12 Jan
2017
12 Jan
'17
12:35 p.m.
Hi Everyone!
I know this is a bit of a personal question, so please feel free to ignore
this email!
If you're willing to answer it would also be interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
For me, the most I've spent on a single computer is $2,000 for a Rev 0
Apple II around 3 years ago, I spent that much because I had wanted an
original Apple II for so long (not plus or E) and this one was so clean and
perfect! I cannot think of a time when I will sell it!
Can't wait to hear your answers :) :)
_>Andy
12 Jan
12 Jan
12:46 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:35 PM, Andy Cloud <r3trohub at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone!
I know this is a bit of a personal question, so please feel free to ignore
this email!
If you're willing to answer it would also be interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
For me, the most I've spent on a single computer is $2,000 for a Rev 0
Apple II around 3 years ago, I spent that much because I had wanted an
original Apple II for so long (not plus or E) and this one was so clean and
perfect! I cannot think of a time when I will sell it!
Can't wait to hear your answers :) :)
Also, how long did you hide the purchase from the spouse?
-- Charles
12:52 p.m.
Haha! Great question - I primed her with shoes before the purchase then
casually told her I had just bought a $2,000 computer, she tried to be
angry but she got she shoes she'd always wanted so it nutralized it :D
_>Andy
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 at 20:46, Charles Anthony <charles.unix.pro at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:35 PM, Andy Cloud
<r3trohub at gmail.com> wrote:
Also, how long did you hide the purchase from the spouse?
-- Charles
Hi Everyone!
I know this is a bit of a personal question, so
please feel free to
ignore
this email!
If you're willing to answer it would also be
interesting to know what
drove
you to spend as much as you did on that
particular computer?
For me, the most I've spent on a single
computer is $2,000 for a Rev 0
Apple II around 3 years ago, I spent that much
because I had wanted an
original Apple II for so long (not plus or E) and
this one was so clean
and
perfect! I cannot think of a time when I will
sell it!
Can't wait to hear your answers :) :)
12:47 p.m.
I think the most expensive machine I ever bought (with my own money)
was a VAX-11/725 in 1986. $4000. I did it, in part because DEC was
eliminating free license transferrals with after-market hardware
sales. It looked like my cheapest option to have my own VAX, and for
a time, it was.
https://books.google.com/books?id=nI091j0HhhwC&lpg=PA7&ots=qK0LibWv…
If only I had a good option (i.e., under $500, and preferably under
$300) for a disk for that thing that isn't the RC25. :-P
Runner-up is probably an Amiga 3000 purchased at the launch for full
price (minus a trade-in discount on an old A1000).
-ethan
12:51 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Andy Cloud <r3trohub at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone!
I know this is a bit of a personal question, so please feel free to ignore
this email!
If you're willing to answer it would also be interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
For me, the most I've spent on a single computer is $2,000 for a Rev 0
Apple II around 3 years ago, I spent that much because I had wanted an
original Apple II for so long (not plus or E) and this one was so clean and
perfect! I cannot think of a time when I will sell it!
Can't wait to hear your answers :) :)
_>Andy
I am sure you did not mean to cause offence but I don't that if this is an
appropriate question to ask here. At least not on classiccmp. But I
guess we'll find out what others think. I don't want to start a flame war
either, just stating my friendly opinion.
b
12:56 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:51 PM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
I am sure you did not mean to cause offence but I
don't that if this is an
appropriate question to ask here. At least not on classiccmp. But I
guess we'll find out what others think. I don't want to start a flame war
either, just stating my friendly opinion.
I'm sure there are people who are offended and/or horrified by the
question. The number of responses (or lack thereof) will likely
indicate the size of that pool.
-ethan
1 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:51 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sure you did not mean to cause offence but I don't that if this is an
> appropriate question to ask here.
If someone paid a large sum, especially recently, they might not care
to disclose the details. In my case, if I tell you I bought a
VAX-11/725 in November, 1986, you can find, without too much digging,
how much Newman Computer and all the other resellers were getting for
them. If I tell you I bought an Amiga 3000 when they launched, that
too is not a secret - and it's worth a whole lot less now.
I'm positive not everyone wants to reply for any variety of reasons.
-ethan
1:13 p.m.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I'm sure there are people who are offended and/or
horrified by the
question. The number of responses (or lack thereof) will likely
indicate the size of that pool.
My upper limit has been at $800 surprisingly often.
After I purchased the "Technical Reference Manual",
I think that my largest single expense ever for a computer was $1380? for
5150 in 1981, followed almost immediately by about $600 for CGA and FDC.
RAM, drives, monitor, etc. were all same as TRS80 stuff that I had in
bulk.
1:08 p.m.
$15,000 for a used Mekel microfiche scanner in the early-2000's
It turned out to be just past prototype stage, was missing the pneumatic fiche handler
and never really got it working at production volumes. The small number of fiche scans
on bitsavers from around then was the sum total of the output.
I scrapped it last summer.
I've probably spent more money trying to deal with scanning microfiche than on any
single
project beyond acquiring documents to scan.
On 1/12/17 12:35 PM, Andy Cloud wrote:
If you're willing to answer it would also be
interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
1:08 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
$15,000 for a used Mekel microfiche scanner in the
early-2000's
Oof!
It turned out to be just past prototype stage, was
missing the pneumatic fiche handler
and never really got it working at production volumes. The small number of fiche scans
on bitsavers from around then was the sum total of the output.
Bummer.
I've probably spent more money trying to deal with
scanning microfiche than on any single
project beyond acquiring documents to scan.
If you or anyone ever comes up with a solution, like many of us, I
have kilograms of the stuff - DEC and IBM for me, mostly mid-1980s.
Probably very little if any of it unique, but if I really need to look
up the engineering docs for a Unibus peripheral or want to browse VMS
source code prior to 5.0, there it is.
-ethan
1:29 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
$15,000 for a used Mekel microfiche scanner in the
early-2000's
I have a Mekel M565 and an M525, with the greyscale interface card,
sitting in my office. They were a parting gift from my boss when we closed
the old company down. They get periodic use, though the scan element on
the 565 has seen better days.
It turned out to be just past prototype stage, was missing the pneumatic
fiche handler
and never really got it working at production volumes. The small number of
fiche scans
on bitsavers from around then was the sum total of the output.
I never found the pneumatic loader to be reliable enough to be useful.
Even when we were running our 565 eight hours a day, we hand loaded
everything.
The most I, personally, have spent on computer gear was probably the $25
I gave for my microVAX-II back in 1999 or 2000. That was the same auction
where I bought a pallet of HP work stations for $25.
--Shaun, k0per
4:03 p.m.
I find generally I haven't paid too much for the gear I've got.
However, it's not the initial payment, it's the shipping (huge when your
talking about New Zealand from anywhere), and then the bits and pieces you
might have to buy to repair/restore the said item. These two incidentals
often cost more than the computer itself!
Terry (Tez)
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Shaun Halstead <shaunhalstead at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Al Kossow <aek at
bitsavers.org> wrote:
$15,000 for a used Mekel microfiche scanner in
the early-2000's
I have a Mekel M565 and an M525, with the greyscale interface card,
sitting in my office. They were a parting gift from my boss when we closed
the old company down. They get periodic use, though the scan element on
the 565 has seen better days.
It turned out to be just past prototype stage, was missing the pneumatic
fiche handler
and never really got it working at production volumes. The small number
of
fiche scans
on bitsavers from around then was the sum total of the output.
I never found the pneumatic loader to be reliable enough to be useful.
Even when we were running our 565 eight hours a day, we hand loaded
everything.
The most I, personally, have spent on computer gear was probably the $25
I gave for my microVAX-II back in 1999 or 2000. That was the same auction
where I bought a pallet of HP work stations for $25.
--Shaun, k0per
5:55 p.m.
Well, in 1986, I paid something like $6700 for a KA630-AA
(UVax-II CPU board).
I got an Andromeda disk controller (MFM hard disk + floppy)
and ran pirated VMS off a 40 MB drive. Slowly upgraded it
all to a VaxStation II, then VaxStation II GPX (color
graphics), added a bunch of tape drives.
I kept it running until 2007, when the hard drive croaked.
By that time I had a cast-off SCSI 4 GB drive.
Jon
6:37 p.m.
Hmmm. Well, in 1985 I spent something like $6500 or $7000 on a complete Mac 512k system.
Ok, the box itself was only $2795 or something like that but it was all of the other stuff
like the software, printer, disk drive, modem, numeric keyboard that added up. I still
have the receipt somewhere in my office.
Rich Cini
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 12, 2017, at 8:55 PM, Jon Elson <elson at
pico-systems.com> wrote:
Well, in 1986, I paid something like $6700 for a KA630-AA (UVax-II CPU board).
I got an Andromeda disk controller (MFM hard disk + floppy) and ran pirated VMS off a 40
MB drive. Slowly upgraded it all to a VaxStation II, then VaxStation II GPX (color
graphics), added a bunch of tape drives.
I kept it running until 2007, when the hard drive croaked. By that time I had a cast-off
SCSI 4 GB drive.
Jon
6:49 p.m.
I agree with Terry. It's not just the initial cost, but the shipping,
blood, sweat, tears, and pushing my mind, spine, etc to the limits.
I don't usually put over a few thousand into one toy, but have gone way
past that for packages.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Rich Cini <rich.cini at verizon.net> wrote:
Hmmm. Well, in 1985 I spent something like $6500 or
$7000 on a complete
Mac 512k system. Ok, the box itself was only $2795 or something like that
but it was all of the other stuff like the software, printer, disk drive,
modem, numeric keyboard that added up. I still have the receipt somewhere
in my office.
Rich Cini
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 12, 2017, at 8:55 PM, Jon Elson <elson
at pico-systems.com> wrote:
Well, in 1986, I paid something like $6700 for a KA630-AA (UVax-II CPU
board).
I got an Andromeda disk controller (MFM hard disk
+ floppy) and ran
pirated VMS off a 40 MB drive. Slowly upgraded it all to a
VaxStation II,
then VaxStation II GPX (color graphics), added a bunch of tape drives.
I kept it running until 2007, when the hard drive croaked. By that time
I had a
cast-off SCSI 4 GB drive.
Jon
7:12 p.m.
On 01/12/2017 08:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Well, in 1986, I paid something like $6700 for a
KA630-AA (UVax-II CPU
board).
I got an Andromeda disk controller (MFM hard disk + floppy) and ran
pirated VMS off a 40 MB drive. Slowly upgraded it all to a VaxStation
II, then VaxStation II GPX (color graphics), added a bunch of tape
drives.
I kept it running until 2007, when the hard drive croaked. By that
time I had a cast-off SCSI 4 GB drive.
Jon
;)
MITS Altair December 1974, $1183. Less than two years later NS* Horizon
chassis as I already had disk and controller
and CPU as piecemeal upgrades to the Altair. Last was the AmproLB+
purchased new. I retain all of them and the
NS* and AmproLB+ are still used.
Since then I've acquired many machines but none cost more than local travel.
The most expensive single CPU chip was the CD1802 for my ELF. Spent 35$
at Schewber for 2 CPU, and
2 1852. Most expensive disk would be the Teltek S100 controller for
ST506 (controller in NS* disk still good)
that was 800$ in 1980.
Most expensive terminal was the ASR33 followed by H19, I gave the ASR-33
to the RCM still have the H19.
Other odd hardware I still have and bought new SWPC CT1024 kit
terminal, with LK01 keyboard.
Processor Tech VDM-1 in a Netronics Explorer 85 (still running).
Most expensive software MITS 8K BASIC on cassette due to bugs and
general uselessness, still have it.
It was also costly in terms of time to get it to load on the nth try.
Best software was Lifeboat CP/M-1.4
for NS* followed by CP/M-V2.2 (my bios) and Vedit. The most unusual and
best learning tool was UCSD
Pascal for NS*. The cheapest and really useful was JRT Pascal.
Longest lived in use other hardware is printers, My LA100 (new in the
mid 80s), HP 4L Laser, still running
from new, and Epson LQ570 dot matrix as they all talk
to systems that
are NOT x86 PCs (Robin aka
VT180 is a PC).
Other odd stuff is Digital Research Display manager for CP/M 80 (GSX).
DEC Grey (VMS-v5) and
Orange (RT11-v5) walls. Pathworks for VAX and PC. Also both Bytes with
the FLOPPY ROM and the later
PAPER BYTES. Imagewise screen capture with camera.
Oddest hacked up junk... LP25 DAFU hacked up to make it a stand alone
controller (microcoded pre bit slice).
That would lead to hacking a RX01 control board (one of the two in RX01
the other was the drive electronics
position drive, read analog, and head drive) hacked as a FM (Single
density) 8" controller, very odd instruction
set. It was never used for a DEC system and was interfaced to a Z80 as
two disk drives.
For plain rare, DEC Gigolo board for Qbus (PDP11 or VAX) it was a multi
channel sound card. Not all that
many made and none sold. It was for trade shows and all.
Allison
1:14 p.m.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Andy Cloud wrote:
If you're willing to answer it would also be
interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
I got in a bidding war with someone and ended up paying $330 for six Onyx2
racks from Boeing surplus about ten years ago. Most of the graphics
modules were toast and a bunch of the node boards failed out, but the rest
of the compute modules were ok. At one point I managed to get five racks
working when CrayLinked together before it all went to custard (lost a
power supply and my system disk in short succession).
They sure look good, though.
http://www.kiwigeek.com/galleries//GeekPala-Dece2015/DSC_1871.JPG
- JP
5:14 p.m.
If you're willing to answer it would also be
interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
The most I spent personally was a bit over $10,000 for my personal POWER6
server. I was actually ready to buy a brand new POWER7 (which would probably
have crossed the $15K mark all loaded), but no IBM VAR would take my money
because I don't do service contracts, so I bought used from a company in
Minnesota. Later on I got the HMC for it also, so I guess it's been around
$11,000+ all in.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- "My inner geek can beat up your inner geek." -------------------------------
13 Jan
13 Jan
9:49 a.m.
tor 2017-01-12 klockan 20:35 +0000 skrev Andy Cloud:
Hi Everyone!
I know this is a bit of a personal question, so please feel free to ignore
this email!
If you're willing to answer it would also be interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
For me, the most I've spent on a single computer is $2,000 for a Rev 0
Apple II around 3 years ago, I spent that much because I had wanted an
original Apple II for so long (not plus or E) and this one was so clean and
perfect! I cannot think of a time when I will sell it!
Can't wait to hear your answers :) :)
_>Andy
My Sun 2/120 is such an example:
8000 :- swedish crowns and
4000:- for a CDC 300 MB WREN disk from the US (this in early 1991.)
so lets say 1500 US $
The disk didn't work because it is embedded SCSI but SunOS 2 (and 3) is
basically only SMD and MFM (or ESDI) thru a disk controller.
The machine is still very complete :
full amount of RAM (4 MB)
QIC tape with controller
smd card
keyboard
mouse
original SUn screen
10:05 a.m.
On 2017-01-12 5:35 PM, Andy Cloud wrote:
Hi Everyone!
I know this is a bit of a personal question, so please feel free to ignore
this email!
If you're willing to answer it would also be interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
For me, the most I've spent on a single computer is $2,000 for a Rev 0
Apple II around 3 years ago, I spent that much because I had wanted an
original Apple II for so long (not plus or E) and this one was so clean and
perfect! I cannot think of a time when I will sell it!
Can't wait to hear your answers :) :)
_>Andy
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial
or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of
feet of bromide paper through it.
The machine itself is actually available in Sydney NSW Australia for
anyone who would like to preserve it.
--Toby
10:16 a.m.
On 1/13/17 10:05 AM, Toby Thain wrote:
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter
(used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of feet of bromide
paper through it.
The machine itself is actually available in Sydney NSW Australia for anyone who would
like to preserve it.
--Toby
While trying to get the Compugraphic MCS Powerview simulated in MAME (specifically trying
to find a keyboard), I'm
finding a lot of dead trails to phototypesetters.
A friend in the business got a good laugh when I said I was looking for parts.
Someone should document the L100, but it isn't going to be me :P
2:24 p.m.
On 01/13/2017 12:16 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 1/13/17 10:05 AM, Toby Thain wrote:
> AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
>
>
I have a laser photoplotter I built a long time ago to make
circuit board artwork. It does 1000 x 1000 DPI via a raster
process, wrapping the film around a drum. After moving all
the conversion software over to Linux, it occurred to me
that it might not be hard to convert some raw pixel image
format produced by one of the PostScript converters to the
format for my photoplotter. it was about a one hour
exercise to get it working!
Not exactly a one button operation to get images, what with
all the darkroom processing, but I might use it some day. I
mostly use it now to make solder stencils for board
manufacturing.
Jon
2:52 p.m.
On 2017-01-13 7:24 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
On 01/13/2017 12:16 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
I remember you mentioning on the list before. Would make a nice hackaday
writeup :-)
--Toby
On 1/13/17 10:05 AM, Toby Thain wrote:
> AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
>
>
I have a laser photoplotter I built a long time ago to make circuit
board artwork. It does 1000 x 1000 DPI via a raster process, wrapping
the film around a drum. After moving all the conversion software over
to Linux, it occurred to me that it might not be hard to convert some
raw pixel image format produced by one of the PostScript converters to
the format for my photoplotter. it was about a one hour exercise to get
it working!
Not exactly a one button operation to get images, what with all the
darkroom processing, but I might use it some day. I mostly use it now
to make solder stencils for board manufacturing.
Jon
4:07 p.m.
On 01/13/2017 04:52 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
On 2017-01-13 7:24 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
Oh, geez! I'm terrible at documenting my own stuff! I do
have a page on my web site about it.
hack - a - DAY?? It took me about 10 years to go from first
tinkering to a working machine.
Jon
On 01/13/2017 12:16 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
I remember you mentioning on the list before. Would make a
nice hackaday writeup :-)
On 1/13/17 10:05 AM, Toby Thain wrote:
> AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter
> (used).
>
>
I have a laser photoplotter I built a long time ago to
make circuit
board artwork. It does 1000 x 1000 DPI via a raster
process, wrapping
the film around a drum. After moving all the conversion
software over
to Linux, it occurred to me that it might not be hard to
convert some
raw pixel image format produced by one of the PostScript
converters to
the format for my photoplotter. it was about a one hour
exercise to get
it working!
Not exactly a one button operation to get images, what
with all the
darkroom processing, but I might use it some day. I
mostly use it now
to make solder stencils for board manufacturing. 
3:14 p.m.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
I have some circuit boards out of a 1980s Intergraph photoplotter, and I
could probably manage to get the laser and such from it as well. When it
was operational, it was also used to make PCB artwork.
I'd be interested in seeing some pictures of your photoplotter, if you have
a chance. Now with the idea of direct toner transfer with modern laser
printers, I can see bringing a darkroom into it as being a bit of a hassle.
But still, quite cool.
Kyle
> I have a laser photoplotter I built a long
time ago to make circuit
board artwork. It does 1000 x 1000 DPI via a raster
process, wrapping the
film around a drum. After moving all the conversion software over to
Linux, it occurred to me that it might not be hard to convert some raw
pixel image format produced by one of the PostScript converters to the
format for my photoplotter. it was about a one hour exercise to get it
working!
Not exactly a one button operation to get images, what with all the
darkroom processing, but I might use it some day. I mostly use it now to
make solder stencils for board manufacturing.
4:10 p.m.
On 01/13/2017 05:14 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing some pictures of your
photoplotter, if you have a chance. Now with the idea of
direct toner transfer with modern laser printers, I can
see bringing a darkroom into it as being a bit of a hassle.
See
http://pico-systems.com/photoplot.html
The picture shows the old version, but most of it is the
same. The Beagle plus an interface board becomes an
identical drop-in replacement for the ISA bus DMA card that
used to run the thing.
I wrote a program for the Beagle's PRU processor to imitate
the DMA card's functions, and also unpack run-length encoded
data on the fly.
Jon
10:17 a.m.
On Jan 13, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Toby Thain <toby at
telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
...
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of feet of bromide
paper through it.
Neat! By the standards of the time, those were not really high image quality, but
definitely adequate and successful for newspaper work. I remember working with them in
the early 1980s.
paul
11 a.m.
On 2017-01-13 3:17 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
quality, but
definitely adequate and successful for newspaper work. I
remember working with them in the early 1980s.
Even an L100 is very high quality for text work (anything above 1270dpi
has diminished returns for text).
But unsuitable for quality halftones and 4-colour process, obviously.
However, soon afterwards I had the opportunity to work with _allegedly_
the first PostScript DRUM imagesetter imported to Australia: A
Scangraphic. An _extremely_ well engineered box both in hardware and
software. Capable of very high precision separations. I've rarely had
the pleasure of using such excellent equipment.
--Toby
On Jan 13, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Toby Thain <toby
at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
...
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of feet of bromide
paper through it.
Neat! By the standards of the time, those were not really high image
paul
11:02 a.m.
On 2017-01-13 3:17 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
quality, but
definitely adequate and successful for newspaper work. I
remember working with them in the early 1980s.
Yes, its primary job was newspaper galley setting when I bought it, but
I did bureau work on the side. Even some negatives of questionable
density ;)
--Toby
On Jan 13, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Toby Thain <toby
at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
...
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of feet of bromide
paper through it.
Neat! By the standards of the time, those were not really high image
paul
12:19 p.m.
On Jan 13, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Toby Thain <toby at
telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
On 2017-01-13 3:17 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Yes, its primary job was newspaper galley setting when I bought it, but I did
bureau work on the side. Even some negatives of questionable density ;)
The quality issue I remembered was somewhat jaggy outlines, even though the scan
resolution was entirely adequate. It was the first outline based typesetter I've
seen, and you could tell from the film -- but not from newsprint -- that the outline
shapes weren't quite fine enough. It's possible I'm remembering wrong and
that was the Linotron 300 that had this issue. Perhaps so, the dates for PostScript
don't quite fit the dates when I was doing this stuff.
paul
On Jan 13, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Toby Thain <toby
at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
...
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of feet of bromide
paper through it.
Neat! By the standards of the time, those were not really high image
quality, but definitely adequate and successful for newspaper work. I
remember working with them in the early 1980s.
1:01 p.m.
On 2017-01-13 5:19 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
though the scan
resolution was entirely adequate. It was the first
outline based typesetter I've seen, and you could tell from the film --
but not from newsprint -- that the outline shapes weren't quite fine
enough. It's possible I'm remembering wrong and that was the Linotron
300 that had this issue. Perhaps so, the dates for PostScript don't
quite fit the dates when I was doing this stuff.
That machine was switchable 1270/635/317 dpi. I never saw such an issue
with the L100 at 1270dpi. It was as good as you could expect from a
capstan machine.
--Toby
On Jan 13, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Toby Thain <toby
at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
On 2017-01-13 3:17 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Yes, its primary job was newspaper galley setting when I bought it, but I did
bureau work on the side. Even some negatives of questionable density ;)
The quality issue I remembered was somewhat jaggy outlines, even On Jan 13, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Toby Thain <toby
at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
...
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of feet of bromide
paper through it.
Neat! By the standards of the time, those were not really high image
quality, but definitely adequate and successful for newspaper work. I
remember working with them in the early 1980s.
paul
1:45 p.m.
On 2017-01-13 5:19 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
though the scan
resolution was entirely adequate. It was the first
outline based typesetter I've seen, and you could tell from the film --
Now I think about it, I've definitely seen what you are talking about,
although not with this device. Indeed, early outline set fonts were
insufficiently high resolution. Either they misjudged it or perhaps it
was due to a memory/storage constraint. Maybe this was a Linotron
problem, but I'm not familiar with that generation. (IIRC Linotype sold
the laser/raster engine with its own pre-PostScript software, a
generation after CRT setters? Or these poor rasterisations might have
been in the CRT generation.)
This isn't an issue with any of the PostScript setters though
(specifically not the Linotronics); the PostScript rasterisation is good
quality. You would never be able to discern flatness issues in the text.
--Toby
but not from newsprint -- that the outline shapes weren't quite fine
enough. It's possible I'm remembering wrong and that was the Linotron
300 that had this issue. Perhaps so, the dates for PostScript don't
quite fit the dates when I was doing this stuff.
On Jan 13, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Toby Thain <toby
at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
On 2017-01-13 3:17 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Yes, its primary job was newspaper galley setting when I bought it, but I did
bureau work on the side. Even some negatives of questionable density ;)
The quality issue I remembered was somewhat jaggy outlines, even On Jan 13, 2017, at 1:05 PM, Toby Thain <toby
at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
...
AUD $25,000 for a Linotype L100 PostScript imagesetter (used).
Has a 68K computer inside it with Adobe ROMs. Communication via serial or AppleTalk.
One of the first high resolution PostScript imagesetters. Put a lot of feet of bromide
paper through it.
Neat! By the standards of the time, those were not really high image
quality, but definitely adequate and successful for newspaper work. I
remember working with them in the early 1980s.
paul
14 Jan
14 Jan
3:50 p.m.
On 2017-01-12 5:35 PM, Andy Cloud wrote:
Hi Everyone!
I know this is a bit of a personal question, so please feel free to ignore
this email!
If you're willing to answer it would also be interesting to know what
drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular
computer?
For me, the most I've spent on a single computer is $2,000 for a Rev 0
Apple II around 3 years ago, I spent that much because I had wanted an
original Apple II for so long (not plus or E) and this one was so clean
and
perfect! I cannot think of a time when I will sell it!
Can't wait to hear your answers :) :)
_>Andy
For hardware, I spent ?400 pounds for a Japanese Dreamcast months before the
official UK one was released in 1999.
For software, I spent $200 on a damaged cartridge from the Atari cartridge
burial site via someone that was flagged by news articles as an official
seller of such items. It could be fake, but I wanted to own a piece of
history.
For magazines, I spent $300 AUD (Australian dollars) for 30 issues of 80
Micro and a further $300 (American dollars) for another 30 issues of the
magazine. All are in good condition apart from a few external water marks
here and there.
Regards,
Andrew Burton
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
www.aliensrcooluk.com
1:51 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:35 PM, Andy Cloud <r3trohub at gmail.com> wrote:
If you're willing to answer it would also be
interesting to know what drove
you to spend as much as you did on that particular computer?
Not money spent per se, but recently a Multics user ran the billing cycle
(apparently not setting it up correctly):
Disk usage for 12/31/00 1900.0 est Mon to 12/25/16 1304.4 est Sun
s-qta s-use s-charge d-qta d-use d-charge lev path
------- ------- -------------- ------- ------- -------------- -----
------------------------
229143 47192 $7,662,137.94 204933 733 $116,590.16 0 >
4000 1157 $175,013.75 0 20 1
system_control_1
1000 504 $10,972.03 0 2 2
system_control_1>syserr_log
400 263 $43,520.67 0 3 1
system_library_obsolete
6000 2823 $476,645.36 1000 30 $4,780.34 1
system_library_standard
6000 2939 $486,339.00 0 2 1
system_library_tandd
6000 2612 $458,486.06 1000 27 $4,442.88 1
system_library_tools
10000 6516 $766,673.19 1000 29 $3,313.04 1
system_library_unbundled
1890 0 3690 1 $160.69 1
user_dir_dir
3000 295 $5,586.83 5000 23 $2,603.30 2
user_dir_dir>SysAdmin
2000 1947 $148,208.64 0 12
3 SysAdmin>admin
5000 13 $2,048.54 5000 9 $1,446.25
2 SysDaemon
1000 2 $321.39 1000 2 $321.39
2 Daemon
100 0 100 2 $321.39
2 Operator
10 0 10 2 $321.39
2 Terminals
5000 0 5000 3 $327.71
2 HFED
1000 451 $93,884.64 100 21 $3,326.68
2 SysEng
1000 71 $448.49 100 1 $160.69
2 Guest
1500 15 $965.93 2000 7 $643.37 1
daemon_dir_dir
500 0 0 1 2
daemon_dir_dir>cards
5000 33 $4,994.39 5000 3 $482.08 1 >site
1000 0 1000 1 $160.69 1
system_library_auth_maint
------- ------- -------------- ------- ------- -------------- -----
------------------------
290543 66833 $10,336,246.50 235933 934 $139,402.04 SUBTOTALS
526476 67767 $10,475,648.50 TOTALS
(SEGMENTS + DIRECTORIES)
-- Charles
3216
days inactive
3218
days old
33 comments
19 participants
participants (19)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ajp166＠verizon.net -
aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
charles.unix.pro＠gmail.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
jplist2008＠kiwigeek.com -
kylevowen＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
r3trohub＠gmail.com -
rich.cini＠verizon.net -
shaunhalstead＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net -
terry＠webweavers.co.nz -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
useddec＠gmail.com