1 Feb
2001
1 Feb
'01
1:47 p.m.
Ok... Just when you've heard everything!
This guy could use some help, and while I've got a similar machine in the
collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much help.
Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand?
-jim
From: "King, Gary E"
<KingGE(a)usano.ksc.nasa.gov>
To: "'jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com'" <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
Subject: Naked Mini Broke
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:30:18 -0500
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
Dear Computer Garage,
I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a
Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure
why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku
band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? if
so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out.
Gary King
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline.
Current web site and email shown above
1 Feb
1 Feb
2:12 p.m.
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote:
This guy could use some help, and while I've got a
similar machine in the
collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much help.
Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand?
-jim
>From: "King, Gary E" <KingGE(a)usano.ksc.nasa.gov>
>To: "'jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com'" <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
>Subject: Naked Mini Broke
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:30:18 -0500
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
>X-Status:
>X-Keywords:
>
>Dear Computer Garage,
>
>I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a
>Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure
>why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku
>band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? if
>so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out.
Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed
computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
2 Feb
2 Feb
12:13 a.m.
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote:
I'm not familiar with this name. Is this some sort of dressed-up DEC
LSI-11/2 or is it something entirely different?
This guy could use some help, and while I've
got a similar machine in the
collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much
help.
>
> Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand?
>
> -jim
>
> >From: "King, Gary E" <KingGE(a)usano.ksc.nasa.gov>
> >Dear Computer Garage,
> >
> >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a
> >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up... Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using
such an old-assed
computer?
Because the shuttle was designed in the 1970s. Because aerospace engineers
are interested in consistent results, not endless life-safety tests. Because
if it ain't broke, don't fix it (except now, it's broke ;-)
Anyway, I may be able to help them.
Good for you. I wish I could.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
8:47 a.m.
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Computer Automation made a series of minis in the 70s. I have a couple
Alpha 16's and the Naked Mini, which was sold as a board in some cases.
Gary, the writer of the original message, is checking to see how much
compatibility there is between the Alpha 16 and the LSI. The LSI, if I
know my Computer Automation history, was the model produced after the
Alpha 16, in the late 70s.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
>
>I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a
> >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up...
I'm not familiar with this name. Is this some sort of dressed-up DEC
LSI-11/2 or is it something entirely different? 
11:21 a.m.
New subject: Umm. My ftp server (Wedding)
I've been running my AMD k6-3/400 at 450mhz for several months. Recently
it has been bombing frequently in really nasty ways. I've unbumped the
processor and all is well.
In that time I observed a fair amount of ftp activity coinciding with my
invitation to download our wedding video. I'm sorry that the logs show
many failures but the problem is resolved. The video subsystem is the part
that kept breaking which explains why the problem was difficult to track
down.....
During this time, the system would sustain high-output downloads nicely,
but slower, variable geometry downloads from folks with modems would tax
the system and cause a thermal overload. After testing I discovered that
any demanding task would reproduce this failure.
Please FTP to 24.15.74.214 and try again with our thanks and my personal
assurance that this problem is not likely to recur.
Regards,
Jeff
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey S. Worley
President
Complete Computer Services, Inc.
30 Greenwood Rd.
Asheville, NC 28803
828-277-5959
Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com
THETechnoid(a)home.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
2:43 a.m.
At 08:12 PM 2/1/01 -0800, Sellam with his usual tact wrote:
Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using such an old-assed
computer?
Because it works! Also some of that stuff has to be certified and the
certification is a long a costly process. I recently repaired some HP 41
calculators for Air France. I asked them why they were still using them and
they said that they had to be certified and that certifying new ones for a
two year, $20,000 process!
Joe
1 p.m.
Sellam Ismail skrev:
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote:
> >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in
Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a
> >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure
> >why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku
> >band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help?
> >if so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out.
Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still using
such an old-assed
computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them.
What's wrong with old-arsed computer anyway???
BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory,
apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory.
Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6.
When does a system administrator do the first backup?
The first day on the job after the system administrator who never did.
3 Feb
3 Feb
2:54 a.m.
I saw an article somewhere that much of NASA's stuff is hosted on
obsolete hardware. One of the problems that is being run into is the
danger of losing contact with deep space probes due to the lack of 1.)
hardware and 2.) experienced personnel to operate said hardware.
Specifically the article was addressing the likelihood that sometime
within the next couple of years JPL was expecting to lose contact with
Pioneer 10 due to said circumstances. It would be an almost impossible
task to rewrite and recertify all the code to run on a later system.
Hence, LSIs and early pdps are the systems that *must* be used.
Regarding the Orbiter; Remember that the shuttles are a 1970's design.
Certifying hardware for space is an incredibly tedious and expensive
process. I believe that exactly one of them has had their systems
updated to about 1995 specs a few years ago.
As a point of interest. The Apollo missions were flown on 64k of
memory. Mag core memory.
Search for 'Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design' and pay special
attention to the last one. "Space is a completely unforgiving
environment. If you screw up the
engineering, SOMEBODY DIES!"
Jim
Iggy Drougge wrote:
Sellam Ismail skrev:
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, James Willing wrote:
> >I'm a tech at United Space Alliance
in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a
> >Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure
> >why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku
> >band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help?
> >if so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out.
Holy crap. Why is an aerospace company still
using such an old-assed
computer? Anyway, I may be able to help them.
What's wrong with old-arsed computer anyway???
BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory,
apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory.
Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true? 
4:14 a.m.
Iggy Drougge wrote:
[snip]
What's wrong with old-arsed computer anyway???
Particularly in space-based applications, where flight qualification for
man-rated hardware is a pangalactic bitch.
BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually
used core memory,
apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory.
I'm sure that's a component -- even contemporary dynamic memory is less
rad hard than you'd probably like, but that's hardly the overriding reason.
My increasingly dim memory suggests that the processor are slightly modified
1750A machines. There was some indication that they were a derivative of the
processor using in the F-16, but I never was able to verify that. Being '70s
designs suggests that core would have been the only real option.
Could anyone confirm whether this still holds true?
I have no idea if the processors are being swapped out as part of the
flight deck modernization program. If so it can't be too radical a
departure from the existing architecture, since only one orbiter has
completed that modification cycle and the thought of having two
sets of tools for building the code loads for the orbiters staggers the
mind.
Oh yeah, that's the other thing. The code load for each orbiter is unique
to the mission, and there's no real executive function -- it's a bunch
of cooperating real-time tasks, such that if one pukes out it probably
takes out the rest. There's been at least one documented case where
the flight code load, during on-the-pad prelaunch simulation, dropped
the ball and the flight deck displays ended up with the shuttle's
answer to the BSOD -- an 'X' drawn through the flight deck displays.
If you think that's odd, you should check out the way that voting works...
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
6:10 a.m.
At 10:14 AM 2/3/01 -0800, Chris Kennedy wrote:
Iggy Drougge wrote:
...
Particularly in space-based applications, where flight qualification for
man-rated hardware is a pangalactic bitch.
I'm confident that I read about 8 years ago that IBM won & delivered on a
contract to redesign the flight computers using more modern
technology. Besides getting rid of the core, they added more banks of
memory so that it wasn't necessary to load different flight sequences from
tape while the mission was going on.
The redesigned the computer, bug for bug. There is no separate code base
or tools -- it is functionally identical, IIRC.
A quick search on Google turned up some stuff. I'm not sure this is the
best link, but it has some details about the system and the redesign:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-72/shutref/sts-av.html
-----
Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net
BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle
actually used core memory,
apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC memory.
...
Could anyone confirm whether this still holds
true?
I have no idea if the processors are being swapped out as part of the
flight deck modernization program. If so it can't be too radical a
departure from the existing architecture, since only one orbiter has
completed that modification cycle and the thought of having two
sets of tools for building the code loads for the orbiters staggers the
mind. 
13 Feb
13 Feb
12:55 p.m.
Iggy/Chris -
The STS (Space Shuttle) actually uses a IBM Federal Systems-build redundant
computer system called the Advanced System/4Pi Model AP-101 computer around
1978-1979. (And yup, there was a 3/Pi.) Not a 1750x clone, but was 32-bit
rad-hardened system, and expensive. Some of the work was done here in
Boulder Colorado and some IBM overview stuff can be found at
http://www.ibm.com/IBM/history/timeline.nsf/products3. Actually a pretty
good system, with I believe four riding in the original STS design using
voting as main redundancy check. Several other interesting IBM "gummint"
projects have taken place in Boulder, but...
Bruce
bkr(a)WildHareComputers.com
www.WildHareComputers.com
www.SimuLogics.com [Novas are forever...]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Kennedy" <chris(a)mainecoon.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Naked Mini Broke
Iggy Drougge wrote:
[snip]
memory.
What's wrong with old-arsed computer
anyway???
Particularly in space-based applications, where flight qualification for
man-rated hardware is a pangalactic bitch.
> BTW, I read somewhere that the space shuttle actually used core memory,
> apparently due to the bad resistance towards radiation in older IC
I'm sure that's a component -- even contemporary dynamic memory is less
rad hard than you'd probably like, but that's hardly the overriding
reason.
My increasingly dim memory suggests that the processor
are slightly
modified
1750A machines. There was some indication that they
were a derivative of
the
processor using in the F-16, but I never was able to
verify that. Being
'70s
designs suggests that core would have been the only
real option.
Could anyone confirm whether this still holds
true?
I have no idea if the processors are being swapped out as part of the
flight deck modernization program. If so it can't be too radical a
departure from the existing architecture, since only one orbiter has
completed that modification cycle and the thought of having two
sets of tools for building the code loads for the orbiters staggers the
mind.
Oh yeah, that's the other thing. The code load for each orbiter is unique
to the mission, and there's no real executive function -- it's a bunch
of cooperating real-time tasks, such that if one pukes out it probably
takes out the rest. There's been at least one documented case where
the flight code load, during on-the-pad prelaunch simulation, dropped
the ball and the flight deck displays ended up with the shuttle's
answer to the BSOD -- an 'X' drawn through the flight deck displays.
If you think that's odd, you should check out the way that voting works...
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 
15 Feb
15 Feb
4:36 a.m.
New subject: MVII DIAG CUST
Hi,
Anybody out here has the MicroVax II Diagnostics on RX50 ?
I somehow lost the first one of the 4 piece set :-(
Cheers & thanks,
emanuel
18 Feb
18 Feb
11:36 a.m.
New subject: MVII DIAG CUST
Have you located this diskette yet? I just opened my set but it
consists of six rx50s, *MVII DIAG MAINT RX50* -1987.
Let me know if you still need this. Vol 1 is labeled BL-GLLAJ-DN.
nick o
emanuel stiebler wrote:
Hi,
Anybody out here has the MicroVax II Diagnostics on RX50 ?
I somehow lost the first one of the 4 piece set :-(
Cheers & thanks,
emanuel
2 Feb
2 Feb
2:36 a.m.
I live near KSC and you'd be amazed at the assortment of old computers
that they're still using. I get frequent requests for help with HP 98xx
computers from them. Last year I picked up a loaded CBM 8032 at a KSC
auction that had just been taken out of service.
Joe
At 07:47 PM 2/1/01 -0800, Jim wrote:
Ok... Just when you've heard everything!
This guy could use some help, and while I've got a similar machine in the
collection, I've got *zip* information on so probably can't be of much help.
Anyone else give him (and the space program) a hand?
-jim
From: "King, Gary E"
<KingGE(a)usano.ksc.nasa.gov>
To: "'jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com'" <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
Subject: Naked Mini Broke
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:30:18 -0500
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
X-Status:
X-Keywords:
Dear Computer Garage,
I'm a tech at United Space Alliance in Cape Canaveral Florida. I have a
Computer Automation LSI 2 computer that doesn't boot up and I'm not sure
why. We use this computer to run automated tests on the space shuttle Ku
band comm systems and need to get it fixed fairly quickly. Can you help? if
so, drop me a line and we'll see if we can work something out.
Gary King
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline.
Current web site and email shown above
8708
days inactive
8725
days old
13 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
bkr＠WildHareComputers.com -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
emu＠ecubics.com -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
frustum＠pacbell.net -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
jrasite＠eoni.com -
oliv555＠arrl.net -
optimus＠canit.se -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
THETechnoid＠home.com