5 Dec
2018
5 Dec
'18
3:59 a.m.
I thought folk might enjoy this short-ish (~12min) Youtube video
showing startup of arguably the first ever Sun workstation, from a
contemporaneous SunOS... I did.
Permission obtained before x-posting, naturally.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Walter Belgers <walter+rescue at belgers.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 12:34
Subject: Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise
on Sun2 disk install)
To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org>
Hi,
Another update in case you are interested:
I rescued a keyboard and mouse to go with the Sun2. I also installed SunOS 3.2
on disk. I took a different route: I installed FreeBSD, installed tme on top
of that and using the information at
https://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/
<https://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/>,
http://www.heeltoe.com/index.php?n=Retro.Sun2
<http://www.heeltoe.com/index.php?n=Retro.Sun2> and
http://typewritten.org/Projects/Sun/8-4841.html
<http://typewritten.org/Projects/Sun/8-4841.html> I installed SunOS 3.2 from
virtual tapes onto a virtual harddrive. I then copied the virtual drive to a
real drive and hooked it up. I could then boot SunOS 3.2!
I then took the one TTL monitor I have (for the 2/50) and hooked it up to a
bwtwo. At first it did not work, apparently it must be in a specific slot. I
added 1MB as well, so the cage is fully populated. That extra MB is used by
the btwo. The monitor still worked and I was able to run the graphical
windowing system.
I had the system on the internet for a couple of hours yesterday, some people
logged in remotely and it still felt surprisingly fast. Only when you start
hammering the disk it is slow (SCSI-1 is slower than ESDI drives I read).
I made a movie of the box, it can be viewed here: https://youtu.be/CoAYs0Uc7As
<https://youtu.be/CoAYs0Uc7As>
Cheers,
Walter.
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
5 Dec
5 Dec
2:12 p.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Dec 5, 2018, at 3:59 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I thought folk might enjoy this short-ish (~12min) Youtube video
showing startup of arguably the first ever Sun workstation
It?s a Sun-2 so it?s not really arguable whether it?s the first ever Sun workstation: It?s
not.
-- Chris
6 Dec
6 Dec
3 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson <cmhanson at eschatologist.net> wrote:
It?s a Sun-2 so it?s not really arguable whether it?s the first ever Sun workstation:
It?s not.
Not my claim; the author of the video's. Take it up with him, if
you're on the Rescue List.
But I am mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is,
if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap
display...
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
3:44 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:19 AM Liam Proven via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson <cmhanson at eschatologist.net> wrote:
I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was
made by Sun.
I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the
'first' model.
-tony
It?s a Sun-2 so it?s not really arguable whether it?s the first ever Sun workstation:
It?s not.
Not my claim; the author of the video's. Take it up with him, if
you're on the Rescue List.
But I am mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is,
if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap
display...
4:28 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell <ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it was
made by Sun.
I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the
'first' model.
Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with
the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum
back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the
world of academic Unix usage. :-)
Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was
a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's
not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no
windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation.
But as a single-user Unix machine, yes, it unquestionably qualifies,
and I need to redefine my terms and my thinking a little...
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
6:13 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On 12/06/2018 07:28 AM, Liam Proven via cctech wrote:
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell
<ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
During my days at DEC in the later 80s the definition of workstation was
1MIPS processing power,
1M pixels, Desktop or desk side (fairly compact).? Graphics and
processing power were high
and lots of ram and sufficient local disk as well.? Most of the machines
were RISC based,
Sun (sparc), MIPS, or ARM powered.
Allsion
I don't think anyone is questioning that
it's a workstation, and that it was
made by Sun.
I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the
'first' model.
Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally
unfamiliar with
the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum
back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the
world of academic Unix usage. :-)
Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was
a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's
not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no
windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation.
But as a single-user Unix machine, yes, it unquestionably qualifies,
and I need to redefine my terms and my thinking a little...
6:21 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of allison via cctech
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 9:13 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk
install)
On 12/06/2018 07:28 AM, Liam Proven via cctech wrote:
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell
<ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
During my days at DEC in the later 80s the definition of workstation was 1MIPS processing
power,
1M pixels, Desktop or desk side (fairly compact). Graphics and processing power were
high
and lots of ram and sufficient local disk as well. Most of the machines were RISC based,
Sun (sparc), MIPS, or ARM powered.
Allsion
-----
And cost no more than a "megapenny" ;->.
See the CMU "3M" definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M_computer
-----
I don't think anyone is questioning that
it's a workstation, and that it was
made by Sun.
I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the
'first' model.
Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally
unfamiliar with
the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum
back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the
world of academic Unix usage. :-)
Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was
a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's
not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no
windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation.
But as a single-user Unix machine, yes, it unquestionably qualifies,
and I need to redefine my terms and my thinking a little...
6:34 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 15:13, allison via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
During my days at DEC in the later 80s the definition
of workstation was
1MIPS processing power,
1M pixels, Desktop or desk side (fairly compact). Graphics and
processing power were high
and lots of ram and sufficient local disk as well. Most of the machines
were RISC based,
Sun (sparc), MIPS, or ARM powered.
Reminiscent of NeXT's "3M computer":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M_computer
1 megapixel, 1 megabyte, 1 MIPS.
ISTM that the Sun-1 fails the megapixel requirement, but on further
reading, e.g.
http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/computer-graphics-music-and-art/1…
, only narrowly.
I think I scanned the Wikipedia article too quickly this morning...
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
6:59 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie
On 06/12/2018 12:28, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics
adapter, and was
a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's
not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no
windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation.
That's simply not true. The first Sun 1 was actually designed as a CAD
system, and did indeed have graphics. *Does* have graphics, I should
say, as I've seen it.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
10:55 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:39 AM Liam Proven via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Tony Duell
<ard.p850ug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a
text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal.
See the picture in this article, for example:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sun-Microsystems-Inc
- Josh
I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation, and that it
was
made by Sun.
I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be
the
'first' model.
Ah! Excellent point. I have to admit, I was totally unfamiliar with
the very early Sun products. I was happy with my little ZX Spectrum
back then, and being about 14, wasn't paying much attention to the
world of academic Unix usage. :-)
Looking up the SUN-1, I see that it lacked a graphics adapter, and was
a text-only machine. I didn't know that. That alone means that it's
not really what I think of when I think of a Sun workstation: no
windowing system means that for me it's not really a workstation.
11:11 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 19:55, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display and was not a text-only machine, it
did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal.
See the picture in this article, for example:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sun-Microsystems-Inc
FWIW, no pic for me in that article.
But yes, I skim-read the wikipedia page and got the wrong impression.
I've already confessed and apologised in this thread.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
2:39 p.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Dec 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Josh Dersch via cctech wrote:
The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a display
and was not a
text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal.
The bwone is a 1024x1024 framebuffer. 768 lines visible; the rest was offscreen.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
7 Dec
7 Dec
11:23 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Dec 6, 2018, at 2:39 PM, r.stricklin wrote:
On Dec 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Josh Dersch via cctech
wrote:
Josh is correct, 800 lines visible. I was thinking of something else.
ok
bear.
--
until further notice
The Sun-1 absolutely had a framebuffer and a
display and was not a
text-only machine, it did 1024x800 at 1bpp, had a mouse, the whole deal.
The bwone is a 1024x1024 framebuffer. 768 lines visible; the rest was offscreen.
6 Dec
6 Dec
6:51 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie
On 06/12/2018 11:44, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
Particularly since I know someone, not far from here, who has a Sun 1.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:19 AM Liam Proven via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson <cmhanson at eschatologist.net>
wrote:
>>
>> It?s a Sun-2 so it?s not really arguable whether it?s the first ever Sun
workstation: It?s not.
But I am
mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is,
if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap
display...
I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a workstation,
and that it was
made by Sun.
I think the problem is over 'first' and that a Sun-2 is not going to be the
'first' model. 
12:57 p.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
It???s a Sun-2 so it???s not really arguable whether
it???s the first
ever Sun workstation: It???s not.
Definitions tend to be RIGID, but completely arbitrary.
"MEGAPIXEL" is nice, but enough to EXCLUDE 1024 x 800 ?
"First": The author is unaware of anything prior, or all prior instances
were in some way uninteresting and unacceptable for the author's use. eg.
"Apple2 was the first personal computer", "first book typed on a word
processor", etc.
"Workstation": Any location where an oppressed worker is compelled to
toil.
"Multimedia": Two or more Kodak Carousel projectors with a soundtrack.
(college "DEFINITION", not "example"!, from half a century ago)
One day, our otherwise very dignified department chair came running into
the student computer lab (3 dozen 386SX generic PCs), yelling "We're
getting SUNS! We're getting SUNS! The loading dock just told me that
there are three big boxes labelled 'Multimedia Workstation'!". Later that
day, two of the three boxes arrived (the third had been pilfered by an
administrator). They were fancy wheeled computer desks for the demo
machines in our classrooms, to replace the vintage 5150 rolling
standup presentation carts that had been the right height (projector
should be taller than desk) and lockable.
1:39 p.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 21:57, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Definitions tend to be RIGID, but completely arbitrary.
"MEGAPIXEL" is nice, but enough to EXCLUDE 1024 x 800 ?
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so.
"First": The author is unaware of anything
prior, or all prior instances
were in some way uninteresting and unacceptable for the author's use. eg.
"Apple2 was the first personal computer", "first book typed on a word
processor", etc.
A fair cop.
"Workstation": Any location where an
oppressed worker is compelled to
toil.
Ouch. I have one of those.
"Multimedia": Two or more Kodak Carousel
projectors with a soundtrack.
(college "DEFINITION", not "example"!, from half a century ago)
Heh.
One day, our otherwise very dignified department chair
came running into
the student computer lab (3 dozen 386SX generic PCs), yelling "We're
getting SUNS! We're getting SUNS! The loading dock just told me that
there are three big boxes labelled 'Multimedia Workstation'!". Later that
day, two of the three boxes arrived (the third had been pilfered by an
administrator). They were fancy wheeled computer desks for the demo
machines in our classrooms, to replace the vintage 5150 rolling
standup presentation carts that had been the right height (projector
should be taller than desk) and lockable.
Oh, the humanity...
I must admit, at the time, I liked the "3M" definition. It's also a
nod to the famed 3M corporation, which was one of the first I met to
successfully pretty much completely obscure what the three Ems
actually stood for, so diversified was its business that it was no
longer anything to do with its actual name.
So conflating 3 entirely unrelated Ems together, and the facetious
ETLA-style *fourth* Em, was, ISTM, a facetious reference to this.
It seemed like a laudable goal at the time.
Now, we all have them, and we've totally squandered that power. It is to weep.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
8:03 a.m.
New subject: [rescue] Sun2/120 SunOS 3.2 suntools movie (was: advise on Sun2 disk install)
On Dec 6, 2018, at 3:00 AM, Liam Proven via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Isn?t the author?s claim that this was Sun?s first server?
alan
On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:12, Chris Hanson
<cmhanson at eschatologist.net> wrote:
It?s a Sun-2 so it?s not really arguable whether it?s the first ever Sun workstation:
It?s not.
Not my claim; the author of the video's. Take it up with him, if
you're on the Rescue List.
But I am mildly curious what your definition of a Sun workstation is,
if it excludes a 680x0 machine with Unix and a big monochome bitmap
display...
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
2207
days inactive
2209
days old
16 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
allisonportable＠gmail.com -
aperry＠snowmoose.com -
ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com -
bear＠typewritten.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cmhanson＠eschatologist.net -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
pbirkel＠gmail.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com