22 Feb
2013
22 Feb
'13
11:09 a.m.
Should we be surprised at how and why classic-computing, this site in
particular, is so popular amongst the hobbyist/experimenter community
today? There is a modicum of control that?s lacking in today?s
computing, or computing-like, technology. Granted it?s ?easier? to
use/employ, nearly by all; everything, or almost, done without
consumer input but turning the infernal beast on. Or, maybe not with
the ?intelligence agents? been employed today! And even our computers
I dare say going this route. Automatic updates, etc., etc.,
happen?Making a computer or otherwise do what you want it to do,
rather than say an Apple or something akin, is fast becoming a thing
of the past. Freedom. Let?s hope it?s not pass? either!
Murray--
23 Feb
23 Feb
11 a.m.
On 02/22/2013 02:09 PM, Murray McCullough wrote:
Should we be surprised at how and why
classic-computing, this site in
particular, is so popular amongst the hobbyist/experimenter community
today? There is a modicum of control that?s lacking in today?s
computing, or computing-like, technology. Granted it?s ?easier? to
use/employ, nearly by all; everything, or almost, done without
consumer input but turning the infernal beast on. Or, maybe not with
the ?intelligence agents? been employed today! And even our computers
I dare say going this route. Automatic updates, etc., etc.,
happen?Making a computer or otherwise do what you want it to do,
rather than say an Apple or something akin, is fast becoming a thing
of the past. Freedom. Let?s hope it?s not pass? either!
That's the way the suits in industry are attempting to "steer" the
rest of us, yes. But why do you say this as if it's some sort of a
mandatory thing? There are ALWAYS ways around it. Always. Just don't
submit to their attempts at control, and you'll be fine. I didn't
(never have!) and I don't have any of these issues.
The only technology that I feel I'm "at the mercy" of is binary-only
Nvidia drivers...and by and large, they work fine for me so I've never
had to worry about them. The only thing that I depend on in my
day-to-day life, both personally and professionally, that I don't have
the source code for is VMware and the boot ROMs in my machines.
Complete control. There's really no reason to accept anything less.
"Just Say NO".
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
1:10 p.m.
Should we be surprised at how and why classic-computing, this site in
particular, is so popular amongst the hobbyist/experimenter community
today? There is a modicum of control that?s lacking in today?s
computing, or computing-like, technology. Granted it?s ?easier? to
use/employ, nearly by all; everything, or almost, done without
consumer input but turning the infernal beast on. Or, maybe not with
the ?intelligence agents? been employed today! And even our computers
I dare say going this route. Automatic updates, etc., etc.,
happen?Making a computer or otherwise do what you want it to do,
rather than say an Apple or something akin, is fast becoming a thing
of the past. Freedom. Let?s hope it?s not pass? either!
I certainly agree with what you are saying.
I don't like to use stuff I don't understand -- in fact I actively avoid
it where possible. For that reason I don't even own a modern computer.
The old machines I understand -- both hardware and software. THey are
simple enough to do that with, ulike modern machines (Even if the
documentation was avaialble, which it often isn't). And the point of
being able to understnat them is that when things go wrong, or don't do
what i expect, I can figure out what it going on and fix/modify it.
Darn it, it's _my_ machine, I expect it to do what _I_ want.
-tony
14 Apr
14 Apr
5:40 p.m.
On 22-feb-2013 20:09, Murray McCullough wrote:
Should we be surprised at how and why
classic-computing, this site in
particular, is so popular amongst the hobbyist/experimenter community
today? There is a modicum of control that?s lacking in today?s
computing, or computing-like, technology. Granted it?s ?easier? to
use/employ, nearly by all; everything, or almost, done without
consumer input but turning the infernal beast on. Or, maybe not with
the ?intelligence agents? been employed today! And even our computers
I dare say going this route. Automatic updates, etc., etc.,
happen?Making a computer or otherwise do what you want it to do,
rather than say an Apple or something akin, is fast becoming a thing
of the past. Freedom. Let?s hope it?s not pass? either!
If you ask me, computing itself is something of the past. What is
actually 'computed' nowadays on the tons of worthless 'smart phones'
and other nonsensical wastes of cycles and electricity?
I'm not even near as old as some of those posting here and I'm
already bittered (or was, certainly, more so a while back).
I've come to accept that it's a consumerist culture where
everything is disposable. (In this supposedly 'more and more'
"green" world.) So, I've started not to care much and not
attach to much to a computer.
I do have these SGIs here to remind me of better times, with
one still very capable (SGI Tezro) to actually do some work
on.
- MG
6:02 p.m.
On 04/14/2013 08:40 PM, MG wrote:
On 22-feb-2013 20:09, Murray McCullough wrote:
I refuse to follow planned obsolescence. I will only dispose of the
system if it's absolutely worthless (like a pentium 4...I want that
garbage GONE) and I've scrapped it for any useful parts. Unfortunately
a lot of modern x86 systems are garbage...
However, almost all hardware before the pentium 3 I will do all my
effort to preserve and keep alive. For example: I have this pentium 2 I
refuse to part with (it's my nameserver) and my router is a Netra t1 105.
However...with phones? I replaced that pretty quickly (largely because
I don't really like Android and Google are evil)
If the hardware was made past a certain year...I don't find it worth
saving because it won't last. Like modern VCR/DVD combos? Those are
utter trash, they fail after a year and they're not worth fixing because
it's like they're almost made out of paper or something. I hate planned
obsolescence with a burning passion...I don't throw things away because
I don't have a use for it (unless it was $10 or less and was as
disposable as toilet paper), I usually save it for later or give it to a
good home. (The phone is a perfect example. I replaced the phone, but I
kept the old one. It's useful as a wifi remote control for things.)
Okay, I probably won't repair a microwave due to the dangers, but that's
why I like SHARP Microwaves...those pretty much don't fail. ;)
Wow. I'm probably younger than you and *I* just went on a rant!
Excuse the rant...
Should we be surprised at how and why
classic-computing, this site in
particular, is so popular amongst the hobbyist/experimenter community
today? There is a modicum of control that?s lacking in today?s
computing, or computing-like, technology. Granted it?s ?easier? to
use/employ, nearly by all; everything, or almost, done without
consumer input but turning the infernal beast on. Or, maybe not with
the ?intelligence agents? been employed today! And even our computers
I dare say going this route. Automatic updates, etc., etc.,
happen?Making a computer or otherwise do what you want it to do,
rather than say an Apple or something akin, is fast becoming a thing
of the past. Freedom. Let?s hope it?s not pass? either!
If you ask me, computing itself is something of the past. What is
actually 'computed' nowadays on the tons of worthless 'smart phones'
and other nonsensical wastes of cycles and electricity?
I'm not even near as old as some of those posting here and I'm
already bittered (or was, certainly, more so a while back).
I've come to accept that it's a consumerist culture where
everything is disposable. (In this supposedly 'more and more'
"green" world.) So, I've started not to care much and not
attach to much to a computer.
I do have these SGIs here to remind me of better times, with
one still very capable (SGI Tezro) to actually do some work
on.
I don't care if the system is capable, I just want it to LAST. I find
most systems pre-P3 WILL.
- MG
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
6:26 p.m.
If the hardware was made past a certain year...I
don't find it worth
saving because it won't last.
That may be true of the hardware you get, but there _is_ good-quality
hardware made even today. It's hard to find, and it costs (as quality
always does), but it exists. I once saw a machine - architecturally a
peecee - which looked as though it were intended for the sort of use
where a failure doesn't just mean a truck roll, it means chartering a
small airplane and at least two or three days of a bush pilot's time,
and that's before you even _think_ about the costs of the replacement
machine and the tech who goes along to do the swap.
I hate planned obsolescence with a burning passion...
I too, though I suspect your passion on this point burns rather hotter
than mine.
I don't throw things away because I don't have
a use for it [...]
Agreed. My parents were Depression-era kids, and it shows in some of
the attitudes I got from them. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do--
or do without." I just recently (three days ago) explained to someone
that taking a computer I was offering was actually doing me a favour,
because it lets me get rid of a machine without tripping my "aak!
throwing away working hardware!" issues.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
7:02 p.m.
On 04/14/2013 09:26 PM, Mouse wrote:
Yeah, that's the thing! It costs a crazy amount, but it DOES still
exist. You can't just go out to your local computer shop and pick up
something like my PII. ;) My Alphaserver ES40 is insanely well built
and would've cost a pretty penny. ;) I was discussing its original
price new with my dad and he didn't believe it! (and probably still
doesn't! He's he's not used to seeing absurdly well-built
top-of-the-line stuff!)
Possibly. ;)
I was given similar lessons from my grandfather...he's actually one of
the reasons I have an interest in some of the things I do. He worked at
Western Electric/AT&T testing equipment and doing minor repairs. He's
also where I got the ability to self-teach a lot of stuff. ;) He was
trained on the job for pretty much everything he did and he's a really
really smart guy. He grew up in a completely different world and has
had time to see times change. ;) I do occasionally have to explain to
him why I like the older equipment though! He doesn't mind when I try
and explain how stuff has changed. He remembers seeings setups similar
to my DECserver 200/MC and VT420 setup when he was working, so it's
interesting to hear what he has to say when I'm telling him about my
current project!
My exceptions to that rule ARE Pentium 3/4 and systems from that
period...I just feel dirty using them and I don't trust them as far as I
can throw them. A drunk elephant trapped in quicksand that's going
senile outperforms them (respective to what they are, not when comparing
them to modern speed expectations).
Long live the Pentium II and the 440-series chipsets! (and DEC and SGI
gear and so on)
If the hardware was made past a certain year...I
don't find it worth
saving because it won't last.
That may be true of the hardware you get, but there _is_ good-quality
hardware made even today. It's hard to find, and it costs (as quality
always does), but it exists. I once saw a machine - architecturally a
peecee - which looked as though it were intended for the sort of use
where a failure doesn't just mean a truck roll, it means chartering a
small airplane and at least two or three days of a bush pilot's time,
and that's before you even _think_ about the costs of the replacement
machine and the tech who goes along to do the swap. I hate planned obsolescence with a burning
passion...
I too, though I suspect your passion on this point burns rather hotter
than mine. I don't throw things away because I don't
have a use for it [...]
Agreed. My parents were Depression-era kids, and it shows in some of
the attitudes I got from them. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do--
or do without." I just recently (three days ago) explained to someone
that taking a computer I was offering was actually doing me a favour,
because it lets me get rid of a machine without tripping my "aak!
throwing away working hardware!" issues.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
7:54 p.m.
New subject: Rejecting the cult of waste - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 14/04/13 9:26 PM, Mouse wrote:
That is what I got from my parents, and I thank them every day for it.
The dominant culture thinks nothing of discarding working, useful
things. When it comes to electronics, it is fairly certain we junk far
more stuff in perfect working order, than faulty stuff.
Our only consolation is that one day, we will have to stop doing this.
It's a very finite rope. And boy, will we feel dumb then.
--Toby
If the
hardware was made past a certain year...I don't find it worth
saving because it won't last.
That may be true of the hardware you get, but there _is_ good-quality
hardware made even today. It's hard to find, and it costs (as quality
always does), but it exists. I once saw a machine - architecturally a
peecee - which looked as though it were intended for the sort of use
where a failure doesn't just mean a truck roll, it means chartering a
small airplane and at least two or three days of a bush pilot's time,
and that's before you even _think_ about the costs of the replacement
machine and the tech who goes along to do the swap.
I hate planned obsolescence with a burning
passion...
I too, though I suspect your passion on this point burns rather hotter
than mine.
I don't throw things away because I don't
have a use for it [...]
Agreed. My parents were Depression-era kids, and it shows in some of
the attitudes I got from them. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do-- or do without." I just recently (three days ago)
explained to someone
that taking a computer I was offering was actually doing me a favour,
because it lets me get rid of a machine without tripping my "aak!
throwing away working hardware!" issues.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:24 p.m.
New subject: Rejecting the cult of waste - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 14 Apr 2013, at 22:54, "Toby Thain" <toby at telegraphics.com.au>
wrote:
On 14/04/13 9:26 PM, Mouse wrote:
That is what I got from my parents, and I thank them every day for it.
The dominant culture thinks nothing of discarding working, useful things. When it comes
to electronics, it is fairly certain we junk far more stuff in perfect working order, than
faulty stuff.
That leaves us more to dumpster-dive for. ;)
If the
hardware was made past a certain year...I don't find it worth
saving because it won't last.
That may be true of the hardware you get, but there _is_ good-quality
hardware made even today. It's hard to find, and it costs (as quality
always does), but it exists. I once saw a machine - architecturally a
peecee - which looked as though it were intended for the sort of use
where a failure doesn't just mean a truck roll, it means chartering a
small airplane and at least two or three days of a bush pilot's time,
and that's before you even _think_ about the costs of the replacement
machine and the tech who goes along to do the swap.
I hate planned obsolescence with a burning
passion...
I too, though I suspect your passion on this point burns rather hotter
than mine.
I don't throw things away because I don't
have a use for it [...]
Agreed. My parents were Depression-era kids, and it shows in some of
the attitudes I got from them. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do--
Our only consolation is that one day, we will have to stop doing this. It's a very
finite rope. And boy, will we feel dumb then.
--Toby
or do without." I just recently (three days
ago) explained to someone
that taking a computer I was offering was actually doing me a favour,
because it lets me get rid of a machine without tripping my "aak!
throwing away working hardware!" issues.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
10:46 p.m.
New subject: Rejecting the cult of waste - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 14/04/13 11:24 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 14 Apr 2013, at 22:54, "Toby Thain"<toby at telegraphics.com.au>
wrote:
...
That's how I know it's true. But only a tiny part is meaningfully
reused, recycled, or repaired.
--T
The dominant culture thinks nothing of discarding
working, useful things. When it comes to electronics, it is fairly certain we junk far
more stuff in perfect working order, than faulty stuff.
That leaves us more to dumpster-dive for. ;)
Our only consolation is that one day, we will have to stop doing this. It's a very
finite rope. And boy, will we feel dumb then.
--Toby
or do without." I just recently (three days
ago) explained to someone
that taking a computer I was offering was actually doing me a favour,
because it lets me get rid of a machine without tripping my "aak!
throwing away working hardware!" issues.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8:45 p.m.
New subject: 1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS - craigslist ad
A very interesting Craigslist ad. Way over my budget though.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cbd/3739779845.html
1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS, MADE AT M.I.T. MODEL DU
Date: 2013-04-12, 2:45PM
1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS, MADE AT M.I.T. MODEL
DUMKOPF 1 USED FOR PLOT INTERCEPT OF MISSILES AND ARTILLERY. $100K.
CALL2025279501
HISTORIC 1953 UNIVAC 120/409 COMPUTER 19" PROCESSOR MODULE WITH
REMINGTON RAND TUBES AND COMPONENT CAGES IN ORIGINAL REMINGTON RAND BOX.
$10K. CALLS ONLY2025279501
altair computer from 1975 $3K. CALLS ONLY-NO EMAILS OR TEXTS
ANSWERED-2025279501
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial
interests
Original URL: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cbd/3739779845.html
9:01 p.m.
New subject: 1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS - craigslist ad
Also interesting is that it's the SF/Bay Area Craigslist, but the
area code is Washington DC. Photo's would have been nice.
Zane
At 8:45 PM -0700 4/14/13, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:
A very interesting Craigslist ad. Way over my budget
though.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cbd/3739779845.html
1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS, MADE AT M.I.T. MODEL DU
Date: 2013-04-12, 2:45PM
1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS, MADE AT M.I.T. MODEL
DUMKOPF 1 USED FOR PLOT INTERCEPT OF MISSILES AND ARTILLERY. $100K.
CALL2025279501
HISTORIC 1953 UNIVAC 120/409 COMPUTER 19" PROCESSOR MODULE WITH
REMINGTON RAND TUBES AND COMPONENT CAGES IN ORIGINAL REMINGTON RAND
BOX. $10K. CALLS ONLY2025279501
altair computer from 1975 $3K. CALLS ONLY-NO EMAILS OR TEXTS
ANSWERED-2025279501
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial
interests
Original URL: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cbd/3739779845.html
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
9:55 p.m.
New subject: 1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS - craigslist ad
On Apr 15, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Also interesting is that it's the SF/Bay Area
Craigslist, but the area code is Washington DC. Photo's would have been nice.
I live in Philadelphia and have a Baltimore area code. Blame
cell phones?
- Dave
9:16 p.m.
New subject: 1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS - craigslist ad
A very interesting Craigslist ad. Way over my budget
though.
1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS, MADE AT M.I.T. MODEL DUMKOPF
1 USED FOR PLOT INTERCEPT OF MISSILES AND ARTILLERY. $100K. CALL2025279501
I have never heard of this one, but my guess is that it is just some
kind of analog computer for mortar tracking that never escaped an MIT
lab. Neat, but not $100K neat.
--
Will
15 Apr
15 Apr
12:34 a.m.
New subject: 1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS - craigslist ad
On 15/04/2013 05:16, William Donzelli wrote:
At that time I am also pretty sure it would be
Analogue. Mind you the
model "DUMKOPF 1" smells slightly.
I would have said $1k never mind $100k....
A very
interesting Craigslist ad. Way over my budget though.
1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS, MADE AT M.I.T. MODEL DUMKOPF
1 USED FOR PLOT INTERCEPT OF MISSILES AND ARTILLERY. $100K. CALL2025279501
I have
never heard of this one, but my guess is that it is just some
kind of analog computer for mortar tracking that never escaped an MIT
lab. Neat, but not $100K neat. --
Will
--
Dave Wade G4UGM
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
6:51 a.m.
New subject: 1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS - craigslist ad
At 02:34 AM 4/15/2013, Dave Wade wrote:
At that time I am also pretty sure it would be
Analogue. Mind you the model "DUMKOPF 1" smells slightly.
Sounds perfectly 1954 to me.
I found pictures (by googling "dumbkopf 1" with the 'b'):
<http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!E2!2F!CB23D2C5AC8D/ARCHAICAUDIO/WESTERNELECTRIC/page11.html>http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!E2!2F!CB23D2C5AC8D/ARCHAICAUDIO/WESTERNELECTRIC/page11.html
And it looks like it was discussed on this list in June 2004.
<http://marc.info/?t=108686424500004&r=1&w=2>http://marc.info/?t=108686424500004&r=1&w=2
- John
6:58 a.m.
New subject: 1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS - craigslist ad
* William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> [130415 01:22]:
Model DUMKOPF huh?
Noun
Dummkopf m (genitive Dummkopfes or Dummkopfs, plural Dummk??pfe)
a fool, an idiot
A very
interesting Craigslist ad. Way over my budget though.
1954 VACUUM TUBE COMPUTER 7 FT. TALL, 700 LBS, MADE AT M.I.T. MODEL DUMKOPF
1 USED FOR PLOT INTERCEPT OF MISSILES AND ARTILLERY. $100K. CALL2025279501
I have never heard of this one, but my guess is that it is just some
kind of analog computer for mortar tracking that never escaped an MIT
lab. Neat, but not $100K neat.
6:31 a.m.
New subject: Rejecting the cult of waste - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 04/14/2013 10:54 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
That is what I got from my parents, and I thank them every day for it.
Same here, though it wasn't really spelled out like that for me. It was
more of the lifestyle I grew up in. We were poor, yet we wanted for nothing,
and life was good.
I don't throw things away because I don't have
a use for it [...]
Agreed. My parents were Depression-era kids, and it shows in some of
the attitudes I got from them. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do-- The dominant culture thinks nothing of discarding
working, useful things.
When it comes to electronics, it is fairly certain we junk far more stuff in
perfect working order, than faulty stuff.
Our only consolation is that one day, we will have to stop doing this. It's a
very finite rope. And boy, will we feel dumb then.
I doubt we will. The vast majority of us will be too dumb, or too sedated
by following sports or the escapades of Lindsay Lohan to notice. (which is,
of course, the point of their existence)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
1:36 p.m.
New subject: Rejecting the cult of waste - Re: Computing the old way - Is
On 04/14/2013 10:54 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
That is what I got from my parents, and I thank them every day for it.
Same here, though it wasn't really spelled out like that for me. It was
more of the lifestyle I grew up in. We were poor, yet we wanted for nothing,
and life was good.
And here. My parents would always try to fix things. You know, when the
washing machine leaked, my father would replace seals or hoses as
appropatie. When the overn didn't heat up, he'd test the elements with a
multimeter and repalce the open-circuit one, and so on. I was never
_epxlicitiy_ told this was the thing to do, but I guess I thought there
was no other eay to do it. And I've taken it ratehr further...
I don't throw things away because I don't have
a use for it [...]
Agreed. My parents were Depression-era kids, and it shows in some of
the attitudes I got from them. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do-- The dominant culture thinks nothing of discarding
working, useful things.
When it comes to electronics, it is fairly certain we junk far more stuff in
perfect working order, than faulty stuff.
Our only consolation is that one day, we will have to stop doing this. It's a
very finite rope. And boy, will we feel dumb then.
I doubt we will. The vast majority of us will be too dumb, or too sedated
by following sports or the escapades of Lindsay Lohan to notice. (which is,
of course, the point of their existence) 
14 Apr
14 Apr
6:38 p.m.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Wow. I'm probably younger than you and *I* just
went on a rant!
There's no age requirement.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
15 Apr
15 Apr
12:45 p.m.
However...with phones? I replaced that pretty quickly
(largely because
I don't really like Android and Google are evil)
I would be very happy without a cellular telephone at all. I would
certainly be happier if others with them could use them responsibly,
which means not shoutign int otehm for half an hour on public transport.
And which means not fiddlign with them when waling along the public
highway so they can't see where they're going.
And for landline phoens, I've got plenty of 700 series (1060's, 1970's)
that work fine and a 332 (1940's) in need of a bit of restoration. But
that I can do.
If the hardware was made past a certain year...I don't find it worth
saving because it won't last. Like modern VCR/DVD combos? Those are
utter trash, they fail after a year and they're not worth fixing because
it's like they're almost made out of paper or something. I hate planned
obsolescence with a burning passion...I don't throw things away because
Ditto.I actively look fo things that I can repair, can get proepr
docuemtnaion on, and can get parts for.
I don't have a use for it (unless it was $10 or
less and was as
disposable as toilet paper), I usually save it for later or give it to a
good home. (The phone is a perfect example. I replaced the phone, but I
kept the old one. It's useful as a wifi remote control for things.)
Okay, I probably won't repair a microwave due to the dangers, but that's
why I like SHARP Microwaves...those pretty much don't fail. ;)
I don't ahve a microwave oven, I prefer resistance heating... But I
don';t think I would refuse to repair one. Yes, there are _letahl_
votlages in there, so you have to go carefully and check everything as
you go.
The only thing I 'own' thet I don't fix myself is my cat :-)
-tony
2:29 p.m.
On 04/15/2013 03:45 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
I would agree as well, but due to very poor eyesight, a smartphone
benefits me.
Exactly! Which reminds me, I need to get around to looking at what
failed on that '50s phonograph in the basement...
Understandable, there's just one here so I use it.
However...with phones? I replaced that pretty
quickly (largely because
I don't really like Android and Google are evil)
I would be very happy without a cellular telephone at all. I would
certainly be happier if others with them could use them responsibly,
which means not shoutign int otehm for half an hour on public transport.
And which means not fiddlign with them when waling along the public
highway so they can't see where they're going.
And for landline phoens, I've got plenty of 700 series (1060's, 1970's)
that work fine and a 332 (1940's) in need of a bit of restoration. But
that I can do.
Those will pretty much last forever.
If the hardware was made past a certain year...I don't find it worth
saving because it won't last. Like modern VCR/DVD combos? Those are
utter trash, they fail after a year and they're not worth fixing because
it's like they're almost made out of paper or something. I hate planned
obsolescence with a burning passion...I don't throw things away because
Ditto.I actively look fo things that I can repair, can get proepr
docuemtnaion on, and can get parts for. I don't have a use for it (unless it was $10
or less and was as
disposable as toilet paper), I usually save it for later or give it to a
good home. (The phone is a perfect example. I replaced the phone, but I
kept the old one. It's useful as a wifi remote control for things.)
Okay, I probably won't repair a microwave due to the dangers, but that's
why I like SHARP Microwaves...those pretty much don't fail. ;)
I don't ahve a microwave oven, I prefer resistance heating... But I
don';t think I would refuse to repair one. Yes, there are _letahl_
votlages in there, so you have to go carefully and check everything as
you go.
The only thing I 'own' thet I don't fix myself is my cat :-)
Yeah, manufacturers don't exactly release schematics for those. :)
-tony
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
16 Apr
16 Apr
7:16 a.m.
New subject: Repairing cats? - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 15/04/13 5:29 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote:
On 04/15/2013 03:45 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Douglas Adams cautioned against it.
"One of the problems of taking things apart and seeing how they work
- supposing you're trying to find out how a cat works - you take that
cat apart to see how it works, what you've got in your hands is a
non-working cat. The cat wasn't a sort of clunky mechanism that was
susceptible to our available tools of analysis."
--Toby
...
The only thing I 'own' thet I don't fix myself is my cat :-)
Yeah, manufacturers don't exactly release schematics for those. :)
-tony
12:08 p.m.
And for
landline phoens, I've got plenty of 700 series (1060's, 1970's)
that work fine and a 332 (1940's) in need of a bit of restoration. But
that I can do.
Those will pretty much last forever. The only thing
I 'own' thet I don't fix myself is my cat :-)
Yeah, manufacturers don't exactly release schematics for those. :)
17 Apr
17 Apr
1:05 p.m.
> > And for landline phoens, I've got
plenty of 700 series (1060's, 1970's)
> > that work fine and a 332 (1940's) in need of a bit of restoration. But
> > that I can do.
> Those will pretty much last forever.
other than some annoying carbon granule clumping.
15 Apr
15 Apr
12:27 a.m.
On 15/04/2013 01:40, MG wrote:
On 22-feb-2013 20:09, Murray McCullough wrote:
My WeightWatcher Points,
get Up-to-date weather forecast,
SatNav,
read alt.folklore.computers
read cctalk
Should we be surprised at how and why
classic-computing, this site in
particular, is so popular amongst the hobbyist/experimenter community
today? There is a modicum of control that?s lacking in today?s
computing, or computing-like, technology. Granted it?s ?easier? to
use/employ, nearly by all; everything, or almost, done without
consumer input but turning the infernal beast on. Or, maybe not with
the ?intelligence agents? been employed today! And even our computers
I dare say going this route. Automatic updates, etc., etc.,
happen?Making a computer or otherwise do what you want it to do,
rather than say an Apple or something akin, is fast becoming a thing
of the past. Freedom. Let?s hope it?s not pass? either!
If you ask me, computing itself is something of the past. What is
actually 'computed' nowadays on the tons of worthless 'smart phones'
and other nonsensical wastes of cycles and electricity?
I'm not even near as old as some of those posting
here and I'm
already bittered (or was, certainly, more so a while back).
I've come to accept that it's a consumerist culture where
everything is disposable. (In this supposedly 'more and more'
"green" world.) So, I've started not to care much and not
attach to much to a computer.
Its getting harder not to dispose. In the UK we are on our third
generation of Digital TV boxes and as analogue broadcasting has ended
you have to have a box that is compatible with the latest incarnation of
the standards. Recently I disposed of a "first generation" box as
although the chipset inside was compatible with current standards the
firmware wasn't. I did search to see if it could be upgraded but
apparently not. Even rescuing SMD components isn't as easy as discrete.
You MUST have an LCR meter to check with.
I do have these SGIs here to remind me of better
times, with
one still very capable (SGI Tezro) to actually do some work
on.
Must fix my SPARC station. I think the hard disk has died and I didn't
have a backup....
- MG
Dave
G4UGM
--
Dave Wade G4UGM
Illegitimi Non Carborundum
12:37 p.m.
If you ask me, computing itself is something of the
past. What is
actually 'computed' nowadays on the tons of worthless 'smart phones'
and other nonsensical wastes of cycles and electricity?
I think I've mentioend this before, but whenever I see an advert for a
computer, or some poor salesman tries to sell me one, they tell me it can
store all my photos [1], store all my msuic [2]. etc. Not a single word
about programming it . And yet that's waht I want a computer for.
[1] Oh yes? What, even 5*4 sheet film?
[2] And 1/4" recording tape?
I'm not even near as old as some of those posting here and I'm
already bittered (or was, certainly, more so a while back).
I've come to accept that it's a consumerist culture where
everything is disposable. (In this supposedly 'more and more'
"green" world.) So, I've started not to care much and not
attach to much to a computer.
I actively look for things I can repair (even simple, cheap things) and
flatly refuse ot buy any product consint more than, say \pounds 10.00
that I cannot fix. If this means I have to use older, better-built
things, so be it.
I do have these SGIs here to remind me of better times, with
one still very capable (SGI Tezro) to actually do some work
on.
My classic computers do all I need to do....
-tony
2:18 p.m.
On 04/15/2013 03:37 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
I would do the same if I had more repair skill and an endless assortment
of spare electronic components. I'm still acquiring stockpiles. ;)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
If you ask me, computing itself is something of
the past. What is
actually 'computed' nowadays on the tons of worthless 'smart phones'
and other nonsensical wastes of cycles and electricity?
I think I've mentioend this before, but whenever I see an advert for a
computer, or some poor salesman tries to sell me one, they tell me it can
store all my photos [1], store all my msuic [2]. etc. Not a single word
about programming it . And yet that's waht I want a computer for.
[1] Oh yes? What, even 5*4 sheet film?
[2] And 1/4" recording tape?
I'm not even near as old as some of those posting here and I'm
already bittered (or was, certainly, more so a while back).
I've come to accept that it's a consumerist culture where
everything is disposable. (In this supposedly 'more and more'
"green" world.) So, I've started not to care much and not
attach to much to a computer.
I actively look for things I can repair (even simple, cheap things) and
flatly refuse ot buy any product consint more than, say \pounds 10.00
that I cannot fix. If this means I have to use older, better-built
things, so be it.
I do have these SGIs here to remind me of better times, with
one still very capable (SGI Tezro) to actually do some work
on.
My classic computers do all I need to do....
-tony
3:13 p.m.
I actually know someone who uses a modern system to convert older audio
formats to digital formats (usually FLAC). They also have a 1200dpi scanner
(so old it's SCSI) they use for film or printed pictures. Works
surprisingly well, the only things they have that aren't part of any brand
new modern system are a SCSI controller and a PCI sound card that has
stereo input.
9:18 p.m.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, Tony Duell wrote:
I think I've mentioend this before, but whenever I
see an advert for a
computer, or some poor salesman tries to sell me one, they tell me it can
store all my photos [1], store all my msuic [2]. etc. Not a single word
about programming it . And yet that's waht I want a computer for.
[1] Oh yes? What, even 5*4 sheet film?
[2] And 1/4" recording tape?
A hollowed out microcomputer can hold a few thousand sheets of 4x5 film,
or half a dozen reels of 1/2" recording tape.
A hollowed out minicomputer, . . .
A hollowed out mainfram, . . .
My classic computers do all I need to do....
I
only have a few hundred sheets of film, a few thousand 35mm
negatives and/or transparencies, and less than a thousand feet of 16mm
film. It doesn't take a very large computer case to hold those.
Maybe I should consider digitizing most of it.
I have to admit that my cameras occupy more space than my total cumulative
output from them.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
16 Apr
16 Apr
10:07 a.m.
On 04/15/2013 12:37 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
I actively look for things I can repair (even simple,
cheap things) and
flatly refuse ot buy any product consint more than, say \pounds 10.00
that I cannot fix. If this means I have to use older, better-built
things, so be it.
Half the battle of repairing some stuff is (1) having the right tools
and (2) knowing what tools are needed.
Yesterday, I re-soled a pair of work boots, said boots being one of the
rare instances of footwear that doesn't make my size 13s hurt. The
Vibram replacement soles were easy enough to come by, but how to attach
them? Many people suggested contact cement or neoprene cement. From
experience, I've learned that neither is very durable in the long run.
After a lot of digging, I discovered that shoe repair shops use a
special brand of contact cement known as "Barge" cement. The stuff
stinks like heck and soaks into rubber, so a 6 ounce tube barely
suffices for a pair of soles. But the bond is unassailable by moisture
or wear.
Of course, this would have been unnecessary had the city's last shoe
repair shop not closed. Apparently, shoes are yet another thing that
people now discard rather than refurbish. Most likely this occurs
because of cheaply-made inexpensive imports.
So computer gear isn't alone in the "don't replace, throw away"
category.
--Chuck
10:27 a.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 16/04/13 1:07 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
... computer gear isn't alone in the
"don't replace, throw away" category.
It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe
repairers, though.
--Toby
--Chuck
10:47 a.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 04/16/2013 01:27 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
Much to the delight of slimy salesmen everywhere.
... computer
gear isn't alone in the "don't replace, throw away" category.
It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe
repairers, though.
There's one a mile or two from my place, but this is a very old area. He's
still open, in his tiny little shop...I don't know how much business he gets,
but I hope it's "some" at least.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
12:12 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 04/16/2013 01:47 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/16/2013 01:27 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
Much to the delight of slimy salesmen everywhere.
I hope so as well, it takes dedication to keep a business like that open
this long. I'm betting he's pretty good at repairing shoes by now. :)
...
computer gear isn't alone in the "don't replace, throw away" category.
It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe
repairers, though.
There's one a mile or two from my place, but this is a very old area. He's
still open, in his tiny little shop...I don't know how much business he gets,
but I hope it's "some" at least.
-Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
11:20 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 04/16/2013 01:27 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
In Bakersfield, CA, there's a shop in the shape of a giant shoe that still
houses a working shoe-repair shop. It's called "The Big Shoe" and can be
found in a coffee table book of weirdly-shaped buildings in the US.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe
repairers, though.
There's one a mile or two from my place, but this is a very old area.
He's still open, in his tiny little shop...I don't know how much
business he gets, but I hope it's "some" at least.
10:47 a.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
On 16/04/13 1:07 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
We have them in Philadelphia, too. It can get hard to justify
when it costs more to repair/resole a shoe than to buy a new
pair, but my wife is an opera performer, so sometimes it's
important enough to repair a pair that looks good.
Appliances are my big beef. I have a coffee maker with the
grinder built in that I REALLY like. Somehow, the bottom part
got colonized by roaches (which, fortunately, don't seem to
have taken root anywhere else in the house), so I thoroughly
flushed it out with soap and water and let it dry for about a
month. Everything works EXCEPT the transistor that switches
the relay that turns on the heater, which makes it pretty
useless as a coffee maker. Taking the thing apart was totally
impossible without marring the appearance, and some parts are
nearly impossible to put back together; the low-voltage PSU
for the microcontroller and the relay were all sealed in a
caulked-up box at the bottom that was impossible to remove.
I still think I can fix it, since I've identified the bad
transistor, but if it weren't a $200 coffee maker, I don't
think I'd have considered it worth the effort. Things just
aren't made to be fixed anymore; you can't buy replacement
PSU or controller boards, so if the microcontroller had died,
there'd be basically no hope.
As a side note, we've been getting along fine with a separate
grinder and a Farberware percolator whose design hasn't been
changed since at least the '60s with the exception of using
an IEC receptacle for the power cord. So there's that. My
in-laws still use theirs from the '60s, so I'm reasonably
confident that it should last.
- Dave
... computer gear isn't alone in the
"don't replace, throw away" category.
It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe repairers,
though. 
11:16 a.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
I still think I can fix it, since I've identified
the bad
transistor, but if it weren't a $200 coffee maker, I don't
think I'd have considered it worth the effort. Things just
aren't made to be fixed anymore; you can't buy replacement
PSU or controller boards, so if the microcontroller had died,
there'd be basically no hope.
Some people do that for fun. Like me :o)
12:07 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:16 PM, "Alexandre Souza - Listas" <pu1bzz.listas at
gmail.com> wrote:
I fix things for fun, but fixing this coffee maker has NOT
been fun. Part of that has been the awful construction of
the machine - it was clearly NEVER meant to be taken apart,
because a lot of the wiring harnesses were run through small
slots BEFORE their sockets were attached, and the resulting
wires are too short to allow the thing to be taken apart.
The other not-so-nice part has been the apparently indelible
scent of toasted cockroach mixed with the aroma of soggy,
stale coffee beans that fell over the years into the water
reservoir.
I'd rather fix the percolator next time, but I doubt it'll
break before this thing kicks it again.
- Dave
I still think
I can fix it, since I've identified the bad
transistor, but if it weren't a $200 coffee maker, I don't
think I'd have considered it worth the effort. Things just
aren't made to be fixed anymore; you can't buy replacement
PSU or controller boards, so if the microcontroller had died,
there'd be basically no hope.
Some people do that for fun. Like me :o)
1:08 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
The other not-so-nice part has been the apparently
indelible
scent of toasted cockroach mixed with the aroma of soggy,
stale coffee beans that fell over the years into the water
reservoir.
Mental note - when at Dave's house, ask for tea.
--
Will
2:15 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 16/04/2013 21:08, William Donzelli wrote:
I would have said instant coffee. Who know what he has had in the Teapot :-)
The other
not-so-nice part has been the apparently indelible
scent of toasted cockroach mixed with the aroma of soggy,
stale coffee beans that fell over the years into the water
reservoir.
Mental note - when at Dave's house, ask for tea.
--
Will
Dave
G4UGM
3:32 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On Apr 16, 2013, at 17:15, Dave <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> wrote:
On 16/04/2013 21:08, William Donzelli wrote:
I would have said instant coffee. Who know what he has had in the Teapot :-)
Oh, we just stick with standard Boiled Rat Tea. Nothing to
fuss about.
- Dave
The other
not-so-nice part has been the apparently indelible
scent of toasted cockroach mixed with the aroma of soggy,
stale coffee beans that fell over the years into the water
reservoir.
Mental note - when at Dave's house, ask for tea.
17 Apr
17 Apr
1:10 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing
I would have said instant coffee. Who know what he has
had in the
Teapot :-)
An old trick if you have a 'rubber' drive blet htat is slipping is to
boilt it up in water for a few minutes. If you do that in the kettle that
you use to make tea/coffee, then said drinks tast odd for a couple of
weeks afterwards.
Probablyu best to bring a small dewar flaks contianing the hot drink of
chice...
-tony
16 Apr
16 Apr
2:50 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On Apr 16, 2013, at 16:08, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Ha! We're not barbarians here. If the bugs had gotten on
any of the parts that actually handled the water or coffee,
I would have thrown the thing out without thinking twice.
Fortunately, the circuitry is kept well isolated from the water
(presumably for the obvious reasons) and they were only
interested in the heater. No smell once it's closed up, either.
- Dave
The other
not-so-nice part has been the apparently indelible
scent of toasted cockroach mixed with the aroma of soggy,
stale coffee beans that fell over the years into the water
reservoir.
Mental note - when at Dave's house, ask for tea.
7:35 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 04/16/2013 05:50 PM, David Riley wrote:
Ha! We're not barbarians here. If the bugs had gotten on
any of the parts that actually handled the water or coffee,
I would have thrown the thing out without thinking twice.
Fortunately, the circuitry is kept well isolated from the water
(presumably for the obvious reasons) and they were only
interested in the heater. No smell once it's closed up, either.
I had a coffee maker about six or seven years ago that inexplicably became
infested with ants. When I cracked it open to clean it out (which was
dubious to begin with) I found that they were all clustered around what
looked like some silicone sealant in one part of the machine. Something
about that big blob of sealant attracted them. That was the only place in
the machine where there were ants.
It hit the trash, needless to say.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
The other not-so-nice part has been the apparently
indelible
scent of toasted cockroach mixed with the aroma of soggy,
stale coffee beans that fell over the years into the water
reservoir.
Mental note - when at Dave's house, ask for tea. 
7:58 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
I was once given a Sinclair ZX-81 that had an ant's nest in it. It fired
up but by the keyboard didn't work. A common problem in those machines
now, ants or not.
Terry (Tez)
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 04/16/2013 05:50 PM, David Riley wrote:
Ha! We're not barbarians here. If the bugs had gotten on
any of the parts that actually handled the water or coffee,
I would have thrown the thing out without thinking twice.
Fortunately, the circuitry is kept well isolated from the water
(presumably for the obvious reasons) and they were only
interested in the heater. No smell once it's closed up, either.
I had a coffee maker about six or seven years ago that inexplicably
became
infested with ants. When I cracked it open to clean it out (which was
dubious to begin with) I found that they were all clustered around what
looked like some silicone sealant in one part of the machine. Something
about that big blob of sealant attracted them. That was the only place in
the machine where there were ants.
It hit the trash, needless to say.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
The other not-so-nice part has been the apparently
indelible
scent of toasted cockroach mixed with the aroma of soggy,
stale coffee beans that fell over the years into the water
reservoir.
Mental note - when at Dave's house, ask for tea. 
17 Apr
17 Apr
6:55 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
I had a coffee maker about six or seven years ago
that inexplicably became
infested with ants. When I cracked it open to clean it out (which was
dubious to begin with) I found that they were all clustered around what
looked like some silicone sealant in one part of the machine. Something
about that big blob of sealant attracted them. That was the only place in
the machine where there were ants.
If I had to guess, I'd suspect it was acetic acid in the RTV.
-ethan
16 Apr
16 Apr
11:41 a.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 4/16/2013 10:47 AM, David Riley wrote:
There are shoe repair services
(more than one) in Orange County, ca, but
my latest service that went missing was knife sharpening.
jim
>It's
infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe repairers, though.
We have them in Philadelphia, too. It can get hard to justify
when it costs more to repair/resole a shoe than to buy a new
pair, but my wife is an opera performer, so sometimes it's
important enough to repair a pair that looks good.
3:34 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On Apr 16, 2013, at 14:41, jim s <jwsmail at jwsss.com> wrote:
On 4/16/2013 10:47 AM, David Riley wrote:
There are shoe repair services
(more than one) in Orange County, ca, but my latest service that went missing was knife
sharpening.
At least in Philly, both services (plus scissor sharpening and
key duplication) are available from most of the Korean-owned
dry cleaning shops. It's odd, but they do a pretty good job.
- Dave
>It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe repairers,
though.
We have them in Philadelphia, too. It can get hard to justify
when it costs more to repair/resole a shoe than to buy a new
pair, but my wife is an opera performer, so sometimes it's
important enough to repair a pair that looks good. 
17 Apr
17 Apr
3:29 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
tis 2013-04-16 klockan 11:41 -0700 skrev jim s:
On 4/16/2013 10:47 AM, David Riley wrote:
There are shoe repair services
(more than one) in Orange County, ca, but
my latest service that went missing was knife sharpening.
jim
DON'T YOU have any really good restaurants ??
Where do you think the chefs go with their knives ? Ask them.
>It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe repairers,
though.
We have them in Philadelphia, too. It can get hard to justify
when it costs more to repair/resole a shoe than to buy a new
pair, but my wife is an opera performer, so sometimes it's
important enough to repair a pair that looks good. 
7:17 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 18/04/2013, at 8:29 AM, "stefan skoglund(agj)" <stefan.skoglund at
agj.net> wrote:
DON'T YOU have any really good restaurants ??
Where do you think the chefs go with their knives ? Ask them.
Don't good chefs know how to sharpen their own knives?
Good butchers certainly do, it use to be part of their training.
Likewise a good carpenter knows how to sharpen their own chisels.
7:07 a.m.
New subject: Keep a sharp knife - Re: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way
On 17/04/13 6:29 PM, stefan skoglund(agj) wrote:
tis 2013-04-16 klockan 11:41 -0700 skrev jim s:
We have knife sharpening services in Toronto, too. In fact I need to go
visit one soon.
I use Nella Cucina, on this list:
http://www.blogto.com/toronto/lists/the_top_10_places_to_buy_kitchen_knives…
We even have indie knife specialists!
http://www.torontolife.com/daily-dish/openings/2010/06/01/just-opened-knife…
--Toby
On 4/16/2013 10:47 AM, David Riley wrote:
There are shoe repair services
(more than one) in Orange County, ca, but
my latest service that went missing was knife sharpening.
jim
DON'T YOU have any really good restaurants ??
Where do you think the chefs go with their knives ? Ask them.
>
It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe repairers,
though.
We have them in Philadelphia, too. It can get hard to justify
when it costs more to repair/resole a shoe than to buy a new
pair, but my wife is an opera performer, so sometimes it's
important enough to repair a pair that looks good.
16 Apr
16 Apr
12:15 p.m.
New subject: don't fix, throw away - Re: Computing the old way - Is it a thing of the past?
On 04/16/2013 01:47 PM, David Riley wrote:
On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
Hey, so it's like SHARP microwaves! Those things don't change and they
last forever. Seriously.
On 16/04/13 1:07 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
We have them in Philadelphia, too. It can get hard to justify
when it costs more to repair/resole a shoe than to buy a new
pair, but my wife is an opera performer, so sometimes it's
important enough to repair a pair that looks good.
Appliances are my big beef. I have a coffee maker with the
grinder built in that I REALLY like. Somehow, the bottom part
got colonized by roaches (which, fortunately, don't seem to
have taken root anywhere else in the house), so I thoroughly
flushed it out with soap and water and let it dry for about a
month. Everything works EXCEPT the transistor that switches
the relay that turns on the heater, which makes it pretty
useless as a coffee maker. Taking the thing apart was totally
impossible without marring the appearance, and some parts are
nearly impossible to put back together; the low-voltage PSU
for the microcontroller and the relay were all sealed in a
caulked-up box at the bottom that was impossible to remove.
I still think I can fix it, since I've identified the bad
transistor, but if it weren't a $200 coffee maker, I don't
think I'd have considered it worth the effort. Things just
aren't made to be fixed anymore; you can't buy replacement
PSU or controller boards, so if the microcontroller had died,
there'd be basically no hope.
As a side note, we've been getting along fine with a separate
grinder and a Farberware percolator whose design hasn't been
changed since at least the '60s with the exception of using
an IEC receptacle for the power cord. So there's that. My
in-laws still use theirs from the '60s, so I'm reasonably
confident that it should last. ... computer gear isn't alone in the
"don't replace, throw away" category.
It's infected everything. This city (Toronto) still has leather/shoe repairers,
though.
- Dave
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments
10:57 a.m.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
After a lot of digging, I discovered that shoe repair
shops use a
special brand of contact cement known as "Barge" cement. The stuff
stinks like heck and soaks into rubber, so a 6 ounce tube barely
suffices for a pair of soles. But the bond is unassailable by moisture
or wear.
Barge changed their formula ("can't use xxx in the formula anymore").
The current stuff is crap compared to what it once was. A friend has
been watching eBay for NOS of the old formula, without success.
One ad had the new formula, but the picture was the packaging
of the old formula.
My shoes have been discontinued, and replaced (with the same model
name!) by something unrepairable and unwearable (found in attempts
to buy NOS on eBay).
When the soles on my current shoes (on their 4th set) came loose
("new formula"?), there are no more shoe repair shops, I had to use
"Shoe Goo". Despite it's silly name that does not inspire confidence,
it actually seems to be holding OK.
Of course, this would have been unnecessary had the
city's last shoe
repair shop not closed. Apparently, shoes are yet another thing that
people now discard rather than refurbish. Most likely this occurs
because of cheaply-made inexpensive imports.
Most modern shoes are not resoleable. Most don't even have a slip-sole!
AND they're so badly made that the uppers are worn-out before the soles,
AND the public has been conditioned to demand NEW shoes instead of
re-soling, which costs a good chunk of what the new ones cost.
So computer gear isn't alone in the
"don't replace, throw away" category.
What ISN'T "throw-away"?
I was on the curriculum committee, and was the "SOLE" dissenting vote
in their decision to close one of the last shoe repair training programs.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
12:06 p.m.
On 04/16/2013 10:57 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Barge changed their formula ("can't use xxx in the formula anymore").
The current stuff is crap compared to what it once was. A friend has
been watching eBay for NOS of the old formula, without success.
One ad had the new formula, but the picture was the packaging
of the old formula.
The old formula used toluene--I did learn that. Perhaps mixing some of
that (I can get it at a paint store) into the new formula may make a
difference.
Most modern shoes are not resoleable. Most don't
even have a slip-sole!
AND they're so badly made that the uppers are worn-out before the soles,
AND the public has been conditioned to demand NEW shoes instead of
re-soling, which costs a good chunk of what the new ones cost.
A lot of "leather" shoes are now made by gluing pieces of leather to a
cotton "sock" and then adding some light stitching where appearance
matters. Soles seem to be universally glued on, rather than sewn.
Garbage-for-looks.
--Chuck
17 Apr
17 Apr
1:11 p.m.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
The original formula is still available (yellow label), just only in large
quart or gallon size containers (like their thinner). The smaller metal
tubes (blue label) are only available with the newer formula. IIRC, they
changed the formula so they could take out the Toluene.
After a lot of digging, I discovered that shoe
repair shops use a
special brand of contact cement known as "Barge" cement. The stuff
stinks like heck and soaks into rubber, so a 6 ounce tube barely
suffices for a pair of soles. But the bond is unassailable by moisture
or wear.
Barge changed their formula ("can't use xxx in the formula anymore").
The current stuff is crap compared to what it once was. A friend has
been watching eBay for NOS of the old formula, without success. One ad
had the new formula, but the picture was the packaging of the old
formula.
4035
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