You can make the generalization that "brand-named" computers are harder to work with, i.e. have mfg-imposed limitations that interfere, say, with expandability, but you can't really generalize over a particular manufacturer here in the U.S. since a goodly share of their products are built offshore in compliance with spec's designed by a committee whose main concern is not to tread on another product line's market. Further, if you try to get information about the details of how motherboards work, you'll often find you're on your way up a blind alley, as motherboard makers seldom know any more than your as yet unborn grandson about the products they sell. They hire all the work out and publish a copy of a manual provided by the same folks who provide them with the PCB artwork, and they buy the BIOS bought on the "open" market doesn't even contain information regarding the motherboard with which it was included, because the market window is so small there's no time to incorporate that information into a CD. As fickle as the market is these days, that should surpise no one. This isn't the case with ALL motherboards you can buy, but it's surprisingly common among the "popular" brands. Much of the time you get barely enough to make them work. Unfortunately, the "name brands" e.g. COMPAQ, HP, DELL, and eMachines, though I guess the latter is pretty much history by now, all have simitaitons on what they tell you, and often, as has been cited, there are numerous things about which they tell you nothing. Spyware, if that's a concern, can be avoided by buying systems sans-OS and installing your own OS. That puts the control in your hands. Of course, that limits your choices. These big computer companies will probably all go the way of the COMPAQ's and others. They're unable to support their products adequately, so they need subcontroactors to handle that for them. The subcontractors, however, can do the job better if the "big brother" company gets out of the way, hence, they end up putting together systems using general market component products. Those are more easily maintained, updated, set-up, and paid-for. Support your local PC vendor. He's not afraid to discuss non-MS OS' and he's not afraid to tell the truth about the latest hardware fad. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sieler" <sieler(a)allegro.com> To: "McManis, Charles" <Charles.McManis(a)netapp.com>om>; "'Classic Computer Collectors'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:48 PM Subject: Re: Self Same computers (was HP & Compaq)