17 Apr
2005
17 Apr
'05
11:04 a.m.
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of reading CD-Rs! If anyone has one,
anyone at all, I'd love to hear from you! (External especailly, but I can
swap drives in an external housing if needed, I guess)
--
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG - FM19t
17 Apr
17 Apr
1:48 p.m.
Gary wrote:
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of reading
CD-Rs! If anyone has
Plextor has been making SCSI burners, and SCSI readers that can handle
CD-R and CD-RW, for many years. Shouldn't be hard to find.
Most SCSI CD-ROM drives can read CD-R, but early ones can't read CD-RW
due to the low contrast ratio of the media.
Eric
2:19 p.m.
You've had trouble? I've encountered several that have not the slightest problem
with CD-R's. Most notably, those from Toshiba and Sony.
Happy hunting.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 17-Apr-05 at 11:04 Gary Sparkes wrote:
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of reading
CD-Rs! If anyone has
one,
anyone at all, I'd love to hear from you! (External especailly, but I can
swap drives in an external housing if needed, I guess)
--
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG - FM19t
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal
ports?"
2:48 p.m.
On Sun, 2005-04-17 at 11:04 -0400, Gary Sparkes wrote:
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of reading
CD-Rs!
There's nothing special about the drive mechanism for SCSI CD reading
devices by the way (compared to say IDE) - I've never known one that
*won't* read CD-Rs, but just like IDE and laptop drives, it depends a
lot on the quality of the CD-R media used in the first place.
I've used Sony / Panasonic / Plextor drives before, as well as Apple-
branded ones - never had any trouble reading media that was burned
properly in the first place and is of decent quality. I've got Pioneer
and Toshiba SCSI CDROM drives in this machine - as well as an HP
Surestore burner - and don't recall ever having media troubles there
either.
cheers
Jules
4:33 p.m.
In message <1113763733.10734.66.camel at weka.localdomain>
Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
There's nothing special about the drive mechanism
for SCSI CD reading
devices by the way (compared to say IDE) - I've never known one that
*won't* read CD-Rs, but just like IDE and laptop drives, it depends a
lot on the quality of the CD-R media used in the first place.
I've had the same experience. IME Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim DatalifePlus CDRs
are about the best. I've never had a Verbatim CDR misread in any CD-ROM.
Watch out though - the "Datalife" CDRs are cheap crap - rebranded CMC
Magnetics floor-scrapings. The DatalifePlus discs are made by Mitsubishi
Chemical (or one of their subcontractors) and tend to be far more reliable.
I've just ordered 100 of them from www.svp.co.uk. "I liked them so much, I
bought a crate full"
Of course, now I've said that, someone's probably going to say something
along the lines of "I bought 2,000 and they were ALL faulty"...
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... Documentation is for people who can't read.
6:22 p.m.
Phil wrote:
Watch out though - the "Datalife" CDRs are
cheap crap - rebranded CMC
Magnetics floor-scrapings.
Floor scrapings are the only kind CMC Magnetics makes. TDK CD-Rs used
to be Taiyo-Yuden, which is the best. I routinely bought them at Costco.
One day I had a spindle of which nearly 50% of the discs were bad, and
checking the ATIP data, they were CMC Magnetics. I've never bought
TDK CD-R media since. I can only guess that some bean counter at TDK
refused to pay for T-Y when CMCM is so much cheaper. Possibly TDK has
switched to something else by now, but I'll never find out first-hand.
Eric
7:35 p.m.
In message <33412.64.169.63.74.1113776553.squirrel at 64.169.63.74>
"Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote:
Floor scrapings are the only kind CMC Magnetics makes.
Amen to that. I had one a CMCMag disc delaminate inside a rather expensive CD
recorder. Thankfully they didn't
I did call the company I bought the discs from to request a refund - they
refused on the grounds that it was more than 7 days since I bought the discs.
Mentioning the Sale of Goods Act only resulted in the sales rep hanging up on
me. I gave up and used the discs as coasters - it's about all they're good
for.
TDK CD-Rs used
to be Taiyo-Yuden, which is the best.
I'm viciously protective of my "secret stash" of T-Y CDRs. I've got half
a
dozen left and I still haven't found anywhere that sells them in spindle
packs (or jewel cased for that matter). SVP have got packs of 100
shrink-wrapped for a bit over ?20, but past experience with shrinkwrapped CDs
suggests they're going to be scratched to hell by the time I get them open.
My first pack of CDRs (after the CMCs) was a pack of TDK Reflex discs (ATIP
checked as "TDK Corp"). They were damn near perfect - even now, four years
on, there aren't any data errors on them.
Then I bought a pack of ten and ended up with CMCs...
I can only guess that some bean counter at TDK
refused to pay for T-Y when CMCM is so much cheaper. Possibly TDK has
switched to something else by now, but I'll never find out first-hand.
Same here. They still make their own DVD-RWs (Media ID on mine was
"TDKsakuM3") but they outsource CDR manufacture to CMC. I've been buying
the
Verbatim DLPs for ages and never had a bad burn. They also seem to take
Pressit labels quite well (certainly better than the TDKs).
No, I don't use Pressit labels on my backup CDs - I've got a water-based CD
marker to label those.
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
Nothing can go wroff001010 bus error: core dumped
9:11 p.m.
Philip Pemberton wrote:
I'm viciously protective of my "secret
stash" of T-Y CDRs. I've got half a
dozen left and I still haven't found anywhere that sells them in spindle
packs (or jewel cased for that matter). SVP have got packs of 100
shrink-wrapped for a bit over ?20, but past experience with shrinkwrapped CDs
suggests they're going to be scratched to hell by the time I get them open.
Forget scratching ... shirk wrap still SHRINKS over time... warped
disks will be the problem.
Ben alias woodelf
9:55 p.m.
Philip Pemberton wrote:
I'm viciously protective of my "secret
stash" of T-Y CDRs. I've got half a
dozen left and I still haven't found anywhere that sells them in spindle
packs (or jewel cased for that matter). SVP have got packs of 100
shrink-wrapped for a bit over ?20, but past experience with shrinkwrapped CDs
suggests they're going to be scratched to hell by the time I get them open.
Have you tried meritline.com? I order my T-Y media from them all the time and
haven't had a problem:
http://www.meritline.com/taiyo-yuden-cdr-cd-r-blank-media-disc-discs.html
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
8:48 p.m.
I know this isn't CD related, and is probably off-topic, but FWIW..
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia
Is a useful URL if your trying to compare burnable DVD media, and want
to see who actually makes the media your considering buying..
Too bad they don't have something similar for CD-R's....
David
18 Apr
18 Apr
1:55 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: SCSI CD drive capable of reading CD-R
Phil wrote:
So just how reilable/accurate IS the ATIP data?
This guy thinks it's rubbish.
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-33
DaveB, NZ
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date: 16/04/2005
Watch out though - the "Datalife" CDRs
are cheap crap - rebranded
CMC
Magnetics floor-scrapings.
Floor scrapings are the only kind CMC Magnetics makes. TDK CD-Rs
used
to be Taiyo-Yuden, which is the best. I routinely bought them at
Costco.
One day I had a spindle of which nearly 50% of the discs were bad,
and
checking the ATIP data, they were CMC Magnetics. I've never bought
TDK CD-R media since. I can only guess that some bean counter at
TDK
refused to pay for T-Y when CMCM is so much cheaper. Possibly TDK
has
switched to something else by now, but I'll never find out
first-hand.
Eric
3:18 p.m.
New subject: CD-R ATIP data veracity (was Re: SCSI CD drive capable of reading CD-R)
DaveB wrote:
So just how reilable/accurate IS the ATIP data?
This guy thinks it's rubbish.
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-33
I don't actually believe that there's a market for used stampers. But
if there was, there's no way that the repuatable manufacturers like
Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui would sell them to someone else that would use
them to dilute their brand.
Besides which, they wouldn't sell them until they no longer met the
manufacturer's standards (which may well be higher than the Orange
Book requirements). So if they were going to sell them, who would
buy them? Companies like CMC Magnetics. Yet CMC Magnetics discs
(at least usually) have the correct ATIP information.
Also, if another manufacturer started making discs with ATIP data
claiming to be from Taiyo-Yuden or Mitsui, they would get sued for
trademark infringement, unfair competition, and fraud. I suppose
that might not stop manufacturers in mainland China, though.
Anyhow, if the ATIP says that it's CMC Magnetics, it's safe to assume
that the disc is junk. If anyone bought used stampers from them, the
resulting media couldn't be any better than the CMC Magnetics junk.
Eric
5:58 p.m.
New subject: CD-R ATIP data veracity (was Re: SCSI CD drive capable of reading CD-R)
In message <62159.207.145.53.202.1113851916.squirrel at 207.145.53.202>
"Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote:
Also, if another manufacturer started making discs
with ATIP data
claiming to be from Taiyo-Yuden or Mitsui, they would get sued for
trademark infringement, unfair competition, and fraud. I suppose
that might not stop manufacturers in mainland China, though.
The same thing doesn't appear to apply to DVD-R and DVD+R. There have been
reports of fake Taiyo Yuden DVD+/-R blanks floating around. Seems when
recordable DVD blanks are manufactured, the media ID block is blank. IIRC
it's written just after the discs are manufactured. Faking a T-Y Media ID
signature is no difficult task, unlike ATIP faking which would require a
stamper with a fake ATIP "pregroove wobble".
Put simply, if someone asks for a stamper with a Taiyo Yuden, Mitsubishi
Chemical or similar ATIP, the stamper manufacturer is going to want proof
that the company in question (T-Y, Mitz, ...) ordered that stamper.
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... S met ing's hap ening t my k ybo rd . .
17 Apr
17 Apr
5:35 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
There's nothing special about the drive mechanism
for SCSI CD
reading devices by the way (compared to say IDE) - I've never
known one that *won't* read CD-Rs, but just like IDE and
laptop drives, it depends a lot on the quality of the CD-R
media used in the first place.
My SCSI RRD40 has had problems reading some CD-Rs and (IIRC)
absolutely will not read CD-RWs at all. I'm not that surprised
as I expect that RRD40s were long out of production well before
CD-Rs became popular.
I've used to have some issues with an RRD42 and CD-RWs too.
So there are certainly drives that are marginal with CD-Rs.
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini at iee.org
6:24 p.m.
Antonio wrote:
I've used to have some issues with an RRD42 and
CD-RWs too.
So there are certainly drives that are marginal with CD-Rs.
Only fairly early drives have problems with CD-Rs. Problems
with CD-RW lasted much longer, because they're much further from
the CD-ROM spec (very low contrast ratio). To this day, some
CD-ROM drives have trouble with CD-RW, though not nearly as many
as used to.
Eric
5:55 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Jules Richardson wrote:
There's nothing special about the drive mechanism
for SCSI CD reading
devices by the way (compared to say IDE) - I've never known one that
*won't* read CD-Rs, but just like IDE and laptop drives, it depends a
lot on the quality of the CD-R media used in the first place.
I have two Pioneer SCSI CD changers: a DRM-600 and a DRM-604. The
DRM-600 is the older of the two, but will read CD-R media just fine. The
newer DRM-604 won't read ANY of my CD-Rs, no matter what media was used.
Go figure.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
The Dixie Lion Jazz Band http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/dixie.html
The B9 Robot Builders Club B9-0014 http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/B9/
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
22 Apr
22 Apr
2:27 p.m.
New subject: Old neon lamps and sockets
Does anyone know of a source for NE-3 neon lamps? They're T2 telephone
slide based #2, also known as 8AA. I'm also looking for T2 slide based
sockets. This is for a panel replication project.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
17 Apr
17 Apr
6:26 p.m.
On 4/17/05, Gary Sparkes <mokuba at gmail.com> wrote:
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of reading
CD-Rs! If anyone has one,
anyone at all, I'd love to hear from you! (External especailly, but I can
swap drives in an external housing if needed, I guess)
--
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG - FM19t
What machine are you talking about ?, Do you mean a 512k block size
ie. Dec, Sun, mac etc. I've found it a bit hit and miss as far as
reading cd-rs
Dan
7:01 p.m.
Dan wrote:
What machine are you talking about ?, Do you mean a
512k block size
ie. Dec, Sun, mac etc.
That's 512 *byte* block size, not K. As opposed to the normal 2048 byte
(2K) block size.
Macs do not need 512 byte block CD-ROM drives. Only older non-PC
workstations and servers normally need that.
A lot of Toshiba drives had a jump to configure the drive for 512 byte
blocks.
Eric
18 Apr
18 Apr
8:50 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
"Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote:
Dan wrote:
My understanding is that newer Power Macs that run Open Firmware need
the 512 byte block. My experience has been that the drives I've pulled
What machine are you talking about ?, Do you mean
a 512k block size
ie. Dec, Sun, mac etc.
That's 512 *byte* block size, not K. As opposed to the normal 2048
byte(2K) block size.
Macs do not need 512 byte block CD-ROM drives. Only older non-PC
workstations and servers normally need that.
from PCI Power Macs will boot in Sun hardware.
Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong.
17 Apr
17 Apr
7:44 p.m.
Gary Sparkes wrote:
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of reading
CD-Rs! If anyone has one,
anyone at all, I'd love to hear from you! (External especailly, but I can
swap drives in an external housing if needed, I guess)
The *only* SCSI drive I've ever had that wouldn't read CD-Rs was an
external HP. Don't remember the model, but it was a 2x-4x reader. Even
my old Macintosh external, may it RIP, would read CD-Rs.
Nobody else has mentioned it, but most older (4x or slower) readers
will hurl on a multisession or an "open" CD-R. Burn your CDs
single-session, and be sure to close them. If your hardware will do DAO
burns, that's always the best bet.
Doc
19 Apr
19 Apr
4:32 p.m.
It was a multislice solaris cd, could that cause problems? Burnt from a
single image.... I threw a burnt disc in it today though, from the mac, and
it read fine as far as I can tell (sol10 x86, opened a license doc)... It's
a rather ancient sun external, got it with some IPX's
On 4/17/05 7:44 PM, "Doc Shipley" <doc at mdrconsult.com> wrote:
Gary Sparkes wrote:
--
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG - FM19t
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of
reading CD-Rs! If anyone has one,
anyone at all, I'd love to hear from you! (External especailly, but I can
swap drives in an external housing if needed, I guess)
The *only* SCSI drive I've ever had that wouldn't read CD-Rs was an
external HP. Don't remember the model, but it was a 2x-4x reader. Even
my old Macintosh external, may it RIP, would read CD-Rs.
Nobody else has mentioned it, but most older (4x or slower) readers
will hurl on a multisession or an "open" CD-R. Burn your CDs
single-session, and be sure to close them. If your hardware will do DAO
burns, that's always the best bet.
Doc 
4:43 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Sparkes" <mokuba at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: SCSI CD drive capable of reading CD-R
It was a multislice solaris cd, could that cause
problems? Burnt from a
single image.... I threw a burnt disc in it today though, from the mac,
and
it read fine as far as I can tell (sol10 x86, opened a
license doc)...
It's
a rather ancient sun external, got it with some
IPX's
Plextor SCSI cdrom drives tend to work in Mac, SGI, and other machines and
can also read CDR's fine.
5:42 p.m.
I had an idea earlier today that our hobby of Classiccmp'ing
may actually be creating bad CD's, That is: older drives use brighter
read lasers since more elegant sensing solutions might not have
been invented at the time.
Old bright lasers + new delicate media = faster destruction.
Just a theory. Not proven.
John A.
17 Apr
17 Apr
10:32 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:04:09 -0400
Gary Sparkes <mokuba at gmail.com> wrote:
I'm desperate for a scsi drive capable of reading
CD-Rs! If anyone has
one, anyone at all, I'd love to hear from you! (External especailly,
but I can swap drives in an external housing if needed, I guess)
--
I've not had any problem reading CD-Rs in SCSI CDROM drives that I've
salvaged from old Power Macintoshes. I've installed a number of them in
Sparc Ultra 1 boxes and had no problem installing NetBSD and Solaris off
the drives, which I had burned to CD-R media for said purpose.
If you're really _desperate_ for a drive like that, I have a pile of
them and will sell you a couple for $2 each plus shipping. I'm sure if
you're not geographically close to me (midwest United States) you will
have no trouble at all getting your own used Apple CDROM drive.
Anything from the early-PCI Mac era will work, i.e. a drive from a
7200/7300/7500 Power Mac.
-Scott
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG - FM19t
7104
days inactive
7109
days old
24 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
allain＠panix.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
chenmel＠earthlink.net -
dholland＠woh.rr.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
mokuba＠gmail.com -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
tractorb＠ihug.co.nz -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
williams.dan＠gmail.com