10 Apr
2019
10 Apr
'19
9:24 a.m.
I? remember? in '79? ?a? KSR? Diablo? was? ?the? dream? KSR? printing? terminal? and?
?cost? like? ?3? grand? Oh? how? we? used? to? dream of having one of these? back then!
We? do have? one in the museum's? collection...? although? ?have not attempted to
power up? to use.
Ed#
In a message dated 4/10/2019 8:40:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote:
I've given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the
keyboard were known as).? I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of
sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated.
Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants
to pay shipping.? I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete
system with it.? Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away.
--Chuck
I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel
typewriter.
Well, there are Qume and Diablo.? Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of
them carry that label.
Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. 
10 Apr
10 Apr
9:54 a.m.
To all,
The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done
this.? We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter
into a computer terminal.? The conversion consists of a custom PCB with
an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in
the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter
motherboard, with custom firmware.
The initial work was to create a robust substitute for the IBM 1620's
console typewriter.? However, software changes are being completed this
month to extend it into a general-purpose, easily-adapted, ASCII
teleprinter.
We demoed the device as part of our VCF West display last August at
which we took 1st Place in Best of Show and 2nd Place in
Restorations/Replicas.
We will be making all of our design files, software, and documentation
available free to the classic computer community.
To whet your appetite, here's the step-by-step, illustrated guide for
the physical conversion of the typewriter:
https://github.com/IBM-1620/Junior/raw/master/docs/wheelwriter-adaptation-i…
We'll be posting a formal announcement of this device within a few months.
This work has been done by Joe Fredrick, Steve Casner, and myself.
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 9:24 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
I? remember? in '79? ?a? KSR? Diablo? was? ?the?
dream? KSR? printing? terminal? and? ?cost? like? ?3? grand? Oh? how? we? used? to? dream
of having one of these? back then!
We? do have? one in the museum's? collection...? although? ?have not attempted to
power up? to use.
Ed#
In a message dated 4/10/2019 8:40:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk
wrote:
I've
given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the
keyboard were known as).? I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of
sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated.
Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants
to pay shipping.? I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete
system with it.? Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away.
--Chuck
I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel
typewriter.
Well, there are Qume and Diablo.? Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of
them carry that label.
Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface.
10:35 a.m.
To all,
The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done
this.? We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter
into a computer terminal.? The conversion consists of a custom PCB with
an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in
the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter
motherboard, with custom firmware.
The initial work was to create a robust substitute for the IBM 1620's
console typewriter.? However, software changes are being completed this
month to extend it into a general-purpose, easily-adapted, ASCII
teleprinter.
We demoed the device as part of our VCF West display last August at
which we took 1st Place in Best of Show and 2nd Place in
Restorations/Replicas.
We will be making all of our design files, software, and documentation
available free to the classic computer community.
To whet your appetite, here's the step-by-step, illustrated guide for
the physical conversion of the typewriter:
https://github.com/IBM-1620/Junior/raw/master/docs/wheelwriter-adaptation-i…
We'll be posting a formal announcement of this device within a few months.
This work has been done by Joe Fredrick, Steve Casner, and myself.
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 9:24 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
I? remember? in '79? ?a? KSR? Diablo? was ?the?
dream? KSR? printing?
terminal? and? ?cost? like? ?3 grand? Oh? how? we? used? to? dream of
having one of these? back then!
We? do have? one in the museum's? collection...? although? ?have not
attempted to power up? to use.
Ed#
In a message dated 4/10/2019 8:40:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
cctalk at classiccmp.org writes:
On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk
wrote:
I've
given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the
keyboard were known as).? I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of
sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated.
Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants
to pay shipping.? I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete
system with it.? Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away.
--Chuck
I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel
typewriter.
Well, there are Qume and Diablo.? Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of
them carry that label.
Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. 
10:56 a.m.
On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech wrote:
To all,
The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done
this.? We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter
into a computer terminal.? The conversion consists of a custom PCB with
an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in
the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter
motherboard, with custom firmware.
Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console
typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated
enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was
going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience.
What did you do about the 1620-specific keys? I don't think that record
mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter...
--Chuck
11:14 a.m.
Chuck,
True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen).? The 1620 Model 2
used a Selectric (2nd gen).? We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric
typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?).? [I know
it's a stretch.]
The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low
maintenance device.? The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education
Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed
difficult & expensive maintenance.
Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console
Typewriter:
And here is the printed output:
Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special
characters.?? :-)
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 10:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote:
On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech wrote:
To all,
The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done
this.? We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter
into a computer terminal.? The conversion consists of a custom PCB with
an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in
the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter
motherboard, with custom firmware.
Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console
typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated
enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was
going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience.
What did you do about the 1620-specific keys? I don't think that record
mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter...
--Chuck
11:53 a.m.
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable,
robust, very low maintenance
device.? The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education Department and
needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed difficult & expensive
maintenance.
So, . . .
not fully replicating the original real experience. :-)
11:56 a.m.
Dave,
I'd love to see the keyboard and printed output; unfortunately, the
listserv strips out anything but test. Got a link?
--Chuck
On 4/10/19 11:14 AM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
Chuck,
True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen).? The 1620 Model 2
used a Selectric (2nd gen).? We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric
typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?).? [I know
it's a stretch.]
The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low
maintenance device.? The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education
Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed
difficult & expensive maintenance.
Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console
Typewriter:
And here is the printed output:
Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special
characters.?? :-)
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 10:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote:
--
--Chuck
Sent from my digital computer
On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech
wrote:
To all,
The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done
this.? We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter
into a computer terminal.? The conversion consists of a custom PCB with
an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in
the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter
motherboard, with custom firmware.
Aw, that's too bad!? The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console
typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated
enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was
going to fly to pieces at any time.? It was all part of the experience.
What did you do about the 1620-specific keys?? I don't think that record
mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter...
--Chuck
10:10 p.m.
Sorry about the missing photos.
Here's the keyboard:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyxdpwi2mzz4kek/custom-keyboard.jpg?dl=0
Here's the printed output:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fb7lzrlzygnnvhl/Console_Typewriter_Output.png?dl=0
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 11:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Dave,
I'd love to see the keyboard and printed output; unfortunately, the
listserv strips out anything but test. Got a link?
--Chuck
On 4/10/19 11:14 AM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
Chuck,
True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen).? The 1620 Model 2
used a Selectric (2nd gen).? We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric
typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?).? [I know
it's a stretch.]
The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low
maintenance device.? The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education
Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed
difficult & expensive maintenance.
Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console
Typewriter:
And here is the printed output:
Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special
characters.?? :-)
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 10:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote:
> On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech wrote:
>> To all,
>>
>> The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done
>> this.? We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter
>> into a computer terminal.? The conversion consists of a custom PCB with
>> an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in
>> the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter
>> motherboard, with custom firmware.
> Aw, that's too bad!? The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console
> typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated
> enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was
> going to fly to pieces at any time.? It was all part of the experience.
>
> What did you do about the 1620-specific keys?? I don't think that record
> mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter...
>
> --Chuck
>
>
>
10:49 p.m.
Thanks, Dave.
Was the group mark on the Model 2 typewriter keyboard? I don't recall
it from the CADET. It was associated with the 1311 disk option anyway.
How does one print a flagged numeric blank? (the "dump numeric"
instruction prints it)?
Thanks,
Chuck
On 4/10/19 10:10 PM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
Sorry about the missing photos.
Here's the keyboard:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyxdpwi2mzz4kek/custom-keyboard.jpg?dl=0
Here's the printed output:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fb7lzrlzygnnvhl/Console_Typewriter_Output.png?dl=0
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 11:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Dave,
I'd love to see the keyboard and printed output; unfortunately, the
listserv strips out anything but test.?? Got a link?
--Chuck
On 4/10/19 11:14 AM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen).? The 1620 Model 2
> used a Selectric (2nd gen).? We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric
> typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?).? [I know
> it's a stretch.]
>
> The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low
> maintenance device.? The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education
> Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed
> difficult & expensive maintenance.
>
> Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console
> Typewriter:
>
> And here is the printed output:
> Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special
> characters.?? :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
12 Apr
12 Apr
10 p.m.
Chuck,
The Group Mark key was on later IBM 1620 Model 1 typewriters as well as
the Model 2 Selectrics.
See:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2b1449zr6uqh6p/IBM_1620_Console_Typewriter.png?d…
The flagged numeric blank was accidentally left out of the print sample
I made.
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 10:49 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Thanks, Dave.
Was the group mark on the Model 2 typewriter keyboard? I don't recall
it from the CADET. It was associated with the 1311 disk option anyway.
How does one print a flagged numeric blank? (the "dump numeric"
instruction prints it)?
Thanks,
Chuck
On 4/10/19 10:10 PM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
Sorry about the missing photos.
Here's the keyboard:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyxdpwi2mzz4kek/custom-keyboard.jpg?dl=0
Here's the printed output:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fb7lzrlzygnnvhl/Console_Typewriter_Output.png?dl=0
Thanks,
Dave
On 4/10/2019 11:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I'd love to see the keyboard and printed output; unfortunately, the
> listserv strips out anything but test.?? Got a link?
>
> --Chuck
>
>
> On 4/10/19 11:14 AM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
>> Chuck,
>>
>> True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen).? The 1620 Model 2
>> used a Selectric (2nd gen).? We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric
>> typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?).? [I know
>> it's a stretch.]
>>
>> The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low
>> maintenance device.? The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education
>> Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed
>> difficult & expensive maintenance.
>>
>> Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console
>> Typewriter:
>>
>> And here is the printed output:
>> Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special
>> characters.?? :-)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>>
11:47 p.m.
On 4/12/19 10:00 PM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote:
Chuck,
The Group Mark key was on later IBM 1620 Model 1 typewriters as well as
the Model 2 Selectrics.
See:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2b1449zr6uqh6p/IBM_1620_Console_Typewriter.png?d…
The flagged numeric blank was accidentally left out of the print sample
I made.
Thanks,
Dave
Thanks for that--I guess the CADETs that I fooled with way back when
didn't have the group mark on the typewriter keyboard. Didn't matter
much, as I mostly used cards, which allowed for some additional bit
patterns (e.g. 821 for a record mark).
I could see Dijstra's gripes with the machine--characters that you can
only move, not test for or do arithmetic on. Characters that you could
read, but not write. One thing that I never tried was to insert
numeric blanks, record marks and group marks into the addition table and
see what happened.
Did you ever try that? Would you simply get an error stop if one of the
non-numerics showed up in an addition?
Egad, I haven't touched one of the things in something like 50 years and
yet I can remember the numeric opcodes for much of it.
It's amazing that the machines were as popular as they were.
Ah, memories...
--Chuck
10 Apr
10 Apr
11:29 a.m.
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote:
Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET)
1620 had a console
typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated
enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was
going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience.
Immaculately maintained equipment, such as at the CHM, also doesn't have
the burnt oil smell that used to be associated with real world EAM.
11:38 a.m.
On 4/10/19 11:29 AM, Fred Cisin via cctech wrote:
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote:
Or the grime--such as replacing a shredded ribbon on a line printer.
Or roaches and mice under the raised floor...
--Chuck
Aw, that's too bad!? The original Model I
(CADET) 1620 had a console
typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated
enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was
going to fly to pieces at any time.? It was all part of the experience.
Immaculately maintained equipment, such as at the CHM, also doesn't have
the burnt oil smell that used to be associated with real world EAM.
9:56 a.m.
I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel
typewriter.
Well, there are Qume and Diablo.? Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some
of
them carry that label.
Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. I? remember? in '79? ?a? KSR? Diablo? was? ?the?
dream? KSR? printing? terminal? and? ?cost? like? ?3? grand? Oh? how? we? used? to? dream
of having one of these? back then!
We? do have? one in the museum's? collection...? although? ?have not attempted to
power up? to use.
My first computer printer was a DTC-300. Diablo HyType 1 KSR.
Non-detachable stand.
Given to me by a friend who I gave a car to.
I created the manuscript for my Honda book on it.
TRS80 model 1 with "Electric Pencil"
I printed out drafts as 80 columns on 15" paper. Centered and double
spaced for the editor, flush left for the illustator, who loved having
a big chunk of space alongside to doodle in. Used to be able to get wide
paper with both edge tear-offs, AND a tear-off to reduce to 8.5x11.
One time, I got FOUR of them at John Craig's Computer Swap America.
Bringing them home in a Honda Civic was "interesting". Always have a
couple of skeins of rope in the trunk.
Getting rid of them when I closed my office in 2001 was "interesting".
But, a really great guy rescued me, and took truckloads of computer stuff
that nobody else would. Thank you, Sellam!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2040
days inactive
2043
days old
13 comments
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