16 Jan
2013
16 Jan
'13
12:38 a.m.
I don't know or want to know what a bromide is even (sounds like something mum or dad
were taking for gas or constipation back in the dawn of time, circa 1972). All I know is
if you put warm coffee in a ceramic mug on top of a yellow computer, it erases the yellow,
for a few seconds. There's real creepy going on with this stuff, that's all I
know.
16 Jan
16 Jan
12:52 a.m.
On Jan 15, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
I don't know or want to know what a bromide is even (sounds like something mum or dad
were taking for gas or constipation back in the dawn of time, circa 1972). All I know is
if you put warm coffee in a ceramic mug on top of a yellow computer, it erases the yellow,
for a few seconds. There's real creepy going on with this stuff, that's all I
know.
Sure you do!
From a couple of Wikipedia articles:
A bromide is
a chemical compound containing a bromide ion or ligand. This is a bromine atom with an
ionic charge of ?1 in ionic compounds such as caesium bromide, or else a bromine atom with
an oxidation number of -1 incovalent compounds such as sulfur dibromide.
Bromine is a chemical element with the symbol Br, and atomic number of 35.
At high temperatures, organobromine compounds are easily converted to free bromine atoms,
a process which acts to terminate free radical chemical chain reactions. This makes such
compounds useful fire retardants and this is bromine's primary industrial use,
consuming more than half of world production of the element. The same property allows
volatile organobromine compounds, under the action of sunlight, to form free bromine atoms
in the atmosphere which are highly effective in ozone depletion.
TTFN - Guy
1:21 a.m.
On Jan 15, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Chris Tofu wrote:
I don't know or want to know what a bromide is
even (sounds like
something mum or dad were taking for gas or constipation back in the
dawn of time, circa 1972).
Close, but not quite in cigar territory. Bromo-Seltzer before 1975
contained sodium bromide, which is a mild sedative. When bromides were
banned, Bromo-Seltzer kept its name, but now is little more than fizzy
Tylenol.
Original BS was great for hangovers and headaches. Not so much today.
BTW, the term "bromide" for an over-used clich?, comes from the idea
that an overworked phrase has the power to put one to sleep, not unlike
the effects of sodium bromide.
--Chuck
3:22 a.m.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Close, but not quite in cigar territory.
Bromo-Seltzer before 1975
contained sodium bromide, which is a mild sedative. When bromides were
banned, Bromo-Seltzer kept its name, but now is little more than fizzy
Tylenol.
Ever see the clock tower at the southern entrance to Baltimore?
3:37 a.m.
On Jan 15, 2013, at 22:22, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I grew up in Baltimore and lived there for 25 years (and am
quite familiar with the Bromo-Seltzer tower), but I've never
seen the drink in any form. Old Bay and Berger cookies, alas,
are inescapable there (Berger cookies, for the uninitiated, are
inexplicably popular confections that are 50% cookie and
70% frosting, and are endemic to the Baltimore region).
- Dave
Close, but not quite in cigar territory.
Bromo-Seltzer before 1975
contained sodium bromide, which is a mild sedative. When bromides were
banned, Bromo-Seltzer kept its name, but now is little more than fizzy
Tylenol.
Ever see the clock tower at the southern entrance to Baltimore?
4:48 a.m.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, David Riley wrote:
I grew up in Baltimore and lived there for 25 years
(and am
quite familiar with the Bromo-Seltzer tower), but I've never
seen the drink in any form. Old Bay and Berger cookies, alas,
are inescapable there (Berger cookies, for the uninitiated, are
inexplicably popular confections that are 50% cookie and
70% frosting, and are endemic to the Baltimore region).
The last time that I was there was 40 years ago. At that time,
the harbor was full of LARGE rats (bigger than cats), not tourists.
US40 ran through the city, with cobblestones in some areas,
and a few remaining horse-drawn rag-picker carts. All along
US40, almost everything was condemned. There was a unique
demolition style - they would romove all of the interior doors
in a building, and nail those together to create a fence. For
block after block after block, the entire block would be a fence
of nailed together doors, punctuated at regular intervals by marble
doorsteps.
I've heard that the city changed soon after that.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
3:17 p.m.
On Jan 15, 2013, at 11:48 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
The last time that I was there was 40 years ago. At
that time,
the harbor was full of LARGE rats (bigger than cats), not tourists.
US40 ran through the city, with cobblestones in some areas,
and a few remaining horse-drawn rag-picker carts. All along
US40, almost everything was condemned. There was a unique
demolition style - they would romove all of the interior doors
in a building, and nail those together to create a fence. For
block after block after block, the entire block would be a fence
of nailed together doors, punctuated at regular intervals by marble
doorsteps.
The rats are still there and still that big, but generally
not in the Harbor area. 40 isn't all *that* different, and
you can get a tour of the various stages of urban blight and
renewal by taking it across the city. It's fascinating,
actually, especially because a lot of buildings and signs
dating back to the '30s are still there (though obviously in
a state of disrepair).
I've heard that the city changed soon after that.
Sort of. It never really got on its feet, because it never
got the hang of street-level commerce with upper-level
residential areas (or proper mass transit, for that matter).
Philadelphia (well, my part of Philadelphia) is a massive
improvement.
- Dave
5:07 a.m.
On 01/15/2013 07:37 PM, David Riley wrote:
I grew up in Baltimore and lived there for 25 years
(and am
quite familiar with the Bromo-Seltzer tower), but I've never
seen the drink in any form.
White crystals in a dark blue glass bottle, usually sold wrapped in
equally dark blue paper. Dump a capful into a glass and add water, and
the mixture results in a vigorous foaming liquid (largely a result of
the sodium bicarbonate and citric acid to make the bubbles). More
vigorous in action than Alka-Seltzer, which contains basically the same
bubble-making agents, but no bromide, all pressed into a slow-dissolving
tablet.
Seidlitz powder was similar, but used cream of tartar as the acid and
resulted in a laxative effect--basically baking powder with a medical
attribution.
I think all three arose in popularity because people seem to like the
effects of dissolved carbon dioxide in their drinks, most especially,
beer and sparkling wines--not to mention overpriced spring water. None
other than Joseph Priestly figured out a way to dissolve pressurized
carbon dioxide in water, thereby inventing seltzer water and giving
belated birth to an industry selling carbonated municipal tap water for
ridiculous prices,creating piles of plastic bottles littering the
nation's byways.
--Chuck
2:16 p.m.
beer and sparkling wines--not to mention overpriced
spring water. None
other than Joseph Priestly figured out a way to dissolve pressurized
carbon dioxide in water, thereby inventing seltzer water and giving
belated birth to an industry selling carbonated municipal tap water for
ridiculous prices,creating piles of plastic bottles littering the nation's
byways.
Hmmm...There is something I never thought of, and it is interesting to
do...I use to drink lots of carbonated water =D
4:23 a.m.
Terry, the retr0bright process (and Merlin) also
mentiones "The permanent
fix it is to coat it with clear satin acrylic lacquer to seal the surface
off from the air." Basically stating the process can eventuall reverse
itself it you don't and sealing it with an anti-UV laquer provides "No
oxygen, no oxidation." It's a very light acrylic, usually used for
preserving paintings/drawings/etc.
I've also seen some people mention using Armorall
spray or 303 Aerospace
Protectant Wipes
Yes, this was the current thinking. But given the yellowing seemed to
occur with such little light exposure, I wonder if this needs
revisiting?
The original damage from light causes degraded or free bromides
throughout the case from the fire retardants hence yellowing. Merlin
says in the Wiki that Retr0Bright only fixes these in the surface
layer and that this "cleaned" layer can re-yellow with exposure to UV.
Fair enough. However elsewhere in the wiki he also says these
bromides can migrate fairly freely through the polymer. Presumably
they don't need light to do this. I imagine migration is probably
accelerated in hot conditions.
My hypothesis as to why re-yellowing occurred in my machines with such
little exposure to light was that deeper pre-existing bromines from
the original damage (not touched by Retr0Bright) migrated to the top
"cleaned" layer and within a few years yellowed the surface again.
If this hypothesis is correct then a UV sealant will not protect the
case. Or any sealant maybe. Unless pre-formed bromides from previous
light damage can be stopped from migrating to the surface (and I don't
know how you would do that) Retr0Bright is only ever going to be
temporary.
Anyway. I have sent Merlin a PM through the VCF to see what his
thoughts are on it. It may only be proved by experimentation but the
hypotheses seems to fit with what happened. It also fits with what is
said about the yellowing process in the Retr0Bits Wiki.
Terry (Tez)
8:52 p.m.
If that's the case and your hypothesis is correct, that would mean the
computers that haven't experienced the reversal didn't have as deep of
bromides. Then it might also be fair to say that the ones that have deeper
penetration will continue to cycle them to the surface and that anual
re-retr0briting will eventually cause the process to stop?
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Terry Stewart <terry at webweavers.co.nz>wrote:
--
Marty
Terry, the
retr0bright process (and Merlin) also mentiones "The permanent
fix it is to coat it with clear satin acrylic lacquer to seal the surface
off from the air." Basically stating the process can eventuall reverse
itself it you don't and sealing it with an anti-UV laquer provides "No
oxygen, no oxidation." It's a very light acrylic, usually used for
preserving paintings/drawings/etc.
I've also seen some people mention using
Armorall spray or 303 Aerospace
Protectant Wipes
Yes, this was the current thinking. But given the yellowing seemed to
occur with such little light exposure, I wonder if this needs
revisiting?
The original damage from light causes degraded or free bromides
throughout the case from the fire retardants hence yellowing. Merlin
says in the Wiki that Retr0Bright only fixes these in the surface
layer and that this "cleaned" layer can re-yellow with exposure to UV.
Fair enough. However elsewhere in the wiki he also says these
bromides can migrate fairly freely through the polymer. Presumably
they don't need light to do this. I imagine migration is probably
accelerated in hot conditions.
My hypothesis as to why re-yellowing occurred in my machines with such
little exposure to light was that deeper pre-existing bromines from
the original damage (not touched by Retr0Bright) migrated to the top
"cleaned" layer and within a few years yellowed the surface again.
If this hypothesis is correct then a UV sealant will not protect the
case. Or any sealant maybe. Unless pre-formed bromides from previous
light damage can be stopped from migrating to the surface (and I don't
know how you would do that) Retr0Bright is only ever going to be
temporary.
Anyway. I have sent Merlin a PM through the VCF to see what his
thoughts are on it. It may only be proved by experimentation but the
hypotheses seems to fit with what happened. It also fits with what is
said about the yellowing process in the Retr0Bits Wiki.
Terry (Tez)
17 Jan
17 Jan
7:37 a.m.
If that's the case and your hypothesis is correct,
that would mean the
computers that haven't experienced the reversal didn't have as deep of
bromides. Then it might also be fair to say that the ones that have deeper
penetration will continue to cycle them to the surface and that anual
re-retr0briting will eventually cause the process to stop?
Yes, that would seem a logical conclusion.
Cheers
Terry
16 Jan
16 Jan
4:38 a.m.
> Ever see the clock tower at the southern entrance
to Baltimore?
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Cant say that I've ever been to Baltimore, at
least not when I was lucid
and conscious.
Many who see it experience a cognitive dissonance, wherein
they see it, but their brains refuse to register what they saw.
It is a large traditional clock tower. On the face of the clock,
instead of numerals, there are the letters B R O M O S E L T Z E R
"The time in Bawlmer is currently M after Z"
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
9:10 p.m.
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
Original BS was great for hangovers and headaches.? Not so much today.
--Chuck
C: I'll refrain from parsing that statement too carefully.
??? In my earlier days, when I drank, I never really had a hangover. Nothing to speak of
anyway, nothing that the previous day's cold pizza and pink lemonade wouldn't cure
anyway. My sister woke up w/a hangover one day, and I told her what I had for breakfast
(that). The hearing was enough to make her toss her cookies.
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