11 Jun
2002
11 Jun
'02
4:59 p.m.
Well.
I've been working on, and cleaning & testing, the weekend's finds. It
was a nice haul.
The aforementioned Macintosh System Software bundle, in shrinkwrap.
Way too much, but it's eBay Bait from hell. $6.99
An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no
burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm
sure this one's at least 15 years old.
Not a computer, but computerized, and the perfect ClassicCmp
Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and
overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the
odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free. By the time it's
street legal I'll have $75 into it.
Doc
11 Jun
11 Jun
5:13 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Shipley" <doc(a)mdrconsult.com>
To: "Classic Computers" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:29 AM
Subject: VERY good weekend
<SNIP>
Been tied up with 'real world' activiites of late, just catching up after
sifting through the back traffic.....
A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex still
sells them, but I'm
sure this one's at least 15 years old.
Is this electronic or the circular slide rule type? Pic?
Not a computer, but computerized, and the perfect
ClassicCmp
Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and
overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the
odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free.
Well nobody can say the price wasn't good.
By the time it's street legal I'll have $75
into it.
That much? Wow. :^) Nice catch.....
Geoff in Oz
5:35 p.m.
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote:
Lotsa history too. My little brother bought it new in '90. And I do
love a big tall ride....
BTW, I got Twinax stuff for you. We got horribly busy at my real job,
and the twinax stuff got back-burnered. I do have what I think you
needed. More later, after I sort it.
Doc
Been tied up with 'real world' activiites of
late, just catching up after
sifting through the back traffic.....
Circular slide rule. With docs. I've got a few things to scan this
week, so I'll throw that in.
A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex
still sells them, but I'm
sure this one's at least 15 years old.
Is this electronic or the circular slide rule type? Pic? Not a
computer, but computerized, and the perfect ClassicCmp
Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and
overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the
odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free.
Well nobody can say the price wasn't good.
By the time it's street legal I'll have
$75 into it.
That much? Wow. :^) Nice catch..... 
6:40 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
Lotsa history too. My little brother bought it new in '90. And I do
love a big tall ride....
BTW, I got Twinax stuff for you. We got horribly busy at my real job,
and the twinax stuff got back-burnered. I do have what I think you
needed. More later, after I sort it.
Doc
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Geoff Roberts wrote:
You're sure that it is not an E6B?
- don
Been tied up with 'real world' activiites
of late, just catching up after
sifting through the back traffic.....
Circular slide rule. With docs. I've got a few things to scan this
week, so I'll throw that in. A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer. Telex
still sells them, but I'm
sure this one's at least 15 years old.
Is this electronic or the circular slide rule type? Pic? Not a computer, but computerized, and the perfect
ClassicCmp
Collector's accessory -- 1991 Ford F-150 with Straight-6 EFI and
overdrive manual transmission. It's on its 4th trip around the
odometer. 328,755 true miles. Doc's in love. Free.
Well nobody can say the price wasn't good.
By the time it's street legal I'll have
$75 into it.
That much? Wow. :^) Nice catch.....
8:14 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
> > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer.
Telex still sells them, but I'm
> > > sure this one's at least 15 years old.
You're sure that it is not an E6B?
Isn't that what I said? ;)
Thanks for catching the typo.
Here are the best pics I've found online. Mine is an FDF-60, and
copyrighted 1975, but I think the difference is mostly or all cosmetic.
http://chris.gillings.com/collect/slide/telex.html
Of course, those E6B's all look alike to me. ;^)
So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find
any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do
with its age. Very cool little instrument, though.
Doc
12 Jun
12 Jun
12:02 p.m.
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly
used during - and probably before - WWII.
- don
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
> > > A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning
Computer. Telex still sells them, but I'm
> > > sure this one's at least 15 years old.
You're sure that it is not an E6B?
Isn't that what I said? ;)
Thanks for catching the typo.
Here are the best pics I've found online. Mine is an FDF-60, and
copyrighted 1975, but I think the difference is mostly or all cosmetic.
http://chris.gillings.com/collect/slide/telex.html
Of course, those E6B's all look alike to me. ;^)
So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find
any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do
with its age. Very cool little instrument, though. Doc
13 Jun
13 Jun
6:20 a.m.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago
(didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then.
I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996.
BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one
place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank
account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky.
--
Jeffrey Sharp
The email address lists(a)subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.
A Telex EB6
Dead Reckoning Computer.
Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used
during - and probably before - WWII. 
6:58 a.m.
New subject: E-6B usage
As far as I know, the FAA still requires students to know how to use an
E-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the exact
rules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are not
permitted to rely on a device that requires external power or batteries,
without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in flight.
There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial wheels,
and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one still), and
it's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than others. Mine
is a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones, hybrids, etc.
Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some people.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:21
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: VERY good weekend
On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago
(didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then.
I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996.
BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one
place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank
account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky.
--
Jeffrey Sharp
The email address lists(a)subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.
A Telex EB6
Dead Reckoning Computer.
Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used
during - and probably before - WWII. 
15 Jun
15 Jun
4:52 a.m.
New subject: E-6B usage
The FAA has no such requirment at all!
I'm a private pilot and I own my own plane. During primary flight
training I was introduced to the E6B
and found it quite fustrating to use. So I threw some money at the
problem and bought an electronic
E6B from Sporty's Pilot Shop.
This was APPROVED for use during the FAA written test, no questions
asked. During my checkride no questions were asked that needed any of
the calculations these things perform.
And this was some 6 or 7 years back now. I can't guess when any
'requirment' was removed, but the Sporty's
electronic E6B was pretty new at the time.
Now of course all the E6B functions are built into most Loran and GPS
units, and I've not seen a student
pilot laboring over a mechanical E6B in a long long time. I'm not even
sure if they still train pilots with them
at all at the local flight school (FIT).
J.C. Wren wrote:
As far as I know, the FAA still requires students to
know how to use an
E-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the exact
rules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are not
permitted to rely on a device that requires external power or batteries,
without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in flight.
There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial wheels,
and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one still), and
it's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than others. Mine
is a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones, hybrids, etc.
Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some people.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:21
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: VERY good weekend
On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago
(didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then.
I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996.
BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one
place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank
account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky.
--
Jeffrey Sharp
The email address lists(a)subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.
A Telex
EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer.
Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used
during - and probably before - WWII.
5:47 a.m.
New subject: E-6B usage
Surely you're not telling me the FAA no longer requires students to know how
to perform these functions manually, nor requires them to demonstrate that
knowledge?
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Bob Shannon
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 09:52
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: E-6B usage
The FAA has no such requirment at all!
I'm a private pilot and I own my own plane. During primary flight
training I was introduced to the E6B
and found it quite fustrating to use. So I threw some money at the
problem and bought an electronic
E6B from Sporty's Pilot Shop.
This was APPROVED for use during the FAA written test, no questions asked.
During my checkride no questions were asked that needed any of the
calculations these things perform.
And this was some 6 or 7 years back now. I can't guess when any
'requirment' was removed, but the Sporty's
electronic E6B was pretty new at the time.
Now of course all the E6B functions are built into most Loran and GPS
units, and I've not seen a student
pilot laboring over a mechanical E6B in a long long time. I'm not even
sure if they still train pilots with them
at all at the local flight school (FIT).
J.C. Wren wrote:
As far as I know, the FAA still requires students to know how to use
anE-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the
exactrules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are
notpermitted to rely on a device that requires external power or
batteries,without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in
flight. There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial
wheels,and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one
still), andit's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than
others. Mineis a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones,
hybrids, etc.Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some
people. --John-----Original Message-----From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]OnBehalf Of Jeffrey SharpSent: Thursday,
June 13, 2002 11:21To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.orgSubject: Re: VERY good weekendOn
Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote: A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning
Computer.Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were
commonly usedduring - and probably before - WWII.I think they are still in
use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago(didn't finish), and my
instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then.I bought mine brand new
from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996.BTW, one place I
trained (Airman Flight
School in Norman, OK) is also oneplace where Zacarias
Moussaoui trained. He
even seems to have opened a bankaccount and joined a gym here in Norman.
Freaky.--Jeffrey SharpThe email address lists(a)subatomix.com is for mailing
list traffic. Pleasesend off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp
subatomix beetle dot com.You may need to remove some bugs first.
17 Jun
17 Jun
8:07 a.m.
New subject: E-6B usage
--- "J.C. Wren" <jcwren(a)jcwren.com> wrote:
Surely you're not telling me the FAA no longer
requires students to know
how to perform these functions manually, nor requires them to demonstrate
that knowledge?
I was not required to pull out an E6B during my oral exam or my check
ride for my private ticket (last year). I _was_ trained on it by my
instructor and he did require that I use it and not an electronic one for
my cross-country prep.
I don't have the FAR-AIM with me at work, but I'm pretty sure that the E6B
is not specifically mentioned as a required tool or item to have with you
in the cockpit. There are "catch-all" regs that say that the pilot is
responsible for knowing everything there is to know pertaining to safe
aircraft operation. Presumably, that's what you'd be guilty of if you
landed in a corn field because you didn't calculate the amount of fuel
burned by the headwinds stronger than forecast, especially if you had
an E6B with you but didn't know how to use it.
-ethan
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
19 Jun
19 Jun
2:40 p.m.
New subject: E-6B usage
Well, I can't say what the rules are today, but when I took my tests,
you had to demonstrate that you
understood what the calculations were for, and how to understand the
results in terms of aircraft performance.
How you went about the calculations was not an issue.
J.C. Wren wrote:
Surely you're not telling me the FAA no longer
requires students to
know how to perform these functions manually, nor requires them to
demonstrate that knowledge?
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 09:52
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: E-6B usage
The FAA has no such requirment at all!
I'm a private pilot and I own my own plane. During primary flight
training I was introduced to the E6B
and found it quite fustrating to use. So I threw some money at
the problem and bought an electronic
E6B from Sporty's Pilot Shop.
This was APPROVED for use during the FAA written test, no
questions asked. During my checkride no questions were asked that
needed any of the calculations these things perform.
And this was some 6 or 7 years back now. I can't guess when any
'requirment' was removed, but the Sporty's
electronic E6B was pretty new at the time.
Now of course all the E6B functions are built into most Loran and
GPS units, and I've not seen a student
pilot laboring over a mechanical E6B in a long long time. I'm not
even sure if they still train pilots with them
at all at the local flight school (FIT).
J.C. Wren wrote:
As far as I know, the FAA still requires students
to know how to use an
E-6B, and they're still very readily available. I don't remember the exact
rules anymore since it's been sometime since I've flown, but you are not
permitted to rely on a device that requires external power or batteries,
without a manual fallback system, since either or both may fail in flight.
There are a number of E-6B type computers out there, both mechanial wheels,
and electronic. Sportys sold a calculator like E-6B (I have one still), and
it's batteries like crazy. Some E-6B ares much classier than others. Mine
is a mid-range solid aluminum wheel. There are plastic ones, hybrids, etc.
Some are quite attractive, and I believe collected by some people.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Sharp
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:21
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: VERY good weekend
On Wednesday, June 12, 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
I think they are still in use. I was in flight school about 5-6 years ago
(didn't finish), and my instructor had me using an E-6B every now and then.
I bought mine brand new from Sporty's Pilot Shop in 1996.
BTW, one place I trained (Airman Flight School in Norman, OK) is also one
place where Zacarias Moussaoui trained. He even seems to have opened a bank
account and joined a gym here in Norman. Freaky.
--
Jeffrey Sharp
The email address lists(a)subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please
send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com.
You may need to remove some bugs first.
A Telex
EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer.
Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly used
during - and probably before - WWII.
13 Jun
13 Jun
8:47 a.m.
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
They're still being sold as part of pilot "student kits". As a matter
of fact, ASA sells one made of <<shudder>> pasteboard.
To be fair, they sell a really sweet-looking metal model too.
Doc
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
So, E6B is a
type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find
any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do
with its age. Very cool little instrument, though.
Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly
used during - and probably before - WWII.
- don
9:53 a.m.
New subject: E6B (was Re: VERY good weekend)
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
I always thought of it as a model name, but not a model specific to a
vendor; does that make it a type designation? It's probably a former
military designator for some original COMPUTER, FLIGHT, MODEL E6B or
some such, but that's just a guess.
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
> > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? They're still being sold as part of pilot
"student kits". As a matter
of fact, ASA sells one made of <<shudder>> pasteboard.
That's what I have - absolute backup for my Palm running flight software.
To be fair, they sell a really sweet-looking metal
model too.
It is sweet, but it costs a lot more than the pasteboard one.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
10:16 a.m.
New subject: E6B (was Re: VERY good weekend)
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Only about $30. I may just be a snob, but I have a real problem with
cardboard anything that's meant to be used more than once.
Doc
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
From the Telex E-6B manual:
"Originally designed by the late Lt. Philip Dalton, USNR, the E-6B
computer was adopted by the Army Air Corp in 1942 and has appeared on
the civilian market under different labels and variations. It has since
been adopted by the U.S. Navy and now by the U.S. Army for helicopter
pilots."
Also, on the "type designation" question, while reading the friendly
manual (which covers 3 models - FDF-51A/57/60) I also found a reference
to "the Telex type E-6B Dead Reckoning Computer".
> > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name?
I always thought of it as a model name, but not a model specific to a
vendor; does that make it a type designation? It's probably a former
military designator for some original COMPUTER, FLIGHT, MODEL E6B or
some such, but that's just a guess. To be fair,
they sell a really sweet-looking metal model too.
It is sweet, but it costs a lot more than the pasteboard one.
10:46 a.m.
New subject: E6B (was Re: VERY good weekend)
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Thanks for that quote. A google search was not at all productive from a
historical point of view.
- don
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
From the Telex E-6B manual:
"Originally designed by the late Lt. Philip Dalton, USNR, the E-6B
computer was adopted by the Army Air Corp in 1942 and has appeared on
the civilian market under different labels and variations. It has since
been adopted by the U.S. Navy and now by the U.S. Army for helicopter
pilots."
> > So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name?
I always thought of it as a model name, but not a model specific to a
vendor; does that make it a type designation? It's probably a former
military designator for some original COMPUTER, FLIGHT, MODEL E6B or
some such, but that's just a guess. Also, on the "type designation" question,
while reading the friendly
manual (which covers 3 models - FDF-51A/57/60) I also found a reference
to "the Telex type E-6B Dead Reckoning Computer".
Only about $30. I may just be a snob, but I have a real problem with
cardboard anything that's meant to be used more than once.
Doc
To be
fair, they sell a really sweet-looking metal model too.
It is sweet, but it costs a lot more than the pasteboard one. 
11:12 a.m.
Hi,
Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> said:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
They're still being sold as part of pilot "student kits". As a matter
of fact, ASA sells one made of <<shudder>> pasteboard.
I have a similar thing by Jeppeson, used only with flight sim since ill-
health killed my flying ambitions ;-(
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
So, E6B
is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find
any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do
with its age. Very cool little instrument, though.
Well, 1975 would make it a fairly late model since they were commonly
used during - and probably before - WWII.
- don
15 Jun
15 Jun
4:24 a.m.
Ahh, the E6B, I almost remember it!
I had one made by Cessna, but they all work the same way. The
'original' E6B was made by several makers
under contract for the USAF. These are always metal. Most civilian
versions are plastic, or plastic and
metal.
They are still made, and used for basic pilot training today.
Doc wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Doc wrote:
>>> A Telex EB6 Dead Reckoning Computer.
Telex still sells them, but I'm
>>>sure this one's at least 15 years old.
>>>
You're sure that it is not an E6B?
Isn't that what I said? ;)
Thanks for catching the typo.
Here are the best pics I've found online. Mine is an FDF-60, and
copyrighted 1975, but I think the difference is mostly or all cosmetic.
http://chris.gillings.com/collect/slide/telex.html
Of course, those E6B's all look alike to me. ;^)
So, E6B is a type designation, right? Not a model name? I can't find
any info on the FDF-60, so I don't know if the "1975" has anything to do
with its age. Very cool little instrument, though.
Doc
7:48 p.m.
Doc Shipley wrote:
Well.
I've been working on, and cleaning & testing, the weekend's finds. It
was a nice haul.
edited
An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse -
works great, no
burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
edited
Doc
I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there .
.
. . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he
bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company.
Nice haul indeed.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
8:25 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote:
Sort of "feels" like an Amiga... All I've got at the moment is
TOS/GEM, so I don't have much of an opinion. The condition of the
monitor was a nice surprise, though. Nice, crisp pic, and I'm not
having to max the controls to get it.
As soon as I figure out how to generate software disks from Linux it
should be fun. First guess is that I'll be setting up a SLIP connection
and trying the NFS client....
Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful.
An Atari
1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no
burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
edited
Doc
I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there .
.
. . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he
bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company.
Nice haul indeed.
Thanks. More fun than one man should be allowed!
Doc
9:29 p.m.
Doc wrote:
Gary Hildebrand
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Gary Hildebrand wrote:
Sort of "feels" like an Amiga... All I've got at the moment is
TOS/GEM, so I don't have much of an opinion. The condition of the
monitor was a nice surprise, though. Nice, crisp pic, and I'm not
having to max the controls to get it.
As soon as I figure out how to generate software disks from Linux it
should be fun. First guess is that I'll be setting up a SLIP connection
and trying the NFS client....
Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds useful.
I thought they had a native SCSI controller. I do know they have native
MIDI interface (opto isolated). ISTR the monitor was like the Amiga,
and was RGB @15.75 kHz scan rate. I'll keep my eyes and ears open on
that one. My former Amiga dealer in KC was a big Atari 8 bit/16 bit
fan. TOS/GEM was impressive, but the Linux seems to be the choice
nowdays.
I've only seen about three or four of those. Last one I saw was at a
hobby shop in Norfolk, Nebraska. They were using it as a business
computer.
An
Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no
burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
edited
Doc
I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there .
.
. . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he
bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company.
Nice haul indeed.
Thanks. More fun than one man should be allowed!
Doc 
12 Jun
12 Jun
1:06 p.m.
Doc wrote:
Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds
useful.
I have an Atari DMA-SCSI adaptor, made by a company called
Berkley Microsystems. They did the BMS-100, which is the
one I have, and a BMS-200 that's smaller, to suit 3.5"
hard disks. I bought the BMS-100 from them in 1987,
along with a SCSI-ST506 convertor. I then ran two ST225
disks off the system.
They were hard to find in 1987, so finding 'em now would
be tricky!
The Atari requires all sorts of software patches to run
well with a hard disk. There's a bug in the OS that
limits partition size to 16Mb, and another that makes
file creation (opening for write) take about a 5 second
delay. TOS version 1.4 fixed some of the problems,
though.
--
John Honniball
coredump(a)gifford.co.uk
13 Jun
13 Jun
1:58 p.m.
Hi,
...on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:25:12AM -0500, Doc wrote:
Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds
useful.
Best Electronics has two or three different types
(as well as almost anything else Atari).
At $75, they are not cheaper than 10 years ago, though...
http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/hard-dri.htm
somewhere towards the end of the page.
Alex.
2:54 p.m.
New subject: Atari 1040ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
Hi,
...on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:25:12AM -0500, Doc wrote:
Yes, I found it this afternoon. However, I think I'll forego that
expense. If I had a model that was otherwise more upgradeable - 2-chip
ROM, RAM expansion, etc, that $75 would make sense.
I fully expect the principle of mutual attraction to come into play,
though. Now that I've paid for one, many more will follow for free.
One thing I will surely watch for, even if I just have the ST, is an
external floppy drive. The thing is crippled with only one. :^)
Doc
Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds
useful.
Best Electronics has two or three different types
(as well as almost anything else Atari). 
3:07 p.m.
New subject: Atari 1040ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
Yes, I found it this afternoon. However, I think
I'll forego that
expense. If I had a model that was otherwise more upgradeable - 2-chip
ROM, RAM expansion, etc, that $75 would make sense.
I fully expect the principle of mutual attraction to come into play,
though. Now that I've paid for one, many more will follow for free.
One thing I will surely watch for, even if I just have the ST, is an
external floppy drive. The thing is crippled with only one. :^)
About 10 years ago I had one of the Supra floptical drives,
for the ST, that held 10MB or so on a 5-1/4" disk and I traded it
off for an external floppy for my Mega. Unfortunately I never
received the external floppy and I wish I had kept the floptical as
I've never seen another one.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
15 Jun
15 Jun
1:46 a.m.
New subject: Atari 1040ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
The 6 chip model can be upgraded to the 2 chip and RAM expanded to the
maximum of 4 megs. There were several kits for RAM expansion available
and the chip switch involved unsoldering a few pads.
Lawrence
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
Hi,
...on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 12:25:12AM -0500, Doc wrote:
Yes, I found it this afternoon. However, I think I'll forego that
expense. If I had a model that was otherwise more upgradeable - 2-chip
ROM, RAM expansion, etc, that $75 would make sense.
I fully expect the principle of mutual attraction to come into play,
though. Now that I've paid for one, many more will follow for free.
One thing I will surely watch for, even if I just have the ST, is an
external floppy drive. The thing is crippled with only one. :^)
Doc
Are the DMA-SCSI adapters unobtainium? Sounds
useful.
Best Electronics has two or three different types
(as well as almost anything else Atari).
13 Jun
13 Jun
5:29 a.m.
Wow talk about flame-bait. The arguments are that the ST came out the
door first. The ST<>Amiga wars do live on. In my opinion the ST was a much
better machine and I do have 2 A-1000s, a 2000 and a 3000. They are
anything but rare, just look at E-bay. They've also retained their value better.
The comp.sys.atari.st newsgroup is very active. Try one before you simply
repeat the rabid Amigans crap. The Atari was the machine of choice for most
serious musicians and is still used by many especially in Europe.
The Tramiel-Amiga-Atari war was complicated and is well documented.
Check out Curt Vendels The Atari History Museum:
http://www.atarimuseum.com
Sheesh !
Lawrence
Doc Shipley wrote:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
Well.
I've been working on, and cleaning & testing, the weekend's finds. It
was a nice haul.
edited
An Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse -
works great, no
burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
edited
Doc
I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there .
.
. . . .I think Jack Tramiel pushed that one through Atari just after he
bailed ship at Commode Door, to get back at his former company.
Nice haul indeed.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
11:08 a.m.
New subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Wow talk about flame-bait. The arguments are that the
ST came out the
door first. The ST<>Amiga wars do live on. In my opinion the ST was a much
better machine and I do have 2 A-1000s, a 2000 and a 3000. They are
anything but rare, just look at E-bay. They've also retained their value
better.
This one, a plain-jane 1040ST, is a Rev C m/b and has the original
6-chip ROMs with TOS v1.00. I made a bootdisk to boot into TOS v2.06,
which works fine at the expense of 256k of RAM, it's not a permanent
solution. Are the 6-chip ROM images for v1.04 available anywhere? I've
found the TOS ROMs here & there, but not the idividual chip images. Come
to think of it, are the ROM chips soldered or socketed? I looked while
cleaning it, and have already forgotten....
Doc
11:18 a.m.
New subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
This one, a plain-jane 1040ST, is a Rev C m/b and
has the original
6-chip ROMs with TOS v1.00. I made a bootdisk to boot into TOS v2.06,
which works fine at the expense of 256k of RAM, it's not a permanent
solution. Are the 6-chip ROM images for v1.04 available anywhere? I've
found the TOS ROMs here & there, but not the idividual chip images. Come
to think of it, are the ROM chips soldered or socketed? I looked while
cleaning it, and have already forgotten....
I believe it depended on the ST model. My MegaST came with
1.02 and I upgraded it to 1.04. It was two socketed chips. If I
remember correctly it would have taken an adapter of some sort to go
to a higher version than that in it. How did you boot 2.06 off of
floppy?
I've never had the pleasure of using a newer ST, such as the
Falcon or TT, but I was always annoyed by the low-res color screens.
This annoyed me on the Amiga too but you could do things on the A1000
that you couldn't on the ST, such as the 4,096 color HAM modes. My
Mega always runs the higher resolution mono monitor because of
this...too bad the screen is so small!
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11:50 a.m.
New subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote:
I believe it depended on the ST model. My MegaST
came with
1.02 and I upgraded it to 1.04. It was two socketed chips. If I
remember correctly it would have taken an adapter of some sort to go
to a higher version than that in it. How did you boot 2.06 off of
floppy?
Yes, v1.04 was available both as 6-chip (192k) and 2-chip (256k) sets.
I _think_, from the little reading I've done, that since you have a
2-chip board, you can just replace the ROMs.
Disclaimer:
It appears that use of any of the TOS ROM images without owning the
actual ROMs is, while common, still verboten. The following description
is solely intended for informational purposes. :^P
To boot from floppy, I would install STEEM on the Linux PC, find a
valid ".st" disk image, format it in the emulator to 360k, and run
"credisk" from ftp.atari.st on it. credisk puts a bootblock and
MTOSBOOT.SYS on the "floppy". Then I would copy "tos206us.rom", also
from ftp.atari.st, onto the floppy. The credisk README
warns that
you'll get a ROM CRC error at boot, but AFAICT, it shouldn't
affect
operation. It does eat 256k RAM, since the OS is running in volatile
memory.
STEEM doesn't write to floppy very well, but you could simply dd the
finished 360k .st image to a SSDD floppy. If you didn't want to fool
with all that, someone who legally owned the v2.06 ROM might ascertain
that you legally own the v2.06 ROM, and email you the dd image.
You _should_ be able to use credisk on the actual ST, but it won't run
on mine. I can't remember the error, but I think it relates to the
early TOS version. In fact, I don't remember the whole process real
clearly, because I did all this right after some very ex[p|t]ensive
dental work.
Doc
11:21 a.m.
New subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
Doc,
If you need TOS ROM's, memory upgrades, HD's, accelerators and the such,
go to B&C Atari Sales & Service, they have a great selection of items,
sometimes there prices are not always current, so if you see or don't see
something on their site: www.myatari.com then give Bruce or Cathy a call
at: 530-295-9270 (California) Tell them Curt sent you, they'll do right by
you! :-)
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc" <doc(a)mdrconsult.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Atari ST; Was Re: VERY good weekend
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
> Wow talk about flame-bait. The arguments are that the ST came out the
> door first. The ST<>Amiga wars do live on. In my opinion the ST was a
much
better machine
and I do have 2 A-1000s, a 2000 and a 3000. They are
anything but rare, just look at E-bay. They've also retained their value
better.
This one, a plain-jane 1040ST, is a Rev C m/b and has the original
6-chip ROMs with TOS v1.00. I made a bootdisk to boot into TOS v2.06,
which works fine at the expense of 256k of RAM, it's not a permanent
solution. Are the 6-chip ROM images for v1.04 available anywhere? I've
found the TOS ROMs here & there, but not the idividual chip images. Come
to think of it, are the ROM chips soldered or socketed? I looked while
cleaning it, and have already forgotten....
Doc
4:24 p.m.
New subject: IBM Current (c)1990
Said book will be going into the trash if there are no takers.
Current was a PIM program from the period.
John A.
4:39 p.m.
New subject: IBM Current (c)1990
At 09:24 PM 6/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
Said book will be going into the trash if there are no
takers.
Current was a PIM program from the period.
John A.
How much with media mail shipping?
Do you take PayPal?
P.O. Box 3365
Spring Hill Florida
34611-3365
2:08 p.m.
...on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 11:48:07PM -0500, Gary Hildebrand wrote:
*ouch*
Well, the Atari ST was a major success in Europe,
so 1040STs are not exactly rare... It's a problem
to find one at that price, though...
I just get an ST Book in a quite respecable condition,
that was somewhat less easy to find - as far as everyone
sais, only about 1000 were sold...
/|\lex. :)
An Atari
1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no
burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
I remember that one, an
Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . . 
14 Jun
14 Jun
5:35 a.m.
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
...on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 11:48:07PM -0500, Gary
Hildebrand wrote:
*ouch*
Well, the Atari ST was a major success in Europe,
so 1040STs are not exactly rare... It's a problem
to find one at that price, though...
The Atari 1040ST is not rare here either by any means. Like everything,
they don't come up as often as they used to a few years ago, but they do
turn up, sometimes in droves.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
An
Atari 1040ST with SC1224 display and mouse - works great, no
burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
I remember that one, an
Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there . .
7:07 a.m.
1040ST's were some of the most widely built version of the ST's, they appear
most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually you can get a nice setup
with monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have a
deeper case design and lots of room for the many expansions both commercial
and homebrew that are available, several include the 1.44mb floppy upgrade,
IDE hd, cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There are also a few new homebrew
upgrades like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you to use standard NE2000
network cards and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another newer
browsers are available and there are multiple email, realplayer compatible,
PDF reader compatible, newsgroup utils available to totally equip your ST
for Internet use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is excellent.
Also look into using MiNT and the replacement desktops.... especially Jinnee
which has a cross Mac/Win9x look and feel...
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: VERY good weekend
Festival
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
> ...on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 11:48:07PM -0500, Gary Hildebrand wrote:
> > > An Atari 1040ST with SC1224
display and mouse - works great, no
> > > burn-in, floppy reads & formats perfectly. $5.98
> > I remember that one, an Amiga wannabe. Talk about a rare duck there
.
.
*ouch*
Well, the Atari ST was a major success in Europe,
so 1040STs are not exactly rare... It's a problem
to find one at that price, though...
The Atari 1040ST is not rare here either by any means. Like everything,
they don't come up as often as they used to a few years ago, but they do
turn up, sometimes in droves.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at
www.VintageTech.com *
7:16 a.m.
New subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend)
1040ST's were some of the most widely built version
of the ST's, they appear
most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually you can get a nice setup
with monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have a
deeper case design and lots of room for the many expansions both commercial
and homebrew that are available, several include the 1.44mb floppy upgrade,
IDE hd, cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There are also a few new homebrew
upgrades like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you to use standard NE2000
network cards and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another newer
browsers are available and there are multiple email, realplayer compatible,
PDF reader compatible, newsgroup utils available to totally equip your ST
for Internet use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is excellent.
Also look into using MiNT and the replacement desktops.... especially Jinnee
which has a cross Mac/Win9x look and feel...
Weren't internal options, such as hard disks, made for the
the Mega by 3rd party developers or was that only for the MegaSTE?
I've always wanted to expand my Mega above the standard SH204 hard
disk and SM124 monitor but never got around to buying anything other
than TOS 1.04 from Toad before they exited the Atari market. If
nothing else, one of the ICD interfaces might be cool.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
2:17 p.m.
New subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend)
The Mega ST's had the Mega Drives which were pizza box ASCI drives that
stacked ontop of the Mega's, the initial HD's for the ST in general were the
Atari SH204's and HD's by companies like Supra and ICD, Inc. There are
now several IDE adapters that can work in nearly all of the ST's,
Wizztronics sells them as well as Best Electronics too. ICD had a
dongle called "The Link" that added the additional circuitry that Atari was
too cheap to include on its ASCI port to turn it into a full blown SCSI
port. The Mega STE's shipped with internal HD's and then later versions
of the 1040ST called the 1040STE had internal HD's too.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:16 PM
Subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend)
>1040ST's were some of the most widely built
version of the ST's, they
appear
>most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually
you can get a nice setup
>with monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have
a
>deeper case design and lots of room for the many
expansions both
commercial
>and homebrew that are available, several include
the 1.44mb floppy
upgrade,
>IDE hd, cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There
are also a few new
homebrew
>upgrades like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you
to use standard NE2000
>network cards and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another
newer
>browsers are available and there are multiple
email, realplayer
compatible,
>PDF reader compatible, newsgroup utils available
to totally equip your ST
>for Internet use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is
excellent.
>Also look into using MiNT and the replacement
desktops.... especially
Jinnee
which has a
cross Mac/Win9x look and feel...
Weren't internal options, such as hard disks, made for the
the Mega by 3rd party developers or was that only for the MegaSTE?
I've always wanted to expand my Mega above the standard SH204 hard
disk and SM124 monitor but never got around to buying anything other
than TOS 1.04 from Toad before they exited the Atari market. If
nothing else, one of the ICD interfaces might be cool.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
15 Jun
15 Jun
9:06 a.m.
New subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend)
Hi,
...on Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 07:17:11PM -0400, Curt Vendel wrote:
The Mega STE's shipped with internal HD's and
then later versions
of the 1040ST called the 1040STE had internal HD's too.
I've never seen that... All the STe's had in addition was
the Blitter, enhanced sound, TOS 1.06, and I think the RAM
were normal SIMMs.
Mega STe's were neat, but too late, and not shipped in
enough quantity (as almost everything else from Atari
at that time).
Alex.
1:46 a.m.
New subject: Atari ST (was: Re: VERY good weekend)
I've had an LCD Link for using SCSI peripherals for some time. I used a
Syquest EZ135 with it until the Syquest died. Also a SCSI CD with
Extendos. I dont know if there are SCSI HD size limitations tho.
Lawrence
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
1040ST's
were some of the most widely built version of the ST's, they appear
most often in swap meets and on Ebay and usually you can get a nice setup with
monitor for anywhere from $20-$30 on Ebay. The 1040ST's also have a deeper
case design and lots of room for the many expansions both commercial and
homebrew that are available, several include the 1.44mb floppy upgrade, IDE hd,
cpu upgrade and memory upgrade. There are also a few new homebrew upgrades
like the ASCI to ISA bus that allows you to use standard NE2000 network cards
and hook your ST up to the Internet, CAB 2.7 and another newer browsers are
available and there are multiple email, realplayer compatible, PDF reader
compatible, newsgroup utils available to totally equip your ST for Internet
use. I would highly Papyrus word processor, it is excellent. Also look into
using MiNT and the replacement desktops.... especially Jinnee which has a cross
Mac/Win9x look and feel...
Weren't internal options, such as hard disks, made for the
the Mega by 3rd party developers or was that only for the MegaSTE?
I've always wanted to expand my Mega above the standard SH204 hard
disk and SM124 monitor but never got around to buying anything other
than TOS 1.04 from Toad before they exited the Atari market. If
nothing else, one of the ICD interfaces might be cool.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8070
days inactive
8078
days old
40 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
ab＠lists.gxis.de -
allain＠panix.com -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
coredump＠gifford.co.uk -
curt＠atari-history.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
donm＠cts.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
gehrich＠tampabay.rr.com -
geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
lists＠subatomix.com -
stanb＠dial.pipex.com