23 Jul
2014
23 Jul
'14
3:29 a.m.
Hey guys, kind of burnt out on the micro computer stuff, I want
something that will challenge me. So im looking for a Mini computer of
some sort, PDP or something along those lines, a vaxstation seems
interesting too. Ill be at VCFMW
Let me know what you got, and what you think is best, Im kind of a
noob to them.
Steve
23 Jul
23 Jul
3:54 p.m.
Hey guys, kind of burnt out on the micro computer stuff, I want
something that will challenge me. So im looking for a Mini computer of
some sort, PDP or something along those lines, a vaxstation seems
interesting too. Ill be at VCFMW
Let me know what you got, and what you think is best, Im kind of a
noob to them.
I'm goign to get flamed for saying this, but it basically ocmes down to
DEC or somebody else :-)
The advantage of DEC is that they are well-known, there are lot of
manuals, etc. So you will not have problems finding inforamtion on them
The advantage of soemthing else is that they are less well known, so you
will ahve to work thigns out for yourslef in a lot of cases. Which is how
you learn a lot.
Personally I'd avoid IBM. They used a lot of custom ICs, no schematic
sare avialable for many of the minis. Whch would put me (as a hardware
hacker) off them.
But, IMHO, you should grab any machine you can find. My first mini was a
Philips P850 (don't pretend you've heard of it), afiarly rare 16 bit
machine. I had the schematics for the processor and the user manual and
not a lot more This was my first entry into machines built from simple
TTL logic chips, and I learnt a lot .
My second machine as DEC. But perhaps not the best DEC to start with. A
PDP11/45 with MMU and floating point. I did, again, have the schematics
for soem fo it, but I had to modify one of the expansion backplanes to
take th eRAM board it had come with, I also didn't know the instruction
set. Yes, again, I got it workign and learnt a lot.
This was before the web, of course, s o Icouldn't jsut look on bitsavers.
I was figuring out what I could from whatever books/manuals I could find.
You want to think why you want a mini. Do you want a lights-n-switches
panel? Dp you want a procesor built from TTL (or discrete transistors), or
would one using a single-chip processor be OK. What do you intend doign
with it?
-tony
4:57 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
If you are willing to drive, there's an 11/34 in Edmonton, Alberta, right??
Might be as good an opportunity as any. The 11/34 is a nice little example
of a mini; not too small, not too big.
Finding a genuine old mini out in the wild, or having one fall into your
lap like the guys up in Alberta did is a fairly long shot nowadays. It's
just been so long since that hardware could conceivably have been in
production, anywhere. I got my 11/34a back maybe 15 years ago and even
then, I knew I had gotten lucky. Most equipment will be in the hands of
collectors already and convincing them to part with it will be difficult
and/or expensive, LOL.
Tony is absolutely right, you will likely want to focus on DEC because they
were the biggest vendor of minicomputers, there is lots of support out
there in terms of full schematic print sets, ROM dumps, software
documentation, protocol specs, pinouts, etc. Most common parts, you can
still find without too much trouble (for a price). Don't waste time with
IBM stuff because it is all very proprietary and unless the system is 100%
complete and running as decommissioned, you will have very low likelihood
of ever getting it online because you will not be able to get parts or
software.
Data General ran a distant second place behind DEC, you might keep your
eyes out for that, although DG parts, software and documentation are not so
easy to find like DEC stuff is... Honestly I have never, ever seen a piece
of DG equipment in the state of Michigan.
HPs are another make that you may have some hope of finding, depending on
where you look. HP 2000s, 3000s... I would say state of the market is
similar to that of DG; tends to be obscure relative to DEC, but there's
some info out there.
Anything else, I think it would be really an exercise in futility to try to
find them... PR1MEs, TI-990s, etc.
If you are finding the 8-bit home computers dull (and I don't blame ya, I
never found them very interesting myself) there are other, easier avenues
you might follow for interesting projects; it's not too hard (or expensive)
to find the bits to assemble a little LSI-11, at least then you can play
with a real hardware implementation of the PDP-11 instruction set, or maybe
consider S-100, Multibus, VME equipment for a little bit of a challenge.
That's not so hard to find, there's some fun to be had with that type of
stuff.
Best,
Sean
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Hey guys, kind of burnt out on the micro computer stuff, I want
something that will challenge me. So im looking for a Mini computer of
some sort, PDP or something along those lines, a vaxstation seems
interesting too. Ill be at VCFMW
Let me know what you got, and what you think is best, Im kind of a
noob to them.
I'm goign to get flamed for saying this, but it basically ocmes down to
DEC or somebody else :-)
The advantage of DEC is that they are well-known, there are lot of
manuals, etc. So you will not have problems finding inforamtion on them
The advantage of soemthing else is that they are less well known, so you
will ahve to work thigns out for yourslef in a lot of cases. Which is how
you learn a lot.
Personally I'd avoid IBM. They used a lot of custom ICs, no schematic
sare avialable for many of the minis. Whch would put me (as a hardware
hacker) off them.
But, IMHO, you should grab any machine you can find. My first mini was a
Philips P850 (don't pretend you've heard of it), afiarly rare 16 bit
machine. I had the schematics for the processor and the user manual and
not a lot more This was my first entry into machines built from simple
TTL logic chips, and I learnt a lot .
My second machine as DEC. But perhaps not the best DEC to start with. A
PDP11/45 with MMU and floating point. I did, again, have the schematics
for soem fo it, but I had to modify one of the expansion backplanes to
take th eRAM board it had come with, I also didn't know the instruction
set. Yes, again, I got it workign and learnt a lot.
This was before the web, of course, s o Icouldn't jsut look on bitsavers.
I was figuring out what I could from whatever books/manuals I could find.
You want to think why you want a mini. Do you want a lights-n-switches
panel? Dp you want a procesor built from TTL (or discrete transistors), or
would one using a single-chip processor be OK. What do you intend doign
with it?
-tony
6:29 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
Data General ran a distant second place behind DEC,
you might keep your
eyes out for that, although DG parts, software and documentation are not so
easy to find like DEC stuff is...
Some of us have a widely differing opinion on this. There is a *lot*
of it out there, if you look and ask. Much software, much
documentation.
Data General gear is a good choice for minicomputer fun, as it tends
to be a fraction of the cost of comparable DEC gear.
--
Will
6:47 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
OK, yeah, disclaimer, I'm in Michigan and I happen to know from another
mailing list that Steve is also in the state, so my opinions are colored by
geography... if you live in MA, it's probably crawling, relatively
speaking, with DG (and DEC, and ...) gear. There seems to be at least one
or two of everything in CA, go figure :) Here in MI as a collector, you
depend a lot on what the universities brought in, which was mostly DEC; the
big industries, I don't know as much about... That stuff doesn't make its
way out to the general public so much anyway, either it's leased and goes
back to the lessor when it's obsolete, or the company just scraps it all...
they don't do "property dispo" like the universities do.
I remember seeing lots of DEC VAX and HP/Apollo when my Dad brought me
along for "take your kid to work day" at Eaton (I think getting up close
and personal with those is what ultimately sparked the insanity, LOL) but
this would have been a bit after the golden days of the mini, in the late
80s and early 90s.
There is probably more stuff a bit further afield in IL, IN, OH, but my
feeling from almost 20 years of scrounging is that DEC was king here in the
upper Midwest, as far as minicomputer sales went.
Best,
Sean
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 6:29 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
wrote:
Data General
ran a distant second place behind DEC, you might keep your
eyes out for that, although DG parts, software and documentation are not
so
easy to find like DEC stuff is...
Some of us have a widely differing opinion on this. There is a *lot*
of it out there, if you look and ask. Much software, much
documentation.
Data General gear is a good choice for minicomputer fun, as it tends
to be a fraction of the cost of comparable DEC gear.
--
Will
7:07 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
OK, yeah, disclaimer, I'm in Michigan and I happen
to know from another
mailing list that Steve is also in the state, so my opinions are colored by
geography... if you live in MA, it's probably crawling, relatively
speaking, with DG (and DEC, and ...) gear.
Data General managed to get spread out more evenly than DEC, for some
reason. I have done a lot of pickups of DG stuff - there does not seem
to be a concentration in the Northeast.
--
Will
7:09 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
Here in MI as a collector, you
depend a lot on what the universities brought in, which was mostly DEC; the
big industries, I don't know as much about...
With all the manufacturing, I might think that Michigan could be the
happy hunting grounds for minicomputers.
--
Will
7:23 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Jul 23, 2014, at 15:29 , William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Agreed! There's not as much of the Nova stuff sitting on open servers for anybody to
Google it up as there is DEC stuff, but I've been able to find useful documentation
and software by asking the Right People. So the Nova seems a bit opaque at first, but
it's not so bad once you figure out who to talk to.
I've been offered a good piece of money for my Nova 3, but I'm not sure that
I'd want to give it up. I certainly want to get the data off the hard drive before it
leaves my hands, because I've been interested in the back story of the fellow who
originally owned this machine and the PDP-11 system that came along with it. I'm still
working off-and-on on trying to get it to boot off the drive... and I'm liking the
machine more and more. The heavier end of my vintage computer collection is very
DEC-centric, but my Nova 3 rack is also pretty neat.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
Data General
ran a distant second place behind DEC, you might keep your
eyes out for that, although DG parts, software and documentation are not so
easy to find like DEC stuff is...
Some of us have a widely differing opinion on this. There is a *lot*
of it out there, if you look and ask. Much software, much
documentation. 
7:47 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
The Auerbach 1971 Minicomputer book is interesting:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/auerbach/Auerbach_Minicomp…
While there are some familiar names in Appendix D, quite a number lead
to some head-scratching. For example, does anyone own an Atron mini?
--Chuck
5:04 p.m.
On Jul 23, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Good points.
The comment that other things are hard to find makes me wonder: what about Philips
minicomputers? Chances of finding them in the USA are slim to none, but what about
Europe? I did my first hands-on programming on a 24 bit Philips mini (P9200 ???), at the
Evoluon in Eindhoven. It has some fascinating design aspects. I still have a few pages
of code, though no manuals or anything else.
paul
Hey guys, kind of burnt out on the micro computer stuff, I want
something that will challenge me. So im looking for a Mini computer of
some sort, PDP or something along those lines, a vaxstation seems
interesting too. Ill be at VCFMW
Let me know what you got, and what you think is best, Im kind of a
noob to them.
I'm goign to get flamed for saying this, but it basically ocmes down to
DEC or somebody else :-)
5:37 p.m.
On 07/23/2014 02:04 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
The comment that other things are hard to find makes
me wonder: what
about Philips minicomputers? Chances of finding them in the USA are
slim to none, but what about Europe? I did my first hands-on
programming on a 24 bit Philips mini (P9200 ???), at the Evoluon in
Eindhoven. It has some fascinating design aspects. I still have a
few pages of code, though no manuals or anything else.
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example, I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as
a start.
Of course, you will need to find maintenance documents, programs, etc.
--Chuck
5:57 p.m.
On 7/23/2014 2:37 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example, I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s,
as a start.
I own a 520i, wish I could have snagged a 620i. A friend worked for
varian on the 620i.
The microdata 1600 has a 620i emulator, for which I have the firmware
somewhere. It was used by GTE for some phone applications (620i) and
they migrated to 1600's for a time.
I have snagged 2 620i manuals, one for me, one for my buddy.
Jim
6:07 p.m.
On 7/23/14 2:37 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
TI 990s
Of course, you will need to find maintenance documents, programs, etc.
I have at least six 990's, boxes of boards, and ten or more boxes of documentation
if someone wants to make a serious offer on the lot for pickup in Fremont, California.
6:58 p.m.
On 07/23/2014 03:07 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
I have at least six 990's, boxes of boards, and
ten or more boxes of
documentation
if someone wants to make a serious offer on the lot for pickup in
Fremont, California.
Nice--the 990 is an interesting beast because one (990/5) of the models
aren't minicomputers at all--they're micros, using the same chip as the
99/4 home computer. The 990/10 and 990/12 seem to be the big boys of
the line. Not terribly exciting in the blinkenlights area, however.
RICM also seems to have an abundance of TI iron and documentation also,
so perhaps that's a good first mini.
--Chuck
6:32 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example,
I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as a
start.
Of course, you will need to find maintenance documents, programs, etc.
1700s are quite rare, but there is a good pile of docs and software
available. Disks tend to be pretty common, as they were used with
other systems.
--
Will
6:49 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On 7/23/14 3:32 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
1700s are quite rare, but there is a good pile of docs
and software
available. Disks tend to be pretty common, as they were used with
other systems.
Interdata 16-bit software, on the other hand, is non-existent, which is sad
because a number of collectors have model 70/74's or 7/16s and 8/16s
Do you know of any 1700 software that didn't come from Cyber Resources or
Doug Gwyn?
9:06 p.m.
On Jul 23, 2014, at 5:37 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 07/23/2014 02:04 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
I may still have my Varian manual, though I never used that machine.
CDC discussions can be found on a different list (?Controlfreaks?) which is mostly about
the mainframes but does touch on the 3000 and 1700 series as well.
paul
The comment that other things are hard to find
makes me wonder: what
about Philips minicomputers? Chances of finding them in the USA are
slim to none, but what about Europe? I did my first hands-on
programming on a 24 bit Philips mini (P9200 ???), at the Evoluon in
Eindhoven. It has some fascinating design aspects. I still have a
few pages of code, though no manuals or anything else.
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example, I've seen no discussion on
Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as a start.
24 Jul
24 Jul
12:55 a.m.
On 07/23/2014 06:06 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
CDC discussions can be found on a different list (?Controlfreaks?)
which is mostly about the mainframes but does touch on the 3000 and
1700 series as well.
I think you could call the 160A a "minicomputer".
Some of the CDC military stuff would almost certain qualify, though I
don't have any experience with that.
--Chuck
4:18 a.m.
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example,
I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as
a start.
A name that I remember from advertisements in the 1980s (I don't think I
ever encountered a machine) was Perkin Elmer, who made 32-bit minis.
Does anyone recall them? The Wikipedia article concentrates on the much
more recent history of the corporation, but it does seem that, like HP,
their computers were a spinoff of their scientific instruments.
Philip.
10:48 a.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
I remember reading an article in an old, old, old magazine that talked a
little bit about Perkin-Elmer computers but those that were being
referenced were little desktop UNIX machines, kind of reminiscent of a
Fortune 32:16 or something (IIRC??)... Maybe I am just getting my wires
crossed with the Fortune 32:16 itself, LOL. I never really knew of any
Perkin-Elmer minis, but from what I've read, apparently that was once
Interdata. My assumption then is that any P-E branded mini is simply a
descendent of the Interdata line?
I suppose the computer biz was just a distraction for P-E (as it was for,
say, Gould, Harris, etc); their primary line of business was producing
stuff like laboratory instruments (more for chemistry and biology labs than
HP's generally electronics-focused test gear), photolithography equipment,
military equipment, etc.
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:18 AM, Philip Belben <philip at axeside.co.uk> wrote:
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example,
I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on
TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as
a start.
A name that I remember from advertisements in the 1980s (I don't think I
ever encountered a machine) was Perkin Elmer, who made 32-bit minis. Does
anyone recall them? The Wikipedia article concentrates on the much more
recent history of the corporation, but it does seem that, like HP, their
computers were a spinoff of their scientific instruments.
Philip.
12:46 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
I just got a number of Perkin-Elmer machines from a recycler. The
cabinet is about the size of an IBM 5170. I also received monitors and
external drive cases with two 5 1/4" floppies and an ST-412 hard drive
in them. They were in a big console that looked like the bridge on the
Enterprise.
They were used along with the PDP-11/84s, TU91pluses, RA81's, and RX02's
I got for controller a semiconducter wafer fab setup.
Todd
* Sean Caron <scaron at umich.edu> [140724 11:06]:
I remember reading an article in an old, old, old
magazine that talked a
little bit about Perkin-Elmer computers but those that were being
referenced were little desktop UNIX machines, kind of reminiscent of a
Fortune 32:16 or something (IIRC??)... Maybe I am just getting my wires
crossed with the Fortune 32:16 itself, LOL. I never really knew of any
Perkin-Elmer minis, but from what I've read, apparently that was once
Interdata. My assumption then is that any P-E branded mini is simply a
descendent of the Interdata line?
I suppose the computer biz was just a distraction for P-E (as it was for,
say, Gould, Harris, etc); their primary line of business was producing
stuff like laboratory instruments (more for chemistry and biology labs than
HP's generally electronics-focused test gear), photolithography equipment,
military equipment, etc.
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:18 AM, Philip Belben <philip at axeside.co.uk> wrote:
> There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example, I've seen no
>> discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as
>> a start.
>>
>
> A name that I remember from advertisements in the 1980s (I don't think I
> ever encountered a machine) was Perkin Elmer, who made 32-bit minis. Does
> anyone recall them? The Wikipedia article concentrates on the much more
> recent history of the corporation, but it does seem that, like HP, their
> computers were a spinoff of their scientific instruments.
>
> Philip.
>
>
1:44 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
I just got a number of Perkin-Elmer machines from a
recycler. The
cabinet is about the size of an IBM 5170. I also received monitors and
external drive cases with two 5 1/4" floppies and an ST-412 hard drive
in them.
That sounds like my P-E 7700, a UNIX machine that sported 4 serial
ports on the back, and a local CRT/keyboard "console". ISTR the
ST-412 has a SASI bridge card on it. In 1985 it was one of the least
expensive ways to get a multi-user M68K UNIX box. System III, IIRC.
-ethan
2:08 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
* Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> [140724 13:45]:
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Todd Goodman <tsg
at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
Yes, these only have two serial ports on the back but they do have
blanks in the panel for two more.
Now I'm hoping the drives weren't wiped (but they probably were
considering the defense contractor it came from.)
Todd
I just got a number of Perkin-Elmer machines from
a recycler. The
cabinet is about the size of an IBM 5170. I also received monitors and
external drive cases with two 5 1/4" floppies and an ST-412 hard drive
in them.
That sounds like my P-E 7700, a UNIX machine that sported 4 serial
ports on the back, and a local CRT/keyboard "console". ISTR the
ST-412 has a SASI bridge card on it. In 1985 it was one of the least
expensive ways to get a multi-user M68K UNIX box. System III, IIRC.
-ethan
4:23 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Jul 24, 2014, at 09:46 , Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
I just got a number of Perkin-Elmer machines from a
recycler. The
cabinet is about the size of an IBM 5170. I also received monitors and
external drive cases with two 5 1/4" floppies and an ST-412 hard drive
in them. They were in a big console that looked like the bridge on the
Enterprise.
I'd love to see pictures of those. Do you think you got enough pieces to make
something work?
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
5:02 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
* Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> [140724 16:24]:
On Jul 24, 2014, at 09:46 , Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
I'll try to get some pictures up. Right now I only have them while
they're sitting on pallets but I'll try to get them out this weekend.
There should be enough to get something to work.
The recycler said the whole system was running right up until they
pulled it out. Though that doesn't mean things didn't get damaged when
being removed.
Unfortunately there's no power where they are at the moment so actually
checking the supplies and then powering them up will have to wait.
Todd
I just got a number of Perkin-Elmer machines from
a recycler. The
cabinet is about the size of an IBM 5170. I also received monitors and
external drive cases with two 5 1/4" floppies and an ST-412 hard drive
in them. They were in a big console that looked like the bridge on the
Enterprise.
I'd love to see pictures of those. Do you think you got enough pieces to make
something work?
5:47 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Jul 24, 2014, at 14:02 , Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
I'll try to get some pictures up. Right now I
only have them while
they're sitting on pallets but I'll try to get them out this weekend.
There should be enough to get something to work.
The recycler said the whole system was running right up until they
pulled it out. Though that doesn't mean things didn't get damaged when
being removed.
It sounds like you scored a neat pile of gear!
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
25 Jul
25 Jul
8:20 a.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
* Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> [140724 17:58]:
On Jul 24, 2014, at 14:02 , Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
I'm happy with it all though it certainly wasn't free!
Todd
I'll try to get some pictures up. Right now
I only have them while
they're sitting on pallets but I'll try to get them out this weekend.
There should be enough to get something to work.
The recycler said the whole system was running right up until they
pulled it out. Though that doesn't mean things didn't get damaged when
being removed.
It sounds like you scored a neat pile of gear!
24 Jul
24 Jul
5:47 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
F511-0285 / Text Processing - Disk 1
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 2014, at 09:46 , Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net> wrote:
I don't have the console (which sounds cool!) but I do have the
workstation version...
http://www.mynewoffice.com/pcmuseum/Concurent248.jpg
The screen has some input buttons on the bezel that applications can
render status-line text above for menu navigation.
I checked my media shelf... I have original media that I ought to
image. Looks like add-ons.
Box labelled "PERKIN ELMER / Series 7000 : Uniplus + System III / Text
Processing Extension"
Contents: 13 5.25" Dysan floppies w/hand written date 5/30/84
F511-0282 / Text Processing - Disk 1
F511-0283 / Text Processing - Disk 2
F511-0284 / Text Processing - Disk 3
F511-0285 / Spelling - Disk 1
F511-0286 / Spelling - Disk 2
F511-0287 / Spelling - Disk 3
F511-0288 / Manuals - Disk 1
F511-0289 / Manuals - Disk 2
F511-0290 / Manuals - Disk 3
F511-0291 / Manuals - Disk 4
F511-0292 / Manuals - Disk 5
(no F511-0293)
F511-0294 / SCCS DIsk 1
F511-0295 / SCCS DIsk 2
Blank box
Contents: 2 3M 5.25" diskettes, dated 12/10/84 w/license contract #
1of2 Uniplus System III - MPSC Driver Kit
2of2 Uniplus System III - MPSC Driver Kit
No idea where the OS install disks might be. They aren't in the
documentation binders or in these two library cases.
-ethan
I just got a number of Perkin-Elmer machines from
a recycler. The
cabinet is about the size of an IBM 5170. I also received monitors and
external drive cases with two 5 1/4" floppies and an ST-412 hard drive
in them. They were in a big console that looked like the bridge on the
Enterprise.
I'd love to see pictures of those. Do you think you got enough pieces to make
something work? 
11:10 a.m.
On Jul 24, 2014, at 4:18 AM, Philip Belben <philip at axeside.co.uk> wrote:
The only thing I remember about Perkin-Elmer was that they bought
Applied Biosystems, which made a number of pieces of equipment in
my father's Biopolymers lab in the '80s and '90s. Most of those
were controlled by micros of some sort, usually Macs in the case
of Hopkins.
- Dave
There were
lots of minicomputer makers. For example, I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as
a start.
A name that I remember from advertisements in the 1980s (I don't think I ever
encountered a machine) was Perkin Elmer, who made 32-bit minis. Does anyone recall them?
The Wikipedia article concentrates on the much more recent history of the corporation, but
it does seem that, like HP, their computers were a spinoff of their scientific
instruments. 
11:48 a.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On 24 July 2014 16:10, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
The only thing I remember about Perkin-Elmer was that
they bought
Applied Biosystems, which made a number of pieces of equipment in
my father's Biopolymers lab in the '80s and '90s. Most of those
were controlled by micros of some sort, usually Macs in the case
of Hopkins.
Weren't they the folks who ground the Hubble Space Telescope mirror,
incorrectly?
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this
sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan
Swift
11:58 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Philip Belben
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:18 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Re: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For example,
I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as
a start.
A name that I remember from advertisements in the 1980s (I don't think I
ever encountered a machine) was Perkin Elmer, who made 32-bit minis.
Does anyone recall them? The Wikipedia article concentrates on the much
more recent history of the corporation, but it does seem that, like HP,
their computers were a spinoff of their scientific instruments.
Philip.
I have a Perkin-Elmer "Super Series type ST" disk drive connected to my /05.
It has one fixed (non-removable) platter and a removable cartridge, which
looks like an RL02, but it is *not*. It is slightly smaller.
I have an other Perkin-Elmer disk dive, looking very similar to the one
connected to my 11/05, but this one is not hooked up. It also has a fixed
disk, but the removable pack for this drive is actually RL0 size compatible.
BTW, I also have the original documentation (1" stack B4), IIRC.
- Henk
12:13 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: Philip Belben
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:18 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Re: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
I definitely remember them, and yes, 32 bit minicomputers around the same time as early
VAX, Nova, Prime. But I don?t know anything else. Wikipedia says they were developed by
Interdata, which P-E acquired in 1973. And that SIMH supports these.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdata_7/32_and_8/32)
paul
There were lots of minicomputer makers. For
example, I've seen no
discussion on Varian minis and darned little on TI 990s or CDC 1700s, as
a start.
A name that I remember from advertisements in the 1980s (I don't think I
ever encountered a machine) was Perkin Elmer, who made 32-bit minis.
Does anyone recall them? The Wikipedia article concentrates on the much
more recent history of the corporation, but it does seem that, like HP,
their computers were a spinoff of their scientific instruments.
6:11 p.m.
The comment that other things are hard to find makes me wonder: what
about Philips minicomputers? Chances of finding them in the USA are
In the UK, the exist, but are rare. I own 3 of the 16 bit P800 family (A
P850, a P851 and a P854). I know htere are a few presereved in Continetal
Europe, but they seem to be a lot hardewr to find than DE, DG, or HP
machines.
-tony
23 Jul
23 Jul
5:56 p.m.
On 7/23/2014 12:54 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
The advantage of DEC is that they are well-known,
there are lot of
manuals, etc. So you will not have problems finding inforamtion on them
Tony is right - there is lots of information out there for DEC machines,
and a helpful enthusiast community. Another advantage - if you're
looking to buy something, it's possible to get a working PDP-11 system
without mortgaging your home :-) Sometimes you can find them at low or
no cost, although that seems to be more rare these days.
I also second the idea of having an idea what you want to do with the
machine. That way, you can decide what kind of system to look for. A
"minicomputer", depending on your definition, could fit on a desktop, or
might be the size of a refrigerator. This has space, power and weight
implications.
Good luck! I hope you find something fun.
- Earl
24 Jul
24 Jul
6:58 a.m.
Earl Evans wrote:
On 7/23/2014
12:54 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
The advantage of DEC is that they are well-known,
there are lot of
manuals, etc. So you will not have problems finding inforamtion on them
Tony is right - there is lots of information out there for DEC
machines, and a helpful enthusiast community. Another advantage - if
you're looking to buy something, it's possible to get a working PDP-11
system without mortgaging your home :-) Sometimes you can find them at
low or no cost, although that seems to be more rare these days.
I also second the idea of having an idea what you want to do with the
machine. That way, you can decide what kind of system to look for. A
"minicomputer", depending on your definition, could fit on a desktop,
or might be the size of a refrigerator. This has space, power and
weight implications.
6:21 p.m.
I also second the idea of having an idea what you want
to do with the
machine. That way, you can decide what kind of system to look for. A
I'll expend a little on that and give a personal view.
I am a hardware person, so yo me the attraction of a minicomputer is that
(at least i nthe machiens I like) the CPU is not one chip. It's lots of
ICs, often spread over several boards. So I can 'get inside' the CPU, I
can trace the microcode, watch data folowing between ALU and registers,
and so on. So _for me_ an LSI11 (or any of the later ASIC-based minis
from any manufactuer) is not really what I am looking
for.
YMMV, of course. which is qhy you must think of what you want ot do with
the machine, especially if you are paying real money for it.
For _my_ interest there are otehr machines that suit, although they are
not really minicomputers. The first is the HP9800 series of calculators
(HP9810, 9820, 9821, 9830). These use a 16 bit bit-serial processor,
built from about 80 TTL ICs. Although they are obviosuly a lot less
expandable than a minicomputer, and thye don't run complex operating
systems , etc, they are machines you can investigate tthe CPU operation
in.
The other machine is the ICL/3Rivers PERQ (if you are lucky enough to
find one!). This is a workstation. But the CPU is a board of over 250
ICs. Again, youc an 'get inside' it. This will run Unix, but is a lot
less expandable than a minicomputer. It also is one of the few machiens
you're liekly to see where hthe CPU microcode is loaded into RAM at
boot-up, and where the CPU is entirely gerneal-purpose [1] so you cna
redfine the insturcion set if you're so inclined.
[1] The VAX11/730 also loads the CPU microcode at power-up, but from what
I rememebr, ther eare some hardware features that optimise it for the VAX
instruction set. While it is possible to give it a differnet instruciton
set, I think it wopuld be a lot less efficient.
-tony
8:39 p.m.
I'll expend a little on that and give a personal view.
I am a hardware person, so yo me the attraction of a minicomputer is that
(at least i nthe machiens I like) the CPU is not one chip. It's lots of
ICs, often spread over several boards.
I imagine you must drool over a pdp11/20.
8:53 p.m.
I just got a VAX-11/730 recently. I haven't done much with it yet, but it's the
star of my retrocomputing collection!
I just saw this on eBay:
Hewlett Packard 3000 Series 58 Business Mainframe Computer System (32558A)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261542403429
Located in Ventura, CA. I haven't seen one of these before. I don't know how
flexible these guys are on their asking prices.
I'm not at the right coordinates in my area-time-money space to adopt this, but it
does stimulate my curiosity.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
9:22 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Jul 24, 2014 6:05 PM, "Mark J. Blair" <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I just got a VAX-11/730 recently. I haven't done much with it yet, but
it's
the star of my retrocomputing collection!
I just saw this on eBay:
Hewlett Packard 3000 Series 58 Business Mainframe Computer System (32558A)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261542403429
If you wanted an HP 3000 system for that sort of money you really should
have bought this system that was mentioned for sale by a member here
recently:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221492694713
10:41 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Jul 24, 2014, at 18:22 , Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> wrote:
If you wanted an HP 3000 system for that sort of money
you really should
have bought this system that was mentioned for sale by a member here
recently:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221492694713
Agreed! That system is really nice.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
9:26 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
Wow, that is quite a nice example of HP3000! Very well preserved. I always
wanted to get my hands on a little MPE machine to play with (though a bit
smaller than that one).
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I just got a VAX-11/730 recently. I haven't done
much with it yet, but
it's the star of my retrocomputing collection!
I just saw this on eBay:
Hewlett Packard 3000 Series 58 Business Mainframe Computer System (32558A)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261542403429
Located in Ventura, CA. I haven't seen one of these before. I don't know
how flexible these guys are on their asking prices.
I'm not at the right coordinates in my area-time-money space to adopt
this, but it does stimulate my curiosity.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
11:28 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Thu, 24 Jul 2014, Sean Caron wrote:
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Mark J. Blair
<nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I haven't seen one of those since 1987. I like the desktop form
factor, similar to the Series 48. Too bad it runs on 210V.
What I would really like to add to my collection is a Series 42. If
anyone has one to re-home, let me know.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
I just saw this on eBay:
Hewlett Packard 3000 Series 58 Business Mainframe Computer System (32558A)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261542403429
Located in Ventura, CA. I haven't seen one of these before. I don't know
how flexible these guys are on their asking prices.
Wow, that is quite a nice example of HP3000! Very well preserved. I always
wanted to get my hands on a little MPE machine to play with (though a bit
smaller than that one). 
25 Jul
25 Jul
10:21 a.m.
I remember that Christian Brothers College in Memphis, TN had a Perkin Elmer system, circa
1976-1977.? It was a "mini", but I recall it took up (with peripherals) at least
a couple of large racks on a raised floor in a heavily air-conditioned room.? It had a
disk drive the size of a small washing machine, with multi-platter removable disk packs
that were quite heavy to lift.? There were several ADM-3 terminals in the room for student
use, and also several card punches.? I never used the card punches, but perhaps that means
there was a card reader as well?? I was a kid at the time, and had more interest in the
AIM-65 in the lab across the hall, so I'm fuzzy on the details.? But If that was a
typical Perkin-Elmer, it would be more than many would be able to host.
I believe these machines were devloped by another company that was acquired by Perkin
Elmer.
Dave
On Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:16 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I just got a VAX-11/730 recently. I haven't done much with it yet, but it's the
star of my retrocomputing collection!
I just saw this on eBay:
Hewlett Packard 3000 Series 58 Business Mainframe Computer System (32558A)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261542403429
Located in Ventura, CA. I haven't seen one of these before. I don't know how
flexible these guys are on their asking prices.
I'm not at the right coordinates in my area-time-money space to adopt this, but it
does stimulate my curiosity.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
10:38 a.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
Yes, very nice 3000. I always liked the desk form-factor for the Series
44/48/58. Looking at the pictures also looks to have a complete set of CPU
cards and memory, along with a fair number of GICs (I/O channels for
Disc/Tape/Printers) and terminal channels (ATPs). I did not see a network
interface - those are fairly rare on Classic (16-bit) 3000s. Fixing the
chopped power cord and conversion to 120V I suspect are very doable.
You could (probably) hook this system up to a HPDrive Project (
http://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/) instance and have a very
sweet late-1970s to mid-1980s minicomputer timesharing system running MPE.
Cheers - Lee C.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I just got a VAX-11/730 recently. I haven't done
much with it yet, but
it's the star of my retrocomputing collection!
I just saw this on eBay:
Hewlett Packard 3000 Series 58 Business Mainframe Computer System (32558A)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261542403429
Located in Ventura, CA. I haven't seen one of these before. I don't know
how flexible these guys are on their asking prices.
I'm not at the right coordinates in my area-time-money space to adopt
this, but it does stimulate my curiosity.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
--
Lee Courtney
+1-650-704-3934 cell
5:47 p.m.
I just got a VAX-11/730 recently. I haven't done much with it yet, but
it's the star of my retrocomputing collection!
Many will disagree with me, but I prefer the 11/730 to the 11/750. The
reason is that the latter is almost all those DEC bipolar gate array
chips, whereas the 11/730 is unprotected PALs and 2901s (OK, a couple of
the gate arrays for memory ECC, but...).
-tony
9:39 p.m.
On Jul 25, 2014, at 14:47 , Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Many will disagree with me, but I prefer the 11/730 to
the 11/750. The
reason is that the latter is almost all those DEC bipolar gate array
chips, whereas the 11/730 is unprotected PALs and 2901s (OK, a couple of
the gate arrays for memory ECC, but...).
Interesting point. A friend of mine had both a 725 and a 730 back around 1990ish (sadly,
they were long gone by the time I got interested in having a VAX to call my own). One had
a bad PAL, but he could run either machine by swapping in the good PAL from the other
machine. :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
26 Jul
26 Jul
1:46 a.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be canceled becauseof bounces. I send the
confirmation back but it looks likesome bot is determined to drop me. I have no idea why
it wouldbounce. I have no filters on at all.What next?Dwight
2:14 a.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
From: dwight: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:46 PM
I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be canceled
becauseof bounces. I
send the confirmation back but it looks likesome bot is determined to drop me.
I have no idea why it wouldbounce. I have no filters on at all.What
next?Dwight
I get that too, along with multiple identical copies of messages. I had just
assumed there was some sort of entropy at large in the email universe. At least
cctalk lets me know it's having trouble. I worry that other senders might just
drop the mail.
I just do the confirmation over and over.
Vince
4:41 a.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: Vincent Slyngstad
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 8:14 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: bounces and canceling
From: dwight: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:46 PM
I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be canceled
becauseof bounces.
I send the confirmation back but it looks likesome bot is determined to
drop me. I have no idea why it wouldbounce. I have no filters on at
all.What next?Dwight
I get that too, along with multiple identical copies of messages. I had
just
assumed there was some sort of entropy at large in the email universe. At
least
cctalk lets me know it's having trouble. I worry that other senders might
just
drop the mail.
I just do the confirmation over and over.
Vince
Yes, I have had several bounce and cancelling emails too.
My amsat.org email account forwarding to my hotmail account neither
works anymore. I understand that (a part of) hotmail is on some block list.
Changing to an other email address is not my preferred solution, so I
guess I will click on the confirmation link every few weeks.
What bothers me more is that I have had emails via-via of people (radio
amateurs) that could not reach me via hotmail ...
- Henk
6:21 a.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
I get that too, along with multiple identical copies
of messages. I had
just
assumed there was some sort of entropy at large in the
email universe. At
least
cctalk lets me know it's having trouble. I worry
that other senders might
just
drop the mail.
I just do the confirmation over and over.
Vince
Yes, I have had several bounce and cancelling emails too.
My amsat.org email account forwarding to my hotmail account neither works
anymore. I understand that (a part of) hotmail is on some block list.
Changing to an other email address is not my preferred solution, so I
guess I will
click on the confirmation link every few weeks.
What bothers me more is that I have had emails via-via of people (radio
amateurs) that could not reach me via hotmail ...
- Henk
I've had the notification, and I'm sure there was little real bouncing from
my provider, they are rated the best provider for several years (in the NL).
What I noticed is, sometimes cctalk messages are placed in my spam account,
not much 1 or twice a month.
I wonder if there is a correlation between those placed in the spam account
and the bounce messages..
-Rik
9:11 a.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
snip snip
I've had the notification, and I'm sure there was little real bouncing
from
my provider, they are rated the best provider for several years (in the
NL).
What I noticed is, sometimes cctalk messages are placed in my spam
account,
not much 1 or twice a month.
I wonder if there is a correlation between those placed in the spam
account
and the bounce messages..
-Rik
I have the same provider, and got this cancellation message twice over a 3
week period.
No spam accoundt in use here...
Ed
--
Dit is een HTML vrije email / This is an HTML free email.
Zeg NEE tegen de 'slimme' meter.
1:34 p.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
> I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be
canceled becauseof
> bounces. [...]
Me too.
I just do the confirmation over and over.
I long ago scripted that. procmail is my friend:
# Try to auto-reenable those damn suspended subscriptions
:0 cD
* ^Subject: confirm [0-9a-f]*$
* ^Message-ID: <mailman
* ^X-Mailman-Version:
* ^X-List-Administrivia: yes
| /home/mouse/hacks/auto-reenable-mailman
auto-reenable-mailman is a shell script; I suspect some of you may be
interested in it, but it's mildly long, so, rather than dump it inline
here, output from "bzip2 | base64 -e" on it follows my signature.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B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==
29 Jul
29 Jul
1:54 p.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Slyngstad" <vrs at msn.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: bounces and canceling
just
From: dwight: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:46 PM
> I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be canceled becauseof
bounces. I
> send the confirmation back but it looks likesome
bot is determined to
drop me.
I have no idea
why it wouldbounce. I have no filters on at all.What
next?Dwight
I get that too, along with multiple identical copies of messages. I had assumed there was some sort of entropy at large in the
email universe. At
least
cctalk lets me know it's having trouble. I worry
that other senders might
just
drop the mail.
I just do the confirmation over and over.
Vince
I also got these a couple of weeks back. I assumed that Yahoo's mail servers
were playing up and just resubbed to the desired list. Just to be safe, I
did clean old some old emails from my Yahoo account just incase my mailbox
was getting too full - Yahoo normally send an email when that is the case.
So far I have no further issues.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
2:26 p.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
I've been getting these lately too and use Yahoo mail as well. Have for years. Digging
into it, it appears to me that Yahoo has started marking emails from the list as spam.
They all end up in my spam folder and I am constantly telling it they're not spam.
Been going on for a few months now.
David
www.trailingedge.com
On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 1:13 PM, Andrew Burton <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Slyngstad" <vrs at msn.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: bounces and canceling
just
From: dwight: Friday, July 25, 2014 10:46 PM
> I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be canceled becauseof
bounces. I
> send the confirmation back but it looks
likesome bot is determined to
drop me.
I have no
idea why it wouldbounce. I have no filters on at all.What
next?Dwight
I get that too, along with multiple identical copies of messages.? I had assumed there was some sort of entropy at large
in the email universe.? At
least
cctalk lets me know it's having trouble.? I
worry that other senders might
just
drop the mail.
I just do the confirmation over and over.
? ? Vince
I also got these a couple of weeks back. I assumed that Yahoo's mail servers
were playing up and just resubbed to the desired list. Just to be safe, I
did clean old some old emails from my Yahoo account just incase my mailbox
was getting too full - Yahoo normally send an email when that is the case.
So far I have no further issues.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
26 Jul
26 Jul
9:19 a.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
On 7/25/14 10:46 PM, dwight wrote:
I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be canceled
becauseof bounces.
There was a problem earlier this week that caused the machine that hosts things like
bitsavers and
I think the mailing list server to go down for an hour or two because it ran out of disk
space.
I've also noticed transient problems being able to log onto the mail server since Jay
switched to another provider.
12:25 p.m.
New subject: bounces and canceling
Sent, poorly, from my iPad.
On Jul 25, 2014, at 10:46 PM, dwight <dkelvey at
hotmail.com> wrote:
I am receiving notices that my cctalk will be canceled becauseof bounces. I send the
confirmation back but it looks likesome bot is determined to drop me. I have no idea why
it wouldbounce. I have no filters on at all.What next?Dwight
I've had that happen three times now also. Replying has worked so it's not too
much hassle.
Bob
4:39 p.m.
[VAX 11/730 is almsot all PALs]
Interesting point. A friend of mine had both a 725 and
a 730 back
around 1990ish (sadly, they were long gone by the time I got interested
in having a VAX to call my own). One had a bad PAL, but he could run
either machine by swapping in the good PAL from the other machine. :)
I cna't rememebr if the PAL equations are in any of tyhe puiblished
manuals, but I am darn sure that DEC relied only on waht H&H call
'security through sodler'.They did not blwo the security fuse of the PALs
in the 11/730. If you were prepared to desolder them and stick them in a
pgoramemr uou coudl read out the fuse map and recreat e the logic
equaitons.
-tony
6:57 p.m.
On 7/26/2014 1:39 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
[VAX 11/730 is almsot all PALs]
The source equations for the PLDs and the truth tables for the ROM are
included as schematic pages for the 11/780 and the 11/730.
I don't know how ECO's (if any) were managed - and not sure if the
equations on the schematic pages were kept up-to-date. I have a fuzzy
memory that the PLDs were socketed.
Rob.
Interesting point. A friend of mine had both a
725 and a 730 back
around 1990ish (sadly, they were long gone by the time I got interested
in having a VAX to call my own). One had a bad PAL, but he could run
either machine by swapping in the good PAL from the other machine. :)
I cna't rememebr if the PAL equations are in any of tyhe puiblished
manuals, but I am darn sure that DEC relied only on waht H&H call
'security through sodler'.They did not blwo the security fuse of the PALs
in the 11/730. If you were prepared to desolder them and stick them in a
pgoramemr uou coudl read out the fuse map and recreat e the logic
equaitons.
-tony
27 Jul
27 Jul
3:32 p.m.
I don't know how ECO's (if any) were managed -
and not sure if the
equations on the schematic pages were kept up-to-date. I have a fuzzy
memory that the PLDs were socketed.
They wern't in my 11/730. I desolded and read out an example of every one
of them (what I mean by that is in some cases a PAL is repeated, not just
the type of blank chip but also the programming. In that case I only
desodlered oen fo them).
DEC didn't use IC sockets much. Maybe for reliability reasons, maybe
becasue there wasn't that much space ebtween adjacent boards in the
backplane [1]. I rememebr an Omnibus EPROM board where al lthe EPROMs
(1702As) were soldered in. Of course in-system programmign fo those is
impossible you have to put silly voltages on the data pins, etc. So what
DEC did was to run al the RPOM conenctions edge fingers on the top at one
side of the board, all the signals to link to them to fingers on the
other side fo the board. For normal operation you fitted jumper block
conenctors, for programmign I guess you linked a programemr to said top
conenctors. That's how much DEC avoided DIL sockets...
[1] Nothing to do with DEC, but when workign on my HP11305 disk cotnroller
I noticed that if you socketed 2 of the 5 microcode PROMs they would foul
the mains transformer. So my plan was to desolder the ROMS to dump them,
put sockets for the 3 I could, and alas, solder the last 2 back in place.
Only after removign them di I notice that the holes for those last 2 PROMS
(and AFAIK only those 2 ICs) were massive. Large enough to fit those
flsuh-with-the-board socket contacts. Which of course I ordered and
fitted. Yes, HP had actualy thoguth you might want to socket the microcode
ROMs..
-tony
25 Jul
25 Jul
5:43 p.m.
I'll expend a little on that and give a personal view.
I am a hardware person, so yo me the attraction of a minicomputer is that
(at least i nthe machiens I like) the CPU is not one chip. It's lots of
ICs, often spread over several boards.
I imagine you must drool over a pdp11/20. 
24 Jul
24 Jul
8:43 p.m.
On 07/23/2014 02:29 AM, Steven Landon wrote:
Hey guys, kind of burnt out on the micro computer
stuff,
Generally, you can't get into a minicomputer and expect it still to work,
some of the boards or power supplies would have to be removed in order to
create space. What you need is a mainframe. ;)
10:53 p.m.
> Hey guys, kind of burnt out on the micro
computer stuff,
On Thu, 24 Jul 2014, Jules Richardson wrote:
Generally, you can't get into a minicomputer and
expect it still to work,
some of the boards or power supplies would have to be removed in order to
create space. What you need is a mainframe. ;)
At last, somebody finally answers the question.
Is that the definitive differentiation between a mini and a mainframe?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
11:06 p.m.
On Jul 24, 2014, at 19:53 , Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
I like it!
Mainframe: A computer with enough empty interior space in operable configuration to hold
an average adult human. :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
> Hey guys,
kind of burnt out on the micro computer stuff,
On Thu, 24 Jul 2014, Jules
Richardson wrote:
Generally, you can't get into a minicomputer
and expect it still to work,
some of the boards or power supplies would have to be removed in order to
create space. What you need is a mainframe. ;)
At last, somebody finally answers the question.
Is that the definitive differentiation between a mini and a mainframe? 
11:31 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
Mainframe: A computer with enough empty interior space
in operable configuration to hold an average adult human. :)
Hmm... does "interior" mean only the interior of actual cabinetry?
[I imagine that on this list, many participants will know exactly why
I'm asking that.]
11:54 p.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On Jul 24, 2014, at 20:31 , Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
Hmm... does "interior" mean only the
interior of actual cabinetry?
[I imagine that on this list, many participants will know exactly why
I'm asking that.]
I suppose that vacuum tubes (valves, for our UK friends) on open relay racks are also
acceptable. :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
25 Jul
25 Jul
12:42 a.m.
New subject: Looking to get into a Mini Computer, PDP or something Like that
On 07/24/2014 08:31 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Mark J. Blair
<nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
Dunno--but I've had the experience of walking around the inside and
through a computer.
I think it was about 1973 or 74, a friend of mine had taken a job with
Honeywell in Phoenix (the old GE computer plant--there were still a few
old bits of GE mainframes left around). At any rate, the wizards at
Honeywell were experimenting with direct water cooling--chilled water
was piped (using clear/translucent plastic tubing) around open racks of
boards where it contacted copper diaphragms which, in turn, contacted
components needing cooling. The whole affair was in an open-topped
cabinet affair perhaps 10 feet on a side. You entered through a
doorway, where you had easy access to the racks.
I was given to understand that algae was a problem with the setup.
--Chuck
Mainframe: A computer with enough empty interior
space in operable configuration to hold an average adult human. :)
Hmm... does "interior" mean only the interior of actual cabinetry?
[I imagine that on this list, many participants will know exactly why
I'm asking that.]
24 Jul
24 Jul
11:41 p.m.
On 07/24/2014 08:06 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Mainframe: A computer with enough empty interior space
in operable configuration to hold an average adult human. :)
Well, the original request was for someone "looking to get into a Mini
Computer", wasn't it? A big mini might work, but it'd be a tight
squeeze. Definitely a mainframe...
--Chuck
25 Jul
25 Jul
12:55 a.m.
Mainframe: A computer with enough empty interior space
in operable configura$
In a microcomputer, you can lose a screw.
In a minicomputyer, you can lose a screwdriver.
In a mainframe, you can lose a service technician.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
12:58 a.m.
On 7/24/2014 10:55 PM, Mouse wrote:
Just one?
Mainframe: A
computer with enough empty interior space in operable configura$
In a microcomputer, you can lose a screw.
In a minicomputyer, you can lose a screwdriver.
In a mainframe, you can lose a service technician. /~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
6 a.m.
Generally, you
can't get into a minicomputer and expect it still to work,
some of the boards or power supplies would have to be removed in order to
create space. What you need is a mainframe. ;)
At last, somebody finally answers the question.
Is that the definitive differentiation between a mini and a mainframe?
11:56 a.m.
> Is that the definitive differentiation between a
mini and a mainframe?
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014, Philip Belben wrote:
I don't know if there was ever a definitive
difference. I expect
different manufacturers used different definitions.
Yes, it was a rhetorical question. It is a vague term CREATED by
marketing people with little technical background. It conveys a sense of
"smaller", but has never been definitively defined, nor even specified in
what dimension(s) it is "smaller".
My personal one, which I think I got from a marketing
leaflet for the
IBM 9370, is that a mainframe requires a computer room, while a
minicomputer shares a room with other equipment (office desks with
terminals, machine tools it controls, or whatever).
Much like, "a microcomputer can be carried; a minicomputer requires
handtruck(s); a mainframe requires a forklift and a union moving crew"
This is not to say that some users didn't put
their minicomputer(s) in a
separate room; but the computers didn't require it.
and mainframes sometimes
had other stuff in the room. I spent a few years
in building 26 at Goddard Space Flight Center. While it might not meet
many modern definigions, in those days both the 7094 and the 360 in the
center room were considered mainframes. But it was a big room, and had an
entire keypunch department in it, along with a tape library, and other
goodies. I spent a lot of time manually digitizing data with a Gerber
Data Digitizer (a giant etch-a-sketch wired to an 026 keypunch)
Yes, EVERY "definition" of "mainframe/minicomputer/microcomputer" has
exceptions. Often, the "definition" is merely a LIST of characteristics,
all of which CORRELATE, but none of which are essentially defining the
categoryt. And, of course, any time that there is more than one
characteristic, OR if that characteristic is merely correlated, then there
are going to be exceptions.
Some of the characteristics are technical, such as construction methods of
the CPU, word length, speed, amount of memory or storage (those
characteristics, of course, get obsoleted and blown away by Moore's law -
the thing in my pocket is NOT a "mainframe")
Although the term LOOKS like a technical classification, it isn't. It was
created by marketing, to convey a feeling. What constitutes a "compact"
car, or a "sports" car? (Don't you hate rhetorical questions?)
Therefore, the most solid definitions end up being the non-technical ones!
price, weight, administrative accounting, staffing, support systems,
hurdles to personal ownership, interest generated and effect on
relationships with neighbors and law enforcement, etc.
The most extreme cases end up being like owning your own 737 or F15.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:25 p.m.
Philip Belben wrote:
My personal one, which I think I got from a marketing
leaflet for the
IBM 9370, is that a mainframe requires a computer room, while a
minicomputer shares a room with other equipment (office desks with
terminals, machine tools it controls, or whatever).
This is not to say that some users didn't put their minicomputer(s) in a
separate room; but the computers didn't require it.
You can lose a screw in a micro. You can lose a screwdriver in a mini.
You can lose a service engineer in a mainframe.
Peace... Sridhar
2:48 p.m.
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Philip Belben wrote:
You can lose an entire service team in a SAGE.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
My personal one, which I think I got from a
marketing leaflet for the
IBM 9370, is that a mainframe requires a computer room, while a
minicomputer shares a room with other equipment (office desks with
terminals, machine tools it controls, or whatever).
This is not to say that some users didn't put their minicomputer(s) in a
separate room; but the computers didn't require it.
You can lose a screw in a micro. You can lose a screwdriver in a mini.
You can lose a service engineer in a mainframe.
5:44 p.m.
On 07/23/2014 02:29 AM, Steven Landon wrote:
Actually, if you pulled the various units out o ntheir slides (and
stabilised the rack so it didn't fall over) I reckon I could (jsut) get
inside an H960 with the machine still running...
-tony
Hey guys, kind of burnt out on the micro
computer stuff,
Generally, you can't get into a minicomputer and expect it still to work,
some of the boards or power supplies would have to be removed in order to
create space. What you need is a mainframe. ;)
3588
days inactive
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73 comments
36 participants
participants (36)
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