Does the TU-58 use a standard RS-232 serial interface? Is the protocol defined somewhere? Thanks, David On Jun 3, 2005, at 11:46 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

On 6/3/05, David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.mv.com> wrote: Yes. The TU58 drive is strappable, but 38Kbps is a standard speed. Yes... I know it's written up in several DEC manuals, some of which are probably on bitsavers. The basic protocol is called "Radial Serial Protocol" (RSP), but, I think, for newer implementations, like in the firmware of a VAX-11/750, there are some variations that, while documented, aren't as easy to find as the base documentation. It's ordinary to hook a real TU58 on a port of a DLJ11J... one can even use a straight-through 10-pin Berg cable - it's the same pinout (one of DEC's standards). It's also possible to emulate a TU58 on a modern PC, or to hook up a real TU58 to a modern machine to read tapes. I don't have my tools with me, but googling for TU58 and emulator will probably cough up something interesting. Media size is a bit of a problem - a real TU58 is kinda small, even compared to an 8" floppy. Speed isn't great - at least an emulated drive doesn't have seek delays, but transfer speed becomes the bottleneck. OTOH, there are drivers for RT-11, and it _is_ a simple device to emulate. If only it were a few megs in size, it would be adequate for quite a few applications.

Cool. Thanks! I wonder if it can boot RT-11? On Jun 3, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote:

Jerome Fine replies: RT-11 can boot any device which looks like a disk drive - for which there is also the boot code in the device driver. Thus far I am not aware of any such devices that do not have the needed boot code, including the DD(X).SYS device driver for the TU-58. There is, of course, ONE exception - the LD(X).SYS device driver which is DEC's answer in RT-11 for sub-directories. If you first want to become experienced with RT-11 without all the hardware problems, then there are several V05.03 RT-11 distributions available. One of those distributions also includes all of the prior RT-11 distributions. The file, RT11DV10.ISO.zip is at: http://www.classiccmp.org/PDP-11/RT-11/dists/ Note that you can actually boot the CD that can be burned from RT11DV10.ISO (after you UnZip the file). Or if you run SIMH, you can: ATTACH RQ0: RT11DV10.ISO SET RQ0: LOCK BOOT RQ0: to run V05.03 of RT-11. Of course, you can also legally run under E11 if you purchase an RT-11 license from Mentec for about $ US 900 (the latest price I have heard) and perhaps the distribution kit for $ US 1600 (also the latest I have heard). For hobby use, there is no charge for the hobby use of E11. The E11 commands are: MOUNT DU0: RT11DV10.ISO/RONLY BOOT DU0: If you can use some help with running RT-11, please ask If you really want to run on real DEC hardware, then you obviously need some sort of disk drive as well. Even a TU-58 needs additional space and the 4 * 4 backplane is just too small to be really useful. The BA23 box is probably a much better solution since there is also space for 2 * 5 1/4" drives and the power to run them. An M7555 RQDX3 and an RX50 floppy is probably two orders of magnitude better than a TU-58. A hard disk drive might be a bit more difficult, although an old ST412 at 10 MBytes looks like (actually is) an RD51. But until you know a bit about RT-11, I still suggest that using an emulator is much more effective - especially if you are running RT-11 because you want to use the software, not the hardware. As an RT-11 software addict, I use an emulator to run RT-11 99.9% of the time. Both SIMH and E11 are acceptable - but even the hobby version of E11 is, in my experience, an order of magnitude better. Now if you want to discuss the commercial version of E11, ... Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005, Stan Barr wrote: I am absolutely AMAZED that it took this long for anyone to suggest this. The PC-DOS based TU58 emulator works like a champ, and the PUTR program for managing media images is an excellent companion. Get everything you need here: http://www.fpns.net/willy/pdp11/ The emulator executable is in: http://www.fpns.net/willy/pdp11/rt11arc.exe The documentation is here: http://www.fpns.net/willy/pdp11/rt11arc.txt Get PUTR (and it's documenation) here: http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ And if you'd like to own putr.com, it's only $2,999: http://putr.com/ Though I'm not sure why a stupid sounding URL would be useful to anyone at any price. Let me know if you need any assistance bringing this up. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]