Max Eskin wrote: The QT toolkit that KDE is based on is now fully open source. And it _wasn't_ shipped with RedHat. If you can name a RedHat module without open source, I'll eat a source listing. Aside from CDE, Motif, ApplixWare and other things that were commercial or released with the GNU library license before Linus Torvalds started college, actually. A lot of stuff seems to be going open source lately. And at least as much information shows up per month on the "commercial" Internet as happened per decade when it was "free" to "scientific-academic-university spirit" users (at taxpayer expense) -- and most of the previous BBS _owners_ have moved to the Net, even most of the ones who used to write BBS software and sell it or give it away. My BBS calls in the mid-80s tended to cost me $100 or more per month -- serious beer money -- in "local" calls. My ISP subscription is a bit less. Admittedly the quality of Usenet has gone downhill since the days when I could manage a full feed -- and pass it on -- at 1200 baud. RMS is essentially Trotskyite, he's basing things things on traditional (failed) economic models. Stallman grew up in the heyday of Marxism in American universities, Linus came of age as European socialism was failing (though you'll have a job convincing the associated governments of that -- they have guns, their citizens generally don't). Linus uses an anarchosyndicalist model, which works fine. I prefer the anarchocapitalist model. Anarchosyndicalists and Anarchocapitalists get along fine as long as the State stays out of the way. Marxism is welcome to compete with those models on the open market -- it works in small communities as long as they allow the right of pedal franchise. -- Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.