two ST6 soldering iron stands (they usually break where the
top section attaches to the base), and four soldering bits, but the iron and
station are still working as well as they did when I got them. I don't think
I've managed to damage the silicone cable yet (though I'm not actively trying
to do so!). Even if the iron does fail, it's unlikely to take the base station
with it, and the irons aren't expensive (about ?30 -- or twice the price of a
25W Antex "XS" standard soldering iron).
Cost was about ?70 (down from ?120) in a Maplin clearance sale, but even at
full price they're worth having. The main advantage to being able to set the
temperature is that you won't end up damaging PCBs you're trying to repair.
Most 25W "pound-shop special" irons will get to ~450C after about an hour of
use, which is more than enough to ruin the glue that holds tracks down to PCB
substrates.
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
5:40 a.m.
On May 28, 2009, at 4:21 AM, David Griffith wrote:
Tonight I had one of those I-gotta-tinker moments at
midnight. I
had the Atari 2600 laid open, ready to accept the AV mod board I
finished up a couple days ago. I plugged in the soldering iron and
poured a capful of water from a bottle into the sponge. After
about ten minutes, I picked up the iron and poked it at the
sponge. No sizzle. Dink around with the cord and shank. No
heat. Ah. This is the iron that I lent to someone who put melty
marks in the cord. I guess it's dead. There went another
disposable soldering iron.
Ugh! Don't buy those crappy disposable irons. Quality tools are
important.
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I
kept wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys
recommend?
They generally don't go bad. I've had my Metcal for ten years...I
did low-volume commercial assembly with it for a while; I've probably
soldered a thousand PCBs with it, mostly surface mount. It was used
when I got it.
It replaced a Weller WTCPT (I second Tim's recommendation) that
was easily twenty years old when I got it, and I used it for another
fifteen.
Another thing about real soldering equipment. Once you use a
temperature-controlled iron, you'll never go back to one that isn't.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
7:25 a.m.
At 8:40 AM -0400 5/28/09, Dave McGuire wrote:
Ugh! Don't buy those crappy disposable irons.
Quality tools are important.
I couldn't agree more. I typically buy at least a bit more quality
than I need when I buy tools. I did it with my electronic's stuff (a
lot of what I bought was being sold for jewelry work), and now I'm
doing it as I buy stuff for the house.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
8:37 a.m.
On 28/05/2009 13:40, Dave McGuire wrote:
> One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I
> kept wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys
> recommend?
I kept my two Oryx temperature-controlled irons for that. One is in the
cupboard above the bench, the other is in a small toolkit in the car. I
used to carry that to all sorts of places, and once (many years ago) was
stopped by security at a UK airport. "What's this substance, sir?" He
was indicating the soggy sponge in the plastic bag beside the soldering
iron :-)
My current bench station is a Weller WD2 microprocessor-controlled unit
with a WSP80 iron that takes a wide range of LT tips and other
accessories. A birthday present a couple of years ago :-) I second Tim
(and others) in recommending Weller. I still have my big and ancient
Weller soldering gun for DEC power supplies, though.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
11:50 a.m.
Ugh! Don't buy those crappy disposable irons.
Quality tools are
important.
As I've said many times 'I am not rich enough to buy cheap tools' :-)
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I
kept wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys
recommend?
They generally don't go bad. I've had my Metcal for ten years...I
did low-volume commercial assembly with it for a while; I've probably
soldered a thousand PCBs with it, mostly surface mount. It was used
when I got it.
It replaced a Weller WTCPT (I second Tim's recommendation) that was easily twenty years old when I got it, and I used
it for another
fifteen.
Another thing about real soldering equipment. Once you use a
temperature-controlled iron, you'll never go back to one that isn't.
Agreed. I tememebr trying to use a friends cheapo iron to repair some bit
of hardware. After failing to desolder a connection from the ground plane
I went home and grabbed my Weller. After that, the repair went very easily.
-tony
1:51 p.m.
And I'm another one who uses them. Simple, easy to
repair (not that they
need it very often) and are great on juat about everything I work on (I
don't do mcuh high-density SMD stuff.
I do, and it is easy with a WTCPN and a suitable tip
> Another thing about real soldering equipment.
Once you use a
> temperature-controlled iron, you'll never go back to one that isn't.
Agreed!
12:04 p.m.
On Thu, 28 May 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
Ugh! Don't buy those crappy disposable irons.
Quality tools are
important.
Go to the flea market (boot sale) and buy a bunch of extremely cheap
Wellers with broken switches and broken connections where the wire to the
iron connects with the base. They'll cost you the same as the
disposables. You might need to borrow a real iron to repair one of them,
and then you can use that to repair the others. Then you will have a
supply of adequate quality irons.
Once I had iron(s), I felt a need to improve my soldering. I bought a few
BARE XT mother boards, BARE video boards, and BARE floppy controllers, and
a LOT of Augat turned pin sockets. They were readily available, and a LOT
cheaper in those days. The cheapest sockets were soldered to various
boards, so I also got a chance to learn UNsoldering. By the time I had
populated the boards, the quality of my soldering had improved to
"marginal". Most of the machines worked on the first try!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
5:58 a.m.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:21 AM, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
Tonight I had one of those I-gotta-tinker moments at midnight....
... No heat....?I guess it's dead. ?There went another disposable
soldering iron.
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering stations is that I kept
wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". ?What do you guys recommend?
Personally, I have several Weller soldering stations I've gotten for
free from former employers - some because of upgrades, some because
they didn't work and the company didn't want to "fuss" with fixing
them.
I fuss.
I have replaced heating elements and temp sensors, mostly, though one
or two could probably use a new cord because the strain relief isn't
as robust as when it was new (25 years ago).
Wellers are easy to get parts for. I tend to pick up what I need at
events like the Mansfield Hamfest, but they can be mail-ordered, too.
Diagnosis and repair is somewhat simple - put a known-working iron on
the base (helps if you have more than one ;-), and so far, it's always
been the iron that was faulty, then test the sensor then the heating
element. I did have one that had both defective, but usually it's one
or the other.
Mostly, though, they work for decades unless mishandled.
-ethan
6:11 a.m.
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I kept
wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys recommend?
I can't count all the defunct floppy-catenary-shaped rusted-tip ratshack
irons or the 30-40 watt basic Weller irons that went through my hands
before I finally got the hint.
Real soldering stations provide several advantages to me:
1. Temperature control -- quit charring your flux, the board, etc.
2. Power -- you can put a 90-100 watt heating element in the tip if you
have temperature control, because now you aren't just turning on the
element and hitting equilibrium at 950F. When you need to solder 8
gauge wire, you used to reach for the monster 100W stained-glass iron.
Now you may not have to.
3. FAST warmup. My Hakko goes from off to ready in 30 seconds or so.
(I hate waiting for the iron to warm up.) It also cools down faster.
4. Much better construction quality.
I got whacked with a clue stick by a friend who bought a refurbished
Hakko 939 from EAE Sales. He convinced me of the above advantages, and
I bought an identical one. It's completely changed the way I solder.
I'd suggest a station with lots of wattage and variable temperature
control, though the digital readout isn't strictly necessary.
Testimonial: Bruce at EAE is a great guy, and Knows His Stuff. He sells
refurbished (by himself, and by the factory) gear as well as new.
De
7:07 a.m.
On Thursday 28 May 2009, Dennis Boone wrote:
Though I've never actually had a Rat Shack cheapo iron go bad (probably
just luck, or the fact that I don't really use them that much), I'm
much happier with my temperature controlled one. I picked up an
Xytronic XY9-60, which I'm pretty happy with. It has an LED-display
temperature readout, and only set me back a little over $100 through
All Electronics, I think. They don't seem to have it anymore, but I'm
sure you could find another one..
One reason I
never graduated to /real/ soldering stations is that
I kept wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you
guys recommend?
I can't count all the defunct floppy-catenary-shaped rusted-tip
ratshack irons or the 30-40 watt basic Weller irons that went through
my hands before I finally got the hint. 2. Power -- you can put a 90-100 watt heating element
in the tip if
you have temperature control, because now you aren't just turning on
the element and hitting equilibrium at 950F. When you need to solder
8 gauge wire, you used to reach for the monster 100W stained-glass
iron. Now you may not have to.
FWIW, I have discovered that it's easier (given sufficient clearance) to
use a MAPP-gas torch to solder large wires. 6AWG is the biggest that
I've dealt with so far.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
6:54 p.m.
Rumor has it that Dennis Boone may have mentioned these words:
> One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I kept
> wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys recommend?
Only loaning out the RatShack crap to friends & keeping the nice soldering
station for yourself!
I do have a "loaner" soldering station - my company bought it from Dalbani
Electronics of Miami for about $70 shipped (to Northern Michigan - it
traversed both ends of I-75! ;-) It did OK for what we used it for (much
better than any RatShack crapola) but knew it was cheap and could afford it
breaking. I think it paid for itself by the 2nd job we used it on.
3. FAST warmup. My Hakko goes from off to ready in 30
seconds or so.
(I hate waiting for the iron to warm up.) It also cools down faster.
I timed my Hakko - it hits 700F in 20 seconds, but honestly, the tip
doesn't have enough spare thermal energy to solder well until about 60
seconds. Still easily the fastest & most accurate The Dalbani noname took
about 2 minutes to fully warm up, and I haven't soldered with a pencil in
so long I can't remember how badly it sucked - only that it sucked. ;-)
4. Much better construction quality.
I got whacked with a clue stick by a friend who bought a refurbished
Hakko 939 from EAE Sales. He convinced me of the above advantages, and
I bought an identical one. It's completely changed the way I solder.
I'd suggest a station with lots of wattage and variable temperature
control, though the digital readout isn't strictly necessary.
Testimonial: Bruce at EAE is a great guy, and Knows His Stuff. He sells
refurbished (by himself, and by the factory) gear as well as new.
If that wasn't me, it could have been! I've been a convert of Hakko
stations & Bruce at EAE sales for years. I purchased mine at the Daytona
Hamfest 5-6 years ago
I'm not saying Weller isn't good stuff (my portable butane fired iron is a
Weller, had it 10 years & still works quite well[1]) or that Metcal is
better (never used one but heard many drool over them) but at $100
refurbished from EAE at the Fest, my Hakko was an awesome deal that I've
_never_ regretted for a millisecond. With the fine electronics tip, I think
the largest wire I soldered was 10 or 12 gauge. Yes, it took a little
while, and that was the only time I ever saw the tip temperature drop 2
degrees F. before it recovered... I did it because someone told me it
couldn't. ;-))
[1] and that's what you use to fix the electric station - make sure you
have a can of Butane handy & you're golden! ;-)
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me
zmerch at 30below.com. |
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
3 Jun
3 Jun
9:20 p.m.
Dennis Boone wrote:
> One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I kept
> wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys recommend?
I've been pretty happy with my Xytronic 137ESD although I'm not a heavy
regular user.
http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/Images/137ESDLargeWeb.jpg
I know several other people who have also purchased one and been happy.
My first choice was Weller, but they were roughly 50-100% more
expensive, and I couldn't justify the cost difference.
HTH
Keith
28 May
28 May
7:08 a.m.
On May 28, 2009, at 1:21 AM, David Griffith wrote:
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I
kept wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys
recommend?
FWIW, I have a Weller soldering station, and it has performed
flawlessly for 15 years. I had to replace the tip once, I think.
I also have one of the Radio Shack "stations", and it similarly has
had no issues over the years.
Cheap pencils are just that: cheap pencils. Like the wooden ones you
write with, they have a limited service life, and once they get used
down to the nub, you throw them away.
9:59 a.m.
On 28 May 2009 at 7:08, C. Sullivan wrote:
FWIW, I have a Weller soldering station, and it has
performed
flawlessly for 15 years. I had to replace the tip once, I think.
My Weller WTCP has done well for more than 30 years. I've had to
replace the cord once (I slammed a desk drawer on it); otherwise, no
problems other than the sponge tray corroding (wire brush prime and
paint). Parts are easy to find--and I've got a grocery bag full of
various tips that I bought for something like $0.15 each when
Sunnyvale Electronics went out of business (that'll date me).
--Chuck
12:19 p.m.
Why is it, that people with broken Wellers throw them out, instead of
soldering the repairs needed?
2:34 p.m.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On May 28, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
I've run across 2-3 over the past 25 years. They all had hard lives
but were still trivial to fix (cable/sensor/heater problems). I
didn't have to spend more than $20 in new parts to get any one of them
working. I haven't yet run across one with a problem in the base.
-ethan
Why is it, that people with broken Wellers throw them out, instead of
soldering the repairs needed?
?I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a broken one.
3:38 p.m.
On Thu, 28 May 2009, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I've run across 2-3 over the past 25 years. They
all had hard lives
but were still trivial to fix (cable/sensor/heater problems). I
didn't have to spend more than $20 in new parts to get any one of them
working. I haven't yet run across one with a problem in the base.
The connector for the cord from the base to the iron
occasionally the power switch
4:50 p.m.
At 04:55 PM 5/28/2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
On May 28, 2009, at 3:19 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
I have a W-TCP that I obtained probably 30 years ago; the insulation on
the cable between the base and the iron deteriorated over time to the
point where I replaced it with a chunk of CAT 5 cable. And yes, I used
a cheapo iron to solder those connections. Hopefully it'll last me
another 30 years now.
Someone mentioned that parts are easily available for these. Any pointers?
I also have a Weller soldering gun for those big jobs. :-)
-Rick
Why is it, that people with broken Wellers throw
them out, instead of
soldering the repairs needed?
I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a broken one. 
29 May
29 May
7:35 a.m.
----------------------------------------
From: lists at databasics.us
Fred Cisin wrote:
Hi
I recall my first weller. It seems that the base was
the most expensive part. The tips and handles could
be had for less than $20 or so. I bought a 24V transformer
at radio shack, connected a line cord and was in business.
I recall the cheap RS transformer ran cooler than later
real bases I got. Go figure.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutori…
Why is it, that people with broken Wellers throw
them out, instead of
soldering the repairs needed?
To provide cheap people like me with quality equipment.... and thank
God for that!
Warren
10:28 a.m.
Why is it, that people with broken Wellers throw them out, instead of
soldering the repairs needed?
I guess for the same reason they throw out other things with totally
trivial faults. THey don't think it's worth their time to find said fault
(for all it would take 10 minutes maximum). Still, their loss is our gain...
-tony
4:44 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I guess for the same reason they throw out other
things with totally
trivial faults. THey don't think it's worth their time to find said fault
(for all it would take 10 minutes maximum). Still, their loss is our gain...
A friend recently told me about one of his friends buying a high-end
Japanese-made electron microscope from Signetics as surplus many years
ago. It didn't work, so he helped his friend fix it. There was a
potted high-voltage power supply that wasn't working, and based on the
symptoms he came up with a hypothesis that the module was internally
miswired. They spent a lot of time depotting the module, and sure
enough, it was miswired exactly as he predicted. They fixed that, and
it worked perfectly.
Apparently at some later date they went back to Signetics surplus, and
the people there were very surprised, and perhaps somewhat upset, to
hear that it had been repaired, and how trivial the fault was. They
scrapped it because they'd never been able to get it to work!
28 May
28 May
11:39 a.m.
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering stations is that I kept
wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". What do you guys recommend?
I am not sure what you're asking....
The Soldering station I have uses a Weller TCP iron (it's not one of the
modern electornically-controlled ones). It consists of a power switch and
fuse, a 24V 50VA transformer, and the output connector. THe iron consists
of the cable, element and magnetic switch.
If/when it fails, I can trivially use a multimeter to find the bad part
:-). As regards replacing it, I still have a 'spare' TCP iron that I
could run off my bebch supply (if the base part of the station had
failed, if that's OK, I'd just plug it in to the station) to use for
repairing the one I normally use.
-tony
12:32 p.m.
On Thu, 28 May 2009 01:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering
stations is that I
kept wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?".
Repair it, if it goes
bad at all. You can get replacement parts for
branded products like Weller or Metcal.
What do you guys recommend?
Good tools cost
money but are invaluable.
Don't waste your time with cheap tools. Spend your money for good,
proper tools and they will last.
My experience with Weller isn't that good. We have several Wellers at
work. If you solder somthing biger they have a problem transporting the
heat from the heating element to the tip. At least to my experience, at
least with the Wellers at work.
When I was 16 I bought a simple ERSA soldering station. At that time it
was expensive for a teenager. But I still use it today, 20 years later.
The pinnacle of soldering technic seems to be Metcal. Unfortunately
they are rare on this side of The Pond.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
2:39 p.m.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
David Griffith wrote:
Agreed. I'm sorry I was out of the country for the
shutting-down-the-factory clearance at the Lucent Columbus Works
(formerly the Western Electric Columbus Works) where I worked for a
couple of years a while back. I was told by a friend who used to work
the factory that tools like the Metcal irons were free for the taking.
Unfortunately, I hadn't met him yet when that happened, or I would've
had him grab me one.
I used those same Metcals a few times... very nice. Plenty of odd SMT
rework tips. It was difficult to go home to my Weller.
-ethan
One reason I never graduated to /real/ soldering stations is that I kept
wondering "what do I do when it goes bad?". ?What do you guys recommend?
Weller good. ?Metcal better.
2:43 p.m.
Weller good. Metcal better.
I **never** seen a metcal in person. This is something I dream to have.
It is heated by RF, eh? :oO
the factory that tools like the Metcal irons were free
for the taking.
:oO
I used those same Metcals a few times... very nice.
Plenty of odd SMT
rework tips. It was difficult to go home to my Weller.
Drooling :oD
2:55 p.m.
On May 28, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Alexandre Souza wrote:
I didn't think anything could be better than my trusty Weller,
until I tried the Metcal.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Weller good.
Metcal better.
I **never** seen a metcal in person. This is something I dream
to have.
It is heated by RF, eh? :oO 
6:01 p.m.
At 04:55 PM 5/28/2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
I didn't think anything could be better than my
trusty Weller,
until I tried the Metcal.
Looks Metcals go for $100-200 on eBay. Is that expensive?
As a teen in the late 70s, I once tried to assemble a mail-order
electronics kit but it wouldn't work... I sent it back to the
company for diagnosis and was stung by the hand-written criticism
that "it looks like it was soldered with a hot brick."
- John
6:13 p.m.
On May 28, 2009, at 9:01 PM, John Foust wrote:
Depends on the model. For just a soldering station, that's on the
high side of reasonable. For an SMT rework station, it's average to
low.
I didn't
think anything could be better than my trusty Weller,
until I tried the Metcal.
Looks Metcals go for $100-200 on eBay. Is that expensive? As a teen in the late 70s, I once tried to assemble a
mail-order
electronics kit but it wouldn't work... I sent it back to the
company for diagnosis and was stung by the hand-written criticism
that "it looks like it was soldered with a hot brick."
Were you using one of those evil Radio Shack $7.00 specials? ;)
I once knew a guy who soldered kits together by running back and
forth between his kitchen stove and the table with a flat-blade
screwdriver. I don't know if he ever actually completed anything.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
6:33 p.m.
On May 28, 2009, at 9:25 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
This would've been in the early 1980s. I'd use a different term. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I once knew a
guy who soldered kits together by running back and
forth
between his kitchen stove and the table with a flat-blade
screwdriver. I
don't know if he ever actually completed anything.
Old school.
7:36 p.m.
On Thu, 28 May 2009, William Donzelli wrote:
I have an old Popular Mechanics or somesuch book from the 1940s that
described "normal" soldering irons as things that you heat up in a
benchtop furnace.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
?I once knew a
guy who soldered kits together by running back and forth
between his kitchen stove and the table with a flat-blade screwdriver. ?I
don't know if he ever actually completed anything.
Old school.
8:04 p.m.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:01 PM, John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
At 04:55 PM 5/28/2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
That's not _too_ bad, but how many and what kind of tips do you get at
that price.
$100 and one tip would be OK, but I remember prices with an assortment
of tips being closer to $300. Perhaps one side of the supply/demand
equation is more favorable to the buyer now.
?I didn't think anything could be better than
my trusty Weller,
until I tried the Metcal.
Looks Metcals go for $100-200 on eBay. ?Is that expensive? As a teen in the late 70s, I once tried to assemble a
mail-order
electronics kit but it wouldn't work... ?I sent it back to the
company for diagnosis and was stung by the hand-written criticism
that "it looks like it was soldered with a hot brick."
I still have a couple of projects I assembled in the late 1970s as a
teen... I used a cheap RatShack pencil iron - they _do_ look like they
were assembled with a hot brick. One is a TVT 6-5/8. I keep meaning
to clean that one up but haven't found the time to do it.
-ethan
8:46 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Guilty as charged. I am trying to throw the disposable ones away.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:01 PM, John Foust <jfoust
at threedee.com> wrote:
Argh, here I thought I was in heaven with the recent WESD51 Weller
purchase I made (yes, I used a a RatShack special for 20 years (1977 -
1997) and a $11.00 RatShack "More Special" for 10 more (97-07), and now
I need to check out Hakko and Metcal.
However, I will defend the lowly RatShack soldering iron:
1) $7-$9.00. Say what you will, but you'll never buy a Metcal if you're
not even sure if you can solder.
2) They are cheap and they often break. It's easier to appreciate the
value of a Weller or Metcal if you've used a RatShack iron.
At 04:55 PM 5/28/2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
That's not _too_ bad, but how many and what kind of tips do you get at
that price.
$100 and one tip would be OK, but I remember prices with an assortment
of tips being closer to $300. Perhaps one side of the supply/demand
equation is more favorable to the buyer now.
I didn't think anything could be better than
my trusty Weller,
until I tried the Metcal.
Looks Metcals go for $100-200 on eBay. Is that expensive?
As a teen in the late 70s, I once tried to
assemble a mail-order
electronics kit but it wouldn't work... I sent it back to the
company for diagnosis and was stung by the hand-written criticism
that "it looks like it was soldered with a hot brick."
I still have a couple of projects I assembled in the late 1970s as a
teen... I used a cheap RatShack pencil iron - they _do_ look like they
were assembled with a hot brick. One is a TVT 6-5/8. I keep meaning
to clean that one up but haven't found the time to do it.
8:56 p.m.
On 28 May 2009 at 22:46, Jim Brain wrote:
Guilty as charged. I am trying to throw the
disposable ones away.
I've got an old 40W Ungar pencil (with the ceramic screw-in elements)
tucked away just in case. That was over 30 years ago; I've never had
to bring it out.
I also have an acetylene torch in case the Ungar fails.
--Chuck
8:54 p.m.
On Thu, 28 May 2009, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I still have a couple of projects I assembled in the
late 1970s as a
teen... I used a cheap RatShack pencil iron - they _do_ look like they
were assembled with a hot brick. One is a TVT 6-5/8. I keep meaning
to clean that one up but haven't found the time to do it.
Weird. I've always been complimented on my soldering, even though I've
always used a Ratshack Special.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
9:17 p.m.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:54 PM, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2009, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I was a kid and nobody really showed me how to solder, so I had to
learn the hard way. Fortunately, the job I got at 18 involved
soldering 6-layer boards (adding ECO components and wires), and I got
really good, really fast. Graduating from a cheap iron to a Weller
EC-2000 was no small part of it. Having someone take the time to show
me a few tips was another.
Now, I know I could do a half-way decent job with a crappy iron, but
cheap tools can only do so much.
-ethan
I still have a couple of projects I assembled in
the late 1970s as a
teen... I used a cheap RatShack pencil iron - they _do_ look like they
were assembled with a hot brick. ?One is a TVT 6-5/8. ?I keep meaning
to clean that one up but haven't found the time to do it.
Weird. ?I've always been complimented on my soldering, even though I've
always used a Ratshack Special. 
29 May
29 May
2:29 a.m.
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 20:54 -0700, David Griffith wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2009, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Maplin here, but same idea - el-cheapo iron and a steady point. I've
never had any problems, even when doing quite fine SMD work.
Gordon
I still have a couple of projects I assembled in
the late 1970s as a
teen... I used a cheap RatShack pencil iron - they _do_ look like they
were assembled with a hot brick. One is a TVT 6-5/8. I keep meaning
to clean that one up but haven't found the time to do it.
Weird. I've always been complimented on my soldering, even though I've
always used a Ratshack Special.
5461
days inactive
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43 comments
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