29 Dec
2002
29 Dec
'02
12:37 p.m.
While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44
components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio
and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with
hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just
as well? I was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement
floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and
then add horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s
apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type
equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and
functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried
this?
Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting non-rack-mount
equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs
onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable
shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways
to save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as
systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging,
piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get
to at times.
--
Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
29 Dec
29 Dec
12:53 p.m.
While thinking about racks to use for mounting my
PDP-11/44
components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio
and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with
hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just
as well?
This is an old ham trick. In theory, it works, but it really is not very
practical, with the work involved. It is much easier to just find a rack,
or just find the rack rails and attach them to the wood.
Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting
non-rack-mount
equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs
onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable
shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.?
Shelves are easy to make. At just about every hamfest, there is usually
some hunk of junk rackmount dofunny sitting in the dumpster at the end of
the show (act fast, as the vultures are out). If you examine how many are
made, you can generally find a pair of metal brackets that will do the
job. These brackets, somewhat triangular and always in pairs, were a very
common way to attach off-the-shelf chassis to rack panels. If you can't
bolt these directly to the thing you want to mount, try cutting a square
of plywood with a few screws, and perhaps some aluminum angle stock.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
2:08 p.m.
I'm very happy with the one I made out of oak plywood.
Expensive, but looks nice in the house. My future geek
equipment will be made this way.
But, "real" rack assemblies have fans, overtemp
alarms/shutoffs, etc, and I would hate to leave stuff
on unattended without these items.
--- William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> wrote:
__________________________________________________
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While thinking
about racks to use for mounting my
PDP-11/44
components, as well as other equipment from test
equipment to audio
and synth equipment, something just occured to
me:
why bother with
hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag
bolts may suffice just
as well?
This is an old ham trick. In theory, it works, but
it really is not very
practical, with the work involved. It is much easier
to just find a rack,
or just find the rack rails and attach them to the
wood.
Lastly, has anyone on this list tried
retrofitting
non-rack-mount
equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB
Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs
onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as
making rack-mountable
shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.?
Shelves are easy to make. At just about every
hamfest, there is usually
some hunk of junk rackmount dofunny sitting in the
dumpster at the end of
the show (act fast, as the vultures are out). If you
examine how many are
made, you can generally find a pair of metal
brackets that will do the
job. These brackets, somewhat triangular and always
in pairs, were a very
common way to attach off-the-shelf chassis to rack
panels. If you can't
bolt these directly to the thing you want to mount,
try cutting a square
of plywood with a few screws, and perhaps some
aluminum angle stock.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org 
30 Dec
30 Dec
4:05 a.m.
Loboyko Steve wrote:
I'm very happy with the one I made out of oak
plywood.
Expensive, but looks nice in the house. My future geek
equipment will be made this way.
But, "real" rack assemblies have fans, overtemp
alarms/shutoffs, etc, and I would hate to leave stuff
on unattended without these items.
Lets not forget wheels.
Ben.
4:41 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
Loboyko Steve wrote:
Amen, brother! Wheels rule.
Doc
I'm very happy with the one I made out of oak
plywood.
Expensive, but looks nice in the house. My future geek
equipment will be made this way.
But, "real" rack assemblies have fans, overtemp
alarms/shutoffs, etc, and I would hate to leave stuff
on unattended without these items.
Lets not forget wheels.
Ben.
29 Dec
29 Dec
1:21 p.m.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote:
Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting
non-rack-mount
equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs
onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable
shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways
to save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as
systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging,
piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get
to at times.
Well, it sounds workable, but it's honestly probably more expensive
than buying a used rack. My boss just bought one, a 72"x19" with 2 PDU
bars, front and rear doors, and 8 shelves, for $85.
One of the VERY nice features of a fully enclosed rack, wood or steel,
is the noise reduction. We had 4 PCs, a Cisco router, a 43P RS/6000,
and my Ultra1 going in there. Now everything but the Cisco is in the
rack, and the noise level has been cut by at least half. We
rubber-glued thin, dense foam inside the side panels and doors (being
careful not to restrict airflow).
Machine room/office is much neater, much cooler, since we stuck the
rack under the return-air duct, and *much* quieter.
Doc
9:33 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <doc(a)mdrconsult.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: DIY Equipment Racks
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote:
Well, it sounds workable, but it's honestly probably more expensive
than buying a used rack. My boss just bought one, a 72"x19" with 2 PDU
bars, front and rear doors, and 8 shelves, for $85.
One of the VERY nice features of a fully enclosed rack, wood or steel,
is the noise reduction. We had 4 PCs, a Cisco router, a 43P RS/6000,
and my Ultra1 going in there. Now everything but the Cisco is in the
rack, and the noise level has been cut by at least half. We
rubber-glued thin, dense foam inside the side panels and doors (being
careful not to restrict airflow).
You can find them cheaper than that even. I picked up an old statmux
locally for $20. Had to strip the guts out, but it had something like 25
6502s running it, along with some oddball EPROMs and other interesting
chips. I passed them along to someone who could put them to use, and now I
have a nice 72" inclosed rack with front & back doors, removable sides, and
two fans in the top, one of which doesn't spin up. A **LOT** cheaper than a
new rack!
Machine room/office is much neater, much cooler, since we stuck the
rack under the return-air duct, and *much* quieter.
Alas, the VAX 6320 and DEC 3000 800 won't fit in the rack, so the basement
is never going to be truely quiet without a power loss. ;)
Doc
Bob
30 Dec
30 Dec
5:33 a.m.
--- "Robert F. Schaefer" <rschaefe(a)gcfn.org> wrote:
I picked up an old statmux locally for $20. Had to
strip
the guts out... I passed them along to someone who could put
them to use...
Thanks again, Bob! Some of those parts are going right to the SBC-6120.
...and now I have a nice 72" inclosed rack with
front & back doors,
removable sides, and two fans in the top...
Yep. Sweet rack.
I have a quantity of rackage, about 90% DEC... over a dozen 72" racks,
half-a-dozen 60" racks full of SI disk and tape, at least half-a-dozen
42" racks full of PDP-11s and RL02s, and 4 or 5 knee-high racks with
formica tops (PDP-11/03 + RX01).
I have to echo the sentiments of those recommending real racks. I don't
even like odd-ball racks because it's too hard to fit DEC rails into
them (I have this one that came with an -8/L + BM08 + PC04 that's a real
pain, but it doesn't have DEC rails for anything but the PC04 which
is front-mount only).
If you intend to rack a DEC CPU and/or DEC disks, I have to recommend
DEC racks. They use the round unthreaded holes and "clip nuts" that
are, ISTR, 10-24 thread. Rails for the RA81/RA82 drives, for example,
use nut plates rather than clip nuts, which is all the more reason not
to use prethreaded racks (which are, OTOH, *great* for modern front-mount
1U hardware).
Depends on what you intend to rack - PC stuff/routers/switches can go
in just about anything. DEC stuff fits best in DEC racks.
-ethan
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29 Dec
29 Dec
1:31 p.m.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote:
While thinking about racks to use for mounting my
PDP-11/44
components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio
and synth equipment,
[...]
equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and
functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried
this?
Interestingly enough, the "Corras" rolling end table that Ikea sells has
just the right dimensions to make a very serviceable makeshift equipment
rack. It sells for $35, includes one adjustable shelf, and offers
approximately 14U (without the shelf).
A month or so ago I experimented with screwing two units together, one on
top of the other. It has worked out well so far, with the exception of the
included casters not being up to the job. I replaced them with a sturdier
set and everything's been good to date.
I don't know if they're up to 11/44 standards, but the three I have are
working well for me, holding some relatively large equipment... I've got a
Proliant 5000 and an RS/6000 B50 in the bottom of the double unit I built,
with the Compaq storage array for the Proliant in the upper unit, along
with a Cisco Catalyst 1800, a Catalyst 1400, and an STP TR MAU. That's a
good 350 to 400 pounds of equipment.
ok
r.
2:49 p.m.
While thinking about racks to use for mounting my
PDP-11/44
components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio
and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with
hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just
as well? I was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement
floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and
then add horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s
apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type
equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and
functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried
this?
Well, I'm sitting here typing this with a wooden rack on either side of the
desk. They're prefab "shelving units" that you put together. Of equipment
that's normally rack mounted I've currenly got a PDP-8/m in one and a
storageworks shelf in the other. Up until a few days ago, I also had a
High-Speed papertape reader in the one, so far that's the only rackmount
that I've tried that's been a tight fit. I've been buying them at "Fred
Meyer's", they're basically 4 boards that are about 5'3" high, with
shelves
that are about 32"x18". I've found it best to buy 3 sets at a time to have
enough shelves for making up two. I also use them in my one storage unit,
and have a pair that are 3 sections long, and another that is 2 sections
long.
Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting
non-rack-mount
equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs
onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable
shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways
to save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as
systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging,
piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get
to at times.
I'd recommend building shelves for your rack rather than trying to make a
non-rack mounted system a rack mount. That's what I do, and it's also what
we do at work. For example Sun Pizza boxes fit great on the shelf of a 19"
rack.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
4:01 p.m.
Actually, in the case of the 11/44 (and other BA-type cabinets) it is
necessary to mount the rack slides, not the box itself, because you have
to get into it to make changes, fix stuff, impress visitors, etc. And the
rack slides *must* be mounted front and rear, because a loaded 11/44 (or
/34a) weighs somewhat more than 100 lb. The slide flanges are not capable
of holding the load if not suppported at the back of the rack as well.
The only other way would be to shelf-mount the unit, or on wide parallel
flanges underneath (I have done this, using 2" aluminum angles mounted
horizontally to the rack uprights) but still the problem remains of
access... in the case of the /44 and /34a, the weight of the power supply
is toward the back of the box, so that helps out a bit.
All of my current music studio gear is mounted on 2x4s with drywall
screws thru the flanges - works fine so far, though it's a bit 'rustic'.
I just didn't have the money or the time to find suitable racks, so off
to Mountain Builders I went. But nothing I have comes even close to the
loads of as 11/44.... not to mention an RL02, which must be slid out from
the rack to change packs. Ths would be *ugly* in the non-rack-slide
scenario, IMHO.
Cheers
John
7:41 p.m.
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, R. D. Davis wrote:
While thinking about racks to use for mounting my
PDP-11/44 components,
as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio and synth
equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with hunting down
steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just as well? I
was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement floor up to
the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and then add
horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s apart
properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type equipment
purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and functional
solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried this?
That sounds kinda like a relay rack to me :)
If you are handy with woodworking, it isn't too hard to create your own
studio racks for your audio equipment. What you are looking for are the
metal rails that run vertically that the equipment bolts to. Several
companies make and sell these. One place that comes immediately to mind
is: [http://www.hometech.com/rack/rack.html]. That page shows rails
available from 3U up to 27U. If you wanted an angled overhead type rack
for certain equipment, these rails would also work very well.
Lastly, has anyone on this list tried retrofitting
non-rack-mount
equipment into racks? E.g., welding (or "JB Weld"ing) rack-mount tabs
onto systems like PCs and Kaypros, as well as making rack-mountable
shelves to hold the Macintoshes, etc.? Just trying to think of ways to
save space. Stacking system on top of system, helter skelter, as
systems are added, tends to result in rather annoying, space hogging,
piles of systems after a while, making some systems difficult to get to
at times.
I'd just recommend rack-mount shelves. JB Weld (basically a high temp
epoxy) wouldn't likely hold the weight of most gear, though it might be
possible to bolt rack slides to some things.
-Toth
11:23 p.m.
"R. D. Davis" wrote:
While thinking about racks to use for mounting my PDP-11/44
components, as well as other equipment from test equipment to audio
and synth equipment, something just occured to me: why bother with
hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag bolts may suffice just
as well? I was thinking that one can just run 2x4s from the basement
floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them to the rafters, and
then add horizontal supports at the bottom to space the vertical 2x4s
apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess the museum-type
equipment purists won't like the idea, but it would be a cheap and
functional solution for many of us. :-) Has anyone else here tried
this?
It would work but very tacky, and not readily changeable without really
tearing up the lumber.
I do know that L iron is available with tapped/untapped RETMA/IEC holes
in standard spacing. I'd go that route.
Hamfests might be a source for racks, but less and less of that is
appearing anymore due to the fact most hams carry their radios on the
hip rather than rack-mounting them. Last rack cabinet I bought was $2
(ex-school PA system). I did see a nice NEW extruded aluminum open
channel 7' rack for $100 at a hamfest. Most likely you'll see smaller
cabinets, but you never know unless you go to as many as possible.
You might check with local radio/television stations and see if they
have some older racks around. Many of those are too shallow for the new
equipment, or they are surplus from an old location.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
30 Dec
30 Dec
5:46 a.m.
RD, I think we will be having a surplus wide DEC rack this coming month.
It could be yours for the taking.
1 Jan
1 Jan
3:22 p.m.
FWIW:
I've got two ex-AS/400 racks with heavy casters
without power rectifiers or rear doors that I'd like
to get some bucks for. I've got the push-in filler
panels for them. They're in decent shape, had been
used as PC server racks. One has a PC keyboard/mouse
rackmount tray and I think there's a set of rails in
one too. They're deep racks with 19 inch standard
rails that I think are threaded.
I'd like to get $100 for each ex-AS/400 rack, and
would happily deliver them to anyone within 150 miles
of Roanoke VA for that price. These things are VERY
heavy, I'd estimate 150 pounds each?
I've also got two AS/400 racks with expansion racks
for a 9406-type AS/400, and power rectifiers etc.
These are complete with doors front and rear and have
some filler panels too.
I've got some Compaq rail kits, a Proliant shelf, and
an old short HP equipment rack that I think isn't 19
inch standard size.
If anyone's interested contact me off list at
msspcva(a)yahoo.com. I can send you pictures of the
stuff too.
-- Frank
--- Gary Hildebrand <ghldbrd(a)ccp.com> wrote:
"R. D. Davis" wrote:
=====
= M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.=
Clayton Frank Helvey, President
Montvale Software Services, P. C.
P.O. Box 840
Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840
Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva(a)yahoo.com
============================================================
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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While thinking about racks to use for mounting my
PDP-11/44
components, as well as other equipment from test
equipment to audio
and synth equipment, something just occured to
me:
why bother with
hunting down steel racks when some 2x4s and lag
bolts may suffice just
as well? I was thinking that one can just run
2x4s from the basement
floor up to the heavy wooden rafters, attach them
to the rafters, and
then add horizontal supports at the bottom to
space the vertical 2x4s
apart properly. Any thoughts on this? I guess
the museum-type
equipment purists won't like the idea, but it
would be a cheap and
functional solution for many of us. :-) Has
anyone
else here tried
this?
It would work but very tacky, and not readily
changeable without really
tearing up the lumber.
I do know that L iron is available with
tapped/untapped RETMA/IEC holes
in standard spacing. I'd go that route.
Hamfests might be a source for racks, but less and
less of that is
appearing anymore due to the fact most hams carry
their radios on the
hip rather than rack-mounting them. Last rack
cabinet I bought was $2
(ex-school PA system). I did see a nice NEW
extruded aluminum open
channel 7' rack for $100 at a hamfest. Most likely
you'll see smaller
cabinets, but you never know unless you go to as
many as possible.
You might check with local radio/television stations
and see if they
have some older racks around. Many of those are too
shallow for the new
equipment, or they are surplus from an old location.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
3:31 p.m.
I'd like to get $100 for each ex-AS/400 rack, and
would happily deliver them to anyone within 150 miles
of Roanoke VA for that price. These things are VERY
heavy, I'd estimate 150 pounds each?
I think you will find them to be a whole bunch heavier than 150 pounds!
Other than the rather dumb size of these IBM racks (they are too wide for
24 by 24 inch floor tiles), these things are excellent. Very quiet with
all that internal foam padding...
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
3:40 p.m.
William:
You're probably right about the weight, but I've not
tried to weigh one empty. The ones that are located
where I could weigh them have all of the power
rectifiers and other stuff in them. These do have
most of the foam on the sides, some of it was removed
to make room for PC odds and ends it looks like.
I've been thinking about moving one into the office to
replace this short radio base station rack (which is
unfortunately not 19 inch standard), but have so far
resisted.
Another note - if you're in North Carolina in
Raliegh/RTP or from there to Wilmington NC, I can
deliver this stuff to you - I travel that way
relatively often.
-- Frank
--- William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> wrote:
=====
= M O N T V A L E S O F T W A R E S E R V I C E S P. C.=
Clayton Frank Helvey, President
Montvale Software Services, P. C.
P.O. Box 840
Blue Ridge, VA 24064-0840
Phone: 540.947.5364 Email: msspcva(a)yahoo.com
============================================================
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
I'd like
to get $100 for each ex-AS/400 rack, and
would happily deliver them to anyone within 150
miles
of Roanoke VA for that price. These things are
VERY
heavy, I'd estimate 150 pounds each?
I think you will find them to be a whole bunch
heavier than 150 pounds!
Other than the rather dumb size of these IBM racks
(they are too wide for
24 by 24 inch floor tiles), these things are
excellent. Very quiet with
all that internal foam padding...
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
3 Jan
3 Jan
2:01 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)rddavis.org>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:06 PM
Subject: DIY Equipment Racks
While thinking about racks to use for mounting my
PDP-11/44
Dunno if you are still looking for a rack, but this one's cheap (so far):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20316&item=2…
no relation to seller...
Bob
7976
days inactive
7981
days old
17 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
at258＠osfn.org -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jpl15＠panix.com -
msspcva＠yahoo.com -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
red＠bears.org -
rschaefe＠gcfn.org -
sloboyko＠yahoo.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net