11 Nov
2008
11 Nov
'08
10:15 a.m.
I *may* soon be acquiring a NeXT slab. Snag is, while it has mouse,
keyboard etc., it has no monitor.
Does anyone know about what kind of connector I'd need to connect a
plain ol' VGA type monitor to it?
I don't yet know if it's a colour or a mono slab. If it's a mono one,
I have an old Sun 19" mono monitor I could use (13W3, I think?), and
indeed an old Viking II Mac 19" mono (DB9, IIRC) and a colour 21" that
always swaps green and red over, on both Macs and PCs, for no reason I
can determine (It has a Mac lead, and I've tried on both Macs and PCs
thru' a Mac-PC convertor). Any chance of connecting any of them to it?
I've only been in this hobby for a quarter of a century or so and the
first 5-10y it was either a TV set or CGA. I know nothing about all
these older monitor connections... :?(
--
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11 Nov
11 Nov
10:37 a.m.
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
I *may* soon be acquiring a NeXT slab. Snag is, while
it has
mouse,
keyboard etc., it has no monitor.
Does anyone know about what kind of connector I'd need
to connect a
plain ol' VGA type monitor to it?
I don't yet know if it's a colour or a mono
slab.
The color NeXT monitors connect with a 13w3 connector. I believe that they are fixed
frequency, sync on green. A newer VGA monitor that supports sync-on-green should work with
some connector adapting. But, the monitor is the LEAST of your worries. You see, I have a
color slab too. And a color cube. I also have the keyboard, mouse, color monitor and sound
box. And I've never been able to hook any of it up. I'm missing "the
cable".
NeXT couldn't just put connectors for everything on the back of the computer. No, that
would have been too easy, to useful. For example, there is no keyboard port on the
computer. No power switch either - that's on the keyboard. To connect ANYTHING to the
computer, you need the sound box. This is a wedge shaped black box with a speaker in it -
and the keyboard port. This connects to the computer through "the cable" - a
special, three headed cable that connects to the computer, sound box and monitor.
You need the sound box and this wacky cable. I have been unable to track one down,
I've been looking on and off for a couple years. Never could find one at a sane price.
I once even sat down with the schematics and drew up a diagram of what I thought the cable
should be, so I could build one. But, since there is power in the cable, and I wasn't
100% sure I was right, I never built it. I'd love to find a real cable so I can ohm it
out and determine the connections.
Good luck...
-Ian
11:02 a.m.
Mr Ian Primus wrote:
NeXT couldn't just put connectors for everything
on the back of the
computer. No, that would have been too easy, to useful. For example, there
is no keyboard port on the computer. No power switch either - that's on the
keyboard. To connect ANYTHING to the computer, you need the sound box. This
is a wedge shaped black box with a speaker in it - and the keyboard port.
This connects to the computer through "the cable" - a special, three headed
cable that connects to the computer, sound box and monitor.
I think that's highly dependent on the display - the color displays were
rebadged something-elses (Hitachi?) so needed the sound box, but that
functionality was built into the mono displays.
(having said that I'm a little confused though, as I'm sure I used a sound box
with the mono Cube - perhaps there's a difference between the 17" and 21"
mono
displays, too?)
cheers
Jules
12:13 p.m.
On 11/11/2008 16:02, Jules Richardson wrote:
Mr Ian Primus wrote:
> NeXT couldn't just put connectors for everything on the back of the
> computer. No, that would have been too easy, to useful. For example,
> there
> is no keyboard port on the computer. No power switch either - that's
> on the
> keyboard. To connect ANYTHING to the computer, you need the sound box.
I think that's highly dependent on the display -
the color displays were
rebadged something-elses (Hitachi?) so needed the sound box, but that
functionality was built into the mono displays.
(having said that I'm a little confused though, as I'm sure I used a
sound box with the mono Cube - perhaps there's a difference between the
17" and 21" mono displays, too?)
I'm not sure about that -- I thought all NeXT mono monitors included the
keyboard circuitry. My 17" one certainly does; the 19-pin D-connector
carries power and keyboard connections to the monitor, which provides
the socket for the keyboard (which in turn has the power control as Ian
says). Jules may be correct about the 21" monitor, though; I've not
seen one in the flesh.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
12:15 p.m.
On 11/11/2008 17:13, Pete Turnbull wrote:
I thought all NeXT mono monitors included the
keyboard circuitry. My 17" one certainly does; the 19-pin D-connector
carries power and keyboard connections to the monitor, which provides
the socket for the keyboard (which in turn has the power control as Ian
says).
I meant to add that answer L11 in the FAQ may be helpful if you don't
have a NeXT monitor:
http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~heller/NeXT/HW_internal_FAQ.txt
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
12 Nov
12 Nov
6:55 a.m.
New subject: NeXT station cables - was RE: NeXTstation advice sought
>>>
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Mr Ian Primus
Sent: 11 November 2008 15:38
You need the sound box and this wacky cable. I have been unable to track one
down, I've been looking on and off for a couple years. Never could find one
at a sane price. I once even sat down with the schematics and drew up a
diagram of what I thought the cable should be, so I could build one. But,
since there is power in the cable, and I wasn't 100% sure I was right, I
never built it. I'd love to find a real cable so I can ohm it out and
determine the connections.
<<<<
I may be able to help.
Some time ago at a boot sale I picked-up some NeXT items: 3 sound boxes, 3
cables, and a mouse.
They were about to go into a skip in my next clearout, but it seems like
they would be more useful than I thought.
I have no idea whether these are in working order.
I am in the UK about 30 miles from London (use of terms like "skip" and
"boot sale" are a good clue as to which side of the Atlantic I am!)
if you email me (address below) please use plain text with no attachments
and retain the subject otherwise you may get lost in the SPAM
Andy
andy holt tesco net
with at in the middle and dots as appropriate.
11:56 a.m.
2008/11/11 Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com>:
--- On Tue, 11/11/08, Liam Proven <lproven at
gmail.com> wrote:
Not good.
So if it has no monitor & no Sound Box, I'm likely to be stuffed? It
does have a monitor cable, but that's just a standard-ish /style/ D25
or so to similar cable.
Define a "sane price", by the way. That's so insanely variable as to
be meaningless. For some people, no more than ?5 would be reasonable;
for some, no more than ?50, and for some, ?500 might be justifiable.
Assuming that one has a machine - say a mono mk1 25MHz slab - plus
keyboard and mouse, and does not have and can not get a NeXT display,
what do you need to connect a generic monitor and the NeXT keyboard
and mouse to it? Or, for that matter, a Mac keyboard and mouse, 'cos
as I understand it, it's all ADB?
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com ? MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com
Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508
I *may* soon be acquiring a NeXT slab. Snag is,
while it has
mouse,
keyboard etc., it has no monitor.
Does anyone know about what kind of connector I'd need
to connect a
plain ol' VGA type monitor to it?
I don't yet know if it's a colour or a
mono slab.
The color NeXT monitors connect with a 13w3 connector. I believe that they are fixed
frequency, sync on green. A newer VGA monitor that supports sync-on-green should work with
some connector adapting. But, the monitor is the LEAST of your worries. You see, I have a
color slab too. And a color cube. I also have the keyboard, mouse, color monitor and sound
box. And I've never been able to hook any of it up. I'm missing "the
cable".
NeXT couldn't just put connectors for everything on the back of the computer. No,
that would have been too easy, to useful. For example, there is no keyboard port on the
computer. No power switch either - that's on the keyboard. To connect ANYTHING to the
computer, you need the sound box. This is a wedge shaped black box with a speaker in it -
and the keyboard port. This connects to the computer through "the cable" - a
special, three headed cable that connects to the computer, sound box and monitor.
You need the sound box and this wacky cable. I have been unable to track one down,
I've been looking on and off for a couple years. Never could find one at a sane price.
I once even sat down with the schematics and drew up a diagram of what I thought the cable
should be, so I could build one. But, since there is power in the cable, and I wasn't
100% sure I was right, I never built it. I'd love to find a real cable so I can ohm it
out and determine the connections.
Good luck...
12:33 p.m.
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
So if it has no monitor & no Sound Box, I'm
likely
to be stuffed? It
does have a monitor cable, but that's just a
standard-ish /style/ D25
or so to similar cable.
I believe the mono machines don't use the odd three headed cable, since they don't
use the seperate sound box.
Define a "sane price", by the way.
That's so
insanely variable as to
be meaningless. For some people, no more than ?5 would be
reasonable;
for some, no more than ?50, and for some, ?500 might be
justifiable.
I remember seeing someone trying to sell one on eBay for somewhere around $75. I really
couldn't justify the cost. I haven't looked lately though.
Assuming that one has a machine - say a mono mk1 25MHz
slab
- plus
keyboard and mouse, and does not have and can not get a
NeXT display,
what do you need to connect a generic monitor and the NeXT
keyboard
and mouse to it? Or, for that matter, a Mac keyboard and
mouse, 'cos
as I understand it, it's all ADB?
It's not all ADB. There were two different types of keyboards/mice used on NeXT boxen.
The early ones were NeXT specific, later ones were ADB. The type of keyboard used depends
on the computer and the sound box. I believe you can use the ADB keyboards on some earlier
computers if you use the ADB sound box - but I think you might also have to upgrade the
ROM in the computer to work with the newer sound box - but don't quote me on that.
I am not familiar with the mono NeXT gear, having never seen any "in the flesh",
but it was my understanding that the "sound box" circuitry is in the monitor on
these machines. So, you wouldn't need the sound box, only the monitor. Of course,
you're still equally stuck, because the computer still doesn't have a keyboard
port.
But, you could still trick the computer into turning on (the NeXT FAQ has instructions),
and then use the RS-232 port with a terminal.
There may be a way to hack something to work - I have never done it, however. Anyone have
schematics or pinouts of the mono machines?
-Ian
12:38 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-11-12 at 09:33 -0800, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Liam Proven <lproven at
gmail.com> wrote:
That's correct. The keyboard and mouse come out of the monitor.
I'm getting ready to sell some NeXT stuff in the near future. I'll post
the list here when I'm ready.
Brian
So if it has no monitor & no Sound Box,
I'm likely
to be stuffed? It
does have a monitor cable, but that's just a
standard-ish /style/ D25
or so to similar cable.
I believe the mono machines don't use the odd three headed cable, since they
don't use the seperate sound box.
12:55 p.m.
On 12/11/2008 17:33, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Liam Proven <lproven at
gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the mono machines don't use the odd
three headed cable,
since they don't use the seperate sound box.
That's right, they use a single cable from the monitor to the 19-pin
D-connector on the machine itself. That single cable on the monitor
carries power for the monitor, keyboard, etc.
It's not all ADB. There were two different types
of keyboards/mice
used on NeXT boxen. The early ones were NeXT specific, later ones
were ADB. The type of keyboard used depends on the computer and the
sound box. I believe you can use the ADB keyboards on some earlier
computers if you use the ADB sound box - but I think you might also
have to upgrade the ROM in the computer to work with the newer sound
box - but don't quote me on that.
I believe that's correct, but mine has a NeXT mono monitor so I've never
needed to test the theory. If it works, you may actually be better off
with the soundbox plus non-NeXT monitor solution, because most of the
the tubes in the mono monitors are now suffering from low emission and
are rather dim.
I am not familiar with the mono NeXT gear, having
never seen any "in
the flesh", but it was my understanding that the "sound box"
circuitry is in the monitor on these machines. So, you wouldn't need
the sound box, only the monitor. Of course, you're still equally
stuck, because the computer still doesn't have a keyboard port.
That's correct too, although I believe (subject to the caveats a
paragraph back) that you can use a sound box instead.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
2:54 p.m.
I am not familiar with the mono NeXT gear, having
never seen any "in
the flesh", but it was my understanding that the "sound box"
circuitry is in the monitor on these machines.
Or the CPU box, yes. For a mono NeXT, all you need is CPU box (cube or
slab), monitor, keyboard, mouse, and the 19-pin D-sub cable between the
CPU box and the monitor.
Oh, and power and Ethernet, but those are bog-standard. :-)
I do have a slightly different NeXT cable which I could buzz out if it
would help anything. It's got three ends: two male 13W3 and one male
19-pin D-sub. (I might have one of the three-head octopus cables - hm,
would that make it a tripus cable? :-) - mentioned upthread, but if so
I have no idea where it is.)
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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13 Nov
13 Nov
9:09 a.m.
2008/11/12 Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com>:
Now, I would call that quite cheap to get a classic NeXT working. And
I am **NOT** a rich man, but this was a $5000 computer.
OMG. That sounds horrible... :?(
--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Liam Proven <lproven at
gmail.com> wrote:
Aha! Worth knowing. Thanks.
So if it has no monitor & no Sound Box,
I'm likely
to be stuffed? It
does have a monitor cable, but that's just a
standard-ish /style/ D25
or so to similar cable.
I believe the mono machines don't use the odd three headed cable, since they
don't use the seperate sound box. Define a
"sane price", by the way. That's so
insanely variable as to
be meaningless. For some people, no more than ?5 would be
reasonable;
for some, no more than ?50, and for some, ?500 might be
justifiable.
I remember seeing someone trying to sell one on eBay for somewhere around $75. I really
couldn't justify the cost. I haven't looked lately though. Assuming that
one has a machine - say a mono mk1 25MHz slab
- plus
keyboard and mouse, and does not have and can not get a
NeXT display,
what do you need to connect a generic monitor and the NeXT
keyboard
and mouse to it? Or, for that matter, a Mac keyboard and
mouse, 'cos
as I understand it, it's all ADB?
It's not all ADB. There were two different types of keyboards/mice used on NeXT
boxen. The early ones were NeXT specific, later ones were ADB. The type of keyboard used
depends on the computer and the sound box. I believe you can use the ADB keyboards on some
earlier computers if you use the ADB sound box - but I think you might also have to
upgrade the ROM in the computer to work with the newer sound box - but don't quote me
on that. I am not familiar with the mono NeXT gear, having
never seen any "in the flesh", but it was my understanding that the "sound
box" circuitry is in the monitor on these machines. So, you wouldn't need the
sound box, only the monitor. Of course, you're still equally stuck, because the
computer still doesn't have a keyboard port.
But, you could still trick the computer into turning on (the NeXT FAQ has instructions),
and then use the RS-232 port with a terminal.
A text-only NeXT sounds about as much use as an immaculately-restored
vintage car with no wheels on. I can't see any point whatsoever!
There may be a way to hack something to work - I have
never done it, however. Anyone have schematics or pinouts of the mono machines?
I can see myself commissioning a breakout cable for this soon... 8?(
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com ? MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com
Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508
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11 comments
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participants (7)
-
andyh＠andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk -
bdwheele＠indiana.edu -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com