17 Oct
2015
17 Oct
'15
4:21 p.m.
I have two "flippy organizers" (that's around 20 floppies each) full of
these oddball floppies.
Picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22020178558/in/dateposted/
They are 8", hard sectored, and the sectors are on the outer edge rather
than the hub, and there is an odd cutout on one edge that goes inside the
drive.
I know I don't have a machine that uses these, so they are available for
trade.
J
17 Oct
17 Oct
4:30 p.m.
On 10/17/2015 04:21 PM, Jay West wrote:
I have two "flippy organizers" (that's
around 20 floppies each) full
of these oddball floppies.
Picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22020178558/in/dateposted/
They are 8", hard sectored, and the sectors are on the outer edge
rather than the hub, and there is an odd cutout on one edge that goes
inside the drive.
I know I don't have a machine that uses these, so they are available
for trade.
Memorex 651 floppies:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/memorex/disc/651.60-05_651…
--Chuck
7:59 p.m.
I think it was Wang that used the outside holes.
Dwight
Subject: Re: Oddball floppies for trade - 8", HS
(outer edge), weird cutout
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
From: cclist at sydex.com
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:30:16 -0700
On 10/17/2015 04:21 PM, Jay West wrote:
I have two "flippy organizers"
(that's around 20 floppies each) full
of these oddball floppies.
Picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22020178558/in/dateposted/
They are 8", hard sectored, and the sectors are on the outer edge
rather than the hub, and there is an odd cutout on one edge that goes
inside the drive.
I know I don't have a machine that uses these, so they are available
for trade.
Memorex 651 floppies:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/memorex/disc/651.60-05_651…
--Chuck 
18 Oct
18 Oct
3 a.m.
s?ndag 18 oktober 2015 skrev dwight <dkelvey at hotmail.com>:
I think it was Wang that used the outside holes.
Dwight
And the Incoterm intelligent terminals used them as well.
http://www.datormuseum.se/peripherals/terminals/incoterm-spd-20-20
/Mattis
Subject: Re:
Oddball floppies for trade - 8", HS (outer edge), weird
cutout
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
<javascript:;>
From: cclist at sydex.com <javascript:;>
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:30:16 -0700
On 10/17/2015 04:21 PM, Jay West wrote:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/memorex/disc/651.60-05_651…
I have two "flippy organizers"
(that's around 20 floppies each) full
of these oddball floppies.
Picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22020178558/in/dateposted/
They are 8", hard sectored, and the sectors are on the outer edge
rather than the hub, and there is an odd cutout on one edge that goes
inside the drive.
I know I don't have a machine that uses these, so they are available
for trade.
Memorex 651 floppies:
--Chuck
10:50 a.m.
Did the disks for the original IBM 23FD "Minnow" floppy disk also have
the sector/index hole near the edge, like the Memorex 650/651? The
Minnow was used as a read-only device for loading microcode, and the
disks were only factory written. I haven't seen an actual Minnow disk,
but since Memorex was one of the companies making plug-compatible
equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if they designed the 650/651 medium
to be mechanically interchangeable with the 23FD disks.
The Memorex 650/651 supported read/write use, and had more than twice
the formatted capacity of the 23FD, so the on-disk format clearly
didn't match the 23FD.
11:51 a.m.
On 10/18/2015 10:50 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
Did the disks for the original IBM 23FD
"Minnow" floppy disk also
have the sector/index hole near the edge, like the Memorex 650/651?
The Minnow was used as a read-only device for loading microcode, and
the disks were only factory written. I haven't seen an actual Minnow
disk, but since Memorex was one of the companies making
plug-compatible equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if they designed
the 650/651 medium to be mechanically interchangeable with the 23FD
disks.
The Memorex 650/651 supported read/write use, and had more than
twice the formatted capacity of the 23FD, so the on-disk format
clearly didn't match the 23FD.
To the best of my recollection, the Minnow used disks with 8 sector
holes. I don't recall the modulation scheme, but FM would be reasonable.
--Chuck
2:46 p.m.
On 10/18/2015 01:49 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
My recollection is on the outside. Makes sense, too--far easier to get
those punched accurately.
--Chuck
To the best of
my recollection, the Minnow used disks with 8 sector
holes. I don't recall the modulation scheme, but FM would be
reasonable.
Sure, but were the holes on the outside, like the Memorex, or near
the spindle, like all later 8-inch floppy drives? 
3:56 p.m.
On 2015-10-18 6:46 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 10/18/2015 01:49 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
My recollection is on the outside. Makes sense, too--far easier to
get those punched accurately.
--Chuck
Page 518 of IBM's 360 and Early 370 systems says "On Minnow, the
start
fo a sector had been indicated by eight sector holes uniformly spaced
around the outer edge of the disk"
It goes on to say that when the first read/write drive was developed
(Igar) the hard sector holes where dropped in favour of more usable
surface are. I have seen the diskettes for minnow and and they where
considerably less floppy than the later diskette.
It is hardly surprising that Memorex followed this scheme in those days
they where famous poaching engineers and producing clones of IBM storage
products. I remember a customer having a Memorex disk unit on a string
of 3370s and I think you could have swapped parts between the Memorex
unit and a 3370.
To the
best of my recollection, the Minnow used disks with 8 sector
holes. I don't recall the modulation scheme, but FM would be
reasonable.
Sure, but were the holes on the outside, like the Memorex, or near
the spindle, like all later 8-inch floppy drives?
6 p.m.
On 10/18/2015 03:56 PM, Paul Berger wrote:
It goes on to say that when the first read/write drive
was developed
(Igar) the hard sector holes where dropped in favour of more usable
surface are. I have seen the diskettes for minnow and and they
where considerably less floppy than the later diskette.
The Memorex 650 accommodated 64 tracks/cylinders instead of the later
and more customary 77. It's worthwhile noting that the 651 implements
FM on the drive--there's no "raw data" signal output.
It is hardly surprising that Memorex followed this
scheme in those
days they where famous poaching engineers and producing clones of IBM
storage products. I remember a customer having a Memorex disk unit
on a string of 3370s and I think you could have swapped parts between
the Memorex unit and a 3370.
IBM occupied a large segment of the market and was a favorite target for
lots of followers. If you just observe the passage of Memorex through
the history of acquisitions and being acquired and sold, it's truly
amazing that Memorex still exists--as a brand of Imation.
--Chuck
8:39 p.m.
On 10/18/2015 08:00 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
IBM occupied a large segment of the market and was a
favorite target for lots of followers. If you just
observe the passage of Memorex through the history of
acquisitions and being acquired and sold, it's truly
amazing that Memorex still exists--as a brand of Imation.
As 3rd party vendors in
the IBM plug-compatible arena went,
Memorex was pretty large. We had an IBM shop at Washington
University, but after the CPUs, practically the whole room
went to Memorex-supported gear. They get 3330-compatible
drives, later upgraded to 3350-compatible, and maybe later
upgraded again. They used Memorex 3674 controllers (they
had 2 of them). They had at least one Memorex 1270 com
controller. They had two 370/145s with AMS/Intersil 1 Meg
memory units, installed and supported by Memorex. I can't
recall specifics, but I think there were other memorex units
there, too.
Jon
10:14 p.m.
On 10/18/2015 08:39 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
As 3rd party vendors in the IBM plug-compatible arena
went, Memorex
was pretty large. We had an IBM shop at Washington University, but
after the CPUs, practically the whole room went to Memorex-supported
gear. They get 3330-compatible drives, later upgraded to
3350-compatible, and maybe later upgraded again. They used Memorex
3674 controllers (they had 2 of them). They had at least one Memorex
1270 com controller. They had two 370/145s with AMS/Intersil 1 Meg
memory units, installed and supported by Memorex. I can't recall
specifics, but I think there were other memorex units there, too.
I had a friend who worked for Telex back in day; she lost her job when
Telex girded itself for the legal dustup against IBM. (Telex sued IBM
for anti-competitive practices; IBM countersued for copyright
infringement.) This was back in the day that it seemed that everyone
was suing IBM.
Telex was acquired by Memorex back in the 80s.
--Chuck
19 Oct
19 Oct
10:20 a.m.
On 10/18/15 6:00 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
it's truly amazing that Memorex still exists--as a
brand of Imation.
Thank Ella Fitzgerald
"Is it live, or is it Memorex"
http://www.totalmedia.com/content/trivia-and-tips/maxells-chair-man-hell-bl…
18 Oct
18 Oct
2:58 a.m.
Quite a coincidence, Mattis showed me one of those just last
week. Can't remember the system name though. A green
terminal/micro computer combination.
Perhaps Mattis will fill in the details.
/P
On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 06:21:29PM -0500, Jay West wrote:
I have two "flippy organizers" (that's
around 20 floppies each) full of
these oddball floppies.
Picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22020178558/in/dateposted/
They are 8", hard sectored, and the sectors are on the outer edge rather
than the hub, and there is an odd cutout on one edge that goes inside the
drive.
I know I don't have a machine that uses these, so they are available for
trade.
J
7 Feb
7 Feb
4:35 a.m.
Hello Jay!
I think I sent a message related to these floppies before and since now is
long since the original message they're probably gone, but I need to check
to be sure.
I am interested in those oddball floppies with sector holes at the edge for
my Incoterm SPD 10/25 machine, are they still for trade?
I am not sure what you are looking for though. I do have a some HP21MX
stuff, 7900 disk cartridges. DEC stuff etc.
/Mattis
2015-10-18 1:21 GMT+02:00 Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org>:
I have two "flippy organizers" (that's
around 20 floppies each) full of
these oddball floppies.
Picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22020178558/in/dateposted/
They are 8", hard sectored, and the sectors are on the outer edge rather
than the hub, and there is an odd cutout on one edge that goes inside the
drive.
I know I don't have a machine that uses these, so they are available for
trade.
J
4:37 a.m.
Sorry. Should have been off-list.
My fault.
/Mattis
2016-02-07 13:35 GMT+01:00 Mattis Lind <mattislind at gmail.com>:
Hello Jay!
I think I sent a message related to these floppies before and since now is
long since the original message they're probably gone, but I need to check
to be sure.
I am interested in those oddball floppies with sector holes at the edge
for my Incoterm SPD 10/25 machine, are they still for trade?
I am not sure what you are looking for though. I do have a some HP21MX
stuff, 7900 disk cartridges. DEC stuff etc.
/Mattis
2015-10-18 1:21 GMT+02:00 Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org>:
I have two "flippy organizers"
(that's around 20 floppies each) full of
these oddball floppies.
Picture at
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131070638 at N02/22020178558/in/dateposted/
They are 8", hard sectored, and the sectors are on the outer edge rather
than the hub, and there is an odd cutout on one edge that goes inside the
drive.
I know I don't have a machine that uses these, so they are available for
trade.
J
3192
days inactive
3305
days old
15 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
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aek＠bitsavers.org -
cclist＠sydex.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
mattislind＠gmail.com -
phb.hfx＠gmail.com -
pontus＠Update.UU.SE -
spacewar＠gmail.com