2 Nov
2009
2 Nov
'09
10:39 a.m.
Greetings all;
I picked up a VAX4000 last week and have been trying to get talking with
it. I found a general VAX4000 series guide which says the terminal
settings should be 8N1 and I've got the speed right between the dial on
the front of the VAX module and the VT240 I'm using.
I get partial data, with ?s scattered all over the place. Frequently it
loses carriage returns and things get stuck scrolling off the side of the
screen.
What am I missing here? Is it not 8N1? I've tried flipping it around to
7N1, 7E1, etc, but usually that just results in absolute gibberish, the
8N1 provides the best signal-to-noise ratio.
I'd appreciate any thoughts given.
Elsewise, I'm pretty pumped. I have another 4000/300, but it has a bad
PSU. I figured I'd put the two together to get the nicest working machine,
store the spare PCBs and dump the chassis (anyone want an empty
4000/300?). The unit is complaining about some memory errors (came with
four memory boards), but with all the crap coming up on the screen, I'm
not entirely positive what it's complaining about since I can only read a
partial output...
Thanks again;
- JP
2 Nov
2 Nov
11:14 a.m.
What line speed are you running at? I have a 4000/300, too (great machine -
congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with either a VT420 or a terminal
emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure you're right there. But I wonder if the
VT240 is just not keeping up with the VAX, i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space.
I've seen that before, where a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it for very
long. Hm, I think I have a VT240, maybe I should give it a try.... -- Ian
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JP
Hindin [jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:39 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300
Greetings all;
I picked up a VAX4000 last week and have been trying to get talking with
it. I found a general VAX4000 series guide which says the terminal
settings should be 8N1 and I've got the speed right between the dial on
the front of the VAX module and the VT240 I'm using.
I get partial data, with ?s scattered all over the place. Frequently it
loses carriage returns and things get stuck scrolling off the side of the
screen.
What am I missing here? Is it not 8N1? I've tried flipping it around to
7N1, 7E1, etc, but usually that just results in absolute gibberish, the
8N1 provides the best signal-to-noise ratio.
I'd appreciate any thoughts given.
Elsewise, I'm pretty pumped. I have another 4000/300, but it has a bad
PSU. I figured I'd put the two together to get the nicest working machine,
store the spare PCBs and dump the chassis (anyone want an empty
4000/300?). The unit is complaining about some memory errors (came with
four memory boards), but with all the crap coming up on the screen, I'm
not entirely positive what it's complaining about since I can only read a
partial output...
Thanks again;
- JP
11:27 a.m.
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Ian King wrote:
What line speed are you running at? I have a
4000/300, too (great
machine - congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with either
a VT420 or a terminal emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure you're right
there. But I wonder if the VT240 is just not keeping up with the VAX,
i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space. I've seen that before, where
a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it for very long. Hm, I think I
have a VT240, maybe I should give it a try.... -- Ian
I have it set to 9600 on both sides. I know I used this term to talk to my
-other- VAX4000 at 9600, so it really shouldn't be an issue.
I'll try dialling down the speeds.
It occurred to me that I should see if it still works on the -other- VAX,
which I know I used to work with on this term. I thought I'd pop the good
PSU out of the new VAX, stick it in the old, and fire it up with the same
settings (9600 8N1) and see if it's clear or gibberish, just to exclude
some kind of fault in the new VAX. That might be why they dumped it ;)
Thank you, Ian. If the old VAX gives the same problem, I'll click the
speed back to 1200bps.
- JP
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JP
Hindin [jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:39 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300
Greetings all;
I picked up a VAX4000 last week and have been trying to get talking with
it. I found a general VAX4000 series guide which says the terminal
settings should be 8N1 and I've got the speed right between the dial on
the front of the VAX module and the VT240 I'm using.
I get partial data, with ?s scattered all over the place. Frequently it
loses carriage returns and things get stuck scrolling off the side of the
screen.
What am I missing here? Is it not 8N1? I've tried flipping it around to
7N1, 7E1, etc, but usually that just results in absolute gibberish, the
8N1 provides the best signal-to-noise ratio.
I'd appreciate any thoughts given.
Elsewise, I'm pretty pumped. I have another 4000/300, but it has a bad
PSU. I figured I'd put the two together to get the nicest working machine,
store the spare PCBs and dump the chassis (anyone want an empty
4000/300?). The unit is complaining about some memory errors (came with
four memory boards), but with all the crap coming up on the screen, I'm
not entirely positive what it's complaining about since I can only read a
partial output...
Thanks again;
- JP
11:33 a.m.
If that doesn't work, another thing that occurs to me is that you might want to take a
scope to the serial line. Typically, RS232 requires a voltage that's not used by much
else, and if that rail is noisy (from a filter capacitor that's not capaciting, for
instance), that might give you this behavior, too, without mucking up anything else. --
Ian
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JP
Hindin [jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Talking to a VAX4000/300
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Ian King wrote:
What line speed are you running at? I have a
4000/300, too (great
machine - congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with either
a VT420 or a terminal emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure you're right
there. But I wonder if the VT240 is just not keeping up with the VAX,
i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space. I've seen that before, where
a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it for very long. Hm, I think I
have a VT240, maybe I should give it a try.... -- Ian
I have it set to 9600 on both sides. I know I used this term to talk to my
-other- VAX4000 at 9600, so it really shouldn't be an issue.
I'll try dialling down the speeds.
It occurred to me that I should see if it still works on the -other- VAX,
which I know I used to work with on this term. I thought I'd pop the good
PSU out of the new VAX, stick it in the old, and fire it up with the same
settings (9600 8N1) and see if it's clear or gibberish, just to exclude
some kind of fault in the new VAX. That might be why they dumped it ;)
Thank you, Ian. If the old VAX gives the same problem, I'll click the
speed back to 1200bps.
- JP
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JP
Hindin [jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:39 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300
Greetings all;
I picked up a VAX4000 last week and have been trying to get talking with
it. I found a general VAX4000 series guide which says the terminal
settings should be 8N1 and I've got the speed right between the dial on
the front of the VAX module and the VT240 I'm using.
I get partial data, with ?s scattered all over the place. Frequently it
loses carriage returns and things get stuck scrolling off the side of the
screen.
What am I missing here? Is it not 8N1? I've tried flipping it around to
7N1, 7E1, etc, but usually that just results in absolute gibberish, the
8N1 provides the best signal-to-noise ratio.
I'd appreciate any thoughts given.
Elsewise, I'm pretty pumped. I have another 4000/300, but it has a bad
PSU. I figured I'd put the two together to get the nicest working machine,
store the spare PCBs and dump the chassis (anyone want an empty
4000/300?). The unit is complaining about some memory errors (came with
four memory boards), but with all the crap coming up on the screen, I'm
not entirely positive what it's complaining about since I can only read a
partial output...
Thanks again;
- JP
6:20 p.m.
Check the battery on the CPU front panel, looking for corrosion due to an
aging
battery leaking. I have a MicroVAX 3800 that had similar symptoms. Removing
the
battery and cleaning the PCB the serial port is attached to corrected serial
line
corruption.
I checked my VAX 4000/705a and found a similar battery arrangement. From the
position
of the battery, I can see a similar problem in the future.. Guess I'll
replace my battery soon..
No flames please, but is the VT240 serial port connected setup for Xon/Xoff?
Dan Snyder
----- Original Message -----
From: "JP Hindin" <jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: Talking to a VAX4000/300
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Ian King wrote:
What line speed are you running at? I have a
4000/300, too (great
machine - congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with either
a VT420 or a terminal emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure you're right
there. But I wonder if the VT240 is just not keeping up with the VAX,
i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space. I've seen that before, where
a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it for very long. Hm, I think I
have a VT240, maybe I should give it a try.... -- Ian
I have it set to 9600 on both sides. I know I used this term to talk to my
-other- VAX4000 at 9600, so it really shouldn't be an issue.
I'll try dialling down the speeds.
It occurred to me that I should see if it still works on the -other- VAX,
which I know I used to work with on this term. I thought I'd pop the good
PSU out of the new VAX, stick it in the old, and fire it up with the same
settings (9600 8N1) and see if it's clear or gibberish, just to exclude
some kind of fault in the new VAX. That might be why they dumped it ;)
Thank you, Ian. If the old VAX gives the same problem, I'll click the
speed back to 1200bps.
- JP
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On
Behalf Of JP Hindin [jplist2008 at kiwigeek.com]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:39 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300
Greetings all;
I picked up a VAX4000 last week and have been trying to get talking with
it. I found a general VAX4000 series guide which says the terminal
settings should be 8N1 and I've got the speed right between the dial on
the front of the VAX module and the VT240 I'm using.
I get partial data, with ?s scattered all over the place. Frequently it
loses carriage returns and things get stuck scrolling off the side of the
screen.
What am I missing here? Is it not 8N1? I've tried flipping it around to
7N1, 7E1, etc, but usually that just results in absolute gibberish, the
8N1 provides the best signal-to-noise ratio.
I'd appreciate any thoughts given.
Elsewise, I'm pretty pumped. I have another 4000/300, but it has a bad
PSU. I figured I'd put the two together to get the nicest working
machine,
store the spare PCBs and dump the chassis (anyone want an empty
4000/300?). The unit is complaining about some memory errors (came with
four memory boards), but with all the crap coming up on the screen, I'm
not entirely positive what it's complaining about since I can only read a
partial output...
Thanks again;
- JP
12:40 p.m.
On Nov 2, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Ian King wrote:
What line speed are you running at? I have a
4000/300, too (great
machine - congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with
either a VT420 or a terminal emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure
you're right there. But I wonder if the VT240 is just not keeping
up with the VAX, i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space. I've
seen that before, where a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it
for very long. Hm, I think I have a VT240, maybe I should give it
a try.... -- Ian
VT240s, while wonderful in other ways, are very slow terminals.
It wouldn't surprise me if he were simply getting overruns.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
3:11 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
VT240s, while wonderful in other ways, are very slow terminals. It
wouldn't surprise me if he were simply getting overruns.
I would be easy to check this, no? Just slow the serial line to, say,
4800 and try again. That would probably go a long way to confirming that
the VT240 is getting behind the curve.
-- Jared
3 Nov
3 Nov
9:38 a.m.
New subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
On Nov 2, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Ian King wrote:
Much to my embarrassment I discovered the issue was _not_ the speed, or
noisy lines, or corroded batteries or RS232/423 problems. I was a total
nitwit and neglected to notice I had it set to 8E1 instead of 8N1.
Remarkably with this small change, I can now speak to it clearly at
9600bps.
<Hand to forehead repeatedly and with force>
Should I be amazed or not that this 4000/300 has a half-gig of RAM? My
first 4000/300 came with a single 32M board, this one comes with 4x 128M
boards (one of which is flaky). The documentation I can find says the
4000/300 maxes out at 128M, which... clearly isn't so:
http://www.kiwigeek.com/misc/VAX4000_Mem_Count.JPG
Where would the sages suggest I begin in tracking down a fault in one of
the four boards:
http://www.kiwigeek.com/misc/VAX4000_Mem_Errors.JPG
My thanks to everyone who made very good, but due to my incompetance,
unused suggestions.
- JP
What line speed are you running at? I have a
4000/300, too (great
machine - congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with
either a VT420 or a terminal emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure
you're right there. But I wonder if the VT240 is just not keeping
up with the VAX, i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space. I've
seen that before, where a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it
for very long. Hm, I think I have a VT240, maybe I should give it
a try.... -- Ian
VT240s, while wonderful in other ways, are very slow terminals.
It wouldn't surprise me if he were simply getting overruns. 
12:42 p.m.
New subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
On Nov 3, 2009, at 9:38 AM, JP Hindin wrote:
Much to my embarrassment I discovered the issue was _not_ the
speed, or
noisy lines, or corroded batteries or RS232/423 problems. I was a
total
nitwit and neglected to notice I had it set to 8E1 instead of 8N1.
Remarkably with this small change, I can now speak to it clearly at
9600bps.
<Hand to forehead repeatedly and with force>
Ahem. ;)
What line speed are you running at? I have a
4000/300, too (great
machine - congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with
either a VT420 or a terminal emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure
you're right there. But I wonder if the VT240 is just not keeping
up with the VAX, i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space. I've
seen that before, where a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it
for very long. Hm, I think I have a VT240, maybe I should give it
a try.... -- Ian
VT240s, while wonderful in other ways, are very slow terminals.
It wouldn't surprise me if he were simply getting overruns. Should I be amazed or not that this 4000/300 has a
half-gig of RAM? My
first 4000/300 came with a single 32M board, this one comes with 4x
128M
boards (one of which is flaky). The documentation I can find says the
4000/300 maxes out at 128M, which... clearly isn't so:
http://www.kiwigeek.com/misc/VAX4000_Mem_Count.JPG
Holy crap!! That's a huge amount of memory on a VAX. HUGE. Score!
Where would the sages suggest I begin in tracking down
a fault in
one of
the four boards:
http://www.kiwigeek.com/misc/VAX4000_Mem_Errors.JPG
Hmm, ouch. :-( Is the service manual for the '300 CPU around? It
should tell you how to decode the message and will probably get you
down to the chip level.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
2:17 p.m.
New subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org wrote:
Hmm, ouch. :-( Is the service manual for the
'300 CPU
around? It
should tell you how to decode the message and will probably get you
down to the chip level.
Manx has a bunch of stuff, start here:
http://vt100.net/manx/details/1,1469 for the KA670 TM.
I *think* the max memory depends on the backplane, later revs
could cope with more. I *think* the CPU could always cope with
512MB.
As for testing, start (obviously) by running with any two boards,
and decide in which pair the fault lies. Then you isolate to a single
board.
Fixing that single board probably requires better diags than the console
provides (although it has been a long time and I could be wrong.
If you can isolate it to just a RAM chip, then a memory board is
probably
the simplest of all component level fixes, no?
Antonio
1:27 p.m.
New subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of JP Hindin
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 6:39 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009, Dave McGuire wrote:
Glad to help, even if it wasn't needed. :-) So what boards are those? The 4000/300
Technical Manual calls out two different memory boards, one 32MB, the other 64MB, and
there are four memory slots. I'd *love* to beef up my 4000 with more than 128MB. --
Ian
On Nov 2, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Ian King wrote:
Much to my embarrassment I discovered the issue was _not_ the speed, or
noisy lines, or corroded batteries or RS232/423 problems. I was a total
nitwit and neglected to notice I had it set to 8E1 instead of 8N1.
Remarkably with this small change, I can now speak to it clearly at
9600bps.
<Hand to forehead repeatedly and with force>
Should I be amazed or not that this 4000/300 has a half-gig of RAM? My
first 4000/300 came with a single 32M board, this one comes with 4x
128M
boards (one of which is flaky). The documentation I can find says the
4000/300 maxes out at 128M, which... clearly isn't so:
http://www.kiwigeek.com/misc/VAX4000_Mem_Count.JPG
Where would the sages suggest I begin in tracking down a fault in one
of
the four boards:
http://www.kiwigeek.com/misc/VAX4000_Mem_Errors.JPG
My thanks to everyone who made very good, but due to my incompetance,
unused suggestions.
What line speed are you running at? I have a
4000/300, too (great
machine - congratulations!), and I haven't had that problem with
either a VT420 or a terminal emulator. I'm using 8N1, so I'm sure
you're right there. But I wonder if the VT240 is just not keeping
up with the VAX, i.e. insufficient speed and buffer space. I've
seen that before, where a terminal *can* talk 9600 but can't do it
for very long. Hm, I think I have a VT240, maybe I should give it
a try.... -- Ian
VT240s, while wonderful in other ways, are very slow terminals.
It wouldn't surprise me if he were simply getting overruns. 
1:33 p.m.
New subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, Ian King wrote:
Glad to help, even if it wasn't needed. :-) So
what boards are those?
The 4000/300 Technical Manual calls out two different memory boards, one
32MB, the other 64MB, and there are four memory slots. I'd *love* to
beef up my 4000 with more than 128MB. -- Ian
I'd *love* to beef up my 4000/300 with more than its current measly
32MB! Anyone have a spare MS670-CA (64MB)? I assume the OP has MS670-DA
(128MB) boards installed...
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
1:52 p.m.
New subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> wrote:
Glad to help, even if it wasn't needed. ?:-) ?So what boards are those? ?The 4000/300
Technical Manual calls out two different memory boards, one 32MB, the other 64MB, and
there are four memory slots. ?I'd *love* to beef up my 4000 with more than 128MB. ?--
Ian
I upgraded my 4000-500 to 512MB with (4x) DATARAM 128MB boards. The
DRD450/128 is equivalent to a MS690-DA.
http://web.archive.org/web/19970521221815/www.dataram.com/datashts/drd450.h…
4 Nov
4 Nov
9:24 a.m.
New subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300; Also RAM
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, Ian King wrote:
Hey Ian;
They are labelled as Clearpoint Research Corporate, DCMEV40, 128MBX.
They're covered in 4C1004s (if that makes sense to anyone).
I've determined which board is causing the failure, that was the easy part
- thankfully only a single board out of the set of four. The KA670 manual
does not describe in sufficient detail the diagnostic tests for memory to
determine any better what it's up to. I've started running the test
scripts manually to see if I can get better output from the test.
I found a diagnostics manual for VAX, "EK-1VAXD-TM-001 VAX Diagnostic
Design Guide". I haven't attached it yet, but it might prove more useful.
I have _never_ even attempted to repair a RAM board, so I'm not sure how
to go about isolating which chip is at fault... A new adventure!
- JP
Where would
the sages suggest I begin in tracking down a fault in one
of
the four boards:
http://www.kiwigeek.com/misc/VAX4000_Mem_Errors.JPG
My thanks to everyone who made very good, but due to my incompetance,
unused suggestions.
Glad to help, even if it wasn't needed. :-) So what boards are those?
The 4000/300 Technical Manual calls out two different memory boards, one
32MB, the other 64MB, and there are four memory slots. I'd *love* to
beef up my 4000 with more than 128MB. -- Ian 
3 Nov
3 Nov
1:22 a.m.
The ports can be RS-423 or RS-232.
Use a real DEC terminal.
Try both by changing the set up in your terminal.
Use the correct DEC MMJ cable between the VAX and the terminal.
Connect to the MMJ sockets at both ends. Avoid 25way connectors.
I have a VAX 4000/300 working just fine. (VMS 7.3)
Regards
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of JP Hindin
Sent: 02 November 2009 15:39
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Talking to a VAX4000/300
Greetings all;
I picked up a VAX4000 last week and have been trying to get talking with
it. I found a general VAX4000 series guide which says the terminal
settings should be 8N1 and I've got the speed right between the dial on
the front of the VAX module and the VT240 I'm using.
I get partial data, with ?s scattered all over the place. Frequently it
loses carriage returns and things get stuck scrolling off the side of the
screen.
What am I missing here? Is it not 8N1? I've tried flipping it around to
7N1, 7E1, etc, but usually that just results in absolute gibberish, the
8N1 provides the best signal-to-noise ratio.
I'd appreciate any thoughts given.
Elsewise, I'm pretty pumped. I have another 4000/300, but it has a bad
PSU. I figured I'd put the two together to get the nicest working machine,
store the spare PCBs and dump the chassis (anyone want an empty
4000/300?). The unit is complaining about some memory errors (came with
four memory boards), but with all the crap coming up on the screen, I'm
not entirely positive what it's complaining about since I can only read a
partial output...
Thanks again;
- JP
5374
days inactive
5376
days old
14 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
arcarlini＠iee.org -
ddsnyder＠zoominternet.net -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jplist2008＠kiwigeek.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
oldcpu＠rogerwilco.org -
rodsmallwood＠btconnect.com