On 04/15/2013 04:26 PM, Terry Stewart wrote: Well, if money's not the driving factor, we can make an effort to sell/donate/trade with other enthusiasts, rather than listing on That Auction Site.... :-)

I know _I_ won't go near ebay (last I looked, there were three obvious reasons for me to avoid them, any one of which would have been sufficient). Even aside from that, I'd much rather a system go to someone who is interested in it for its own sake (like most of this list) than to someone to whom it's a consumable to be replaced as needed in some expensive-to-recertify system and not cared about otherwise - for example, if I'm looking to sell a machine, the price I'll ask from the latter is a lot higher than from the former. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

----- Original Message ----- From: "N0body H0me" <n0body.h0me at inbox.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Commodore C65 prototype sells for 17,827 Euros! Stamp collecting imploded and kids don't collect anymore, the only stuff worth anything is the ultra rare items the old collectors lusted after.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, TeoZ wrote: A working C65 IS "ultra rare" and realistically, the only people with the kind of cash that it commanded ARE "old collectors". :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Commodore C65 prototype sells for 17,827 Euros! Brand , model, story, and availability have quite a bit to do with it. Even with that prices vary over time as brand awareness changes in popularity. I think we have all seen C65's and Apple I's change hands over the years with higher and higher prices while older rarities have gone nowhere.

At 5:18 PM -0700 4/15/13, geneb wrote: Just think, about 16 years ago a couple hundred dollars would have bought one... I wish I'd bought one or more, but considered them too unfinished. :-( Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Photographer | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | My flickr Photostream | | http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ | | My Photography Website | | http://www.zanesphotography.com |

On 04/15/2013 01:44 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: I expect it's worse for us because to the majority computers are seen as complex beasts, and therefore it's hard to fix them when they do go wrong - and that's assuming that the failed part isn't pure unobtanium (or that pulls from working systems don't exist). Is there such a thing as an electronics restorer, in the same way that there are people who restore furniture, or rebuild vintage car engines etc.? (and who, in their line of work, can possibly make a needed part if one doesn't exist) cheers Jules

On 04/15/2013 07:09 PM, William Donzelli wrote: It's a labor of love if it's done at all. I do it for computer stuff, as do many (most?) of us. My friend Larry over in Ohio makes a reasonable living repairing guitar amps and effects pedals, but as you observed...there is no steak involved. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

I suspect this may be one reason I dislike a lot of modern stuff. I grew up undertansing everything I worked with (or at least tryign to), nut modern stuff is so complicated that I don;t think anyone underttads it all. Well, yes... I do it all the time... Problem is that nobody will pay be for doing it (we will deal wit hthe legalities later...) The fact is that doing a rull restoration fo a reasonably complex vintage computer takes a long time -- perhaps 50-100 hours. More if tyhe docuemtnation does not exist. And at a reasonable hourly rate, that suddenly makes some of those 'ridiculously high E-bay prixcs' for old machiens look like pocket change... -tony

On 4/15/2013 1:44 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: I understand the general sentiment, but I think the C65 is a poor example of the concern. Unlike other machines, the C65 was never completed, and has 0 software base. It's sole value in the marketplace is as a prototype. Those of us who own one can do little more with the unit that those without one. Yes, it makes getting parts for the unit harder, but it's not like one can relive the memories with a now-functioning C65, as no one had memories with the unit in the first place. As such, I think folks should lament the price increases of truly great machines and rare but production systems, not the C65 and unfinished prototypes like it. I will concede that rising prices of machines like the C65 further inflate the prices of more legitimate systems like the Apple I and Lisa. Of course, in the interest of full disclosure, I own 2 functioning C65 units, and so I am biased. I have as yet not considered selling either unit, but with the rising prices of the auctions and the limited utility of owning such a unit, much less 2 of them, cause me to question whether it's better to hold onto them well beyond when the C65 "bubble" bursts, or take advantage of some collector's interest to create funds for better purposes. I suspect 1 of the owned units would create a high water price point for the C65, since I own the rare C65 expansion memory card, of which I suspect there are but a handful ever made, and I own a special diagnostic card for C65 development, of which only 1 exists. The former is of marginal utility as it works and would allow larger programs for the C65, and the latter is of no utility, as it was designed for diagnosis of issues with the machine itself during development. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

On 4/15/2013 8:58 PM, John Foust wrote: I did not directly receive mine from him, but it's possible this is his. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com