3 Sep
2007
3 Sep
'07
7:50 p.m.
Hi,
Meant to include this in my earlier post -
Amongst the other "treasure" I've got a decent sized assortment of old
Motorola, Fairchild, Texas Instruments, Ferranti and National Semiconductor Databooks.
These are all for chips - analog parts, ECL, MECL, TTL, CMOS logic, Special Function
Devices, Memories etc. Date range late 70's to early '90s.
If anyone knows of a better home for these than the paper recycling please let me know.
My sense is that most of the data is available on the 'net now on the various
archives.
Thanks!
Cheers,
Hugh
3 Sep
3 Sep
7:59 p.m.
Meant to include this in my earlier post -
Amongst the other "treasure" I've got a
decent sized assortment of
old Motorola, Fairchild, Texas Instruments, Ferranti and National
Semiconductor Databooks. These are all for chips - analog parts,
ECL, MECL, TTL, CMOS logic, Special Function Devices, Memories etc.
Date range late 70's to early '90s.
Interesting you mention that now. I just today found I have 22 tubes
of assorted DIPs. 16 of them I've been able to find enough info to
use, if I have a need for them - but there are six more I haven't. I
was going to write here and ask if anyone knows where to find specs
(including pinouts) for these - I spent some time with google, and even
checked bitsavers.org and vt100.net (neither of which seems to have
that kind of info - perhaps I missed something?).
Specifically, what I have that's a mystery (/ represents a line break):
MCM2016HN70 / HID8625
CY7C409A-25PC / USA9225 91714
GAL16V8A / 15LP / L218D16
MC14034B / CP QQ8318
If anyone knows of a better home for these than the
paper recycling
please let me know.
I'd like to snag them myself, but I can't help suspecting it would cost
an unpleasant amount to get them clear around the globe.
My sense is that most of the data is available on the
'net now on the
various archives.
Perhaps, but I cahn't help wondering where.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:31 p.m.
der Mouse wrote:
Perhaps, but I cahn't help wondering where.
Or the same data sheet from a NOW off-line site?
The PDF's do add up if you need more than a few parts.
What I find more useful is the PDF'ed old magizines
and other material out of print long before I was born.
Ben alias woodelf
8:34 p.m.
From: "der Mouse":
Specifically, what I have that's a mystery (/
represents a line break):
MCM2016HN70 / HID8625
CY7C409A-25PC / USA9225 91714
GAL16V8A / 15LP / L218D16
MC14034B / CP QQ8318
I found data sheets for three of those and a description of the fourth at:
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/
Vince
8:35 p.m.
der Mouse wrote:
Specifically, what I have that's a mystery (/
represents a line break):
CY7C409A-25PC
cascadable 64 x 8/9 fifo.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
.
9:28 p.m.
On 3 Sep 2007 at 19:59, der Mouse wrote:
MCM2016HN70 / HID8625
CY7C409A-25PC / USA9225 91714
GAL16V8A / 15LP / L218D16
MC14034B / CP QQ8318
In no particular order, the MC14304B is a 4000-series CMOS quad "NOR"
latch. The MCM2016 is a generic 2Kx8 SRAM, the CY7C409A is a 64x9
FIFO,
the GAL16V8A is a CMOS PLD (64x32 arry, registered outputs).
The others are a bit of a mystery to me.
Cheers,
Chuck
4 Sep
4 Sep
10:25 p.m.
On Monday 03 September 2007 19:59, der Mouse wrote:
I've no direct experience with these, but have heard of "GAL" chips, sort
of
like "PAL" chips is about all that comes to mind offhand.
Indeed.
Got three DVDs full of datasheets here, I'm updating and organizing as fast
as I can, as time permits. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
Meant to
include this in my earlier post -
Amongst the other "treasure" I've got a decent sized assortment of
old Motorola, Fairchild, Texas Instruments, Ferranti and National
Semiconductor Databooks. These are all for chips - analog parts,
ECL, MECL, TTL, CMOS logic, Special Function Devices, Memories etc.
Date range late 70's to early '90s.
Interesting you mention that now. I just today found I have 22 tubes
of assorted DIPs. 16 of them I've been able to find enough info to
use, if I have a need for them - but there are six more I haven't. I
was going to write here and ask if anyone knows where to find specs
(including pinouts) for these - I spent some time with google, and even
checked bitsavers.org and vt100.net (neither of which seems to have
that kind of info - perhaps I missed something?).
Specifically, what I have that's a mystery (/ represents a line break):
MCM2016HN70 / HID8625
CY7C409A-25PC / USA9225 91714
GAL16V8A / 15LP / L218D16 MC14034B / CP QQ8318
This one I can pretty well identify. Motorola had already used their 4000
series numbers on some earlier TTL stuff so they couldn't use them after the
4000 series CMOS parts came out, therefore they tacked a 1 in front of the
number. By any other maker that'd be a 4034. I'm pretty sure my parts pages
have data on that one. (Try
http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/by-generic-number.html )
If anyone
knows of a better home for these than the paper recycling
please let me know.
I'd like to snag them myself, but I can't help suspecting it would cost
an unpleasant amount to get them clear around the globe. My sense is
that most of the data is available on the 'net now on the
various archives.
Perhaps, but I cahn't help wondering where. 
11:41 p.m.
On 9/4/07, Roy J. Tellason <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote:
GALs and PALs are similar devices, with a few key differences... PALs
are bipolar devices, and are programmable once. GALs are made of
newer technologies, like FLASH or EAROMs, thus can be erased and
reprogrammed a number of times. PALs come in pre-coded flavors like
10L6 or 16H2, meaning 10 inputs with 6 low-true outputs or 16 inputs
and 2 high-true outputs. With PALs, you took a fistful of your
equations, then you, yourself, picked a part in which the equations
would fit. To make a complex product, you might have 6 or 8 or 10
flavors of PALs in the same design. GALs are "Generic Arrayed Logic",
thus are not pre-configured for certain geometries. A small part
would routinely be described as a 16V8, meaning _up to_ 16 inputs and
_up to_ 8 outputs, with Versatile choice of high true or low true for
the outputs (also there were "registered" PALs like the 16R4 with
flip-flops on the outputs for clocking or latching - GAL outputs are
also optionally "registered").
In the early 1980s, PALs were popular because one PAL could replace a
dozen TTL parts. GALs became popular because you only had to stock
one type of 18-pin part, one type of 20-pin part, one type of 24-pin
part, etc., rather than well over a dozen non-interchangable,
non-reprogrammable parts. Eventually, even GALs were too simplistic
for most professional product designs, but they are still popular with
hobby projects - look at the Spare Time Gizmos line to see how easy it
is to make GAL-based projects. GALs are still readily available for
$1 or less. I don't think they've made PALs in a large number of years
(not that there aren't still millions of loose parts on the resale
market).
Hope that illuminates more than obscures,
-ethan
GAL16V8A /
15LP / L218D16
I've no direct experience with these, but have heard of "GAL" chips, sort
of
like "PAL" chips is about all that comes to mind offhand.
5 Sep
5 Sep
12:56 a.m.
On Tuesday 04 September 2007 23:41, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Hope that illuminates more than obscures,
Sure. I have a bunch of PALs around, mostly pulls from a bunch of XT-class
machines that Zenith made, and it's debatable whether there will ever be a
use for them. GALs, on the other hand, sound like they'be be useful for
all sorts of things. I should probably seek out some data on these parts,
or even a databook, somewhere. Got any pointers to specific numbers?
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
7:55 a.m.
On Sep 5, 2007, at 12:56 AM, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
Sure. I have a bunch of PALs around, mostly pulls
from a bunch of
XT-class
machines that Zenith made, and it's debatable whether there will
ever be a
use for them. GALs, on the other hand, sound like they'be be
useful for
all sorts of things. I should probably seek out some data on these
parts,
or even a databook, somewhere. Got any pointers to specific numbers?
Datasheets for these parts aren't difficult to come by. Despite
all the hype about them having been replaced by FPGAs and CPLDs, they
are still a current product line from a few different manufacturers
(Cypress and Atmel come to mind) and are available from most of the
major distributors.
The most popular ones seem to be the 16V8 and 22V10 (GAL16V8 and
GAL22V10).
It's worth noting that some CPLD families are more-or-less direct
implementations of common PAL architectures. A Xilinx XC9536 CPLD,
for example, is very similar to two of what might have been called
PAL36V18. This comes in very handy if you're experienced with PAL
design and want to move into higher-density devices.
The PALs that you have a pulls are likely useless because they're
one-time programmable. GALs and PALCE devices are electrically-
eraseable, and possibly some others, but not straight PALs.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Farewell Ophelia, 9/22/1991 - 7/25/2007
3:16 p.m.
Dave McGuire said:
It's worth noting that some CPLD families are
more-or-less direct
implementations of common PAL architectures. A Xilinx XC9536 CPLD,
for example, is very similar to two of what might have been called
PAL36V18. This comes in very handy if you're experienced with PAL
design and want to move into higher-density devices.
Nah, while you can use ABEL and PALASM scripts to convert into programming
patterns for a CPLD, you can't vice versa map Verilog and VHDL
descriptions of certain complexity into PALs/GALs. It is not the gate
count alone that counts, but at that point the flexibility of the
interconnection network between the logic blocks. A difficulty with
GAL/PALs is that their logic blocks typically contain a flipflop whose
output is more or less directly associated with an output pin of the chip.
You can feed it back to the input and/or matrix to build Moore-style
finite state machines, but you usually lose an output pin for those hidden
feedbacks. CPLDs in contrast separate logic blocks an I/O blocks and allow
almost free assignment between logic and I/O.
Regards
--
Holger
6 Sep
6 Sep
12:57 a.m.
On Wednesday 05 September 2007 07:55, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Sep 5, 2007, at 12:56 AM, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
I just need some point at which to get started. I'll have a look around,
then, with those numbers in mind...
Sure. I have a bunch of PALs around, mostly
pulls from a bunch of
XT-class machines that Zenith made, and it's debatable whether there will
ever be a use for them. GALs, on the other hand, sound like they'be be
useful for all sorts of things. I should probably seek out some data on
these parts, or even a databook, somewhere. Got any pointers to specific
numbers?
Datasheets for these parts aren't difficult to come by. Despite
all the hype about them having been replaced by FPGAs and CPLDs, they
are still a current product line from a few different manufacturers
(Cypress and Atmel come to mind) and are available from most of the
major distributors.
The most popular ones seem to be the 16V8 and 22V10 (GAL16V8 and
GAL22V10). It's worth noting that some CPLD families are
more-or-less direct
implementations of common PAL architectures. A Xilinx XC9536 CPLD,
for example, is very similar to two of what might have been called
PAL36V18. This comes in very handy if you're experienced with PAL
design and want to move into higher-density devices.
I've little experience with the current crop of programmable hardware, it's
just too "out there" for most of what I'd be into doing...
The PALs that you have a pulls are likely useless
because they're
one-time programmable. GALs and PALCE devices are electrically-
eraseable, and possibly some others, but not straight PALs.
Sure. Unless I run into somebody who for some reason wants to repair one of
those machines, or similar. But I'll use 'em as push pins before I just
toss 'em out.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
5 Sep
5 Sep
1:35 a.m.
On 4 Sep 2007 at 22:41, Ethan Dicks wrote:
GALs and PALs are similar devices, with a few key
differences... PALs
are bipolar devices, and are programmable once. GALs are made of
newer technologies, like FLASH or EAROMs, thus can be erased and
reprogrammed a number of times.
...and all of the relatives, such as EPLD and PEEL. Out of vogue
today, but really cool when they first came out--and a foreshadowing
of FPGAs and CPLD. Still can be very handy for fitting a medium-
hairy functionality into a 20-pin DIP.
Cheers,
Chuck
3 Sep
3 Sep
8:17 p.m.
Hugh Blemings wrote:
Hi,
Meant to include this in my earlier post -
Amongst the other "treasure" I've got a decent sized assortment of old
Motorola, Fairchild, Texas Instruments, Ferranti and National Semiconductor Databooks.
These are all for chips - analog parts, ECL, MECL, TTL, CMOS logic, Special Function
Devices, Memories etc. Date range late 70's to early '90s.
If anyone knows of a better home for these than the paper recycling please let me know.
My sense is that most of the data is available on the 'net now on the various
archives.
Well at 1:13 am I tend not to want to wait for the puter to warm up
and connect to find the pin out of a 7400 online from umm yawn where was that
site again ... not get your **** bigger . You can find many modern
chips but it take a bit a digging to find older chip. Often the database
sites you pay to view.
Thanks!
Cheers,
Hugh
Ben alias Woodelf
PS. Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
9:05 p.m.
Hugh Blemings wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Meant to include this in my earlier post -
>
> Amongst the other "treasure" I've got a decent sized assortment of old
Motorola, Fairchild, Texas Instruments, Ferranti and National Semiconductor Databooks.
These are all for chips - analog parts, ECL, MECL, TTL, CMOS logic, Special Function
Devices
, Memories etc. Date range late 70's to early '90s.
If anyone knows of a better home for these than the paper recycling please let me know.
My sense is that most of the data is available on the 'net now on the various
archives.
Well at 1:13 am I tend not to want to wait for the puter to warm up
and connect to find the pin out of a 7400 online from umm yawn where was that PS. Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already.
:)
So have I. Into my brain. I think I'll rememebr that one until my dying day.
-tony
4 Sep
4 Sep
5:34 p.m.
Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:>
I, too, much prefer to have paper
datasheets/databooks. It's a lot easier
to flip thorugh a databook than try to find what > you want on the web.
Before the days of 'everything on the web' the
Relying on everything being
on the web is very bad. All it takes is a server failure, closing of a website or someone
to "leave the web forever" and all the data is gone.
I am busy archiving a programming group (AMOS-LIST) over on Yahoo before it vanishes
(Yahoo often delete groups without reason, regardless of how active it is). Mainly for my
own use, but I have uploaded some of it to Aminet for fellow Amiga enthusiasts.
Got a long way to go though, I have 3000 messages out of 8300 on my laptop. Hard work, but
alot of valuable info (and example code).
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
5 Sep
5 Sep
2 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
If you can get hold of one, the Texas Instruments Digital Logic Pocket Data
Book (doc code SCYD013A) is a great little desktop reference. It's about A5
size and has pinouts and logic diagrams for just about all of TI's 4000- and
74-series logic chips.
They used to give them out free-for-the-asking, but I'm not sure if they still
do. If I wanted another copy, I'd probably try calling the local TI sales
office and asking nicely.
Of course, when I got mine, they also sent me a box full of other databooks as
well - basically the whole logic databook series and most of the analog
product guides and databooks. The box was about 4ft long by 2ft wide and 1.5ft
tall...
--
Phil. | (\_/) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk | (='.'=) into your signature to help him gain
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | (")_(") world domination.
PS. Iv'e
got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
So have I. Into my brain. I think I'll rememebr that one until my dying day.
2:19 p.m.
Someone wrote:
PS. Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
Just remember that the 7401 is not an OC version of the 7400. :)
I've got to keep going back to the databook for the chips with
"middle" supply pins, like the 7475.
Cheers,
Chuck
2:48 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Someone wrote:
PS. Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
Just remember that the 7401 is not an OC version of the 7400. :)
I've got to keep going back to the databook for the chips with
"middle" supply pins, like the 7475.
I don't use 4 bit latches. No problem for me :)
Other than the 4 bit adder 7486 I can't think of any common
chips with middle supply pins.
Cheers,
Chuck
3:47 p.m.
On 5 Sep 2007 at 12:48, woodelf wrote:
I don't use 4 bit latches. No problem for me :)
Other than the 4 bit adder 7486 I can't think of any common
chips with middle supply pins.
If your designs are old enough, there are a bunch. 7441 = BCD to 7-
segment gas tube driver. 7492, 7493 = 4 bit counter, 7473 = dual JK
FF, 7476 = dual JK FF and almost all of the other "non-7400" TTL
stuff, such as the MC400, 500, 2000, etc. series.
It seems to me that there was one oddball case of a 74L series chip
having a different pinout that the 74 "vanilla" flavor. Anyone
remember?
Cheers,
Chuck
4:43 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 5 Sep 2007 at 12:48, woodelf wrote:
^^^^^^^^^
<pedantic> 7441=nixie tube driver </pedantic>
I don't use 4 bit latches. No problem for me
:)
Other than the 4 bit adder 7486 I can't think of any common
chips with middle supply pins.
If your designs are old enough, there are a bunch. 7441 = BCD to
7-segment gas tube driver. 7492, 7493 = 4 bit counter, 7473 = dual JK FF, 7476 = dual JK FF and almost all of the other
"non-7400" TTL
stuff, such as the MC400, 500, 2000, etc. series.
(For me, the 7473 always seemed to stand out as the oddball pinout as the chip
was so common.)
It seems to me that there was one oddball case of a
74L series chip
having a different pinout that the 74 "vanilla" flavor. Anyone
remember?
The 74L86 quad XOR pinout differs from that of 7486, also 'L85/'85,
'L93/'93, 'L95/'95.
5:15 p.m.
On 5 Sep 2007 at 13:43, Brent Hilpert wrote:
"Nixie" refers to a Burroughs-trademarked product. I believe that a
7441 can also drive Numicators. Also VFDs, so my term of "gas tube"
isn't even accurate. How's that for pedantic? ;)
If your
designs are old enough, there are a bunch. 7441 = BCD to
7-segment gas tube driver. 7492, 7493 = 4 bit counter, 7473 = dual JK
^^^^^^^^^
<pedantic> 7441=nixie tube driver </pedantic> The 74L86 quad XOR pinout differs from that of 7486,
also 'L85/'85, 'L93/'93, 'L95/'95.
It was the L86 that I was thinking of. Gate pinout oriented as face-
to-face instead of head-to-tail. "L" gates could be wire-ORed also;
something I recall that you can find in the MITS 8800 front panel
(along with bare mains AC traces). (The two ARE related in my
computer, one accidental probe leading to the demise of an L00 in the
Altair).
Cheers,
Chuck
6:11 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 5 Sep 2007 at 13:43, Brent Hilpert wrote:
"Nixie" refers to a Burroughs-trademarked product. I believe that a
7441 can also drive Numicators. Also VFDs, so my term of "gas tube"
isn't even accurate. How's that for pedantic? ;)
Whoops, yes, I should have said 1-of-10 decoder - was just trying to distinguish
that it's logically quite different than a 7-seg decoder.
I think I actually did see a 7441 used for something other than driving a nixie
once, as you suggest, but I can't remember what it was in.
If your
designs are old enough, there are a bunch. 7441 = BCD to
7-segment gas tube driver. 7492, 7493 = 4 bit counter, 7473 = dual JK
^^^^^^^^^
<pedantic> 7441=nixie tube driver </pedantic> 
6:38 p.m.
On Wednesday 05 September 2007, Brent Hilpert wrote:
Whoops, yes, I should have said 1-of-10 decoder - was
just trying to
distinguish that it's logically quite different than a 7-seg decoder.
I think I actually did see a 7441 used for something other than
driving a nixie once, as you suggest, but I can't remember what it
was in.
Maybe a bar (dot) graph?
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
6:55 p.m.
On 9/5/07, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote:
Whoops, yes, I should have said 1-of-10 decoder - was
just trying to distinguish
that it's logically quite different than a 7-seg decoder.
I think I actually did see a 7441 used for something other than driving a nixie
once, as you suggest, but I can't remember what it was in.
I _think_ I remember seeing a 7441 being used as a solenoid driver in
"The TTL Cookbook" or something of that vintage.
-ethan
6:58 p.m.
It seems to me that there was one oddball case of a
74L series chip
having a different pinout that the 74 "vanilla" flavor. Anyone
remember?
There are many .A quick flip through my old TTL book shows :
74H01 (pinout as 7400!) as against 7401 ('gates turned round')
7451/74H51/74S51 as against 74L51/74LS51 (the latter has one more input
on each of the NANDs in one of the AOIs)
7454 as agains 74H54 (the latter has one extra input on one of the ANDs)
74H55 as against 74L55/74LS55 (the former has an 'expander' input)
74H71 (AND-D-OR gated JK master/slave flipflop with preset) as against
74L71 (AND gated R-S master-slave flipflop with preset and clear). And
the pinouts are totally different too!
7493 as against 74L93 (even the power pins move!)
7495/74LS95 as against 74L95 (the former has corner power pins, the
latter middle power pins.)
-tony
6 Sep
6 Sep
2:02 a.m.
On Wednesday 05 September 2007 15:47, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 5 Sep 2007 at 12:48, woodelf wrote:
Yes, though I'm not sure of the number. '95? Something like that...
I do have an old TI databook around someplace but it's currently buried in
some box somewhere and I have *no* idea which box at present.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
I don't use 4 bit latches. No problem for me
:)
Other than the 4 bit adder 7486 I can't think of any common
chips with middle supply pins.
If your designs are old enough, there are a bunch. 7441 = BCD to 7-
segment gas tube driver. 7492, 7493 = 4 bit counter, 7473 = dual JK
FF, 7476 = dual JK FF and almost all of the other "non-7400" TTL
stuff, such as the MC400, 500, 2000, etc. series.
It seems to me that there was one oddball case of a 74L series chip
having a different pinout that the 74 "vanilla" flavor. Anyone
remember?
2:28 a.m.
On 6 Sep 2007 at 2:02, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
I do have an old TI databook around someplace but
it's currently buried in
some box somewhere and I have *no* idea which box at present.
http://www.datasheets.org.uk/databooks/databook.php?q=32 has a 1978
Ferranti IC book that shows both vanilla and L-series pinouts. One-
page-at-a-time-with-an-enter-what-you-see-displayed-prompt. But it's
there.
The 7486/L86 was what I was thinking of, but Tony added others. Over
the years, I've run into otherwise rational people who swore that it
just couldn't be--that the only major differences were speed,
fanin/out and power.
Another gotcha is that some "vanilla" 74xx flip-flops are level-
triggered while their LS counterparts are edge-triggered.
My first LED clock used 7492s and 7493s.
Anyone know if the old TI TTL Databook is online anywhere? I've
found some individual TTL datasheets on the TI site, but I'd like to
see the whole thing as a downloadable file.
Cheers,
Chuck
12:14 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Anyone know if the old TI TTL Databook is online anywhere? I've
found some individual TTL datasheets on the TI site, but I'd like to
see the whole thing as a downloadable file.
Bitsavers does. It looks around 1970 ish, but it is rather BIG.
BTW* Does anybody know if "Designing with TTL integrated circuits"
by TI is online?
Cheers,
Chuck
Ben alias Woodelf
* I hope not in Australia for a hardcopy.
5 Sep
5 Sep
6:41 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Don;'t you mean 7483 here? The 7486 is a quad XOR gate, pinout similar to
the 8400, and with corner supply pins.
The 74283 is a 4-bit adder with a more sane pinout (and corner supply pins).
Someone wrote:
PS. Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
Just remember that the 7401 is not an OC version of the 7400. :)
I've got to keep going back to the databook for the chips with
"middle" supply pins, like the 7475.
I don't use 4 bit latches. No problem for me :)
Other than the 4 bit adder 7486 I can't think of any common chips with middle supply pins.
The ones I come acorss most often are the 7490, 7492, 7493 counters.
-tony
7:31 p.m.
On 9/5/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Don;'t you mean 7483 here? ...
The 74283 is a 4-bit adder with a more sane pinout (and corner supply pins).
Ah... good to know. The PDP-8/L and -8/i have a 7483 on each M220
card, but I remember seeing either a 74283 or, if it exists, a 74183
in the design for that PDP-8/i work-alike I mentioned here a few weeks
ago. The difference, I would guess, is probably that the designer of
the clone didn't want to fiddle with an older, odd chip.
I should probably find a source of a handful of 7483s since I have a
small stack of dead M220s. I don't know what's wrong with them yet
(probably dead 7474s if the rest of the machine is any indication),
but I'd hate to trace it to the adder and have no spares on hand.
I did not realize it was a strange-power-pin part. I would have
figured it out eventually, but it's best to be forwarned.
-ethan
6 Sep
6 Sep
12:02 a.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
Ah... good to know. The PDP-8/L and -8/i have a 7483
on each M220
card, but I remember seeing either a 74283 or, if it exists, a 74183
in the design for that PDP-8/i work-alike I mentioned here a few weeks
ago. The difference, I would guess, is probably that the designer of
the clone didn't want to fiddle with an older, odd chip.
Unicorn electronics still have 74XX listed but many of the chips
are (Discontinued -- limited to stock on hand). Oddly the 7483 does
not state that. They also may have 7482's -- dual adder,
as I think they where used the original PDP-11.
I should probably find a source of a handful of 7483s
since I have a
small stack of dead M220s. I don't know what's wrong with them yet
(probably dead 7474s if the rest of the machine is any indication),
but I'd hate to trace it to the adder and have no spares on hand.
Where do most people get their spares from?
I did not realize it was a strange-power-pin part. I
would have
figured it out eventually, but it's best to be forwarned.
-ethan
Ben alias woodelf
2:23 a.m.
On Wednesday 05 September 2007 19:31, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 9/5/07, Tony Duell <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Are 7474s problematic for some reason? I seem to remember having a bunch of
those, but I think in storage...
Don;'t you mean 7483 here? ...
The 74283 is a 4-bit adder with a more sane pinout (and corner supply
pins).
Ah... good to know. The PDP-8/L and -8/i have a 7483 on each M220
card, but I remember seeing either a 74283 or, if it exists, a 74183
in the design for that PDP-8/i work-alike I mentioned here a few weeks
ago. The difference, I would guess, is probably that the designer of
the clone didn't want to fiddle with an older, odd chip.
I should probably find a source of a handful of 7483s since I have a
small stack of dead M220s. I don't know what's wrong with them yet
(probably dead 7474s if the rest of the machine is any indication),
but I'd hate to trace it to the adder and have no spares on hand. I did not realize it was a strange-power-pin part. I
would have
figured it out eventually, but it's best to be forwarned.
This seems to be as good a place as any to mention that I've got as many of
those "generic" numbers as I could find any data on, along with the
datasheets, here:
http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/by-generic-number.html
Along with other stuff elsewhere nearby. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
2:52 a.m.
On 9/6/07, Roy J. Tellason <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote:
On Wednesday 05 September 2007 19:31, Ethan Dicks
wrote:
In the case of my PDP-8/L repairs, I've found the two most common ICs
to find dead are the 7474s and 7440s (and there are a lot of them in
there).
-ethan
I should probably find a source of a handful of
7483s since I have a
small stack of dead M220s. I don't know what's wrong with them yet
(probably dead 7474s if the rest of the machine is any indication),
but I'd hate to trace it to the adder and have no spares on hand.
Are 7474s problematic for some reason? I seem to remember having a bunch of
those, but I think in storage...
3:11 p.m.
On 9/5/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Don;'t you mean 7483 here? ...
>
> The 74283 is a 4-bit adder with a more sane pinout (and corner supply pins).
[...]
I did not realize it was a strange-power-pin part. I
would have
figured it out eventually, but it's best to be forwarned.
It's even better to have a TTL databook to hand when working on such
machines. Then you're not tempted to guess.
Actually, that's another advantage of paper databooks. Since the
databooks cover many related chips, you're likely to have the data on
most of the chips in the machine to hand if you have the databooks on
some of them. Whereas if you download infividual datasheets, you'll only
have the data on the chips you've downloaded data for.
Which means that if you're debugging an old machine and come across some
chip you didn't realise was used in said machine, if you have the
databook, you probably have the datahsset, and will look it up. If you
are relying on the web, you might say 'Oh, I know that one' and not
bother to downloasd and print the datasheet. And then spend hours sorting
out a problem due to the fact that you didn't really know said chip...
-tony
5 Sep
5 Sep
11:51 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Don;'t you mean 7483 here? The 7486 is a quad XOR
gate, pinout similar to
the 8400, and with corner supply pins.
Yes I did. Don't ask why I thinking 86?
The 74283 is a 4-bit adder with a more sane pinout
(and corner supply pins).
And faster too I think. I was looking at some old TTL
databooks (bitsavers)
and noticed it was two two bit adders glued into the same package. That was
lots of transistors back then.
The ones I come acorss most often are the 7490, 7492, 7493 counters.
I don't
see them often, a TTL digital clock (with nixes) comes to mind
using them that may have been some early 70's magazine.
-tony
Odd how the old stuff is coming back for projects. You don't see
I built a PeeCee project from scratch using ... , just "I added blinking
lights to my case" as todays project.
Ben alias woodelf.
6 Sep
6 Sep
3:23 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I meant 'pinout like the 7400', of course.
The 74L86 is aonther one of the 'different pinouts to the plain version'.
It has the outputs on the centre pins of each side (corner power), rather
like the normal 4000-series CMOS quad gates.
-tony
Don;'t you mean 7483 here? The 7486 is a quad
XOR gate, pinout similar to
the 8400, and with corner supply pins.
5 Sep
5 Sep
6:36 p.m.
Someone wrote:
PS. Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
Just remember that the 7401 is not an OC version of the 7400. :)
No, the O/C version of the 7400 is the 7403.
I've got to keep going back to the databook for
the chips with
"middle" supply pins, like the 7475.
Ne too, And I can never remember the pinouts of the more obscure JK
flip-flops, or some the lower-numbered counters with the outputs in a
crazy order.
The other thing to watch for (if you're repairing old hardware...) is
that there are some (IIRC) 74Hxxx chips where the pinout is totally
differeint for the 'plain' or LS version.
-tony
6 Sep
6 Sep
1:48 a.m.
On Wednesday 05 September 2007 14:19, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Someone wrote:
PS. Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
Just remember that the 7401 is not an OC version of the 7400. :)
That would be the 7403, no? I never could understand why they needed two
kinds of those...
I've got to keep going back to the databook for
the chips with
"middle" supply pins, like the 7475.
And 7490?
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
5 Sep
5 Sep
6:27 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
If you can get hold of one, the Texas Instruments Digital Logic Pocket Data
Book (doc code SCYD013A) is a great little desktop reference. It's about A5
size and has pinouts and logic diagrams for just about all of TI's 4000- and
74-series logic chips.
I'll stick to my 'full' TI TTL databooks. I have an old hard-backed one,
covering things like 74Hxxx numbers (it's late enough to contain 74LS,
but nothing after that), and the full 3-volume set. Volume 1 is plain, S
and LS, Volume 2 is AS and ALS, Volume 3 is programmable stuff (PROMs,
PALs). I forget which book contains RAMs ;-)
PS.
Iv'e got the 7400 pinout downloaded already. :)
So have I. Into my brain. I think I'll rememebr that one until my dying day.
They used to give them out free-for-the-asking, but I'm not sure if they still
do. If I wanted another copy, I'd probably try calling the local TI sales
office and asking nicely.
Of course, when I got mine, they also sent me a box full of other databooks as
well - basically the whole logic databook series and most of the analog
product guides and databooks. The box was about 4ft long by 2ft wide and 1.5ft
tall...
You were lucky. I had to _pay_ for all my databooks....
-tony
6145
days inactive
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aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
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