27 Aug
2009
27 Aug
'09
6:03 a.m.
Hello all,
I'm doing an analysis of trends in the energy efficiency of
computation over time (for details, see the first report listed at
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/ecotech)
.
I'm using standardized performance measure from previous work by Bill
Nordhaus at Yale, and then attaching measured power use to the
machines for which Bill estimated performance.
I got measured power data for the DEC PDP-1, PDP-4, and PDP-8 from
Gordon Bell (now at Microsoft, who worked on these machines back in
the day) but am seeking measured power use for some of the other
machines listed below. I understand that some of these machines may
not be unitary and so power measurements are more complicated. I'm
interested in the sum of power consumption for the CPU, memory, and
hard drives for typical configuration of the machines listed below.
Ideally, this power measurement would be taken when the machine is
running full bore, but I'll take what I can get.
Does anyone have any measured power use handy?
Thanks,
Jon Koomey
Power use
Watts
1960 Digital PDP-1 2160 From Gordon Bell
1962 DEC PDP-4 1125 From Gordon Bell
1965 DEC PDP-8 780 From Gordon Bell
1968 DEC PDP-10 (KA10)
1971 DEC PDP-11/20
1972 DEC PDP-11/05 (11/10)
1972 DEC PDP-11/45
1972 DEC PDP-10 (KI10)
1973 DEC PDP-11/40
1975 DEC PDP-11/03 (LSI-11)
1975 DEC PDP-11/04
1975 DEC PDP-11/70
1975 DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060)
1976 DEC PDP-11/34
1976 DEC PDP-11/55
1977 DEC PDP-11/60
1978 DEC PDP-11/34C
1978 Digital VAX 780
1979 DEC VAX 11/780
1983 DEC VAX 11/730
1983 Digital VAX 750
1985 DEC VAX 11/750
1985 DEC VAX 11/780
1986 DEC VAX 8550
1987 DEC VAX 8350
1990 DEC VAX 6000-210
1990 DEC VAX 6000-460
1993 DEC 7000-610
1994 DEC 10000-610
1997 DEC 8400/5/350 x6
__________________________________
Jonathan G. Koomey, Ph.D.
Project Scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
Consulting Professor, Department of Civil and Environmental
Engineering, Stanford University
27 Aug
27 Aug
2:46 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
Jonathan Koomey wrote:
I got measured power data for the DEC PDP-1
Power use
Watts
1960 Digital PDP-1 2160 From Gordon Bell
I'm sure the PDP-1 restoration team would be happy to
give you the figures for the machine running at the CHM.
1975 DEC PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060)
Rich Alderson should be able to get the figures for the 2065.
Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including peripherals?
2:59 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Al Kossow wrote:
Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or including
peripherals?
I was wondering this myself. This is an interesting topic, but it might be
difficult to define a "standard" configuration for these machines. Even the
contents of the CPU boxes can vary widely. I suspect that many on this list
are like me and tend to limit what what boards are in our CPU's to just what
we need. How many people really need the CIS (Commercial Instruction Set)
portion of the CPU in their PDP-11/44's or 3 Serial boards for terminals? I
also limit the drives to what I need typically (I've even been known to
unplug CD drives on PC's).
Zane
3:44 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running
the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible"
to run it.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed
that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
On Aug 27, 2009, at 4:59 PM, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Al Kossow wrote:
Also, are you just talking about the CPU, or
including peripherals?
I was wondering this myself. This is an interesting topic, but it
might be
difficult to define a "standard" configuration for these machines.
Even the
contents of the CPU boxes can vary widely. I suspect that many on
this list
are like me and tend to limit what what boards are in our CPU's to
just what
we need. How many people really need the CIS (Commercial
Instruction Set)
portion of the CPU in their PDP-11/44's or 3 Serial boards for
terminals? I
also limit the drives to what I need typically (I've even been known
to
unplug CD drives on PC's).
Zane
4:20 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I
shouldn't be running the KS10
because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it.
So you have your KS10 running now days?
I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and
also believed that
farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
<snicker!> No comment.
Zane
4:33 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
Yes, if "running" means "turned on and executing instructions".
I've
been (very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run
an OS yet.
So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape on it
(both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. That
project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done.
I make it a point to let it run at least a few minutes a month so the
caps don't dry out. I'd feel terrible if I neglected it to death. I've
already done enough damage.
On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me
I shouldn't be running
the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible"
to run it.
So you have your KS10 running now days?
I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not
that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear.
The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on
a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less
heat.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA
activists and also believed
that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
<snicker!> No comment.
Zane
4:43 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
Yes, if "running" means "turned on and
executing instructions". I've been
(very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run an OS yet.
So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape on it
(both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. That
project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done.
How are you loading the microcode?
I make it a point to let it run at least a few minutes
a month so the caps
don't dry out. I'd feel terrible if I neglected it to death. I've already
done enough damage.
This is pointless - the caps are OK, and will be OK for some time. You
are probably doing more damage by power cycling the thing needlessly
(even if by a tiny amount).
--
Will
4:50 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:43 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
Console line is plugged into another computer that has a program that
sends over the microcode and software.
It takes a long time.
Yes, if
"running" means "turned on and executing instructions". I've
been
(very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run an
OS yet.
So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape on
it
(both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet. That
project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done.
How are you loading the microcode? This is pointless - the caps are OK, and will be OK
for some time. You
are probably doing more damage by power cycling the thing needlessly
(even if by a tiny amount).
Well, I was letting it warm up when it ran, I know better than to just
turn it on and just off again.
How long is it safe to let it sit, then? (There's also the fans to
worry about.)
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:50 PM, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
Console line is plugged into another computer that has a program
that sends over the microcode and software.
It takes a long time.
I'll bet. Would you be interested in sharing this? I'd like to
fire up my KS10 one of these days.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Yes, if "running" means "turned on and
executing instructions".
I've been
(very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run
an OS yet.
So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape
on it
(both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet.
That
project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done.
How are you loading the microcode?
5:29 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:50 PM, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
Console line is plugged into another computer that has a program that
sends over the microcode and software.
It takes a long time.
I'll bet. Would you be interested in sharing this? I'd like to
fire up my KS10 one of these days.
Do you mean the SCSI driver or the microcode/RAM loader?
The SCSI driver is pretty useless without a Viking UDT controller, but
the RAM loader can be shared around.
I'll pull it off the other computer later and post it. I already gave a
copy to Rich (I think?).
Fair warning, it's terribly simple. All it does is dump deposit
commands to the console processor.
One of these days I should get un-lazy and make it more clever.
Yes, if "running" means "turned on and
executing instructions".
I've been
(very slowly) hacking up a SCSI driver for it, but it doesn't run
an OS yet.
So far I've put a filesystem on a disk and restored a minsys tape
on it
(both SCSI devices) but I haven't made a timesharing driver yet.
That
project is set aside for a while so I can get other things done.
How are you loading the microcode?
5:49 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
Do you mean the SCSI driver or the microcode/RAM
loader?
The SCSI driver is pretty useless without a Viking UDT controller, but the
RAM loader can be shared around.
Viking UDT controllers aren't that hard to get, they might not be as common
as a CMD controller, but I suspect they're still pretty easy to get. Much
easier than PDP-10 drives.
I'll pull it off the other computer later and post
it. I already gave a copy
to Rich (I think?).
Fair warning, it's terribly simple. All it does is dump deposit commands to
the console processor.
One of these days I should get un-lazy and make it more clever.
You've still made pretty good progress from the sounds of things. I've been
wondering if the machine was still alive, and what ever happened to it.
Zane
5:04 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
Console line is plugged into another computer that has
a program that sends
over the microcode and software.
It takes a long time.
I did not know you could feed the brains thru the serial line - I
thought it had to be from one of the few peripherals KS10s like. Good
to know.
Well, I was letting it warm up when it ran, I know
better than to just turn
it on and just off again.
How long is it safe to let it sit, then? (There's also the fans to worry
about.)
Years. "Modern" caps do not "unform" very quickly at all. There is a
much greater risk of blowing a cap because a seal has gone bad, and
there is nothing that can stop that.
--
Will
4:38 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:20 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that
statement. Not
that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC
gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX
on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT*
less heat.
...if software is your only interest...
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
4:41 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
NOT poo-pooing emulators, mind you...I run them every day. (I
know how touchy this crowd is!)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I hate to
admit it, but there is some merit to that statement.
Not that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC
gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or
VAX on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT*
less heat.
...if software is your only interest...
4:56 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
NOT poo-pooing emulators, mind you...I run them every day. (I know how
touchy this crowd is!)
And note that in that same paragraph I said I'm not about to stop running my
old DEC gear, or my '72 Dodge Pickup. At the same time I make definite use
of PDP-10 and PDP-11 emulators. I really can't be bothered with a VAX
emulator.
Zane
I hate to
admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that
it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat.
...if software is your only interest...
4:59 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
NOT poo-pooing emulators, mind you...I run them every day. (I
know how touchy this crowd is!)
And note that in that same paragraph I said I'm not about to stop
running my
old DEC gear, or my '72 Dodge Pickup. At the same time I make
definite use
of PDP-10 and PDP-11 emulators.
:-)
Yeah, there are some VERY low-power VAXen out
there that are
rather quick. It does seem kinda pointless.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I hate to
admit it, but there is some merit to that statement.
Not that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC
gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or
VAX on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT*
less heat.
...if software is your only interest... I really can't be bothered with a VAX emulator.
5:45 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
Yeah, there are some VERY low-power VAXen out there
that are rather quick.
It does seem kinda pointless.
I'm not sure how low-power my VAXstation 4000/60 is, it took over my VLC's
duties when the fans on the PS crapped out (just like a BA350 took over from
the dead BA353). While I could get away with emulating PDXVAX, it would
probably be more trouble than it's worth. There is no way I could emulate
my MV III, as I use it to talk to RL01 and RL02 drives. I have more VAXen,
but those are the two main ones.
Zane
11:18 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
Zane H. Healy wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
Didn't someone make a laptop out of a VLC at some point?
Peace... Sridhar
Yeah, there are some VERY low-power VAXen out
there that are rather
quick. It does seem kinda pointless.
I'm not sure how low-power my VAXstation 4000/60 is, it took over my VLC's
duties when the fans on the PS crapped out (just like a BA350 took over
from
the dead BA353). While I could get away with emulating PDXVAX, it would
probably be more trouble than it's worth. There is no way I could emulate
my MV III, as I use it to talk to RL01 and RL02 drives. I have more VAXen,
but those are the two main ones.
28 Aug
28 Aug
11:11 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
> I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the KS10
> because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it.
Oh, not on this list, please...!
I am seriouisly thinking of declaring myself 'magenta' (this being the
opposite of 'green', of course). The amount of bad science that pretends
to be 'saving the planet' is rapidly getting to me. As are the totally
stupid restrictions that do nothing useful (the fact that we can no
longer bugy filament lamps is going to make repairing SMPSUs a lot
harder, possibly leading to more electronics in the landfills. Perhaps I
should just get a couple of 'greens' and use them as a series limiting
resistor!).
So you have your KS10 running now days?
I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat.
Not if you want to do something other than run the software...
And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the (normal)
heating up...
-tony
11:28 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
> > I had one of my kid sister's friends
tell me I shouldn't be running the
> > KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible"
to run
> > it.
She may have not been able to see well. There is a specific cortical test for
this, but you can approximate it by extending the hand's third digit in view
of the test recipient and repeating it in each of their visual fields.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -- Carl Sagan --------------
11:35 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Aug 28, 2009, at 2:28 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
soda -> monitor
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
>> I had
one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be
>> running the
>> KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible"
>> to run
>> it.
She may have not been able to see well. There is a specific
cortical test for
this, but you can approximate it by extending the hand's third
digit in view
of the test recipient and repeating it in each of their visual fields.
5:31 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
She may have not been able to see well. There is a
specific cortical test for
this, but you can approximate it by extending the hand's third digit in view
of the test recipient and repeating it in each of their visual fields.
I would take this test over the other one finger test a doctor can administer.
--
Will
11:32 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
Now there's the ecological argument: it's a room heater that also delivers
computation. Can your heat pump do a Taylor series? :-)
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
Tony Duell [ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:11 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
> I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the
KS10
> because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run it.
Oh, not on this list, please...!
I am seriouisly thinking of declaring myself 'magenta' (this being the
opposite of 'green', of course). The amount of bad science that pretends
to be 'saving the planet' is rapidly getting to me. As are the totally
stupid restrictions that do nothing useful (the fact that we can no
longer bugy filament lamps is going to make repairing SMPSUs a lot
harder, possibly leading to more electronics in the landfills. Perhaps I
should just get a couple of 'greens' and use them as a series limiting
resistor!).
So you have your KS10 running now days?
I hate to admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat.
Not if you want to do something other than run the software...
And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the (normal)
heating up...
-tony
3:07 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Realistically, that's the main time I have one of my PDP-11's running, in
part so that I don't have to worry about cooling. For much of what I do,
when I have time, an emulator is good enough. I hope to get the /73 put
back together in the very near future. It has been in pieces now for
basically a year.
Zane
I hate to
admit it, but there is some merit to that statement. Not that it
stops me from driving my '72 Dodge Pickup or running my old DEC gear. The
fact of the matter is that you can emulate a PDP-10, PDP-11, or VAX on a
Mini-ITX box that uses a *LOT* less power and generates a *LOT* less heat.
Not if you want to do something other than run the software...
And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the (normal)
heating up... 
31 Aug
31 Aug
7:19 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tony Duell<ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
And remember, if you don't run you PDP11, you have
to turn the (normal)
heating up...
In general thermodynamic terms, yes, but where I live, primary winter
heat is usually natural gas or propane (for those at the fringes of
town outside of the extensive natural gas network), and heating with
electricity here is much more expensive than burning gas. For those
that live in parts of the world where electric heat is the best/only
choice, you might as well pass those electrons through something that
gives you compute cycles vs a big, fat load resistor.
On the "green" aspect of this - I recently saw an article that for
many households, there are enough incandescents left on around the
house that they impact the amount of heat the furnace needs to put out
to achieve the desired house temperature (i.e., switching to CFLs
shifts more energy load to the primary furnace because you have "lost"
a few hundred watts of ambient heat being poured into the house
through the bulbs). OTOH, it's a double win in the summer if you have
AC (I do not) - less heat from the bulbs means less load on the AC.
-ethan
7:32 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Monday 31 August 2009, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I've noticed this as well. I calculated based on my gas and electric
bills, that electricity costs me about $0.10/kWh, and natural gas comes
out to about $0.02/kWh (given 100% efficient conversion). Given a
cross-over point of about 20% efficiency, this has made me wonder if it
wouldn't be cheaper to get (at least most of) my power from a natural
gas generator outside of my house, than from the power company (and in
the process, cause less coal to be burned). Of course, I'm not sure how
much my neighbors would appreciate a generator running 24x7..
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcac
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Tony Duell<ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
And remember,
if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the
(normal) heating up...
In general thermodynamic terms, yes, but where I live, primary winter
heat is usually natural gas or propane (for those at the fringes of
town outside of the extensive natural gas network), and heating with
electricity here is much more expensive than burning gas. For those
that live in parts of the world where electric heat is the best/only
choice, you might as well pass those electrons through something that
gives you compute cycles vs a big, fat load resistor. 
9:09 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
I've noticed this as well. I calculated based on
my gas and electric
bills, that electricity costs me about $0.10/kWh, and natural gas comes
out to about $0.02/kWh (given 100% efficient conversion). Given a
cross-over point of about 20% efficiency, this has made me wonder if it
wouldn't be cheaper to get (at least most of) my power from a natural
gas generator outside of my house, than from the power company (and in
the process, cause less coal to be burned). Of course, I'm not sure how
much my neighbors would appreciate a generator running 24x7..
A)POWER COMPANIES are greedy!
B)LINES cost $$$ to up-keep
C) THEY NEED $$$ to pay for glossy advertising -- use us rather than them.
Pat
PS: I wonder what brand of computers sre now
used in Nucular Power
plants. Straight 8's seem to be a bit dated for new plants.
D) Stupid spending on useless projects.
1 Sep
1 Sep
2:21 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
I've noticed this as well. I calculated based on
my gas and electric
bills, that electricity costs me about $0.10/kWh, and natural gas comes
out to about $0.02/kWh (given 100% efficient conversion). Given a
It's more like EUR 0.20/kWh (electricity) and EUR 0.04/kWh (gas) here...
And to be on topic: my fully loaded 11/45 (MOS memory, though) with one
RK05, one RL02 and one RX02, everything up and running, needs about 1800
watts. I could nearly run two of those systems on one fuse.
Christian
2:39 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens Christian Corti
Verzonden: dinsdag 1 september 2009 11:21
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
In the Netherlands you can buy small heat-power coupling units witch produce
central heating and electricity from natural gas.
In combination with a few solar cells you could run on only natural gas.
And I'm living on top the greatest gas field of Western-Europe a few hundred
meters away from the outlet point ;-)
My HP 1000 with a internal HP 9712R drive is using about 1kVA when it's
running.
-Rik
I've noticed this as well. I calculated
based on my gas
and electric
bills, that electricity costs me about $0.10/kWh,
and natural gas
comes out to about $0.02/kWh (given 100% efficient
conversion). Given
a
It's more like EUR 0.20/kWh (electricity) and EUR 0.04/kWh
(gas) here...
And to be on topic: my fully loaded 11/45 (MOS memory,
though) with one RK05, one RL02 and one RX02, everything up
and running, needs about 1800 watts. I could nearly run two
of those systems on one fuse.
Christian
31 Aug
31 Aug
11:03 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC
On Aug 31, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
If incandescent lighting load is a significant percentage of your
in-home heat generation, then I respectfully submit that you don't
have enough computer hardware.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
And remember,
if you don't run you PDP11, you have to turn the
(normal)
heating up...
In general thermodynamic terms, yes, but where I live, primary winter
heat is usually natural gas or propane (for those at the fringes of
town outside of the extensive natural gas network), and heating with
electricity here is much more expensive than burning gas. For those
that live in parts of the world where electric heat is the best/only
choice, you might as well pass those electrons through something that
gives you compute cycles vs a big, fat load resistor.
On the "green" aspect of this - I recently saw an article that for
many households, there are enough incandescents left on around the
house that they impact the amount of heat the furnace needs to put out
to achieve the desired house temperature (i.e., switching to CFLs
shifts more energy load to the primary furnace because you have "lost"
a few hundred watts of ambient heat being poured into the house
through the bulbs). OTOH, it's a double win in the summer if you have
AC (I do not) - less heat from the bulbs means less load on the AC.
27 Aug
27 Aug
4:27 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
Daniel Seagraves wrote:
I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I
shouldn't be running the
KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run
it.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed
that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
"Why are you laughing at me?"
"I'm laughing at you because you're a moron."
Peace... Sridhar
4:37 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
Well, to be fair, the amount of propaganda she was raised with would
make Goebbels proud.
On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Daniel Seagraves wrote:
I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me
I shouldn't be running
the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible"
to run it.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed
that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
"Why are you laughing at me?"
"I'm laughing at you because you're a moron."
Peace... Sridhar
4:39 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
The domain peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) went away nearly
fifteen years ago. I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007.
And I was only the tech contact!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I had one of
my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be
running the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically
irresponsible" to run it.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also
believed that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
"Why are you laughing at me?"
"I'm laughing at you because you're a moron." 
7:07 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:27 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
The domain peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) went away nearly fifteen
years ago. I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007. And I was only the
tech contact!
That was an _awesome_ site Dave. I sitll miss it. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
I had one
of my kid sister's friends tell me I shouldn't be running the
KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically irresponsible" to run
it.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed that
farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
"Why are you laughing at me?"
"I'm laughing at you because you're a moron." 
9:15 p.m.
New subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750...
I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750 has to go,
includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of dec
schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its located
in Carmel, NY 10512
I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up or
make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off to a
new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please.
Curt
9:24 p.m.
New subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750...
Looks like direct reply failed so I'm posting to the list:
Can you hold on to this one for a day or two? I assume it's working.
Also are any peripherals included?
Thank you!
--Dave
On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:15 AM, "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com
wrote:
I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750
has to go,
includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of
dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its
located in Carmel, NY 10512
I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up
or make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off
to a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please.
Curt
9:31 p.m.
New subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750...
Hi David,
No peripherals, just the main system only with all of the extra's
mentioned. The disks and tape drives are currently in active use on
my mv4000
Curt
David Ryskalczyk wrote:
Looks like direct reply failed so I'm posting to
the list:
Can you hold on to this one for a day or two? I assume it's working.
Also are any peripherals included?
Thank you!
--Dave
On Aug 28, 2009, at 12:15 AM, "Curt @ Atari Museum"
<curt at atarimuseum.com> wrote:
I need to make room in the garage, so my spare
11/750 has to go,
includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of dec
schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its
located in Carmel, NY 10512
I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up or
make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off to
a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please.
Curt
9:35 p.m.
New subject: Anybody have Dale Lucks email?
Anybody have Dale Lucks current email addr???
I haven't spoken with him since like 2004 and I need to ask him a few
Amiga related questions, so I am trying to get back in touch with him.
Curt
10:34 p.m.
New subject: Need to find a home for a Vax 11/750...
At 12:15 AM -0400 8/28/09, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
I need to make room in the garage, so my spare 11/750
has to go,
includes a box of tu58 tapes, a crate of spare boards, a stack of
dec schematics and technical print outs, some admin binders. Its
located in Carmel, NY 10512
I am looking for $300 for it all, buyer has to come and pick it up
or make any necessary arrangements. Really need this out and off
to a new home before Sept 15th, contact offlist please.
I'm really glad you're about 3000 miles away, that helps me to not be
tempted. :-) Besides I'm still trying to find room in our garage for
my PDP-11/44.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
31 Aug
31 Aug
8:58 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Dave McGuire<mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
?The domain peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals)
went away nearly fifteen
years ago. ?I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007. ?And I was only
the tech contact!
You were involved with that site? That's great. I've been telling
people about it for years. Other are free to disagree, but I think it
was hilarious.
-ethan
11:02 a.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 31, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Yeah, we had some fun with it. It was done by Mike Doughney, VP
and co-founder of Digex. It was in the very early days of the
company, and I was the tech contact on all domain registrations there
at the time. I also built and maintained the machine that hosted the
site, which was (initially) a Sun 3/60 in the aforementioned "blade
server" configuration.
I also handled the mail servers that had to contend with the flood
of hate mail about it. ;) Ahh, people who need to find hobbies.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
The domain
peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals) went away
nearly fifteen
years ago. I got hate mail about it as recently as 2007. And I
was only
the tech contact!
You were involved with that site? That's great. I've been telling
people about it for years. Other are free to disagree, but I think it
was hilarious.
27 Aug
27 Aug
5:02 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
I had one of my kid sister's friends tell me I
shouldn't be running
the KS10 because it's so old that it is "ecologically
irresponsible" to run it.
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and also
believed that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
Her parents probably drive a Hummer. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
5:16 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On 27 Aug 2009 at 17:44, Daniel Seagraves wrote:
(This person is the daughter of two PETA activists and
also believed
that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
And those poor naugas are needlessly slaughtered to get naugahyde...
:roll:
--Chuck
5:50 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
(This person
is the daughter of two PETA activists and also believed
that farmers had to kill cows to extract the milk.)
And those poor naugas are needlessly slaughtered to get naugahyde...
:roll: 
4:47 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
1975 ? ?DEC
PDP-10 (KL10/DEC2060)
Rich Alderson should be able to get the figures for the 2065.
4:51 p.m.
New subject: Looking for measured power consumption of some old DEC minicomputers
On Aug 27, 2009, at 7:47 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
As for a serious study, it would probably make sense
to include minis
outside the DEC world. Some brands were very efficient, then there was
IBM.
Urr? Are IBM's power supply designs less efficient than others,
or is it a matter of system-wide consumption?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
5353
days inactive
5358
days old
46 comments
20 participants
participants (20)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
d235j.1＠gmail.com -
dseagrav＠lunar-tokyo.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jgkoomey＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
vax＠purdue.edu -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com