23 Jan
2012
23 Jan
'12
10:12 a.m.
Hi all,
finally I got my real Iron delivered. I nearly can't express how happy I am
about that.
Now the usual Inspection begins (PSUs etc...)
Could please one of you have a look at my "board-layout" in the backplane
and correct me if I am completely wrong?
From top downwards I would insert the modules as
follows:
M8189 - 11/23 -CPU
M8067 - MSV-11 - 256 KW RAM
M8043 - DLV11 - Quad Serial Card
M8061 - RLV12 - RL02 Controller
M7516 - DELQA - Ethernet Card
Goal is to bring this System up with VTSERVER for starters. I hope to add
one or two RL02s in Summer. A RX50 and a RD50/51 or 52 (don't remember at
the moment) are sitting on my shelf too and I'd like to put them in there.
But first I have to get a controller for that.
This all sounds like quite an amount of work and a lot of fun for me :)
Regards,
Wolfgang - who wanted to share his happiness
--
Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL
Operating System Collector
Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com
Homepage: www.eichberger.org
23 Jan
23 Jan
1:17 p.m.
On Jan 23, 2012, at 5:12 AM, Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
Hi all,
finally I got my real Iron delivered. I nearly can't express how happy I am
about that.
Now the usual Inspection begins (PSUs etc...)
Could please one of you have a look at my "board-layout" in the backplane
and correct me if I am completely wrong?
From top downwards I would insert the modules as follows:
M8189 - 11/23 -CPU
M8067 - MSV-11 - 256 KW RAM
M8043 - DLV11 - Quad Serial Card
M8061 - RLV12 - RL02 Controller
M7516 - DELQA - Ethernet Card
Looks OK to me, though I'd point out that the priority is daisy-chained; you may want
to consider moving the DELQA further up the chain (or so it's been recommended to me).
Someone else may be better able to comment on that.
Since the DELQA is a dual-width, you may get some mileage putting it right before the
DLV11 (assuming you have a serpentine layout at that point on your backplane, it'll
help you fill out the pair of slots, and serial interrupts probably ought to be lower
priority than Ethernet, but higher than the disk). You didn't mention what backplane
you're using; the BA23 backplane has 3 quad-width slots of straight-through plus CD,
then the rest are serpentine.
Congrats! Enjoy! It should be easy enough to tell if everything is at least working by
probing the CSRs with ODT.
- Dave
7:09 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 2:12 AM, Wolfgang Eichberger <oe5ewl at gmail.com> wrote:
Could please one of you have a look at my "board-layout" in the backplane
and correct me if I am completely wrong?
From top downwards I would insert the modules as follows:
M8189 - 11/23 -CPU
M8067 - MSV-11 - 256 KW RAM
M8043 - DLV11 - Quad Serial Card
M8061 - RLV12 - RL02 Controller
M7516 - DELQA - Ethernet Card
What backplane do you have? For example you might have one of the DEC
backplanes below:
H9270 4 x 4 backplane (four rows of four slots)
H9273-A 9 x 4 backplane (nine rows of four slots)
H9275-A 9 X 4 backplane (nine rows of four slots)
H9276 9 X 4 backplane (nine rows of four slots)
H9278-A 8 X 4 backplane (eight rows of four slots)
If you have a BA23 box you should have a H9278-A backplane.
Goal is to bring this System up with VTSERVER for
starters. I hope to add
one or two RL02s in Summer. A RX50 and a RD50/51 or 52 (don't remember at
the moment) are sitting on my shelf too and I'd like to put them in there.
But first I have to get a controller for that.
If you have a BA23 box it should have the distribution panel for an
M7555 RQDX3 so then all you need is to find an M7555 plus the cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
-Glen
7:24 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
[...snip] all you need is to find an M7555 plus the cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
-Glen
Really? I'm having lots of trouble finding those for reasonable
prices, like those resellers with their standard rate of $700+.
Sander
--
~ UNIX is basically a simple operating system,
? ? ? ? ? ?but you have to be a genius to understand its simplicity. ~ dmr
7:48 p.m.
On Jan 23, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Sander Reiche wrote:
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Glen Slick
<glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
It's in the US, but: eBay 370550488176 has it for $90 (+$15 shipping) for a Buy It
Now. That's pretty typical for what I've seen on eBay when I've looked.
The cables are probably a different matter, but they can't be that hard to make
yourself with a crimper and generic card edge/pin connectors (I certainly did so for my
Pertec interface tape drive with no problem for $20 for two 3-6 foot lengths of cable and
it works fine).
- Dave
[...snip] all you need is to find an M7555 plus the cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
-Glen
Really? I'm having lots of trouble finding those for reasonable
prices, like those resellers with their standard rate of $700+.
8:15 p.m.
It's in the US, but: eBay 370550488176 has it for $90 (+$15 shipping) for
a Buy It Now. That's pretty typical for what I've seen on eBay when I've
looked.
Thanks for the hint! Recently I got a contact of a site still running '11s
in Production. I think for CNC-Machines or something like that. Maybe I can
get a spare one from there... It's a matter of carefully asking the right
person ;)
The cables are probably a different matter, but they
can't be that hard to
make yourself with a crimper and generic card edge/pin connectors (I
certainly did so for my Pertec interface tape drive with no problem for $20
for two 3-6 foot lengths of cable and it works fine).
As you stated, this should not be too hard to do. I have a Crimper in my
Lab, the connectors should be obtainable and Cable is on stock.
7:56 p.m.
[...snip] all you need is to find an M7555 plus
the cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
-Glen
Really? I'm having lots of trouble finding those for reasonable
prices, like those resellers with their standard rate of $700+.
8:21 p.m.
On Jan 23, 2012, at 2:56 PM, Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
In the US, I haven't had much problem finding them on eBay for less than $100. If you
get a chance, though, see if you can find a CMD CQD-220; they're an MSCP SCSI adaptor
that should work for any OS an RQDX will, but with SCSI disks (i.e. easier to find working
disks). Just make sure you don't tell it you have 0 disks and 0 tapes, or I'll
have to send you my ROM patch to fix a nasty bug that bricks the board... :-)
- Dave
Really?
I'm having lots of trouble finding those for reasonable
prices, like those resellers with their standard rate of $700+.
Seen that already. The reseller's Prices tend to go up enormously now....
But I have time, and maybe I can obtain one or trade one etc etc... $700 is
way too much. If I cannot get a RQDX then I will stay with RL02s. 
8:37 p.m.
On 01/23/2012 02:56 PM, Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
Seen that already. The reseller's Prices tend to go up enormously now....
But I have time, and maybe I can obtain one or trade one etc etc... $700 is
way too much. If I cannot get a RQDX then I will stay with RL02s.
I have several spare RQDX3s here; contact me off-list if you'd like
to talk about swapping something.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
New Kensington, PA
[...snip] all you need is to find an M7555 plus the
cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
-Glen
Really? I'm having lots of trouble finding those for reasonable
prices, like those resellers with their standard rate of $700+.
8:05 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Sander Reiche <sander.reiche at gmail.com> wrote:
$700 is rather extreme. A quick search turns up this, which is still
not what I would consider a great deal, but 1/10 of that price:
DEC M7555 RQDX CTRL
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200599388694
$75 - free shipping in US, reasonable shipping listed to Europe
[...snip] all you need is to find an M7555 plus the cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
Really? I'm having lots of trouble finding those for reasonable
prices, like those resellers with their standard rate of $700+.
7:26 p.m.
What backplane do you have? For example you might have one of the DEC
backplanes below:
hi glen, a little inventory:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
-H9273 11/03L Rev.B Backplane is installed
-Cardcage is not bent but needs some of this plastic-PCB-guides, many are
broken due to age.
-Frontpanel is complete, nice signs of use
-Distribution Panel is missing
# M8189 11/23 KDF11-B CPU Module. S/N 5014316C
# M8067 256 KW Memory Quad-width module
# M8043 Quad Serial Board
# 3rd Party "Fourth Generation Systems LS-256" 256 KB Memory Module (Dual
width)
# M8061 RLV 12 RL01/02 Controller
# M7516 DELQA Controller
-70-21202-01 Cable Assembly with its Distribution Panel attached
-D-Link DL583 RJ45 Ethernet Transceiver
If you have a BA23 box it should have the distribution
panel for an
M7555 RQDX3 so then all you need is to find an M7555 plus the cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
The Distribution Panel is absent, but it should not be too hard to
substitute it with something else. I'm looking forward to fin a M7555, they
seem to be quite common. But first I have to repair the PSU and check
everything.
9:03 p.m.
On Jan 23, 2012 11:40 AM, "Wolfgang Eichberger" <oe5ewl at gmail.com>
wrote:
hi glen, a little inventory:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
-H9273 11/03L Rev.B Backplane is installed
An H9273 should be a straight Q18 / CD bus so you wouldn't want any dual
width cards in the right half of the backplane.
With the amount of memory you have installed maybe it was upgraded to a Q22
bus.
-Glen
9:43 p.m.
On Jan 23, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
Not sure your level of power supply debug experience, so forgive me if this seems obvious.
You checked the PSU loaded, right? A few big, high-watt resistors across each rail to
put at least a few amps (or at least a few hundred mA) on? Otherwise, you may be getting
wildly inaccurate readings.
- Dave
10:12 p.m.
@ david: surely: test under load. its a switcher if i am right.
@ dave: i'll contact you tomorrow. maybe we can talk something out....
regards and a nice night.
wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Eichberger - OE5EWL
Operating System Collector
Blog: 5ewl.blogspot.com
Homepage: www.eichberger.org
2012/1/23 David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com>
On Jan 23, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Wolfgang Eichberger
wrote:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
Not sure your level of power supply debug experience, so forgive me if
this seems obvious. You checked the PSU loaded, right? A few big,
high-watt resistors across each rail to put at least a few amps (or at
least a few hundred mA) on? Otherwise, you may be getting wildly
inaccurate readings.
- Dave
24 Jan
24 Jan
2:35 a.m.
Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
Nice system.
But that's not a BA23, it's a BA11-N. Standard rackmount CPU box for a
PDP-11/03 or early 11/23 systems so what you have may be a box that's
had a CPU upgrade (maybe not though, 11/03s would have had RLV11 not
RLV12, whereas 11/23s usually had RLV12). It's an 18-bit backplane,
which matches your 256KB memory (of which 248K is usable, 8K being
reserved for the I/O page). It's fairly easy to upgrade the backplane
to 22-bit, though, by removing the card cage and soldering a few wires.
Wire-wrap wire is best for that. Your MSV11-P is 22-bit capable, as are
all the other cards you listed.
What backplane
do you have? For example you might have one of the DEC
backplanes below:
hi glen, a little inventory:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
-H9273 11/03L Rev.B Backplane is installed
-Cardcage is not bent but needs some of this plastic-PCB-guides, many are
broken due to age. The Distribution Panel is absent, but it should not be
too hard to
substitute it with something else. I'm looking forward to fin a M7555, they
seem to be quite common. But first I have to repair the PSU and check
everything.
The panel Glen was referring to is a large circuit board that's part of
the middle of a BA23 chassis, behind the backplane, and it has a 50-way
connector for an RQDX controller, along with some sets of 34-way and
20-way connectors for RDxx and RX50/RX33 drives.
Distribution panels for BA11-N boxes are small things for the likes of
DB225 serial connectors and DA15 Ethernet AUI connectors -- you've got a
good example with the panel attached to the DELQA. They fasten onto a
metal back panel, which (if present) is hinged to the back edge of the
BA11 box. They're really just small connector panels, not at all like
the distribution panel Glen meant.
As Allison suggested, an M9058 out of a BA123 is a very good thing to
use with an RQDX, but if you only want one hard drive and a floppy, all
you need is something to split out the signals passively. If you want
to make your own, there's a schematic and PCB layout on my website. I
have a BA11 system very similar to yours, hooked to up a small box that
used to be a TK50 case, and now has a hard drive, an RX50, and that
disti board in it. http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/RQDX/
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
3:11 a.m.
On Jan 23, 2012, at 9:35 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
Nice system.
But that's not a BA23, it's a BA11-N. Standard rackmount CPU box for a PDP-11/03
or early 11/23 systems so what you have may be a box that's had a CPU upgrade (maybe
not though, 11/03s would have had RLV11 not RLV12, whereas 11/23s usually had RLV12).
It's an 18-bit backplane, which matches your 256KB memory (of which 248K is usable, 8K
being reserved for the I/O page). It's fairly easy to upgrade the backplane to
22-bit, though, by removing the card cage and soldering a few wires. Wire-wrap wire is
best for that. Your MSV11-P is 22-bit capable, as are all the other cards you listed.
I'll vouch for that. My backplane (I don't currently have a box) is an H9273; the
designers kindly left proper square wire-wrap posts coming out the back. Updating to
22-bit was a very simple operation with a manual wire-wrap tool, and everything appears to
work perfectly. If you do that, make sure you run your wires in the same serpentine
pattern as the bus! Probably easiest to do the horizontal runs first and then the
verticals to splice them together. Refer to the manual if you're not sure of the
pattern, but I seem to recall that I could see the traces (it was a few years ago).
I wouldn't recommend soldering, mainly because it'd be a huge pain getting the
iron in and it's a lot less reversible. Wire-wrapping it is well worth the time if
you have the tools and the wire.
- Dave
What
backplane do you have? For example you might have one of the DEC
backplanes below:
hi glen, a little inventory:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
-H9273 11/03L Rev.B Backplane is installed
-Cardcage is not bent but needs some of this plastic-PCB-guides, many are
broken due to age.
8:09 a.m.
David Riley wrote:
I'll vouch for that. My backplane (I don't
currently have a box) is
an H9273; the designers kindly left proper square wire-wrap posts
coming out the back. Updating to 22-bit was a very simple operation
with a manual wire-wrap tool, and everything appears to work
perfectly. If you do that, make sure you run your wires in the same
serpentine pattern as the bus!
Are you sure yours was an H9273? Not H9270? I've never seen an H9273
with wirewrap pins, and H9273 is straight (Q18-CD), not serpentine.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
1:44 p.m.
On Jan 24, 2012, at 3:09 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
David Riley wrote:
Ah, yes, that's what I mean. Momentary memory lapse, aided by the fact that it's
not marked on the thing anywhere I can see. Four slots, right?
- Dave
I'll vouch for that. My backplane (I
don't currently have a box) is
an H9273; the designers kindly left proper square wire-wrap posts
coming out the back. Updating to 22-bit was a very simple operation
with a manual wire-wrap tool, and everything appears to work
perfectly. If you do that, make sure you run your wires in the same
serpentine pattern as the bus!
Are you sure yours was an H9273? Not H9270? I've never seen an H9273 with wirewrap
pins, and H9273 is straight (Q18-CD), not serpentine.
9:26 p.m.
David Riley wrote:
Yup, that's it. 4x4 serpentine, usually found in a BA11-M.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Jan 24, 2012, at 3:09 AM, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> David Riley wrote:
>
>> I'll vouch for that. My backplane (I don't currently have a box)
>> is an H9273; the designers kindly left proper square wire-wrap
>> posts coming out the back. Updating to 22-bit was a very simple
>> operation with a manual wire-wrap tool, and everything appears to
>> work perfectly. If you do that, make sure you run your wires in
>> the same serpentine pattern as the bus!
Are you sure
yours was an H9273? Not H9270? I've never seen an
H9273 with wirewrap pins, and H9273 is straight (Q18-CD), not
serpentine.
Ah, yes, that's what I mean. Momentary memory lapse, aided by the
fact that it's not marked on the thing anywhere I can see. Four
slots, right? 
4:33 a.m.
Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
hi glen, a little inventory:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
-H9273 11/03L Rev.B Backplane is installed
-Cardcage is not bent but needs some of this plastic-PCB-guides, many are
broken due to age.
-Frontpanel is complete, nice signs of use
-Distribution Panel is missing
# M8189 11/23 KDF11-B CPU Module. S/N 5014316C
# M8067 256 KW Memory Quad-width module
# M8043 Quad Serial Board
# 3rd Party "Fourth Generation Systems LS-256" 256 KB Memory Module (Dual
width)
# M8061 RLV 12 RL01/02 Controller
# M7516 DELQA Controller
-70-21202-01 Cable Assembly with its Distribution Panel attached
-D-Link DL583 RJ45 Ethernet Transceiver
Every BA23 I have uses the first 3 slots as ABCD and the other
5 slots as ABAB in a serpentine manner. If your H973 is the
same, then the M8043 (or the dual 256 KB memory board
is actually preferred) must be by itself in slot 3.
Then, place the next dual board in slot 4 and the next dual
board in the other half of slot 4. The M8061 quad board
goes into slot 5.
(Alternatively, just place the M8061 in slot 3 and run with
3 quad boards at first until you need the other boards.)
If you get an M7555 (RQDX3), it will go into the first half
of slot 6.
Can anyone confirm this for the H9273?
If the backplane was ever 18 bit, then it must have been
converted to 22 bit since you have 3/4 MB of memory
and an 18 bit backplane handles only 1/4 MB of memory.
>If you have a BA23 box it should have the
distribution panel for an
>M7555 RQDX3 so then all you need is to find an M7555 plus the cables,
>which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
>drives.
>
>
If the distribution panel for the M7555 is present and you
decide to get DEC RD5n drives, the cables are standard MFM
for the hard drive (20 pin and 34 pin) and just a 50 pin cable
from the M7555 to the distribution panel. The RX50
uses a
standard 34 pin cable with a female header at both ends. The
standard front panel has ONE pair of buttons for the hard drive
to control READY and WRITE PROTECT and 2 LEDs for the
floppy drives to detect WRITE PROTECT on the RX50 floppy
media.
Do NOT look for an RD53 since 90% have sticky problems
unless you get them free and are able to fix them.
A Micropolis 1325 can be used, but it requires an extra jumper
or zero ohm resistor (R7). Then you will need ZRQB?? to format
the drive using XXDP software.
The Distribution Panel is absent, but it should not be
too hard to
substitute it with something else. I'm looking forward to fin a M7555, they
seem to be quite common. But first I have to repair the PSU and check
everything.
The M8189 distribution panel (usually called cabinet kit) handles
BOTH serial ports from the M8189. The distribution panel
from the M8043 (also usually called a cabinet kit)
handles all
4 ports. If you initially test with just the first 2 boards (CPU and
memory since you don't have any drives yet), then you somehow
need to connect the terminal to the serial port on the M8189.
However, the correct cabinet kit also sets the baud rate for
the consol port. If you don't have that cabinet kit, then you
will need someone to help with the cable and the setting of the
baud rate.
Let us know if you are successful.
Jerome Fine
4:39 a.m.
Wolfgang Eichberger wrote:
hi glen, a little inventory:
# 11/23 BA23 Box S/N AG07072
-in there is a H786 Rev.C PSU - after quick measurements it's clear that
this PSU needs some work
-H9273 11/03L Rev.B Backplane is installed
-Cardcage is not bent but needs some of this plastic-PCB-guides, many are
broken due to age.
-Frontpanel is complete, nice signs of use
-Distribution Panel is missing
Since you actually have a BA11-N, disregard the
suggestions about the BA23 slots.
Also, you will not have an RD5n distribution
panel.
Your backplane must already be 22 bit since
you have 3/4 MB of memory.
Jerome Fine
25 Jan
25 Jan
9:52 p.m.
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:26:31 +0100
Wolfgang Eichberger <oe5ewl at gmail.com> wrote:
I'm looking forward to fin a M7555, they seem to
be quite common.
Yes. You seem to live in Austria, as your call sign implies. I live
in
Germany and IIRC I have several RQDX3 / M7555 in spare. If you can't
find a RQDX3 more localy I'll help out with one...
--
\end{Jochen}
\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}
24 Jan
24 Jan
12:18 a.m.
On 01/23/2012 02:09 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 2:12 AM, Wolfgang
Eichberger<oe5ewl at gmail.com> wrote:
Depending on the firmware version the controller will support RX33
format (1.23MB)
(TEAC FD55GFR). If only the older firmware you can still use that drive
as a single
drive RX50. Save for a preserved system any I build from random boards
and boxes
use the FD55gfr as it more reliable and quieter.. If you do not have
BA23 the
distribution board out of a BA123 M9058 and cables. FYI the RQDX2
(quad width FDC/HDC) is also usable.
Special note early RQDX2s must be in the last unoccupied slot, they do
not pass the
bus grant signals.
Allison
Could please one of you have a look at my
"board-layout" in the backplane
and correct me if I am completely wrong?
From top downwards I would insert the modules as follows:
M8189 - 11/23 -CPU
M8067 - MSV-11 - 256 KW RAM
M8043 - DLV11 - Quad Serial Card
M8061 - RLV12 - RL02 Controller
M7516 - DELQA - Ethernet Card
What backplane do you have? For example you might have one of the DEC
backplanes below:
H9270 4 x 4 backplane (four rows of four slots)
H9273-A 9 x 4 backplane (nine rows of four slots)
H9275-A 9 X 4 backplane (nine rows of four slots)
H9276 9 X 4 backplane (nine rows of four slots)
H9278-A 8 X 4 backplane (eight rows of four slots)
If you have a BA23 box you should have a H9278-A backplane.
Goal is to bring this System up with VTSERVER for
starters. I hope to add
one or two RL02s in Summer. A RX50 and a RD50/51 or 52 (don't remember at
the moment) are sitting on my shelf too and I'd like to put them in there.
But first I have to get a controller for that.
If you have a BA23 box it should have the distribution panel for an
M7555 RQDX3 so then all you need is to find an M7555 plus the cables,
which shouldn't be too hard to find, to use your RX50 and/or RD5x
drives.
-Glen
4499
days inactive
4501
days old
23 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
ajp166＠verizon.net -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
oe5ewl＠gmail.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
sander.reiche＠gmail.com