16 May
2016
16 May
'16
3:13 p.m.
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar scalers.
They sync to SoG, and have no trouble with oddball resolutions like
1152x8-whatever.
My SGI stuff can drive it at native resolution. As an added bonus, you can
disable scaling if you want black bars and native resolution.
These are readily available for ~$35, and I have at least 6.
- Ian
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 05/16/2016 11:49 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
I have been keeping my eye out for older panels.
I have some 12"
4:3 and a few 17" 4:3 and I think one 19" 4:3. Never run across
anything larger. I don't think there were too many 4:3 LCD
televisions sold larger than 19"... some, perhaps, but not many. The
world switched to 16:9 about the time prices started falling on > 19"
panels.
I have a couple of arcade cabinets I'd love to switch to LCD. No
luck yet except with a 16:9 that would fill the cabinet space but
give me a black bars and a smaller playfield size than the CRT.
I use a NEC 21.3" 4:3 monitor--they can be had for cheap.
NEC sells a few refurb very inexpensive 4:3 19" monitors that accept SOG:
http://www.necdisplay.com/category/desktop-monitors?Refurbished=1
--Chuck
16 May
16 May
3:28 p.m.
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD
for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
Excellent recommendation. I'll be keeping a lookout for them.
Thanks!
-ethan
4:20 p.m.
On May 16, 2016 12:13 PM, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
Will those sync with an Agilent 16700 at 1600x1200 at 75Hz? I've only found
one LCD display so far that will.
5:10 p.m.
Glen asks:
> Will those sync with an Agilent 16700 at 1600x1200
at 75Hz?
> I've only found one LCD display so far that will.
I don't think I have the extended VRAM option in my Agilent to verify this,
but I'll double check.
I would assume they will take it, they're extremely well behaved and I
think I have gotten it to do 1600x1200x75 via an Indigo2(?). Great quality
analog handling on the VGA input.
The only thing I suspect that they don't like (but have not tried) is 15khz
via the VGA input- easily fixed by using a scandoubler (or composite /
S-video).
I've encountered nothing that hasn't worked on the 2007FP, but *has* worked
on another model LCD.
Glen: You are welcome to borrow one and give it a go whenever we hack on
the CDU PALs.
....
I'll also note another much sillier reason I like the 2007FP beyond
superb scaling quality, sync flexibility and overall image / panel quality:
The industrial design is minimal, angular, VESA-mountable, and inoffensive.
It fits well with decidedly retro surroundings- no giant bezel,
loud curves, or weird chassis colors to distract the eye; it fades into the
background nicely, which helps the experience and suspension of reality, if
that's something you're into. (Late night retro-sessions FTW)
They seem to be quite common right now as they're of the magic age
where offices have started to upgrade them to bigger, wider LCDs. I'm sure
that won't last so I'm hoarding them when they pop up at the ecycle, etc.
- Ian
Appendix: a non-inclusive list of shit I've tested-
RGB / VGA in:
Amiga 3000 w/internal scandoubler
Apple Quadra 700-950, IIci, IIsi internal video
Indigo2 at 1600x1200 native (gorgeous)
Radius ThunderGX 1600 NuBus graphics at native (also awesome)
Amiga PicassoII, GVP Spectrum, and Macro Retina Z3 24bit RTGs - 800x600
looks
superb
Radius 24XK NuBus graphics
SGI Onyx @ native (should be disqualified because it'll sync to a piece
of
toast with the right format)
Indigo ELAN
Misc. color sun stuff (3/80, sparc)
Apollo DN3000 color
HP / Apollo 425 color
SGI O2
SGI Octane V6 with custom VFO @ native
SGI Personal IRIS
etc...
Have also used the composite input with:
Sperctrum QL
C64
Video toaster
Nintendo 64
On Monday, May 16, 2016, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
On May 16, 2016 12:13 PM, "Ian Finder"
<ian.finder at gmail.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
Will those sync with an Agilent 16700 at 1600x1200 at 75Hz? I've only found
one LCD display so far that will.
5:37 p.m.
Glen .. good question, I'd like a larger display for my 16700 !
-pete
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
On May 16, 2016 12:13 PM, "Ian Finder"
<ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
Will those sync with an Agilent 16700 at 1600x1200 at 75Hz? I've only found
one LCD display so far that will.
17 May
17 May
1:43 a.m.
This is a very simple (and portable) monitor tester with 31 and 15 KHz
frequencies
http://www.victortrucco.com/Diversos/TicTacBlue/TicTacBlue
We use it here in Brazil to look for LCD monitors who sync to 15KHz.
2016-05-16 18:37 GMT-03:00 Pete Lancashire <pete at petelancashire.com>:
Glen .. good question, I'd like a larger display
for my 16700 !
-pete
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
On May 16, 2016 12:13 PM, "Ian Finder"
<ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
found
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
Will those sync with an Agilent 16700 at 1600x1200 at 75Hz? I've only one LCD display so far that will.
16 May
16 May
5:34 p.m.
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD
for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar scalers.
They sync to SoG, and have no trouble with oddball resolutions like
1152x8-whatever.
*makes notes*
Thanks for that, I'll keep an eye out for one!
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
5:52 p.m.
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD
for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar scalers.
In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I remember these
monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in video for
aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but remember being irked at the time
that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI input,
hahaha.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
6:25 p.m.
On 16 May 2016 at 22:52 Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
wrote:
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
He had another one at that price (the last one apparently), so I have bagged
that one. I tried my Viewsonic, which does SoG, on my Rainbow at the weekend,
but that didn't work, perhaps this will. Even if it doesn't it will still be a
good second monitor for my everyday PC.
Regards
Rob
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to
LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
scalers.
In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I remember
these
monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in video for
aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but remember being irked at the
time
that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI input,
hahaha.
6:46 p.m.
This post: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-16744.html
Seems to indicate that the Rainbow is a 15khz sync signal, more akin to
normal interlaced video- which I called out in my other post as being the
one type of signal that doesn't always work for these displays.
You may find success using a GBS-8220 scan-doubler, (ebay, c. $28
USD), perhaps with a sync-strainer circuit to feed the SoG signal to the
Scan Doubler as composite sync, if it doesn't work directly with the 2007FP.
Curious to hear what you figure out.
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Jarratt RMA <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
remember
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
On 16 May 2016 at 22:52 Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
wrote:
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
> I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff
is
the
Dell
2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
scalers.
In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I these
monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in
video for
aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but
remember being irked at
the
time
that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI
input,
hahaha.
He had another one at that price (the last one apparently), so I have
bagged
that one. I tried my Viewsonic, which does SoG, on my Rainbow at the
weekend,
but that didn't work, perhaps this will. Even if it doesn't it will still
be a
good second monitor for my everyday PC.
Regards
Rob
6:48 p.m.
Addendum-
This thread (http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=44692) seems to
indicate the 2007FP CAN do 15hkz on the VGA / RGB input... so maybe you're
all good. Anyone here want to test?
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
This post:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-16744.html
Seems to indicate that the Rainbow is a 15khz sync signal, more akin to
normal interlaced video- which I called out in my other post as being the
one type of signal that doesn't always work for these displays.
You may find success using a GBS-8220 scan-doubler, (ebay, c. $28
USD), perhaps with a sync-strainer circuit to feed the SoG signal to the
Scan Doubler as composite sync, if it doesn't work directly with the 2007FP.
Curious to hear what you figure out.
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Jarratt RMA <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
remember
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
On 16 May 2016 at 22:52 Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk
wrote:
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
> I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff
is
the
Dell
2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
scalers.
In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I these
monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in
video for
aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but
remember being irked at
the
time
that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI
input,
hahaha.
He had another one at that price (the last one apparently), so I have
bagged
that one. I tried my Viewsonic, which does SoG, on my Rainbow at the
weekend,
but that didn't work, perhaps this will. Even if it doesn't it will still
be a
good second monitor for my everyday PC.
Regards
Rob
17 May
17 May
2:31 a.m.
New subject: Best LCDs for retrocomputing - Was: Re: New *square* 1:1 26.5"LCD monitor 1920x1920
I?ll let you know in a few days when I get back home.
Regards
Rob
Sent from my Windows 10 phone
From: Ian Finder
Sent: 16 May 2016 23:48
To: Jarratt RMA; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Best LCDs for retrocomputing - Was: Re: New *square* 1:1 26.5"LCD
monitor 1920x1920
Addendum-
This thread ?(http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=44692) ?seems to indicate the
2007FP CAN do 15hkz on the VGA / RGB input... so maybe you're all good. Anyone here
want to test?
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
This post: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-16744.html
Seems to indicate that the Rainbow is a 15khz sync?signal, more akin to normal interlaced
video- which I called out in my other post as being?the one?type of signal
that?doesn't always work?for these displays.
You may find success using a GBS-8220 scan-doubler, (ebay, c.?$28 USD),?perhaps with a
sync-strainer circuit to feed the SoG signal to the Scan Doubler as composite sync, if it
doesn't work directly with the 2007FP.
Curious to hear what you figure out.
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Jarratt RMA <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
? ? ?On 16 May 2016 at 22:52 Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
wrote:
? ? ?On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
? ? ?> I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
? ? ?> Dell 2007FP-
? ? ?> There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
? ? ?>
? ? ?> They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
? ? ?>
? ? ?> They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
? ? ?> scalers.
? ? ?In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I remember
these
? ? ?monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in video for
? ? ?aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but remember being irked at the
time
? ? ?that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI input,
? ? ?hahaha.
He had another one at that price (the last one apparently), so I have bagged
that one. I tried my Viewsonic, which does SoG, on my Rainbow at the weekend,
but that didn't work, perhaps this will. Even if it doesn't it will still be a
good second monitor for my everyday PC.
Regards
Rob
--
?? Ian Finder
?? (206) 395-MIPS
?? ian.finder at gmail.com
--
?? Ian Finder
?? (206) 395-MIPS
?? ian.finder at gmail.com
8:27 a.m.
This post:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-16744.html
Seems to indicate that the Rainbow is a 15khz sync signal, more akin to
The Rainbow outputs a normal RS170-like composite video signal with the
same timings (so 15-odd kHz horizontal, 60Hz vertical). There is a setup
option for 50Hz vertical I think, if so it's going to be close to European
analogue TV rates.
This composite signal is the monochrome output. If you have a colour
video board, it is used as the green signal (which is thus SoG) and there
are separate red and blue signals. Obviously all at the same rate.
-tony
3:30 p.m.
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
This post:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-16744.html
Seems to indicate that the Rainbow is a 15khz sync signal, more akin to
normal interlaced video- which I called out in my other post as being the
one type of signal that doesn't always work for these displays.
You may find success using a GBS-8220 scan-doubler, (ebay, c. $28
USD), perhaps with a sync-strainer circuit to feed the SoG signal to the
Scan Doubler as composite sync, if it doesn't work directly with the
2007FP.
Curious to hear what you figure out.
Another Dell that people mention is the Ultrasharp 2001FP. Apparently you
want one that was made before June 2005, because then it would be sure to
do 15kHz; some models going up to September 2005 apparently also had
support, but it's not guaranteed.
Do either the 2001 or 2007 support *digital* RGB/CGA out of the box?
--
Eric Christopherson
3:58 p.m.
I was under the impression it was the same as analog RGB, but for shitty
cards that don't USE the analog-ness of the RGB standard, and just have two
state- 0 directly to _MAX in "analog value"
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
On May 17, 2016, at 3:30 PM, Eric Christopherson
<
echristopherson at gmail.com> wrote:
...
Do either the 2001 or 2007 support *digital* RGB/CGA out of the box?
What is "digital RGB"? I know RGB as a trio of analog signals. HDMI is
digital, as is DVI; did you mean those?
paul
4:05 p.m.
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I was under the impression it was the same as analog
RGB, but for shitty
cards that don't USE the analog-ness of the RGB standard, and just have two
state- 0 directly to _MAX in "analog value"
Yes. It's TTL level. Since posing my question, I've gotten a tiny bit more
educated:
1. Some sites talk about e.g. arcade graphics as being "analog CGA" -- I
was acquainted with these being called "analog RGB" but never saw
"analog"
and "CGA" together before.
2. There are computers knocking about with actual digital RGB signals, like
the BBC Micro B (IIRC). What I forgot to make explicit in my question was
that I was asking about RGBI (+intensity), which AIUI is the same as CGA.
Now, I'm confused about point 1: did actual PCs with CGA have both digital
(TTL) and analog signaling?
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
--
Eric Christopherson
On May 17, 2016, at 3:30 PM, Eric Christopherson
<
echristopherson at gmail.com> wrote:
...
Do either the 2001 or 2007 support *digital* RGB/CGA out of the box?
What is "digital RGB"? I know RGB as a trio of analog signals. HDMI is
digital, as is DVI; did you mean those?
paul
4:56 p.m.
1. Some sites talk about e.g. arcade graphics as being "analog CGA" -- I
was acquainted with these being called "analog RGB" but never saw
"analog"
and "CGA" together before.
I susepct it means that it's 3 analogue signals (one for each colour) at the
CGA (== US TV, RS170) scan rates. As opposed, say, to VGA which is 3
analogue signals with a rather higher horizontal scan rate.
2. There are computers knocking about with actual
digital RGB signals, like
the BBC Micro B (IIRC). What I forgot to make explicit in my question was
Yes, it dodes. The BBC micro has 3 TTL signals on the RGB connector. A
total of 8 possible colours.
that I was asking about RGBI (+intensity), which AIUI
is the same as CGA.
Normally yes. I don't see any reason why RGBI signals could not be used
at a different scan rate, but AFAIK no machine ever did.
Now, I'm confused about point 1: did actual PCs
with CGA have both digital
(TTL) and analog signaling?
Not really. The original CGA card, and most clones, have a composite video
output too with NTSC-encoded colour, but that is not what you are asking
about.
-tony
18 May
18 May
12:37 a.m.
On May 17, 2016, at 1:05 PM, Eric Christopherson <echristopherson at gmail.com>
wrote:
2. There are computers knocking about with actual digital RGB signals, like
the BBC Micro B (IIRC). What I forgot to make explicit in my question was
that I was asking about RGBI (+intensity), which AIUI is the same as CGA.
I think the Apple /// also output a digital RGB signal that was either RGBI or a couple
bits per channel.
-- Chris
1:44 a.m.
"moroless"
Firstly, CGA is RGBI (digital RGB, with R, G, B and I for Intensity. But
there is a small difference in color 6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Graphics_Adapter (see "Color Pallete")
- Arcade graphics are analog RGB in TV resolution (480i, 15.750KHz
horizontal, 60Hz vertical)
- CGA is **never** analog.
- Lots of old computers use RGBI (digital RGB). From my head: BBC mod. B,
Sinclair Spectrum +2/+3, Commodore 128, Amiga (yes, it outputs digital AND
analog RGB)
- There is no such thing as a CGA board with analog outputs.
2016-05-17 17:05 GMT-03:00 Eric Christopherson <echristopherson at gmail.com>:
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Ian Finder
<ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Eric Christopherson
I was under the impression it was the same as
analog RGB, but for shitty
cards that don't USE the analog-ness of the RGB standard, and just have
two
state- 0 directly to _MAX in "analog
value"
Yes. It's TTL level. Since posing my question, I've gotten a tiny bit more
educated:
1. Some sites talk about e.g. arcade graphics as being "analog CGA" -- I
was acquainted with these being called "analog RGB" but never saw
"analog"
and "CGA" together before.
2. There are computers knocking about with actual digital RGB signals, like
the BBC Micro B (IIRC). What I forgot to make explicit in my question was
that I was asking about RGBI (+intensity), which AIUI is the same as CGA.
Now, I'm confused about point 1: did actual PCs with CGA have both digital
(TTL) and analog signaling?
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> > On May 17, 2016, at 3:30 PM, Eric Christopherson <
> echristopherson at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> > Do either the 2001 or 2007 support *digital* RGB/CGA out of the box?
>
> What is "digital RGB"? I know RGB as a trio of analog signals. HDMI
is
digital,
as is DVI; did you mean those?
paul
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
17 May
17 May
2:52 a.m.
On 16 May 2016, at 23:25, Jarratt RMA
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
And seemingly another 8 have appeared at this price, so I've snagged one too!
?15 p&p seems a little rich but a 4:3 TFT that does SoG and 15Khz scan for ?50 strikes
me as an absolute bargain overall. Smart looking monitor too IMO. Will look well with the
Crimson!
-Austin.
On 16 May 2016 at 22:52 Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
wrote:
He had another one at that price (the last one apparently), so I have bagged
that one. I tried my Viewsonic, which does SoG, on my Rainbow at the weekend,
but that didn't work, perhaps this will. Even if it doesn't it will still be a
good second monitor for my everyday PC.
Regards
Rob On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder"
<ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
scalers.
In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I remember
these
monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in video for
aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but remember being irked at the
time
that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI input,
hahaha.
18 May
18 May
6:41 p.m.
New subject: When is Composite Video not composite video (was: Best LCDs for retrocomputing)
Hi folks,
So, my 'new' monitor arrives today, beautifully packed and I wasted no time
in testing all ports; should've brought home the monitor tester I have at
work since it can generate Weird Frequencies, in fact I'll take the screen
in tomorrow and hook it up.
Anyhoo, all good apart from s-video which I can't test without something
that outputs s-video. I know the Commodore 64 does but I haven't made up a
cable for that yet, another thing on the TUIT list. Composite tested
courtesy of an original Playstation and Raspberry Pi.
Then I remembered that I've composite modded a Sinclair Spectrum and a ZX81
and I get no picture at all with those, like the signal is too weak for the
monitor to pick up. Said pair of machines work fine on my 2008-era LCD TV
though so does anyone know what the difference might be?
Just because I could I hooked the Spectrum up to an Apple ][ Monitor and
that works fine - http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/IMG_8839.JPG
Are there variations to the PAL Composite standard?
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
------ Forwarded Message
From: Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 22:52:48 +0100
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Conversation: Best LCDs for retrocomputing - Was: Re: New *square* 1:1 26.5"
LCD monitor 1920x1920
Subject: Re: Best LCDs for retrocomputing - Was: Re: New *square* 1:1 26.5"
LCD monitor 1920x1920
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD
for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar scalers.
In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I remember these
monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in video for
aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but remember being irked at the time
that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI input,
hahaha.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
------ End of Forwarded Message
7:23 p.m.
New subject: When is Composite Video not composite video
On 5/19/2016 8:41 AM, Adrian Graham wrote:
Then I remembered that I've composite modded a
Sinclair Spectrum and a ZX81
and I get no picture at all with those, like the signal is too weak for the
monitor to pick up. Said pair of machines work fine on my 2008-era LCD TV
though so does anyone know what the difference might be?
Just because I could I hooked the Spectrum up to an Apple ][ Monitor and
that works fine - http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/IMG_8839.JPG
Are there variations to the PAL Composite standard?
I think that the problem is probably that the Spectrum and ZX81 didn't
actually comply with the standard so much as use it as a general guideline.
Analogue monitors could cope, but many LCDs cant.
Doug
7:38 p.m.
New subject: When is Composite Video not composite video (was: Best LCDs for retrocomputing)
FWIW, the port I have tested a lot and can vouch for is the RGB / VGA.
Haven't done much with the composite.
But... my Sinclair QL with composite mod (NTSC) seems to work, and I
thought it used the same chips?
- Ian
On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk
wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> So, my 'new' monitor arrives today, beautifully packed and I wasted no time
> in testing all ports; should've brought home the monitor tester I have at
> work since it can generate Weird Frequencies, in fact I'll take the screen
> in tomorrow and hook it up.
>
> Anyhoo, all good apart from s-video which I can't test without something
> that outputs s-video. I know the Commodore 64 does but I haven't made up a
> cable for that yet, another thing on the TUIT list. Composite tested
> courtesy of an original Playstation and Raspberry Pi.
>
> Then I remembered that I've composite modded a Sinclair Spectrum and a ZX81
> and I get no picture at all with those, like the signal is too weak for the
> monitor to pick up. Said pair of machines work fine on my 2008-era LCD TV
> though so does anyone know what the difference might be?
>
> Just because I could I hooked the Spectrum up to an Apple ][ Monitor and
> that works fine - http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/IMG_8839.JPG
>
> Are there variations to the PAL Composite standard?
>
> --
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
>
>
>
>
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk>
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2016 22:52:48 +0100
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Conversation: Best LCDs for retrocomputing - Was: Re: New *square* 1:1
> 26.5"
> LCD monitor 1920x1920
> Subject: Re: Best LCDs for retrocomputing - Was: Re: New *square* 1:1 26.5"
> LCD monitor 1920x1920
>
> On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
> > Dell 2007FP-
> > There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
> >
> > They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
> >
> > They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
> scalers.
>
> In fact there was one available for ukp35 so it's now mine. I remember
> these
> monitors from a few years ago at a customer that specialised in video for
> aeroplanes, I used one not quite daily but remember being irked at the time
> that it was several button presses needed to get from VGA to DVI input,
> hahaha.
>
> --
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>
>
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
16 May
16 May
7:17 p.m.
On 05/16/2016 02:13 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD
for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar scalers.
They sync to SoG, and have no trouble with oddball resolutions like
1152x8-whatever.
Any idea if they support arcade-type frequencies and inputs (i.e. TV rates
and composite sync with separate analog RGB inputs)?
I'm keeping an eye out for something that will work properly with an old
Jamma board that I have (I currently have it hooked up via a mess of
resistors to an old green-screen mono display sitting on its side :-)
cheers
Jules
7:35 p.m.
See prior references in the thread to 15khz input for "Arcade frequencies".
I have not tested it, some reports appear to indicate that it works.
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
On 05/16/2016 02:13 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to
LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
scalers.
They sync to SoG, and have no trouble with oddball resolutions like
1152x8-whatever.
Any idea if they support arcade-type frequencies and inputs (i.e. TV rates
and composite sync with separate analog RGB inputs)?
I'm keeping an eye out for something that will work properly with an old
Jamma board that I have (I currently have it hooked up via a mess of
resistors to an old green-screen mono display sitting on its side :-)
cheers
Jules
17 May
17 May
8:03 a.m.
On 05/16/2016 06:35 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
See prior references in the thread to 15khz input for
"Arcade frequencies".
I have not tested it, some reports appear to indicate that it works.
Thanks... I'll prod my local recycler I think and let him know that I'm on
the look out for Dell displays, maybe he'll just happen to have one of the
right kind come in.
it would be the sync signal that I'd be concerned about, I know I've found
screens before which will handle the ~ 15KHz rate OK, but they still expect
separate H/V sync lines rather than composite (and splitting syncs seems to
be a bit more involved than combining them - well, trivial with the right
IC, but I mean using parts that might just happen to be kicking around in
my electronics stash :-)
J.
20 May
20 May
6:16 p.m.
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD
for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar scalers.
They sync to SoG, and have no trouble with oddball resolutions like
1152x8-whatever.
My SGI stuff can drive it at native resolution. As an added bonus, you can
disable scaling if you want black bars and native resolution.
These are readily available for ~$35, and I have at least 6.
Hi Ian (and list),
Quick question, have you ever used a plain ol' composite input on yours?
Turns out my problem isn't just my problem, people have been having the same
issue since the screens were new - composite input just doesn't work unless
it's a very specific set of circumstances. That or there's a particular
setup required that isn't documented anywhere...
So far I've tried:
Spectrum (composite)
ZX81 (composite)
Raspberry Pi B
Apple ][GS
Amiga 1200
Amiga CD32 (this one *nearly* works, I get the splash screen)
Playstation 1 (ditto)
EACA VideoGenie
Have you got any of those kicking around you could plug in and test for me?
Cheers,
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
8:05 p.m.
I mostly use the display for its fantastic handling and scaling of RGB
formats via the VGA connector.
I collect mostly old workstation class hardware and I care a lot about
image quality.
I'm not much of a microcomputer collector, and have used the composite
input very, very sparingly.
However, I have had enough issues in the past with the composite video
"standard" on various non-analog CRT display devices that I keep a timebase
corrector nearby and readily available. I find this a "must" for anyone
relying on composite stuff in this day and age.
I can try a IIgs- the only things I've tried over composite, I listed in
the other post.
Cheers,
- Ian
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk
wrote:
> On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to LCD for retro stuff is the
> > Dell 2007FP-
> > There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
> >
> > They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
> >
> > They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
> scalers.
> >
> > They sync to SoG, and have no trouble with oddball resolutions like
> > 1152x8-whatever.
> >
> > My SGI stuff can drive it at native resolution. As an added bonus, you
> can
> > disable scaling if you want black bars and native resolution.
> >
> > These are readily available for ~$35, and I have at least 6.
>
> Hi Ian (and list),
>
> Quick question, have you ever used a plain ol' composite input on yours?
> Turns out my problem isn't just my problem, people have been having the
> same
> issue since the screens were new - composite input just doesn't work unless
> it's a very specific set of circumstances. That or there's a particular
> setup required that isn't documented anywhere...
>
> So far I've tried:
>
> Spectrum (composite)
> ZX81 (composite)
> Raspberry Pi B
> Apple ][GS
> Amiga 1200
> Amiga CD32 (this one *nearly* works, I get the splash screen)
> Playstation 1 (ditto)
> EACA VideoGenie
>
> Have you got any of those kicking around you could plug in and test for me?
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Adrian/Witchy
> Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
> Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
> collection?
>
>
>
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
8:08 p.m.
I will do some tests of the composite input this weekend with and without
TBC and see what I find.
I'll have to do a bit of digging for composite devices but I should have a
few.
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I mostly use the display for its fantastic handling
and scaling of RGB
formats via the VGA connector.
I collect mostly old workstation class hardware and I care a lot about
image quality.
I'm not much of a microcomputer collector, and have used the composite
input very, very sparingly.
However, I have had enough issues in the past with the composite video
"standard" on various non-analog CRT display devices that I keep a timebase
corrector nearby and readily available. I find this a "must" for anyone
relying on composite stuff in this day and age.
I can try a IIgs- the only things I've tried over composite, I listed in
the other post.
Cheers,
- Ian
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Adrian Graham <
witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
On 16/05/2016 20:13, "Ian Finder"
<ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
I dunno if it's relevant or not, but my go-to
LCD for retro stuff is the
Dell 2007FP-
There was a panel lottery, some are TN, some IPS. Both are solid.
They are 4:3, 1600x1200 native.
They have DVI, VGA, Composite and S-Video inputs, and very stellar
scalers.
They sync to SoG, and have no trouble with oddball resolutions like
1152x8-whatever.
My SGI stuff can drive it at native resolution. As an added bonus, you
can
disable scaling if you want black bars and native
resolution.
These are readily available for ~$35, and I have at least 6.
Hi Ian (and list),
Quick question, have you ever used a plain ol' composite input on yours?
Turns out my problem isn't just my problem, people have been having the
same
issue since the screens were new - composite input just doesn't work
unless
it's a very specific set of circumstances. That or there's a particular
setup required that isn't documented anywhere...
So far I've tried:
Spectrum (composite)
ZX81 (composite)
Raspberry Pi B
Apple ][GS
Amiga 1200
Amiga CD32 (this one *nearly* works, I get the splash screen)
Playstation 1 (ditto)
EACA VideoGenie
Have you got any of those kicking around you could plug in and test for
me?
Cheers,
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
21 May
21 May
2:21 a.m.
New subject: Best LCDs for retrocomputing - Was: Re: New *square* 1:1 26.5"LCD monitor 1920x1920
On 21/05/2016 01:08, "Ian Finder" <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
I will do some tests of the composite input this
weekend with and without
TBC and see what I find.
I'll have to do a bit of digging for composite devices but I should have a
few.
Brilliant, thanks!
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
2985
days inactive
2990
days old
30 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
austinpass＠gmail.com -
cmhanson＠eschatologist.net -
doug＠doughq.com -
echristopherson＠gmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
ian.finder＠gmail.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pete＠petelancashire.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk