26 May
1999
26 May
'99
8:32 a.m.
If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my
apologies.
I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on
discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to
be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and
educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of
lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being
weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do
something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it.
Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the
response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K
and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential
problem.
Colan
26 May
26 May
9:09 a.m.
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9:49 a.m.
Colan Mitchell wrote:
If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my
apologies.
I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on
discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to
As standard procedure, I use Nortons DISKWIPE on all disks before I send
them out again (everything so far has been below the 2.1 GB partition
limit.) The most fun I had was when I loaned out a disk to a friend, he used
it and had someone else remove it. This idiot put the volume label "BIG
FUCKER" on the disk which served to push my buttons and he had only
reformatted the drive. After recovering all the files and breaking the
passwords, I gave it back to my friend and then did the job properly.
When talking to others responsible for computers, tell them that story and
also the one where one of the hard drives I acquired had all the banks
financial loan records for a number of people around town. I let the
appropriate people know about that one, and again, properly wiped the disk.
Spreading these types of stories around tends to make people more aware of
the problem.
10:39 a.m.
Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish
any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be
revealed.
Maybe we'll get another hype a la Y2K but with more educating content.
Sipke de Wal
Colan Mitchell wrote:
If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined the list my
apologies.
I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on
discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to
be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and
educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of
lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being
weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do
something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it.
Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the
response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K
and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential
problem.
Colan
11:16 a.m.
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11:58 a.m.
At 12:16 AM 5/27/99 +0100, Tony wrote:
Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do? [inform
the press]
YES! let's get this straight folks, there is nothing "wrong" about giving
someone a computer that has personal and private information on it, it
means you are trusting them to delete it. But it is VERY wrong if you come
into possesion of personal and private information to exploit it.
Now Allison's point is well taken that the lawyer's who give you a computer
with confidential files have used bad judgement trusting you to protect it
(assuming you don't) but _you_ break the law when you reveal confidential
information.
The "problem" here would be people who use information they find on
disposed computers for personal pleasure or gain.
If this issue was too visible I'd be finding more machines like my
MicroVAXEN that were 100% operational except the previous owner (GE) had
all the media devices (hard drives, tape drives, etc) sent to the crusher.
--Chuck
12:42 p.m.
Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words:
Someone else said:
> Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care
that they do not publish
> any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be
> revealed.
Eeeek!! No, Please! :-(
Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do?
Seems to me as well.
At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I
hope) are sensible
about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a
machine with such data on it.
The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none
of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that
[Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody
could ever read them"
Right. Now, I'm all for education, but don't blow the problem out of hand!
The media sure loves that (can you say "O.J. Simpson","Y2K",etc.?) and
look
what happens after the media grabs hold - they never let go.
If you got the machine from a lawyer/doctor/etc. you don't know, just wipe
the data and be on with your life... but if said "professional" is a fairly
good friend, you might be able to go to that person and say:
"You know, that machine you gave me still had some confidential info on it.
I didn't look at it, wiped it clean, and covered your ass. If any more
machines come my way that have personal data on them, rest assured that I
won't look at the info, and will delete it immediately. I really appreciate
the machine, and I'm really glad you didn't destroy it, and if any of your
(insert profession here) friends have older machines they're upgrading
from, **you might wish to remind them gently to be sure to wipe the data
first.**"
[[ Editor's Note: Instead of what's contained in the **'s, you could
instead insert "you might wish to let them know that I offer a very
*affordable* confidential information wiping service, the charge for the
service is that I get to keep the machine after the confidential info is
destroyed." :-) ]]
Obviously, this is a rough draft, and you might have to adjust for
Politically Correctness and whatnot, but if you make it sound like you're
doing them a big favor, they're more likely to trust you with new giveaways
in the future, right?
Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but if you think I'm right, then your
worldview must be as skewed as mine! ;^>
Just my $0.00000000000000002, and that's all it's worth!
"Merch"
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
29 May
29 May
3:10 p.m.
Fair enough, You make a point regarding continued aviability of classic
computers. And going straight to the press would indeed be foolish. But
it may make sense that the public be educated on this issue otherwise
somebody may inadvertently create some vital-info leak an all the press
jumps the bandwagon in a way that will make every body as distrustfull
as
about the Y2K issue.
Therefore my remarks should have been taken a bit ironously. :)
Sipkw
Tony Duell wrote:
Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish
any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be
revealed.
Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do?
At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I hope) are sensible
about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a
machine with such data on it.
The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none
of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that
[Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody
could ever read them"
-tony
3:20 p.m.
A last thought on this for you legal guys out there! Would'n it be
sensible to design some kind of 'declaration of trust' regarding private
content of equipment. So that the receivers can be held responsable for
any irrisponsable disclosure of private data. And also that the donator
has signifies that he has (had) knowledge about the informational
content of his donation. In serious cases a Judge may decide who has
acted liable. But most of ours would live by such a contact and it may
endorse reliable image about the restoration and preservation of classic
hardware & software.
Sipke de Wal
Tony Duell wrote:
Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish
any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be
revealed.
Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do?
At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I hope) are sensible
about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a
machine with such data on it.
The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none
of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that
[Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody
could ever read them"
-tony 
4:26 p.m.
I wasn't following this thread but here's my opinion.
A buy a house and everything it contains. There just happenes to be a treasure
map in there leading me to a pot of gold. who owns the gold? ME.
Bottom line: Clean house before selling.
Unless I buy an old computer from the government, I wouldn't waste any time
looking for any information on there. If the gov't left plans/info about a
nuclear device in there, I'm sure they wouldn't blame me if I tried to publish
it. They'd just raid my house, confiscate all my stuff, throw me in a hole
somewhere untill they're satisfied with my answers to their questions, drop me
off on some remote desert road and deny it ever happened. If they ever
admitted they forgot to delete the drive's contents they'd be the joke of the
century. Same with everybody.
Sipke de Wal wrote:
A last thought on this for you legal guys out there!
Would'n it be
sensible to design some kind of 'declaration of trust' regarding private
content of equipment. So that the receivers can be held responsable for
any irrisponsable disclosure of private data. And also that the donator
has signifies that he has (had) knowledge about the informational
content of his donation. In serious cases a Judge may decide who has
acted liable. But most of ours would live by such a contact and it may
endorse reliable image about the restoration and preservation of classic
hardware & software.
Sipke de Wal
Tony Duell wrote:
>
> >
> > Maybe you should inform the press. Taking care that they do not publish
> > any sensitive data and stipulating that your personalia will not be
> > revealed.
>
> Isn't that the _worst_ thing you could do?
>
> At the moment there is no problem. All of us here (I hope) are sensible
> about deleting personal data. So there is no risk in giving any of us a
> machine with such data on it.
>
> The last thing we need is the public saying "I couldn't be sure that none
> of my [love letters/tax returns/medical records] were on that
> [Altair/PERQ/DEC 10/etc] so I broke it into little pieces so that nobody
> could ever read them"
>
> -tony
11:15 p.m.
I think I have mentioned this before, but at work I have been told that I
cannot have a disused tape _drive_ decause it has been used to back up
payroll data. I realise that this is just the over exagerrated paranoia of
ignorant accountants but it still shows that there is a latent problem out
there which, if there were a scandal in the press resulting from the
disclosure of confidential data, could result in our supply of usable
machines drying up.
Regards
Pete
30 May
30 May
4:59 a.m.
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7:58 a.m.
In MANY cases, the machine is being transferred/donated/given/scrapped/etc
BECAUSE the previous owner could no longer get it to work, including to be
able to run it enough to delete the old content. In such cases, implicit
in the transfer agreement (regardless of whether it is explicitly stated)
is the assumption that the recipient takes responsibility for completion
of the deletion on behalf of the previous owner.
Even in cases of a fully functional machine, ownership of any data that
was accidentally left behind remains with the prior owner. Just as if you
were to have found personal property that somebody had lost.
ANY transfer of a used computer assumes that the recipient will act in
good faith in the handling of residual content.
Recently the Berkeley Humane Society (whose computers I'm upgrading)
received a couple of machines with the hard drives, floppy drives, RAM,
and ROM removed! (all due to fear of "hackers" getting at confidential
data). Let's not encourage that paranoia.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
11:17 a.m.
Let's see.
I have enough old 4096s to make a decent R.A.I.D. And 225s, 412s, And a
lot of other old drives and diskettes.
But many of them were parts of systems on which I worked on source code of
a little bit of value. (enough so that there was actually a break-in
attempt at theft once! But the casing was so clumsy that all that they
got were some diskettes clearly labelled "V2.4 source code self-extracting
archive", that actually contained a trojan to wipe hard disk directories.)
It would be a hassle to reassemble a machine just to check the drives to
make sure that they were all erased properly. So, should I give the ones
that I no longer want to somebody who acknowledges intellectual property
rights and would HELP if I screwed up and made a mistake; or should I let
somebody have them who feels that whatever is on them is now theirs, and
would RUN a self-extracting archive?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
3:34 p.m.
On Sun, 30 May 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Let's see.
I have enough old 4096s to make a decent R.A.I.D. And 225s, 412s, And a
lot of other old drives and diskettes.
But many of them were parts of systems on which I worked on source code of
a little bit of value. (enough so that there was actually a break-in
attempt at theft once! But the casing was so clumsy that all that they
got were some diskettes clearly labelled "V2.4 source code self-extracting
archive", that actually contained a trojan to wipe hard disk directories.)
It would be a hassle to reassemble a machine just to check the drives to
make sure that they were all erased properly. So, should I give the ones
that I no longer want to somebody who acknowledges intellectual property
rights and would HELP if I screwed up and made a mistake; or should I let
somebody have them who feels that whatever is on them is now theirs, and
would RUN a self-extracting archive?
Your point is well taken as to whom might be suitable recipients, but in
reality, it shouldn't take but 20 minutes to cobble together a
motherboard with minimal memory, video, and an MFM HDC to do a low level
format on each of them. That would rather eliminate the agonizing. For
my part, I'd take the ST-412s and 225s before I'd look at the 4096s,
though.
- don
1 Jun
1 Jun
11:33 a.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon (was: confidential info on old harddrives.
It would be a
hassle to reassemble a machine just to check the drives to
make sure that they were all erased properly. So, should I give the ones
that I no longer want to somebody who acknowledges intellectual property
rights and would HELP if I screwed up and made a mistake; or should I let
somebody have them who feels that whatever is on them is now theirs, and
would RUN a self-extracting archive?
Your point is well taken as to whom might be suitable
recipients, but in
reality, it shouldn't take but 20 minutes to cobble together a
motherboard with minimal memory, video, and an MFM HDC to do a low level
format on each of them. That would rather eliminate the agonizing. For
my part, I'd take the ST-412s and 225s before I'd look at the 4096s,
though.
You're right that it SHOULDN'T take but 20 minutes. But it does. I go to
erase a 100M 3.5" ESDI drive, but where's an ESDI controller? There're
half a dozen composting somewhere here. Stick it back on the shelf, and
somebody wanting it will just have to wait until someday when I get around
to it. OR hand it off to somebody who I would TRUST to do the erasing for
me when they install the drive in their own machine. I DID cobble
together a temporary machine to erase the 4096s, and did half a dozen of
them. But that was a while back, and I stupidly didn't do a good job of
labelling them. And it looks like they've been rearranged, and more added
to the pile. So, I'd better do it again. I try to erase a 4096, but the
power supply on that machine just can't handle such a power hog. WOW! How
much power do those draw?!? So, I change power supply. Now there's enough
power, but 5 of the 4096s don't respond. Should I repair a drive that I'm
getting rid of? I don't have the level of expertise to do it right, so I
could try swapping circuit boards with one of the working ones, etc. Or
should I give the drive to somebody who DOES have the skill and/or a
better supply of parts to swap, who might be able to get it working? I
have to choose between destroying it (which I can't bear to do), spending
time and effort repairing something that I don't want, or giving it to
somebody trustworthy.
A friend wants a few drives. If I DO screw up and leave something behind,
I can count on him being part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Yes, it SHOULDN'T take but 20 minutes. But neither should washing the
dishes, cleaning the leaves out of the gutters, or maybe even cleaning up
part of my office. I'll get around to it. Sure, I will.
In the meantime, a friend just gave me a Northstar Horizon! It has a Z80A
board, a memory card with 64K of RAM, and disk controller. Now I need to
look through my diskettes to see if I have a Northstar system disk. My
hard-sectored floppies USED TO be separate, until a new assistant
rearranged them all into alphabetical order by who the disks came from!
(He didn't last long) And I need to bring up a terminal, or configure
something to function as a terminal.
Lots of things that I SHOULD get around to doing, but they can wait. And
people who want drives, whom I can't trust to HELP in the event of a
mistake on my part, are the lowest priority of all.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
12:09 p.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon (was: confidential info on old harddrives.
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 1999, Don Maslin
wrote:
> Your point is well taken as to whom might be suitable recipients, but in
> reality, it shouldn't take but 20 minutes to cobble together a
> motherboard with minimal memory, video, and an MFM HDC to do a low level
> format on each of them. That would rather eliminate the agonizing. For
________O/_______
O\
It would be a hassle to reassemble a machine just to
check the drives to
make sure that they were all erased properly. So, should I give the ones
that I no longer want to somebody who acknowledges intellectual property
rights and would HELP if I screwed up and made a mistake; or should I let
somebody have them who feels that whatever is on them is now theirs, and
would RUN a self-extracting archive?
You're right that it SHOULDN'T take but 20
minutes. But it does. I go to
erase a 100M 3.5" ESDI drive, but where's an ESDI controller? There're
half a dozen composting somewhere here. Stick it back on the shelf, and
somebody wanting it will just have to wait until someday when I get around
to it. OR hand it off to somebody who I would TRUST to do the erasing for
me when they install the drive in their own machine. I DID cobble
together a temporary machine to erase the 4096s, and did half a dozen of
them. But that was a while back, and I stupidly didn't do a good job of
labelling them. And it looks like they've been rearranged, and more added
to the pile. So, I'd better do it again. I try to erase a 4096, but the
power supply on that machine just can't handle such a power hog. WOW! How
much power do those draw?!? So, I change power supply. Now there's enough
4.0 amps of 12vdc on startup and 1.3 amps of 5vdc.
Yes, it SHOULDN'T take but 20 minutes. But
neither should washing the
dishes, cleaning the leaves out of the gutters, or maybe even cleaning up
part of my office. I'll get around to it. Sure, I will.
Touche!
In the meantime, a friend just gave me a Northstar
Horizon! It has a Z80A
board, a memory card with 64K of RAM, and disk controller. Now I need to
look through my diskettes to see if I have a Northstar system disk. My
Let me know if you need one.
hard-sectored floppies USED TO be separate, until a
new assistant
rearranged them all into alphabetical order by who the disks came from!
(He didn't last long) And I need to bring up a terminal, or configure
something to function as a terminal.
A PC with comms software is nice as you can use the logging feature to
save scribbling notes as you bring it up.
Lots of things that I SHOULD get around to doing, but
they can wait. And
people who want drives, whom I can't trust to HELP in the event of a
mistake on my part, are the lowest priority of all.
Can't argue with that.
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
^^^^^^\
You really are, aren't you ?:-}
- don
2 Jun
2 Jun
3:42 a.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
Any good sources for routine and/or user information about the Horizon?
f'rinstance: what's the pinout on those 15 pin D "parallel" connectors?
Any chance the signals are close enough to be cabled into a centronics
style port? I haven't applied power to it yet; anything exceptional to
watch out for?
I realize that N* Horizons have been discussed before, but at the time, I
didn't pay attention, because I didn't think that _I_ would end up with
one.
On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Don Maslin wrote:
That's a LOT! But well within the stated specs of the power supply. But
some of these 4096s were once owned by somebody who lived right next to
the coast, so there's some corrosion on some; perhaps some of them aren't
turning as easily as they ought to.
Thank you. You're very kind. I still should probably try to get around
to organizing what I have. It shouldn't take but about 20 minutes :-)
Except that it adds a few minor additional interfacing variables. If I
get NOTHING, would I assume that it's a problem with the N*, or could it
be configuring of HYPERTERMINAL? I think that the FIRST step, that of
getting a character or two through, would best be accomplished with the
simplest terminal available. I have a lunchbox machine; I should see if
it has a working serial port, and try something like PROCOMM.
If only 'twere still a joke. Some minor pain inducing health problems at
my end.
much power do
those [4096s] draw?!? So, I change power supply. Now
4.0 amps of 12vdc on startup
and 1.3 amps of 5vdc. look through
my diskettes to see if I have a Northstar system disk.
Let me know if you need
one. And I need to
bring up a terminal, or configure
something to function as a terminal.
A PC with comms software is nice as you can
use the logging feature to
save scribbling notes as you bring it up. Grumpy Ol'
Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
^^^^^^\
You really are, aren't you ?:-}
3:58 a.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
Any good sources for routine and/or user information about the Horizon?
Except that it adds a few minor additional interfacing variables. If I
get NOTHING, would I assume that it's a problem with the N*, or could it
be configuring of HYPERTERMINAL? I think that the FIRST step, that of
getting a character or two through, would best be accomplished with the
simplest terminal available. I have a lunchbox machine; I should see if
it has a working serial port, and try something like PROCOMM.
I have frequently used the PC as a terminal for the machines that require
one. So far, there have been no problems ... except for the minor details of
knowing how the serial port was hardwired configured (baud, data bits,
parity, stop bits), and if a nul modem cable is required. And of course,
that problem remains regardless of what is connected to the serial port.
And I
need to bring up a terminal, or configure
something to function as a terminal.
A PC with comms software is nice as you can
use the logging feature to
save scribbling notes as you bring it up.
12:02 p.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Marvin wrote:
I have frequently used the PC as a terminal for the
machines that require
one. So far, there have been no problems ... except for the minor details of
knowing how the serial port was hardwired configured (baud, data bits,
parity, stop bits), and if a nul modem cable is required. And of course,
that problem remains regardless of what is connected to the serial port.
But how do I lobotomize that silly "HYPER-TERMINAL" app in Windoze95 to
convince it that I do NOT want it to dial, wait for carriertone, etc.?
Those are the kind of "extra variables" that I was trying to avoid, since
they'll add another 20 minutes onto the task. Connecting one of the
Televideo 920s or DEC VT100s would let me move forward to the next part of
the task.
But figuring out how to do simple stuff with needlessly complicated
"tools" is just one more thing that we all need to get around to doing
occasionally. And I certainly will eventually need to figure out how to
do local terminal stuff with that Windoze95 app.
The advice here has been great. The parameters do, indeed, seem to be set
with some headers. The headers are, of course, unlabelled. But there's
the remains of a piece of tape near one of the connectors with a hand
scribble of "9600", so I'll start off by assuming that that's the
current
baud rate setting.
The first time that I did any serial interfacing (in the 70s) it was a
nightmare. Now, it's just one more trivial hassle along the way. But it
shouldn't take but 20 minutes.
Allison's comment that it won't start talking to the terminal until it
sees the disk means that there's not much point in continuing that part of
it until I find or get a system diskette for it.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
12:25 p.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
Allison's comment that it won't start talking to the terminal until it
sees the disk means that there's not much point in continuing that part of
it until I find or get a system diskette for it.
Hi
Unless you find someone else with the same setup, your in a
similar fix to what I was. Northstars were quite common so
you stand a good chance. I've just completed ( except for
a few minor bugs ) bring up from scratch CPM on an old
IMSAI system. It was a lot of work but it was fun.
I may be able to help if you decide to tackle it from
this point.
Dwight
12:53 p.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
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1:14 p.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote:
On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Marvin wrote:
> I have frequently used the PC as a terminal for the machines that require
> one. So far, there have been no problems ... except for the minor details of
But how do I lobotomize that silly
"HYPER-TERMINAL" app in Windoze95 to
convince it that I do NOT want it to dial, wait for carriertone, etc.?
I probably should have been a bit more specific; I don't use a Win95 machine
for that application but rather a DOS machine. A few years ago, the CTTY
command did the job rather nicely without the need for an external com
program. Currently, I use DOS 5 and Telix.
1:30 p.m.
New subject: HyperTerm (was Northstar Horizon)
If stuck with the crappy HypterTerm, give the connection a name, then in
the next panel (settings I think) once of the drop-down boxes has an
option called 'Direct to COMx.' Select the right one and you're sconnected
to that port. I prefer minicom or seyon on my Linux box for that sort of
thing, though.
Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
4:11 a.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
Any good sources for routine and/or user information
about the Horizon?
f'rinstance: what's the pinout on those 15 pin D "parallel" connectors?
Any chance the signals are close enough to be cabled into a centronics
Yes, they are parallel in and parallel out, and centronics printer is
doable with them.
style port? I haven't applied power to it yet;
anything exceptional to
watch out for?
Not really, make sure everything is setup right and you know if the
controller is SD or DD so you try to boot the right version of the OS.
I have two both SD and working. Once I have a useable DDcopy of the OS
I'll try to bring up the DD controllers I have.
Any terminal will do, serial and the baud rate and pinout to the
connectors is setup via headers on the backplane board.
NOTE: NS* boot is unilateral try to read the disk and try to execute that
so there is NO terminal dialog without a OS disk..
Allison
6 a.m.
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10:24 a.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
Having recomended a complex piece of test gear in
another message, here
I'll recomend something simple that I wouldn't like to be without - a
'Christmas tree' type RS232 tester. One of those little in-line adapters
with red/green LEDs on the major lines (TxD, RxD, RTS, CTS, DSR, DTR,
CD).
An absolute must for anyone working with RS232 serial signals!
It also makes sense to get one that also has jumpers.
IMHO
Dwight
11:54 a.m.
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1:14 p.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
IMHO - not!. Get a breakout box _as well_ - it's another useful tool. But
the advantage of the inline tester is that it doesn't have jumpers or
switches that you can set wrongly. It just plugs inline between a 25 pin
D plug and socket and monitors the signals. It's not going to cause one
of the signals to disappear.
Hi
My thinking is that if I have one box to look for in
my tool box, I won't loose it so fast. If I have
2 or three, I never know if I have them all and
miss one and your dead. Sounds mostly like personal
choice here. I almost always need to adjust switches
anyway, it hasn't been a problem.
Still you also need a gender changer as well. I once
saw an interesting 4 cornered one that a fellow made.
I have never seen a four connector commercial one,
though. Maybe someone makes one.
Dwight
1:34 p.m.
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5:41 p.m.
New subject: Northstar Horizon
On Wed, 2 Jun 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
If only 'twere still a joke. Some minor pain inducing health problems at
my end.
Poor jest on my part, I fear.
- don
Any good sources for routine and/or user information
about the Horizon?
f'rinstance: what's the pinout on those 15 pin D "parallel" connectors?
Any chance the signals are close enough to be cabled into a centronics
style port? I haven't applied power to it yet; anything exceptional to
watch out for?
This should be of some help.
N* Horizon Port Info
Serial Connector
Pin # Signal Name Direction
1 Chassis ground
2 Transmit Data ->
3 Receive Data <-
4 Request to Send ->
5 Clear to Send <-
6 Data Set Ready <-
7 Signal Ground
8 Carrier Detect <-
9 +12 volts (used in current loop)
10 -12 volts (used in current loop)
11 No connection
12 No connection
13 No connection
14 No connection
15 Transmit Clock <-
16 No connection
17 Receive clock <-
18 No connection
19 No connection
20 Data Terminal Ready ->
21 No connection
22 No connection
23 No connection
24 Transmit Clock ->
25 No connection
BAUD Rate Selection (BAUD Rate header at location 20)
Pin Rate
16 9600 x 16 baud
15 4800 x 16
14 2400 x 16
13 1200 x 16
12 600 x 16
11 300 x 16
10 110 x 16
9 150 x 16 or 75 x 16 baud
(selected by jumper J4 near 5D)
Parallel Connector Pin Assignments
Input
Pin Signal Name
1 Data Bit 7
2 Data Bit 5
3 Ground
4 Data Bit 2
5 Data Bit 0
6 Input Strobe
7 P-I-FLAG/
8 Spare
9 Data Bit 6
10 Data Bit 4
11 Data Bit 3
12 Data Bit 1
13 Ground
14 Ground
15 Ground
Output
1 Data Bit 7
2 Data Bit 5
3 Ground
4 Data Bit 2
5 Data Bit 0
6 P-O-FLAG
7 ACK/ (output device ready)
8 Spare
9 Data Bit 6
10 Data Bit 4
11 Data Bit 3
12 Data Bit 1
13 Ground
14 Ground
15 Ground
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
^^^^^^\
You really are, aren't you ?:-}
30 May
30 May
8:15 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it might contain is mine also.
The seller is/was responsable for the data on there, not the buyer. the seller
should've deleted what he thought was sensitive information. Unless the data is
copyrighted, I have every right to do as i please with it, which would most likely be
erasure.
I wasn't following this thread but here's my opinion.
A buy a house and everything it contains. There just happenes to be a treasure
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There's the first difference. In most cases you're _not_ buying a computer
and all the data on the hard drive.
If I buy a computer and the seller says 'Here's the master disks for all
the software I installed, and here are the licenses which I'll help you
to transfer to your name', then I think it's reasonable to assume that
you're getting that software as well. If he says 'BTW, I've left the
source code to a <whatever> that I was working on on the hard disk,
please take a look' then, again, I have no problem in reading said source
code.
THat is _not_ what we're talking about.
I wasn't talking about morals. I'd probably find the previous owner and give it
to
them, if they wanted it. otherwise I'd trash it. I have no use for old letters and
bank statements....
map in there leading me to a pot of gold. who
owns the gold? ME.
Suppose you buy a house+contents. Stuffed down the back of a chair are
some old personal letters, bank statements, etc. Do you really think you
have the moral right to publish them? I certainly don't.
I must admit that if I bought a computer and found some previous repaired
had left the schematics or a diagnostic module inside, I might be tempted
to keep them and make use of them. That's a far cry from personal data,
though.
There have been many books published from people's personal data... diaries, love
letters, ect.. especially items found on/around important dates and events.
Letters/ pictures/diaries from the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW, WWII, ect...
sketches and drawings for some wacky invention..... all of these things were , at
one time by someone, considered personal data. many times we learn from them. Do
you think these people would have wanted their data published by some person who just
happened to find it in an attic, in a house he just bought? probably not, but
historically they're priceless.
31 May
31 May
11:04 a.m.
At 04:15 PM 5/30/99 -0400, bluoval wrote:
If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever data it
might contain is mine
also.
Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the
following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold.
1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo
of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the
DEA. Do you:
a) Admit that it is yours because after all you
bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal
prison?
b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there
and help them track down the previous owner.
If you answered 'a' you get to keep the gold map.
--Chuck
11:05 a.m.
did the house come furnished, or is this my couch?
Chuck McManis wrote:
At 04:15 PM 5/30/99 -0400, bluoval wrote:
If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever
data it might contain is mine
also.
Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the
following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold.
1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo
of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the
DEA. Do you:
a) Admit that it is yours because after all you
bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal
prison?
b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there
and help them track down the previous owner.
If you answered 'a' you get to keep the gold map.
--Chuck 
11:15 a.m.
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote:
At 04:15 PM 5/30/99 -0400, bluoval wrote:
Hmmmm... with fond respect accorded to My Learned
Colleague... this tautology seems a bit specious.
So I would rather propose the following scenaria:
You find a "perfect-10" Magnesium GridCase at a local thriftshop
for $5.. you talk them down to $3 and it's yours. Upon firing it
up, you find:
A) the entire 'black book' of a notorious drug lord... databases,
names, addresses, spreadsheets, etc. Among the names are various
prominent politicians, celebrities, and others. It is clear they
have been.... misbehaving.
B) The complete record of a well known high-profile psychiatrist,
including some very 'private' info on, again, various Famous Folk.
A few of these Folk are in "positions of trust", and the info would
tend to utterly disqualify them from those positions.
C) The business and research records of a successful competitor of
yours... all of the data required to smash them like a slimy bug
and take over sole dominance in your market.
Ball's in your court. All you *really* wanted was the computer...
Cheers
John.
PS: A minor variation of "B" actually happened to me. As soon as I
realized what was on the machine, I phoned the Dr. involved,
offering the machine back to him. The situation was resolved when I
assured him that I would wipe the HD, which I did while we were on
the phone. [It was a Kaypro 10... user area '0' had been DEL'd, but
areas 1-16 had been forgotten about]
If I buy a computer w/ a hard drive, what ever
data it might contain is mine
also.
Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of reasoning, consider the
following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold.
1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo
of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the
DEA. Do you:
12:34 p.m.
I was just trying to point out that people are much more likely to want to
play "finders keepers" when it is a good thing and unwilling to play when
it is a bad thing. As in any morality debate (and this is a classic on BTW)
you either bend the morals to favor you (unfortunately all too common these
days) or you chose a moral rule and stick to it, good fortune and bad.
==Chuck
2:46 p.m.
Hmmmm... with fond respect accorded to My Learned
Colleague... this tautology seems a bit specious.
So I would rather propose the following scenaria:
You find a "perfect-10" Magnesium GridCase at a local thriftshop
for $5.. you talk them down to $3 and it's yours. Upon firing it
up, you find:
A) the entire 'black book' of a notorious drug lord... databases,
names, addresses, spreadsheets, etc. Among the names are various
prominent politicians, celebrities, and others. It is clear they
have been.... misbehaving.
One call to the DEA with date stamped reciept handy.
B) The complete record of a well known high-profile psychiatrist,
including some very 'private' info on, again, various Famous Folk.
A few of these Folk are in "positions of trust", and the info would
tend to utterly disqualify them from those positions.
delete. were i a reporter, I'm sure it would be a different outcome.
C) The business and research records of a successful competitor of
yours... all of the data required to smash them like a slimy bug
and take over sole dominance in your market.
/=^) go through it with a fine tooth comb, report any wrong doings to the proper
authorities...
-AND/OR-
combine his/her knowledge/experience with mine.... try to get better... ok, ok
smash him like a bug!
Ball's in your court. All you *really* wanted was the computer...
in situation C, i really got a bonus!
3:48 p.m.
On Mon, 31 May 1999, John Lawson wrote:
So I would rather propose the following scenaria:
You find a "perfect-10" Magnesium GridCase at a local thriftshop
for $5.. you talk them down to $3 and it's yours. Upon firing it
up, you find:
A) the entire 'black book' of a notorious drug lord... databases,
names, addresses, spreadsheets, etc. Among the names are various
prominent politicians, celebrities, and others. It is clear they
have been.... misbehaving.
Blackmail the drug lord and force him to give you 50% of his profits for
the next 20 years (or until he's gunned down). Move to Maui and live high
on the hog for quite some time.
B) The complete record of a well known high-profile
psychiatrist,
including some very 'private' info on, again, various Famous Folk.
A few of these Folk are in "positions of trust", and the info would
tend to utterly disqualify them from those positions.
Two words come to mind here: "National Enquirer".
C) The business and research records of a successful
competitor of
yours... all of the data required to smash them like a slimy bug
and take over sole dominance in your market.
I'm rich!
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
3:44 p.m.
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote:
Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of
reasoning, consider the
following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold.
1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo
of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the
DEA. Do you:
a) Admit that it is yours because after all you
bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal
prison?
b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there
and help them track down the previous owner.
c) You kill your friend (you hate cops anyway) and sell the coke, then
move to Maui and live high on the hog for a while.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
4:19 p.m.
Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 1999, Chuck McManis wrote:
The money you'd get for a kilo of coke won't last too long in Maui. pick a
country in South America to stretch the bills.
Ok, if you want to proceed down this line of
reasoning, consider the
following ethical test, if you pass you get to keep the gold.
1) You buy a house, you invite your friend over, he finds a kilo
of Cocaine stuffed into the couch and happens to work for the
DEA. Do you:
a) Admit that it is yours because after all you
bought the house and to 10 - 15 years in federal
prison?
b) Exclaim loudly that you didn't know it was there
and help them track down the previous owner.
c) You kill your friend (you hate cops anyway) and sell the coke, then
move to Maui and live high on the hog for a while.
26 May
26 May
8:10 p.m.
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Colan Mitchell wrote:
If this is a ? thats been dealt with before I joined
the list my
apologies.
I repeatedly come across personal and confidential information on
discarded computers. I sit and shake my head in shock. Lawyers seem to
be the worst. I have considered contacting the original owners and
educating them about practicing safe hex but, especially in the case of
lawyers and women, don't want to have them freak out and think I'm being
weird and calling the police. On the other hand I feel that I should do
something. In the end I just format the drives and forget about it.
Has anyone experienced contacting an original owner? What was the
response. This is something that I've not read about in the media as Y2K
and Hackers get all the press but I suspect this is a bigger potential
problem.
The best thing to do is to instruct the potential donor to erase all
sensitive personal data from the computer before its given to you, or to
give you specific directions as to what should be deleted after its given
to you. If you get a computer from a second hand source (i.e. not the
original owner) the best thing to do is just to format the drive and leave
it at that. What you do with regards with your temptation to read the
material is entirely up to you.
See Uncle Roger's Classic Computer Collector's Code of Conduct for
suggestions:
http://sinasohn.com/clascomp/ccccc.htm
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
9101
days inactive
9109
days old
40 comments
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participants (15)
-
a2k＠one.net -
allisonp＠world.std.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bluoval＠mindspring.com -
cdrmool＠interlog.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
donm＠cts.com -
elvey＠hal.com -
jpl15＠netcom.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
peter＠joules.enterprise-plc.com -
sipke＠wxs.nl -
zmerch＠30below.com