13 Apr
2004
13 Apr
'04
12:05 a.m.
Hi all,
I finally had some time to work on my "homebrew console" project.
It is not yet finished, but the progress is significant enough
to report to this group.
I completed the wiring of the new sleak design PDP-11/35 console,
and debugged the "firmware" of the Motorola M6802 microprocessor.
After the console seemed to work as I wanted it (...) [using the
built-in debug monitor], it was time to turn to the current SIMH
version (3.2-0). I ported my previous thoughts of version 2.10 to
this current release, and debugged a little more :-)
The progress so far:
1) set the switches to any address, press "LOAD ADRS".
result: the position of the switches appears on the ADDRESS LEDs.
2) set the switches [15:0] to any value, press "DEP".
result: - the data is stored in the (previously loaded) address.
- the data appears on the DATA LEDs.
3) press "EXAM"
result: - the address is shown on the ADDRESS LEDs,
- the data of this address is shown on the DATA LEDs.
4) when "EXAM" is pressed again after "EXAM"
result: the next address is shown (address and data)
5) when "DEP" is pressed again after "DEP"
result: the data is stored in the next address.
6) when "EXAM" and "DEP" are toggled following each other
result: the address is not incremented.
So, LOAD, EXAM, and DEP react as the REAL CONSOLE in combination
with the patched SIMH software ! More testing will be done.
I thought this progress was nice to mention here; the following items
on my list are:
- behaviour of CONT, HALT/ENABL, START (and S-STEP!)
- ADDRESS and DATA LEDs update automatically when SIMH runs a PDP-11 OS.
- shoot a short .mpg to show an "idle pattern" of the console when it
is not connected, running in "stand-alone mode".
Check www.pdp-11.nl and click the link [homebrew 'PDP-11'] at the left.
NOTE: I built this console with my PDP-11/35 as example. PDP-11's are
my focus of collecting ... The protocol used between the "front-end" and
the SIMH software is simple. I do not see any reason why you cannot hook
up a PDP-8 console or even any other blinkenlight console (e.g. HP-1000).
I real console (from eBay, I do not support the thought of stripping a
fine real machine just for the console ...!) could also be connected, it
is just a matter of wiring the switches and the toggles.
If there is sufficient interest, I *might* think of designing a lay-out
of a single board that contains the CPU and the I/O. Depends on how many
of you have interest in this project to keep the cost low. If somebody
works where he/she has easy access to a PC lay-out program and etch option
(double-sided PCB, with metalisation through the holes), I will gladly
assist and provide answers for any related question.
kind regards,
- Henk, PA8PDP
13 Apr
13 Apr
1:49 a.m.
>>>> "Gooijen" == Gooijen H
<Gooijen> writes:
Gooijen> If there is sufficient interest, I *might* think of
Gooijen> designing a lay-out of a single board that contains the CPU
Gooijen> and the I/O. Depends on how many of you have interest in
Gooijen> this project to keep the cost low. If somebody works where
Gooijen> he/she has easy access to a PC lay-out program and etch
Gooijen> option (double-sided PCB, with metalisation through the
Gooijen> holes), I will gladly assist and provide answers for any
Gooijen> related question.
Henk,
A couple of options, one I know, one I don't yet:
Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD tool
(Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in
schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version
that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you.
I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice
product.
There's also www.pcb123.com, which is a PCB shop that offers a
freeware PCB tool to go with their service. I think the trick is that
it's tied to their PCB fab, but their prices don't seem to be fairly
reasonable. I haven't tried that yet. That one doesn't seem to have
any size limits.
paul
2:12 a.m.
Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a
nice PCB CAD tool
(Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in
schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version
that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you.
I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice
product.
I use this (and like it) too. Also, I bought the unlimited version, so I
can lay out arbitrarily large PCBs (did a TC08 backplane layout recently).
I could probably be arm-twisted to lay out the combo board (especially if
the two smaller boards have already been done). I also have some (limited)
experience using Eagle to generate the files needed by a board fab.
There's also www.pcb123.com, which is a PCB shop
that offers a
freeware PCB tool to go with their service. I think the trick is that
it's tied to their PCB fab, but their prices don't seem to be fairly
reasonable. I haven't tried that yet. That one doesn't seem to have
any size limits.
I tried this, but didn't like it well enough to offset the tie to their fab.
In particular, I was worried that classic computer stuff would outlive the
company that does pcb123. With Eagle, at least I have the installation
media and a (perpetual) license, so I should be able to use any future fab I
need to.
Vince
2:36 a.m.
>>>> "vrs" == vrs
<vrs(a)msn.com> writes:
> Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has
a nice PCB CAD
> tool (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in
> schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit
> version that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might
> work for you. I've been using an older version for some time now,
> it's quite a nice product.
vrs> I use this (and like it) too. Also, I bought the unlimited
vrs> version, so I can lay out arbitrarily large PCBs (did a TC08
vrs> backplane layout recently). I could probably be arm-twisted to
vrs> lay out the combo board (especially if the two smaller boards
vrs> have already been done). I also have some (limited) experience
vrs> using Eagle to generate the files needed by a board fab.
I've done one board to date. That one was done by a fab shop that
takes Eagle files directly. Very handy -- I just shipped the .BRD
file to them and they took care of the rest.
paul
3:16 a.m.
vrs> I use this (and like it) too. Also, I bought
the unlimited
vrs> version, so I can lay out arbitrarily large PCBs (did a TC08
vrs> backplane layout recently). I could probably be arm-twisted to
vrs> lay out the combo board (especially if the two smaller boards
vrs> have already been done). I also have some (limited) experience
vrs> using Eagle to generate the files needed by a board fab.
I've done one board to date. That one was done by a fab shop that
takes Eagle files directly. Very handy -- I just shipped the .BRD
file to them and they took care of the rest.
I've done two, and the board shop wanted Gerber files and an Excellon drill
file. They are not hard to generate, but it took me a little while to
figure out how the first time. They were the M452 and W076 replacement
cards (which are still available :-)).
Vince
10:32 a.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
I've used eagle for a number of pcb's, from 2 layer to 6 layer. Works
great and runs under linux... I don't do anything too complex - it
works and I like it.
-brad
>>>> "vrs" == vrs <vrs(a)msn.com> writes:
>> Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD
>> tool (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in
>> schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit
>> version that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might
>> work for you. I've been using an older version for some time now,
>> it's quite a nice product. 
11:11 a.m.
New subject: CAD software..
For small to medium jobs, consider PCB123. Schematic Capture, Board Layout
[NOT the greatest auto router] for 2 or 4 layer boards. Solder Mask
generation.
What sets them apart is they are a board fabrication house. While you are
designing the board it shows the actual production costs.
Just finished a small project that required 10 identical 4x4 (inch) 2 layer
boards. Cost for the 10 boards = $140 [US].
Maybe not the cheapest, maybe not the best software. But definitely a simple
workable single point solution.
11:29 a.m.
New subject: CAD software..
David V. Corbin wrote:
For small to medium jobs, consider PCB123. Schematic
Capture, Board Layout
[NOT the greatest auto router] for 2 or 4 layer boards. Solder Mask
generation.
What sets them apart is they are a board fabrication house. While you are
designing the board it shows the actual production costs.
Just finished a small project that required 10 identical 4x4 (inch) 2 layer
boards. Cost for the 10 boards = $140 [US].
Maybe not the cheapest, maybe not the best software. But definitely a simple
workable single point solution.
.
I might consider them, but I want to be OPEN SOURCE with my design.
I wonder when I'll have to stock up on the chips I need, before they
go out of production?
Ben.
14 Apr
14 Apr
1:34 a.m.
New subject: CAD software..
>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk
<bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> writes:
ben> David V. Corbin wrote:
> For small to medium jobs, consider PCB123....
ben> I might consider them, but I want to be OPEN SOURCE with my
ben> design.
You mean you want the tools used to be open source? If you find any,
please let us all know -- I have looked and found nothing.
If you mean that you want the tool to produce output files that are
useable anywhere, then yes, PCB123 would not be the answer. Eagle CAD
would serve, that produces Gerber files (or PostScript files -- handy
if you have not-too-demanding boards, you can then print the layouts
directly onto transparency material).
paul
13 Apr
13 Apr
5:16 a.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
A couple of options, one I know, one I don't yet:
Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD tool
(Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in
schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version
that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you.
I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice
product.
I just checked the site, there is no Hobbiest pricing there.
I guess the state of of homebrew now days is a PIC and a few leds
on 2x3 inch board.
There's also www.pcb123.com, which is a PCB shop
that offers a
freeware PCB tool to go with their service. I think the trick is that
it's tied to their PCB fab, but their prices don't seem to be fairly
reasonable. I haven't tried that yet. That one doesn't seem to have
any size limits.
From my quick reading, it does not have a schematic entry program.
paul
Also what platform is needed for PCB design too. If you dig on the web
you can still find easytrax's for DOS.
Ben.
6:26 a.m.
>>>> "ben" == ben franchuk
<bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> writes:
ben> Paul Koning wrote:
> A couple of options, one I know, one I don't
yet:
>
> Cadsoft (www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD
> tool (Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in
> schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit
> version that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might
> work for you. I've been using an older version for some time now,
> it's quite a nice product.
ben> I just checked the site, there is no Hobbiest pricing there. I
ben> guess the state of of homebrew now days is a PIC and a few leds
ben> on 2x3 inch board.
I'm confused.
Free version: http://www.cadsoftusa.com/freeware.htm
Low cost hobbyist version: http://www.cadsoftusa.com/nonprofit.htm
paul
6:31 a.m.
Cadsoft
(www.cadsoft.de or www.cadsoftusa.com) has a nice PCB CAD tool
(Eagle CAD). There's a freeware version, but it's limited in
schematic and PCB size. There's also a low cost non-profit version
that's still somewhat limited but a lot less, it might work for you.
I've been using an older version for some time now, it's quite a nice
product.
I just checked the site, there is no Hobbiest pricing there.
I guess the state of of homebrew now days is a PIC and a few leds
on 2x3 inch board.
9:03 a.m.
vrs wrote:
The Freeware version is the hobby version. The next
level up is the
"Non-Profit" version. Beyond that they assume you are doing real work (that
pays for itself somehow) and want you to subsidize their development with
real $$$ for licensing.
Well my homebrew computer uses about 125 TTL ( We don't need no stinking
VLSI ) that I plan to build with the CPU on about 6 6 x 8 inch PCB's.
That layout sounds like real work to me. The price of the software buys
a lot of TTL.
11:01 a.m.
Well my homebrew computer uses about 125 TTL ( We
don't need no stinking
VLSI ) that I plan to build with the CPU on about 6 6 x 8 inch PCB's.
That layout sounds like real work to me. The price of the software buys
a lot of TTL.
Well, If you can settle for 4 x 6 inches (roughly), you can get everything
needed for $125. That seems not too bad to me, for software I actually like
to use, as opposed to "can get by with".
Agreed, the $1200 (that I paid) for the unlimited version is a ton of money
for software. (Maybe you are the target audience for PCB123 :-).)
On the other hand, I was just not impressed with the alternatives to Eagle.
Vince
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days inactive
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14 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
brad＠heeltoe.com -
dvcorbin＠optonline.net -
GOOI＠oce.nl -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
vrs＠msn.com