27 Aug
2014
27 Aug
'14
10:08 a.m.
I am not sure about finding a CRT that will find that housing. It is VERY
tight in there and the cables are routed every which way. However, you could
always use the component out with another monitor if you wish. The 5155 uses
a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM 5144 to it in the past and it
does make for a sharper image.
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of cctalk-request at classiccmp.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:00 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 132, Issue 56
Send cctalk mailing list submissions to
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"Re: Contents of cctalk digest..."
27 Aug
27 Aug
11 a.m.
On Aug 27, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Ali Fahimi <afahimi at alumni.usc.edu> wrote:
I am not sure about finding a CRT that will find that
housing. It is VERY
tight in there and the cables are routed every which way. However, you could
always use the component out with another monitor if you wish. The 5155 uses
a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM 5144 to it in the past and it
does make for a sharper image.
Are you sure? I seemed to recall that it was a monochrome card. But then again
it was a *long* time ago.
TTFN - Guy
12:51 p.m.
CGA card, amber mono internal monitor.
On Aug 27, 2014, at 11:00, Guy Sotomayor <ggs at
shiresoft.com> wrote:
On Aug 27, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Ali Fahimi
<afahimi at alumni.usc.edu> wrote:
I am not sure about finding a CRT that will find that housing. It is VERY
tight in there and the cables are routed every which way. However, you could
always use the component out with another monitor if you wish. The 5155 uses
a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM 5144 to it in the past and it
does make for a sharper image.
Are you sure? I seemed to recall that it was a monochrome card. But then again
it was a *long* time ago.
TTFN - Guy
1:49 p.m.
> always use the component out with another monitor
if you wish. The 5155 uses
> a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM 5144 to it in the past and it
> does make for a sharper image.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
Are you sure? I seemed to recall that it was a
monochrome card. But then again
it was a *long* time ago.
CGA. it's "composite"! (kinda RS170)
However Compaq, in their machine, used a CGA/EGA B&W screen, with a COMPAQ
stock CGA or EGA board. The Compaq CGA and EGA boards had a small dual
row header connector near the center of the board that they connected to.
(2x5? 2x6? 2x8?)
That was the quick way to identify a Compaq CGA or EGA board (and Compaq
sometimes used a bracket with one extra bend on the end). One edition of
Scott Mueller's "Repair and Upgrade PC" had a Compaq CGA board in its
cover picture.
There was an accessory add-on for the ATI EGA Wonder board to add a Compaq
internal compatible connector!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6:54 p.m.
Fred,
You are absolutely correct. Got my terminology mixed up!
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Cisin [mailto:cisin at xenosoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 1:50 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 132, Issue 56
> always use the component out with another monitor
if you wish. The
> 5155 uses a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM 5144 to it in
> the past and it does make for a sharper image.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, Guy
Sotomayor wrote:
Are you sure? I seemed to recall that it was a
monochrome card. But
then again it was a *long* time ago.
CGA. it's "composite"! (kinda RS170)
However Compaq, in their machine, used a CGA/EGA B&W screen, with a COMPAQ
stock CGA or EGA board. The Compaq CGA and EGA boards had a small dual row
header connector near the center of the board that they connected to.
(2x5? 2x6? 2x8?)
That was the quick way to identify a Compaq CGA or EGA board (and Compaq
sometimes used a bracket with one extra bend on the end). One edition of
Scott Mueller's "Repair and Upgrade PC" had a Compaq CGA board in its cover
picture.
There was an accessory add-on for the ATI EGA Wonder board to add a Compaq
internal compatible connector!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6:54 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
Positive. I am looking at one right now ;)
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Sotomayor [mailto:ggs at shiresoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:00 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 132, Issue 56
On Aug 27, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Ali Fahimi <afahimi at alumni.usc.edu> wrote:
I am not sure about finding a CRT that will find that
housing. It is
VERY tight in there and the cables are routed every which way.
However, you could always use the component out with another monitor
if you wish. The 5155 uses a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM
5144 to it in the past and it does make for a sharper image.
Are you sure? I seemed to recall that it was a monochrome card. But then
again it was a *long* time ago.
TTFN - Guy
28 Aug
28 Aug
7:46 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
Ali Fahimi wrote:
Positive. I am looking at one right now ;)
Indeed. Like I said, I put a color monitor in mine.
Peace... Sridhar
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Sotomayor [mailto:ggs at shiresoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:00 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 132, Issue 56
On Aug 27, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Ali Fahimi <afahimi at alumni.usc.edu> wrote:
I am not sure about finding a CRT that will find
that housing. It is
VERY tight in there and the cables are routed every which way.
However, you could always use the component out with another monitor
if you wish. The 5155 uses a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM
5144 to it in the past and it does make for a sharper image.
Are you sure? I seemed to recall that it was a monochrome card. But then
again it was a *long* time ago.
TTFN - Guy
7:59 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
The ATI EGA Wonder is very small, and has a 4-pin connector for displaying
16-shade dither on the Compaq Portable and IBM 5155. TULARC had switch
settings for that variant, and a diagram. I believe there are also
variants of the EGA Wonder that do not have the 4-pin connector.
I have one of these in my 5155, so I can guarantee it works. Somewhere
online there are screenshots of Commander Keen 1 being played on it at a
VCF Midwest.
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Ali Fahimi <afahimi at alumni.usc.edu> wrote:
Positive. I am looking at one right now ;)
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Sotomayor [mailto:ggs at shiresoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:00 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 132, Issue 56
On Aug 27, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Ali Fahimi <afahimi at alumni.usc.edu> wrote:
I am not sure about finding a CRT that will find
that housing. It is
VERY tight in there and the cables are routed every which way.
However, you could always use the component out with another monitor
if you wish. The 5155 uses a std. CGA video card. I've hooked up a IBM
5144 to it in the past and it does make for a sharper image.
Are you sure? I seemed to recall that it was a monochrome card. But then
again it was a *long* time ago.
TTFN - Guy
8:28 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Julian Wolfe wrote:
The ATI EGA Wonder is very small, and has a 4-pin
connector for displaying
16-shade dither on the Compaq Portable and IBM 5155. TULARC had switch
settings for that variant, and a diagram. I believe there are also
variants of the EGA Wonder that do not have the 4-pin connector.
I have one of these in my 5155, so I can guarantee it works. Somewhere
online there are screenshots of Commander Keen 1 being played on it at a
VCF Midwest.
Besides using the 4 pin Berg ("composite" connector), . . .
When I first realized that the Compaq internal monitor was EGA capable,
I bought an ATI EGA Wonder, AND the additional daughterboard that gave
full EGA output to a connector identical to the Compaq internal connector
(and said daughterboard was sold explicitly for that purpose).
The 5155, OTOH, is not EGA. It is "composite" (kinda RS170). It connects
to the internal "composite" 4 pin Berg connector.
8:40 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
Just a curiosity question but why the distaste for amber? Bad flashbacks
or experience somewhere? I've never minded that color, just the plasma
ones that are a bit annoying in my mind (Compaq portable III).
An unsatisfactory fix could be a screen overlay
http://www.crossboweducation.com/visual-stress/overlays/monitor-overlays/
;-)
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Julian Wolfe wrote:
The ATI EGA Wonder is very small, and has a 4-pin
connector for
displaying
16-shade dither on the Compaq Portable and IBM
5155. TULARC had switch
settings for that variant, and a diagram. I believe there are also
variants of the EGA Wonder that do not have the 4-pin connector.
I have one of these in my 5155, so I can guarantee it works. Somewhere
online there are screenshots of Commander Keen 1 being played on it at a
VCF Midwest.
Besides using the 4 pin Berg ("composite" connector), . . .
When I first realized that the Compaq internal monitor was EGA capable,
I bought an ATI EGA Wonder, AND the additional daughterboard that gave
full EGA output to a connector identical to the Compaq internal connector
(and said daughterboard was sold explicitly for that purpose).
The 5155, OTOH, is not EGA. It is "composite" (kinda RS170). It connects
to the internal "composite" 4 pin Berg connector.
9:06 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Aug 28, 2014, at 08:40 , Sam O'nella <barythrin at gmail.com> wrote:
Just a curiosity question but why the distaste for
amber? Bad flashbacks
or experience somewhere? I've never minded that color, just the plasma
ones that are a bit annoying in my mind (Compaq portable III).
I can't explain it; I just think it's ugly. My dad says that using an amber
monitor makes him physically ill. It doesn't do that to me, but I just don't like
it.
But speaking of flashbacks, I have a deep and abiding dislike of all things Compaq, due
mostly to my association of them with the amber monitors they provided in the 1980s.
I wonder if I can learn to like the amber monitor in my new 5155? Maybe it can be an
acquired taste, like anchovies? :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
9:16 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
I wonder if I can learn to like the amber monitor in my new 5155? Maybe it can be an
acquired taste, like anchovies? :)
Anchovies are just briny salt seasoning, let them dissolve in a sauce and no one will ever
know :-)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
9:40 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
I wonder if I can learn to like the amber monitor in
my new 5155? Maybe it can be an acquired taste, like anchovies? :)
My recollection is that amber monitors were popular in government and workplaces because
they (theoretically) caused less eye strain in office environments. So maybe. I find them
somewhat boring, but not distasteful.
Anchovies, on the other hand, are mostly best when ground up into a sauce. They add a
wonderful savory punch (they're absolutely critical to good Worcestershire sauce). Try
getting a tube of anchovy paste instead, much easier. I just don't know about those
apostates who eat them whole on pizza.
- Dave
10:13 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On 08/28/2014 09:40 AM, David Riley wrote:
Anchovies, on the other hand, are mostly best when
ground up into a
sauce. They add a wonderful savory punch (they're absolutely critical
to good Worcestershire sauce). Try getting a tube of anchovy paste
instead, much easier. I just don't know about those apostates who eat
them whole on pizza.
The whole point of that is to keep other people from sitting too close
to you.
--Chuck
29 Aug
29 Aug
3:48 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:13:48AM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 08/28/2014 09:40 AM, David Riley wrote:
> Anchovies, on the other hand, are mostly best when ground up into a sauce.
> They add a wonderful savory punch (they're absolutely critical to good
> Worcestershire sauce). Try getting a tube of anchovy paste instead, much
> easier. I just don't know about those apostates who eat them whole on pizza.
The whole point of that is to keep other people from
sitting too close to
you.
There was this time I made a brussel-sprout curry...
28 Aug
28 Aug
10:31 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On 2014-Aug-28, at 9:40 AM, David Riley wrote:
Amber struck me as such a flavor-of-the-year thing (or decade). Mostly green-screen until
the late-70s, a brief flirtation with white and then amber started getting pushed on the
market in the 80's.
My favourite monochrome phosphor was the blue-green Tektronix used in some of its scopes
but I never saw a computer terminal that used it.
Something I haven't seen in a couple of decades is an example of those anti-glare
fittings from the 80's, the fine plastic mesh in a frame to be fit over the CRT
faceplate.
I wonder if I
can learn to like the amber monitor in my new 5155? Maybe it can be an acquired taste,
like anchovies? :)
My recollection is that amber monitors were popular in government and workplaces because
they (theoretically) caused less eye strain in office environments. So maybe. I find them
somewhat boring, but not distasteful.
9:58 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 09:06:33AM -0700, Mark J. Blair wrote:
[...]
I can't explain it; I just think it's ugly. My
dad says that using an amber
monitor makes him physically ill. It doesn't do that to me, but I just don't
like it.
My hypothesis is that the two of you are red-green colourblind and there's just
not enough contrast to read comfortably.
11:21 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Aug 28, 2014, at 09:58 , Peter Corlett <abuse at cabal.org.uk> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 09:06:33AM -0700, Mark J.
Blair wrote:
[...]
I can't speak for my dad, but that's not my issue with amber screens. I discern
red vs. green just fine; in fact, I have to pass red/green colorblindness tests annually
for my commercial driver's license. I have no problem with the contrast of amber
monitors, either. It's the hue of the phosphor that I dislike, in much the same way
that I prefer not to view things that are hot pink. A hot pink monitor phosphor would be
perfectly viewable, and some people would probably even like it, but I would consider it
to be eye-rape.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
I can't explain it; I just think it's
ugly. My dad says that using an amber
monitor makes him physically ill. It doesn't do that to me, but I just don't
like it.
My hypothesis is that the two of you are red-green colourblind and there's just
not enough contrast to read comfortably.
12:34 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
I do recall both green and amber were considered to cause less strain on
the eyes than white, especially during night time computing. I was sort of
wondering if IBM chose amber just because their competition (Compaq
Portable) already used green.
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
On Aug 28, 2014, at 09:58 , Peter Corlett <abuse at cabal.org.uk> wrote:
there's
just
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 09:06:33AM -0700, Mark J.
Blair wrote:
[...]
> I can't explain it; I just think it's ugly. My dad says that using an
amber
> monitor makes him physically ill. It
doesn't do that to me, but I just
don't
like it.
My hypothesis is that the two of you are red-green colourblind and not enough contrast to read comfortably.
I can't speak for my dad, but that's not my issue with amber screens. I
discern red vs. green just fine; in fact, I have to pass red/green
colorblindness tests annually for my commercial driver's license. I have no
problem with the contrast of amber monitors, either. It's the hue of the
phosphor that I dislike, in much the same way that I prefer not to view
things that are hot pink. A hot pink monitor phosphor would be perfectly
viewable, and some people would probably even like it, but I would consider
it to be eye-rape.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
2:13 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Aug 28, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Sam O'nella <barythrin at gmail.com> wrote:
I do recall both green and amber were considered to
cause less strain on
the eyes than white, especially during night time computing. I was sort of
wondering if IBM chose amber just because their competition (Compaq
Portable) already used green.
DEC terminals were initially white (VT05 through VT100). At some point in the VT220 era,
green and amber appeared as alternate colors. Somewhat after that, I think the original
black & white TV set style white changed to ?paper white?.
It would be interesting to find out the sales proportions of the three colors. I remember
them all; I never saw more than a handful of either green or amber.
Early on, green was associated with long persistence displays ? the GT40, the CDC dd60
console, etc. I know early IBM terminals (like the ones for TSO ?- 2550?) were green but
I?m not sure why. Amber showed up much later and as far as I could tell was just a fad
that appeared briefly and went nowhere.
The eyestrain argument has been made for any number of colors, even plasma panel orange.
I don?t know that it was ever more than marketing fictions. The only difference I know of
is that some people like one color and some prefer another.
paul
2:33 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
I always thought the white looked cool but I am partial to the amber and
green. The amber color reminds me of the monitor on my first computer (a
5160 w/ a Hercules compatible card) and there is something soothing about
the slow fade of the green phosphor. I say leave it be unless it really
bothers you, and if it does then you can always uses a 5153 w/ the 9 pin
connector or another monitor with the composite connector.
-Ali
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Paul Koning
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 2:13 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Aug 28, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Sam O'nella <barythrin at gmail.com> wrote:
I do recall both green and amber were considered to
cause less strain
on the eyes than white, especially during night time computing. I was
sort of wondering if IBM chose amber just because their competition
(Compaq
Portable) already used green.
DEC terminals were initially white (VT05 through VT100). At some point in
the VT220 era, green and amber appeared as alternate colors. Somewhat after
that, I think the original black & white TV set style white changed to
"paper white".
It would be interesting to find out the sales proportions of the three
colors. I remember them all; I never saw more than a handful of either
green or amber.
Early on, green was associated with long persistence displays - the GT40,
the CDC dd60 console, etc. I know early IBM terminals (like the ones for
TSO -- 2550?) were green but I'm not sure why. Amber showed up much later
and as far as I could tell was just a fad that appeared briefly and went
nowhere.
The eyestrain argument has been made for any number of colors, even plasma
panel orange. I don't know that it was ever more than marketing fictions.
The only difference I know of is that some people like one color and some
prefer another.
paul
2:45 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Ali wrote:
I always thought the white looked cool but I am
partial to the amber and
green. The amber color reminds me of the monitor on my first computer (a
5160 w/ a Hercules compatible card) and there is something soothing about
the slow fade of the green phosphor.
Light pens aren't very happy with that.
8:08 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
With which one? The white phosphor?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Fred Cisin
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 2:46 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Ali wrote:
I always thought the white looked cool but I am
partial to the amber
and green. The amber color reminds me of the monitor on my first
computer (a
5160 w/ a Hercules compatible card) and there is something soothing
about the slow fade of the green phosphor.
Light pens aren't very happy with that.
8:23 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
> 5160 w/ a Hercules compatible card) and there is
something soothing
> about the slow fade of the green phosphor.
Light pens aren't very happy with that.
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Ali wrote:
With which one? The white phosphor?
any slow fade.
previous post mentioned green.
IBM's mono had a long persistence green, one of several reasons why PC
lightpens didn't catch on
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6:11 p.m.
New subject: IBM 5155 Portable PC CRT Sacrilege
Right, my VT131 is white-on-black, and I have a VT420 in amber. I wasn't
really aware that anything but amber was available at least on the VT320
and VT420. Every single one I remember from days gone by was always in
amber. Most of the once-fairly-ubiquitous WY-60 terminals I remember were
also in amber. Maybe just the popular color where I was growing up?
IIRC, back then, there were perennial debates about which was better or
worse for eye strain... I always thought it was more an issue of personal
preference than anything else. Green is probably my favorite, although
seeing that amber always brings back feelings of DEC nostalgia for me.
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On Aug 28, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Sam O'nella <barythrin at gmail.com> wrote:
I do recall both green and amber were considered
to cause less strain on
the eyes than white, especially during night time computing. I was sort
of
wondering if IBM chose amber just because their
competition (Compaq
Portable) already used green.
DEC terminals were initially white (VT05 through VT100). At some point in
the VT220 era, green and amber appeared as alternate colors. Somewhat
after that, I think the original black & white TV set style white changed
to ?paper white?.
It would be interesting to find out the sales proportions of the three
colors. I remember them all; I never saw more than a handful of either
green or amber.
Early on, green was associated with long persistence displays ? the GT40,
the CDC dd60 console, etc. I know early IBM terminals (like the ones for
TSO ?- 2550?) were green but I?m not sure why. Amber showed up much later
and as far as I could tell was just a fad that appeared briefly and went
nowhere.
The eyestrain argument has been made for any number of colors, even plasma
panel orange. I don?t know that it was ever more than marketing fictions.
The only difference I know of is that some people like one color and some
prefer another.
paul
3549
days inactive
3551
days old
24 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
abuse＠cabal.org.uk -
afahimi＠alumni.usc.edu -
barythrin＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠fahimi.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
julian＠twinax.org -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
roeapeterson＠gmail.com -
scaron＠umich.edu