20 Mar
2007
20 Mar
'07
1:43 p.m.
I had written....
When you start paying for symmetric Gbps (note lower
case b) that is when
you are more realistically paying for what you are using. And it ain't
$6/mo. It is thousands of dollars per month.
Uggg... I apologize for my typo. For symmetric Mbps (note M, not G, and
lower case b), THAT is what is thousands per month.
Jay
20 Mar
20 Mar
2:12 p.m.
Jay West wrote:
Uggg... I apologize for my typo. For symmetric Mbps
(note M, not G, and
lower case b), THAT is what is thousands per month.
Barely. My company has an entire rack with XO and we pay $900 a month
for 10mbit average, 100mbit max/burst 5%.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
2:31 p.m.
I had written...
> Uggg... I apologize for my typo. For symmetric
Mbps (note M, not G, and
> lower case b), THAT is what is thousands per month.
To which Jim replied...
Barely. My company has an entire rack with XO and we
pay $900 a month for
10mbit average, 100mbit max/burst 5%.
You are "barely" right, because you are only "barely" in the same
league as
the bandwidth I was referring to. When you can buy 20mbps sustained for
$900, then call me would you please? When you say "10mbit average" you're
comparing apples to oranges.
More to the point, there is "good" bandwidth and "poor" bandwidth. In
my
world, XO is considered bottom of the tier as to quality bandwidth. They are
cheaper than most and with very good reason.
This topic is VERY rapidly moving off-topic.
Jay
2:45 p.m.
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Jay West wrote:
I had written...
I apologise for adding a quick two cents, but I also have a bit of
experience here (I Sys Admin one of the larger VoIP wholesalers in the US)
and we use Internap for our bandwidth - which I've *never* had a complaint
from, and they're $100/mbps at 95th percentile. Probably not the kind of
league you're looking for, of course - but more data.
JP
> Uggg... I apologize for my typo. For
symmetric Mbps (note M, not G, and
> lower case b), THAT is what is thousands per month.
To which Jim replied...
Barely. My company has an entire rack with XO
and we pay $900 a month for
10mbit average, 100mbit max/burst 5%.
You are "barely" right, because you are only "barely" in the same
league as
the bandwidth I was referring to. When you can buy 20mbps sustained for
$900, then call me would you please? When you say "10mbit average" you're
comparing apples to oranges.
More to the point, there is "good" bandwidth and "poor" bandwidth. In
my
world, XO is considered bottom of the tier as to quality bandwidth. They are
cheaper than most and with very good reason.
This topic is VERY rapidly moving off-topic.
3:07 p.m.
Jay West wrote:
You are "barely" right, because you are only
"barely" in the same league
as the bandwidth I was referring to. When you can buy 20mbps sustained
for $900, then call me would you please? When you say "10mbit average"
you're comparing apples to oranges.
It was intentional -- most people here might want to host something
themselves, not run an ISP.
More to the point, there is "good" bandwidth
and "poor" bandwidth. In my
world, XO is considered bottom of the tier as to quality bandwidth. They
are cheaper than most and with very good reason.
How do you determine "quality" bandwidth?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
3:16 p.m.
On Tuesday 20 March 2007 18:07, Jim Leonard wrote:
Jay West wrote:
Latency, bandwidth and outages (quantity and duration) to other
providers (and internally).
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
You are "barely" right, because you are
only "barely" in the same
league as the bandwidth I was referring to. When you can buy 20mbps
sustained for $900, then call me would you please? When you say
"10mbit average" you're comparing apples to oranges.
It was intentional -- most people here might want to host something
themselves, not run an ISP.
More to the point, there is "good"
bandwidth and "poor" bandwidth.
In my world, XO is considered bottom of the tier as to quality
bandwidth. They are cheaper than most and with very good reason.
How do you determine "quality" bandwidth?
3:54 p.m.
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Latency, bandwidth and outages (quantity and duration) to other
providers (and internally).
Yes, but I was more wondering what Jay's evidence of that was, since
we've had a grand total of one 4-hour outage in 2+ years (and that was a
billing problem) and we've never had latency issues.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
More to the point, there is "good" bandwidth
and "poor" bandwidth.
In my world, XO is considered bottom of the tier as to quality
bandwidth. They are cheaper than most and with very good reason.
How do you
determine "quality" bandwidth?
5:28 p.m.
Jim wrote....
Yes, but I was more wondering what Jay's evidence
of that was, since we've
had a grand total of one 4-hour outage in 2+ years (and that was a billing
problem) and we've never had latency issues.
In probability & statistics, a sample size of 1 is generally considered
insufficient. But since it's you....
You're probably right though, I don't know what I was thinking. I appreciate
your tip on XO and will revisit them next customer order as they have
obviously improved. Thanks!
Jay
7:05 p.m.
Jay West wrote:
Jim wrote....
It is a shame you don't qualify for banning yourself off of the list. I
supposed it never occurred to you that I was asking for a concrete
example because our contract is up and we might be looking for a
different provider.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
Yes, but I was more wondering what Jay's
evidence of that was, since
we've had a grand total of one 4-hour outage in 2+ years (and that was
a billing problem) and we've never had latency issues.
In probability & statistics, a sample size of 1 is generally considered
insufficient. But since it's you....
You're probably right though, I don't know what I was thinking. I
appreciate your tip on XO and will revisit them next customer order as
they have obviously improved. Thanks! 
4:26 p.m.
At 04:16 PM 3/20/2007, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
You forgot service. My ISP calls me within five minutes after
I bump the cord on the router. :-)
- John
How do you
determine "quality" bandwidth?
Latency, bandwidth and outages (quantity and duration) to other
providers (and internally). 
6:02 p.m.
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:26:12 -0600, John Foust wrote:
You forgot service. My ISP calls me within five
minutes after
I bump the cord on the router. :-)
- John
When I moved and pulled the plug on several T1 lines I had with XO, service called me 2
weeks later
wanting to know if SBC had contacted me about the presumed local loop problem they had an
open ticket
on. I told them I had pulled the plug and moved and I asked why it took 2 weeks to call,
they said they
figured if it was a real problem, I would have called them and if it was a local loop
problem,there was no
reason to kick a sleeping dog. It took XO's billing close to a year to stop billing me
and it took their legal
department to get my account zeroed and closed, close to a year after that. I always
figured they hired the
rejects from Worldcom..... .... well you get the idea.
Closer to being on topic...
I just returned from the ASU meeting and saw a nice demo of Zend PHP running on an AS400
using
Apache and DB2.
The presenter indicated that he thought there is a Mysql port for the AS400 but he had
worked with it.
He was using the native DB2 interface for his project.
Bob Bradlee
3:25 p.m.
Jim wrote...
It was intentional -- most people here might want to
host something
themselves, not run an ISP.
Nah, the discussion was for archives, and as you were
saying - "Don't put it
online unless you have the bandwidth and controls to do it right". So, I
assumed we weren't talking about someone with a lil 10mb pipe. And putting
on bandwidth controls by itself isn't good enough, because you'll run out of
steam for a serious archive. So, do it right or don't do it at all.
How do you determine "quality" bandwidth?
To those of us who work in that business, this is not a subjective question.
It's pretty cut and dry. Latency, hops, outages, routing issues, and
peering/connectivity.
Jay
3:55 p.m.
Jay West wrote:
Sorry, I worded that poorly. I was more asking what your level of
interaction was with XO that led you to that conclusion.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
Jim wrote...
My words, or yours?
It was intentional -- most people here might want
to host something
themselves, not run an ISP.
Nah, the discussion was for archives, and as you were
saying - "Don't
put it online unless you have the bandwidth and controls to do it
right". So, I assumed we weren't talking about someone with a lil 10mb
pipe. And putting on bandwidth controls by itself isn't good enough,
because you'll run out of steam for a serious archive. So, do it right
or don't do it at all. How do you
determine "quality" bandwidth?
To those of us who work in that business,
this is not a subjective
question. It's pretty cut and dry. Latency, hops, outages, routing
issues, and peering/connectivity.
5:26 p.m.
> More to the point, there is "good"
bandwidth and "poor" bandwidth. In my
> world, XO is considered bottom of the tier as to quality bandwidth. They
> are cheaper than most and with very good reason.
How do you determine "quality" bandwidth?
--
Not XO and Not Cogent for a start!
I have personal horror stories with both.
I agree they are tied for the lead, in the race to the bottom of this industry.
Bob
6488
days inactive
6489
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13 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
caveguy＠sbcglobal.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jplist2007＠kiwigeek.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
trixter＠oldskool.org