I have been at computing for quite a few years and so nostalgia plays a role. In those early times I was young, had no money, and the gear I collect now would have cost tens of thousands to purchase. So I get to play with the 'Impossible Toy' a little later than I would have liked. These machines come cheap nowadays and in my computing heart-of-hearts the machine is brand new and it is still 1983 or whatever year is appropriate. Challenge is a big thing for me. I don't collect simple machines or ones I know I can't repair as they won't scratch the itch of actually tinkering with and learning a system. I particularly like finding ways to network disparate systems together. It is the first thing I go for once I have a stable system built. Full system backups are another thing I go for right off. The goal for backup is a full bootable, restorable backup which will have everything you need to bring the machine back up after a hard disk swap or a low-level format. Just about everywhere. Computer Parts Barn for all kinds of minicomputer stuff and just about everything else. Often the machines are 'donated' by people who have a glimmer of appreciation for them and so for why I collect, restore, and USE them. I think they get a kick out of knowing thier arcane computer gear is still alive and thriving in my basement, living room, bathroom, bedroom, dining room.... I scope the thrift stores at irregular intervals and keep an eye out for discarded/neglected computer gear. I like 80's micros quite a bit and would like a full-blown COCO system very much so I have my eyes peeled for one. Trading is something I have allways done but its hard when we are all so geographically scattered. I envy the folks in California one thing and that is community. They have a dense enough population to be organized at retro/vintage computing. The same goes for those wierdos in Rhode Island ;-) 1) Think twice if it does not function. Fixing it is gonna be a bitch. It also may be part of the fun! 2) You can never have enough paper towels, windex, ScotchBrite, screws, shunts, ajax, Iso Alcohol, sponges, paper for notes, space, light, outlets, patience, powerbars, wire, pens, media, test equipment, smarts. 3) Allways note the power requirements for a big system. You might save yourself a ton of effort moving it if you discover you can't provide power for it. 4) Examine unlabeled media before re-using it. It may have something COOL on it you want. 5) Red pencil erasors are excellent for cleaning card edge connectors. 6) Make full-system backups continuously and religiously whenever there is significant change. Preferably on more than one media type. 7) Realize that even if the machine was a gift it may cost you to get it running or to provide a function you want. Even retro computing costs money. Sometimes lots. 8) You do not need a scanning electron microscope, a side scan infrared camera, a missile guidence computer, or any other boondoggle. Especially if you are married and value your privalege of taking up every spare nook with your hobby. Sun4 yes, standing room only no. 9) You don't need a clean-room to fix an old hard drive, just a Clean Room. Don't smoke while you are inside it and monitor it like a hawk if you intend to use it for any extended period after repairs. 10) Is documentation available? It may also cost you and you may not be going anywhere without it. 11) Can you get boot media and IPL media for it? If not it will just sit there and look pretty to others but you will KNOW it is dead every time you look at it. Some collectors don't mind but I can't stand a dead machine. I collect 70's and 80's micros and 80's/90's minicomputers, workstations, mainframes if feasable. Atari 8-bits: 130xe 1200xl 800xl 600xl 800 400 several duplicates related peripherals and software several duplicates Atari 16/32 bits: 1040st (1mb ram) (two of them) Mega ST4 (4mb running MiNT with 2gb scsi hard disk) related peripherals and software (slim) CP/M 8bits: Kaypro II SWP ATR8000 SWP ATR8500 (serial # 5 !!!) Bet no one has hear about this machine. Any takers on that bet? Data General: MV4000DC Minicomputer, 8mb, 120mb+70mb, 16 line terminal controller, tape drives etc. Networked via ethernet and tcp/ip. Operating systems experience, and (maybe) documentation: All the many mutually compatible DOSes for the Atari 8-bit including Spartados and Spartados X, MyDOS, TopDos, DOS XL, DOS 4, DOS 3, DOS XE. TOS, MiNT, SUSE Linux, RedHat Linux, Yggdrasil Linux, Slackware Linux, Mandrake Linux, Caldera Linux, SCO Unix 5, AOS/VS, AOS/VS II, OS/2, Solaris, Novell Netware, Windows 3.x, Windows 9x, Windows NT, MSDOS, various MSDOS clones, CP/M v2.2, MPM, CP/M86, Pick, Prodos, Concurrent CP/M, Concurrent DOS, OS/9, Minix, SUNOS, OS/2 Warp Server, GEM, CP/M68k, Nova/MV ADES/ADEX ( a tape-based diagnostic OS ), MTOS ( a multitasking OS on Mostek 6502 ), a little MACOS, a little AmigaDOS and Workbench 'sticktime', various other BSD-derived Unices, Windows CE (not much to it). Probably a couple more I missed. Your mileage may vary from OS to OS as to skill level but I can install all of the installable ones and network all the networkable ones and do normal system chores on all of them. Hear me roar. Operating systems I would like to know or know better: All of them but particularly; SUNOS and Solaris on Sparc (my sticktime is on x86 platform), Windows NT on Alpha, OS400, MacOSX, MiNT (would like to have FPU, MMU, and virtual memory), Linux on 68k, DG/UX on my MV machine or an Aviion, MPM (MultiUser CP/M) - I don't have a multi-cp/m machine - my sticktime was on a friend's machine, MV ADEX v12 and up (anyone know the algorithm used to calculate the key?), AIX, OS/2 for Power PC, Ultrix. I would also like a Coleco ADAM. Thanks for asking. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Technical Services Bits & Bytes Computer Services Inc. 1979B Hendersonville Road Asheville, NC 28803 828-684-8953 - voice 0900-1700 five days 828-687-9284 - 24hr fax Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? Technoid(a)Cheta.net -----------------------------------------------------------

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On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Mike Ford wrote: I notice that even auto mechanics are wearing them now. - don

At this point I am sold on using them. 5 bucks for a box of a 100 (50 pair) at a cheapo place nearby (Harbor Freight tools). My hands stay clean. I don't get poked, or cut very easily (zero so far). Solvents that are nasty to my skin, now are harmless. BTW I just realized, no brain and a box of spares, hey I'm in field service. ;)

Nitrile is the one for nasty nasty, but latex is MUCH easier to work in. My heavy nitrile gloves I bought at a janitors supply, but they have disposables right next to the boxes of latext gloves for about 50% more and half as many per box. Real latex is EXTREMELY elastic, mine lasted two days and I think only failed then because I was scrubbing with Goof Off (smells like lighter fluid, actually worse, takes off anything), and then it was just the end of one finger tearing. With latex you tend to get used to them and leave them on. With vinyl or worse nitrile you put them on, do the task, and take them off.

The serial port on the c64 IS RS232 compatible, but it uses ttl level signals instead of the normal ones. The adapters just (if memory serves) raise the signal levels to rs232 standards. It only goes up to 2400 baud with the existing bios, although the chip goes (I think) to 9600 if you reprogram it. For this reason plugging the serial printer into any standard RS232 device is probably not a good idea. I believe there is an OS that was written for the 64 that has an IP stack, although I don't remember where you'd look for it. It was someone's college project. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! -----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 15-Mar-2000 healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: Little Unix, Next Generation ttp://www.heilbronn.netsurf.de/%7Edallmann/lunix/lng.html Someone has to much Copious Spare Time. OK, now I *have* to get this working! I haven't found this yet. And I don't know why I was supprised when I first read your post. Browsers are up there with IRC clients and MUAs in the "a new one every day" catagory. Browsing the web from a C-64 would be in the same class as browsing the web from a vt220 (which I've done often :). Hmm.... I wonder if TTY doom would work... -Philip

On 15-Mar-2000 healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: http://hem.passagen.se/harlekin/html.htm ... It's more an HTML viewer, but still. -Philip

Finally I just got to play with one of my Apollo workstations. Good news, it boots up, well sort of, and my 1097C monitor works fine. The sort of boots up is where I am stuck, looks like maybe the second SCSI drive is flakey (it didn't spin up until I pressed the TOC button on the front of the console and a boot device search started), or HP-UX is missing or damaged. It tries to run something called 9000/700 and fails. Info on the system is 80 MB ram, 2 SCSI drives (size unknown?), and from running the ODE a little it tells me I have a 203H processor. Its an Apollo 735, and the prompt is IPL>. I have four more to play with, but if anybody has some quick hints on how to procede, show drive sizes, run drive diagnostics etc. email me. Begging everyones pardon with this 1992 system.

Thanks, I will be playing for hours. ;) I just finished my first pass through running each of the four systems. Apollo 735 80 MB ram, 203H processor, fails to find file HP-UX Mentor Graphics series 700 / 720 32 MB ram, gets stuck when trying to boot (bad drive?) Mentor Graphics 715t/50 56 MB ram, boots into hp-ux, then immediately gripes about something missing, gives a return code of 256 and dumps memory to the hard drive (will repeat endlessly too). HP 400t Aaaack, this poor old baby almost seems to boot, but the A1416A graphics board isn't syncing with my HP 1097C monitor (anybody know the dip switch settings for 72 hz?) or will it just not work with a 1097C? BTW I am not really asking for help yet, just making conversation prior to reading those two FAQs recently posted to the list. Before putting them away on a shelf for a bit I will run through them all once more and take notes of the specific responses etc. They look like fun toys, but I know I will only keep one or two, so if anybody yearns for one email me and beat the rush to eBay.

I have never had a hand on HP-UX but when I first got my MV4000 it very much the same thing as your UX box. The fix was the run a filesystem fixer. While I was at disk stuff I ran the high-level formatter, scanned for bad sectors etc. Came right up. It tortured me for like two weeks before I figured out it needed this and how to run the checker when I could not boot the machine. There was a mechanism to execute a single file from the filesystem without mounting it so as not to lock the disk against the checker. Else you could get a maintainance build of HP-UX on floppy and check it that way. Maybe Linux FSCK can handle your disk format? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Technical Services Bits & Bytes Computer Services Inc. 1979B Hendersonville Road Asheville, NC 28803 828-684-8953 - voice 0900-1700 five days 828-687-9284 - 24hr fax Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? Technoid(a)Cheta.net -----------------------------------------------------------

::I had thought so also, and was looking for it a few months ago but couldn't ::find it. If anyone knows anything about this, I'd love to hear about it. ::Actually what I was really looking for IIRC, was info on a Web browser for ::the C64, which ISTR existing. There are actually two in development. "The Wave" http://people.delphi.com/arca93/ is the first. It requires mucho hardware (you need a SuperCPU with minimum 1MB RAM plus the Wheels OS) but supports true PPP and includes a full stack and standard Internet services with all the trimmings. It has been finished and is being disseminated to testers. The second I know considerably better because *I'm* the author. http://www.armory.com/~spectre/cwi/hl/web.html HyperLink 2.5 supports most of HTML 1.0 and displays black-and-white .jpgs and .gifs (I believe The Wave does this in colour, but you need a tricked-out 128 in VDC mode to do it). It doesn't need CPU acceleration; you run a Perl proxy on a shell account (hence a shell dialup is mandatory) which handles the image and HTML translation, spitting out directives to the HL2.5 markup engine. This means it will run on any Commodore, and can go as low as 1200bps (I think the low end for The Wave is 9.6k but I don't know). I expect to get it in a releaseable form by early summer this year. The bottom line is that HL2.5 is intended for Commodore users who can't or won't upgrade, and The Wave for the big league systems. Maurice Randall, the author of The Wave, has already stated he will not release a stock system version; as for my part, I don't have an SCPU, so I won't be writing a *non*-stock app myself. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu -- If a seagull flies over the sea, what flies over the bay? ------------------

Actually you can write C64 disks with a PC floppy drive *BUT* you need a controller that costs about $100. An X1542 cable on the other hand works great if you don't wire it in reverse (at which point you would have to take it apart and rewire it :^) <sigh> All this talk of the C64 makes me want to find someplace to set one of mine back up, preferably with the monitor. Of course I've got zero room for that :^( Zane

I remember now that the *modem* port (as opposed to the DIN periperhal port) is the one that you can get an RS232 adapter for. I believe CMD computers is STILL selling one you plug into the cartrige port that goes much faster. As to the modem port dropping characters, I used to run mine at 1200 baud while using terminal software (vt100 emulation, even) without too many problems. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! -----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Mar 14, 2000 at 01:24:34AM -0800, Mike Ford wrote: Must be nice to be close enough to visit Harbor Freight in person, they aren't so reliable by mail order, or at least they didn't used to be. It took *months* to get them to ship an order... I find the latex exam gloves are nice for desoldering too, not that they're actually *made* to insulate you from heat, but they do buy you several extra seconds of holding onto parts before you get burned. John Wilson D Bit

You know as well as I do what hell some of these machines lived in an how robust they really are. A red erasor is not going to do anything negative to a 'finger' on a board. I have my 130xe for 15 years and have used an erasor at least 30 times on various boards. No impact other than to solve spurious flaky problems. The reason why I like the red ones is for thier mild abrasive quality. The softer ones don't take off the oxide. In &lt;Pine.LNX.4.21.0003121443510.18677-100000(a)instinct.bears.org&gt;rg>, on 03/13/00 at 12:03 AM, "r. 'bear' stricklin" &lt;red(a)bears.org&gt; said: -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Technical Services Bits & Bytes Computer Services Inc. 1979B Hendersonville Road Asheville, NC 28803 828-684-8953 - voice 0900-1700 five days 828-687-9284 - 24hr fax Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? Technoid(a)Cheta.net -----------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 12:31:02AM -0800, Marvin wrote: Somewhere in the old DEC maintenance fiche there's a discussion about this. They claimed the amount taken off by an eraser was pretty significant (something like 1/10 of the plating each time you rub it down with the eraser, but maybe they were a tad enthusiastic in their tests) and so it was a really bad idea, they had some vile chemical that they wanted the FS folks to use instead. John Wilson D Bit

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On Sun, Mar 12, 2000 at 12:47:01PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: Yeah I remember it being demo'd at Comdex in 1995 though. -- _______ http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud (_ | |_) ecloud(a)bigfoot.com finger rutledge(a)cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903

Technoid(a)cheta.net wrote: Hi I brought a IMSAI with a strange TTL state machine disk controller back to life without any boot media. I was able to locate schematics for it and then read the PROMs. I made my own mnemonics for it so I could understand what it wanted me to send to is, both port and memory data. It used DMA and may have been one of the earlier DMAs used for disk interfaces on the s100. Still, I wrote some code to format disk and transfer information from memory to and from the disk. I wrote a BIOS for CP/M and created a bootable disk. I now have a working CP/M system. I could have taken a newer disk board and replaced the 8080 with a Z80 board but I wanted it to work as much like the original as I could. I'd rather have had original copies of the code that came with it but one does with what they can get. Dwight

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: --snip-- True but learning how to do this sort of think is what I consider the fun part about these machines. Having a box that works without understand what is going on inside would drive me batty. I'm really frustrated when I can't find a schematic for some of the things I have. I have been known to trace schematic myself but this is really time consuming and I'd prefer to get copies of originals. I don't have a piece of electronic gear that I haven't at least taken the cover off of and looked inside. I tried to locate original software and also posted to this group but the darn thing was a rare one. Finally a local friend found some schematics and a little information. I still had to do a lot of experimentation because the controller needed the right information in the RAM that it was reading or writing to. I guess I am just a hacker at heart. I think that all collectors should take on such a project at some point on some machine. The knowledge gained is valuable for all kinds of things. I will have some hardware to play with on my death bed. Dwight

ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: Yes, all agreed. It is just that most put the concept of doing things like writing a disassembler or even a simple OS for some old machine is out of the question and for the elite, only. After you do your first one, you realize that it isn't as much as people like Bill Gate would like you to believe. You attack it a piece at a time. Fiddle with some part and then another. Eventually you have the entire thing done. This is usually faster than you thought. Remember, you are not being forced to do it for a job, it is just for the satisfaction. There are lots of examples to look at. Steal a piece here or an idea there. It will all make sense eventually. Take Care Dwight