In the long term, you should probably break down and get a good size frequency converter. -- Will On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com> wrote: > I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started > blowing fuses. > > I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on > Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers > specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems > with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant > transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating > - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them > at 90-100V but that doesn't help much. > > 1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or > transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are > 8715343 or 4119686. > > 2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so > easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations > for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use > 60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can > probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a > lot of 60Hz to run them... > > Thanks > > Mike > > http://www.corestore.org > 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. > Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. > For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

If you can get a rotary one, those are really nice - just wasteful and loud. With proper maintenance they last forever, can take a beating, and do not give waveshape issues that cheap solid state units can have. And, maybe most importantly, you can make one yourself. But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now (that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics. -- Will On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com> wrote: wrote:

Try IBM 3278. Hint: one of those popular terminal families in the world. -- Will

Ah, a terminal it is! Thank you. On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:30 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote: >> Sincere query.. as the goog turns up nothing meaningful.. > > Try IBM 3278. > > Hint: one of those popular terminal families in the world.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:52 AM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: Sadly, not as plentiful these days as vintage terminals. I've been on the lookout for one for the last couple of years just to add to my collection. Seems that keyboard collectors like the keyboards too because those I have found but not for sale lately.

That is easy, it is fairly common here. I know of a friend who has some. Enviado do meu Tele-Movel Em 22/12/2015 09:51, "Mike Ross" <tmfdmike at gmail.com> escreveu: > On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Santo Nucifora > <santo.nucifora at gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:52 AM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > wrote: > > > >> On 2015-Dec-22, at 2:28 AM, drlegendre . wrote: > >> > Ah, a terminal it is! Thank you. > >> > > >> > On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:30 PM, William Donzelli < > wdonzelli at gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >>> Sincere query.. as the goog turns up nothing meaningful.. > >> >> > >> >> Try IBM 3278. > >> >> > >> >> Hint: one of those popular terminal families in the world. > >> > > > > Sadly, not as plentiful these days as vintage terminals. I've been on > the > > lookout for one for the last couple of years just to add to my > collection. > > Seems that keyboard collectors like the keyboards too because those I > have > > found but not for sale lately. > > They do seem rather thin on the ground. I picked mine up... 15 years > ago now and they weren't that common then. And I had a *hell* of a > time finding a 3279 - the colour version - even then. > > Do we have any South American correspondents listening in? I'm sure I > read that IBM had a factory in Brazil producing these - and they kept > on churning 3278s out for some considerable time after the rest of the > world had moved on. I believe it was also stated that there was > considerable redesign using more modern components inside that classic > 3278 case on these later Brazilian examples. I'd certainly like to get > hold of a couple. > > Mike >

-----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Santo Nucifora Sent: 22 December 2015 12:00 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278 On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Alexandre Souza < alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com> wrote: I'd be interested in one, after Mike who started the thread. I am in Canada. Email me off list. Thanks, Santo Nucifora

His address is symphony.robotica at gmail.com. his name is Sergio. You can all talk directly to him. Enviado do meu Tele-Movel Em 22/12/2015 10:06, "Dave Wade" <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> escreveu: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Santo > > Nucifora > > Sent: 22 December 2015 12:00 > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > Subject: Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278 > > > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 6:55 AM, Alexandre Souza < > > alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > That is easy, it is fairly common here. I know of a friend who has > some. > > > > > > Enviado do meu Tele-Movel > > > Em 22/12/2015 09:51, "Mike Ross" <tmfdmike at gmail.com> escreveu: > > > > > > > Do we have any South American correspondents listening in? I'm sure > > > > I read that IBM had a factory in Brazil producing these - and they > > > > kept on churning 3278s out for some considerable time after the rest > > > > of the world had moved on. I believe it was also stated that there > > > > was considerable redesign using more modern components inside that > > > > classic > > > > 3278 case on these later Brazilian examples. I'd certainly like to > > > > get hold of a couple. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > I'd be interested in one, after Mike who started the thread. I am in > Canada. > > Email me off list. > > > > Thanks, > > Santo Nucifora > > > Well I have been looking for one in the UK with no luck. I have some > ICL/Nokia clones but not a real 3270 > > Dave > >

His address is symphony.robotica at gmail.com. his name is Sergio. You can all talk directly to him. Enviado do meu Tele-Movel Em 22/12/2015 10:06, "Dave Wade" <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> escreveu: rest

On 12/21/2015 09:03 PM, William Donzelli wrote: You can't run electronics with VFDs designed to run motors, only. They put out PWM chopped square waves at 300+ Volts. A motor's winding inductance smooths that out to a proper current waveform, and it only causes a little extra eddy current losses. But, typical transformers will have real fits with that kind of waveform. There are "frequency changers" made by Elgar and others that will do the job right, but they will cost a REAL bundle of cash! (Also known as frequency converters.) It may be possible to retune the resonant circuit of the constant voltage transformer by adding capacitance in parallel to the existing capacitor. Jon

Hmmmm. I do have a massive idler motor - as in it takes two people to even think about lifting it - from my days in NY when I had to manufacture a 3rd phase to make the S/3 and other items work... I wonder if I could do anything using that as a starting point? Three phase is no problem here... previous owner of house was a woodworker and I have 3-phase 50Hz 400V straight to the workshop already wired in :-) Finagle's law says 90% of my 3-phase big iron was acquired in the USA and expects 3-phase 60Hz 208V... :-( Mike On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 4:03 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote: > If you can get a rotary one, those are really nice - just wasteful and > loud. With proper maintenance they last forever, can take a beating, > and do not give waveshape issues that cheap solid state units can > have. And, maybe most importantly, you can make one yourself. > > But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now > (that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a > real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give > ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics. > > -- > Will > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com> wrote: >> Any recommendations for what type? Are solid-state devices up to the >> job these days? I still remember rotary converters... >> >> Mike >> >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 3:45 PM, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote: >>> In the long term, you should probably break down and get a good size >>> frequency converter. >>> >>> -- >>> Will >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, Mike Ross <tmfdmike at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I recently blew up a 3278... it worked ok for a few hours then started >>>> blowing fuses. >>>> >>>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on >>>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers >>>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems >>>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant >>>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating >>>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them >>>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much. >>>> >>>> 1. Does anyone in a 50Hz country have any dead/spare 3278s and/or >>>> transformers for them? The IBM part number for the 50Hz 220V are >>>> 8715343 or 4119686. >>>> >>>> 2. I have other equipment where this will be an issue and not so >>>> easily solved. Does anyone have any experience in or recommendations >>>> for frequency conversion equipment? My System/3s for instance all use >>>> 60Hz ferroresonants operating off 208V 3-phase - now voltage can >>>> probably be retapped or easily converted but I still need to make a >>>> lot of 60Hz to run them... >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> http://www.corestore.org >>>> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. >>>> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. >>>> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.' >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://www.corestore.org >> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. >> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. >> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

On 12/22/2015 10:25 AM, William Donzelli wrote: An isolation transformer will NOT "clean up" a VFD's output. The output of a VFD is NOT some dirty sine wave, it is a train of 400 V PWM pulses with perhaps a 15 KHz carrier frequency. It could be filtered, but would take a filter built out of a bunch of HUGE inductors and capacitors. It might actually be a decent solution for keeping museum-quality gear running in an unaltered state, but it isn't something you could whip up in a couple hours in your garage. Jon

Find a property with its own little water power station ? And then rebuild the generator into a 60 Hz one.

But considering the mix of 50 and 60 Hz stuff you likely have by now (that is what you get for moving!), spending some decent money on a real VFD might be worth it. I might think a cheap VFD may give ferroresonant iron fits with all those extra harmonics.

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015, William Donzelli wrote: I don't see how a Vacuum Fluorescent Display is of any help here... Or what do you mean by VFD?

Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread... ...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be swapped, depending on the equipment. I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the Big Horse at Endicott.

Of course! Find the exception that proves the rule!

-- Will On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote: > > On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote: >> Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread... >> >>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on >>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers >>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems >>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant >>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating >>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them >>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much. >> ...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant >> transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be >> swapped, depending on the equipment. >> >> I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the >> Big Horse at Endicott. > > I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different part > numbers for the > ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part > number for the > capacitor. > > TTFN - Guy

I bet you (or Mike, actually) could get it to work by trial and error, swapping in caps. The transformers (generally) are apparently pretty forgiving - being off in frequency just results in lost efficiency, maybe 10-15 percent lost at most. Not flames, anyway. -- Will On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote: > > > On 12/30/15 9:29 PM, William Donzelli wrote: >> >> Of course! Find the exception that proves the rule! > > > ;-) However, it would've been nice if it were only necessary to change > the capacitor! > > TTFN - Guy > >> >> -- >> Will >> >> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Guy Sotomayor <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote: >>>> >>>> Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread... >>>> >>>>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on >>>>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers >>>>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems >>>>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant >>>>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating >>>>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them >>>>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much. >>>> >>>> ...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant >>>> transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be >>>> swapped, depending on the equipment. >>>> >>>> I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the >>>> Big Horse at Endicott. >>> >>> >>> I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different part >>> numbers for the >>> ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part >>> number for the >>> capacitor. >>> >>> TTFN - Guy > >

On 12/30/2015 11:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote: Order a boatload of 8kw honda generators? I think you could get 40 amps

I know for the mainframe power that might not be high enough, but on

thanks JIm

On 2015-12-31 7:17 AM, Mike Ross wrote: > > On Jan 1, 2016 12:05 AM, "jwsmobile" <jws at jwsss.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/30/2015 11:45 PM, Mike Ross wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the thought... my main concern is the System/3s and Henk >>> Stegeman - who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about >>> S/3! - says that 60Hz S/3 on 50Hz power is a no-go. Different voltage, >>> fine - transformer can be restrapped. Different frequency... trouble! >>> >>> And then there are rotary machines of course. I bet you half my disks >>> drives need the right frequency or a spindle pulley change.. and even >>> then *they* probably have ferroresonants in their power... >>> >>> Mike >> >> Order a boatload of 8kw honda generators? I think you could get 40 amps > > out of them. Any reason the power has to be in phase? >> >> I know for the mainframe power that might not be high enough, but on > > smaller machines it would take care of the problem. >> >> thanks >> JIm > > Jim most of my 'interesting' machines - both S/3s, S/38, 1800, big disk > drives - do need three phase 60Hz. The 2741s, 3741, 5496, S/32, S/34, & > S/36 are single phase but almost certainly need 60Hz for power supplies > and/or disk drives > > On the plus side all of the stuff I brought over from the UK will work

All of those IBM machines you listed will have resonant capacitors in the

Paul.

On 2015-12-31 7:17 AM, Mike Ross wrote: All of those IBM machines you listed will have resonant capacitors in the power supplies, and all have at least one synchronous motor inside, not to mention all of the AC fans inside the machines. Paul.