21 Jun
2001
21 Jun
'01
6:25 p.m.
As mentioned previously, I've registered DECDOCS.ORG, and have started
the tedious task of scanning in all the documentation I have.
I'm about halfway through scanning the '69 DEC Logic Handbook
(positive logic edition), by laying the book as flat as possible
(not using the scanner top cover), and scanning 2 pages at once.
Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to
avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Any suggestions on
what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? I've got
quite a pile of these handbooks and will be doing the same (scanning)
to them, but this is definitely the oldest / most fragile handbook
in the collection.
Thanks for any tips.
Bill
--
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)mrbill.net
Austin, TX
21 Jun
21 Jun
11:02 p.m.
I don't know the answer, but I bet your local librarian does. Librarians
spend a lot of time mending books.
--Mike
Michael Nadeau
Editorial Services
603-893-2379
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bradford" <mrbill(a)mrbill.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 2:25 AM
Subject: preserving / ressurecting old docs?
As mentioned previously, I've registered
DECDOCS.ORG, and have started
the tedious task of scanning in all the documentation I have.
I'm about halfway through scanning the '69 DEC Logic Handbook
(positive logic edition), by laying the book as flat as possible
(not using the scanner top cover), and scanning 2 pages at once.
Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to
avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Any suggestions on
what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? I've got
quite a pile of these handbooks and will be doing the same (scanning)
to them, but this is definitely the oldest / most fragile handbook
in the collection.
Thanks for any tips.
Bill
--
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)mrbill.net
Austin, TX
22 Jun
22 Jun
5:18 a.m.
Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and
I'd like to
avoid destroying the book while archiving it. Any suggestions on
what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc? I've got
quite a pile of these handbooks and will be doing the same (scanning)
to them, but this is definitely the oldest / most fragile handbook
in the collection.
The method (hot-glue) that is used for binding paperback books and
phonebooks is called "Perfect binding".
I am currently trying to sell an Armarco perfect binding machine. It is
fairly easy to use, but requires a fair amount of practice before you get
good results. I want at least $100 (I paid $800 used 10 years ago, and
never actively used it). You would have to make all arrangements for
shipping; I don't even want to THINK about shipping it. It is about 4'
long by a foot deep, by a foot and a half high.
Alternatively, the largest of your local libraries could tell you which
local printing and binding shop they use for book repairs.
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
1:31 a.m.
--- Bill Bradford <mrbill(a)mrbill.net> wrote:
As mentioned previously, I've registered
DECDOCS.ORG, and have started
the tedious task of scanning in all the documentation I have.
I'm about halfway through scanning the '69 DEC Logic Handbook
(positive logic edition), by laying the book as flat as possible
(not using the scanner top cover), and scanning 2 pages at once.
Some of the pages are starting to come unglued, and I'd like to
avoid destroying the book while archiving it.
Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling the book carefully
for the best quality copies/scans. The idea here is that the
information in its copied format is more valuable than the slivers
of dead trees that it currently resides on. Yes, books are a
valuable resource, but these are not unique books - they are
reference works that were published by the thousands. Once in
digital form, they are trivial to disseminate in a way that
is impossible for the originals.
If you have handbooks that are disintegrating anyway, the thing to
do is probably take them apart intentionally and carefully, then
probably just put the leaves in a baggie for safe-keeping. I would
be willing to take any and all handbooks in that format.
Any suggestions on what to use to re-glue the pages,
or rebinding, etc?
I have no idea on that one. As someone else here mentioned, perhaps
a librarian might know. I would expect the answer, however, for a
30-year-old paperback to be unsatisfactory.
-ethan
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2:47 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling the
book carefully
for the best quality copies/scans. The idea here is that the
information in its copied format is more valuable than the slivers
of dead trees that it currently resides on. Yes, books are a
valuable resource, but these are not unique books - they are
reference works that were published by the thousands. Once in
digital form, they are trivial to disseminate in a way that
is impossible for the originals.
I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in
some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever
to be lost then you're SOL.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
4:42 a.m.
Talk to Doug
Jones. He recommends dismantling the book carefully
for the best quality copies/scans. The idea here is that the
information in its copied format is more valuable than the slivers
of dead trees that it currently resides on. Yes, books are a
valuable resource, but these are not unique books - they are
reference works that were published by the thousands. Once in
digital form, they are trivial to disseminate in a way that
is impossible for the originals.
I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in
some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever
to be lost then you're SOL.
4:36 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote:
In the case of the older DEC handbooks it's only a
matter of time before
the completely disentigrate anyway. They were published on the worst
quality paper imaginable.
Ack.
Your best bet is to take the books and have the
binding cut off
professionally. Then scan in the pages one at a time (not two). I
personally believe Adobe Acrobat is the best way of doing this.
Although I realize there are people here that are against Adobe
Acrobat.
Acrobat is nice but I think it's bloated. It won't be so much an issue as
computers continue to get bigger/better/faster (mine is a P3 700Mhz, 128MB
RAM, and handles them fine) but bandwidth is still a problem.
BTW, I'm the type person that considers damaging a
book a Capital
Offense! When I read a book I don't even crease the spine. Yet, in
cases like this I still think this is the right thing to do.
Well, we don't need everyone doing this. One or two handbooks being
destroyed to make a digital archive is fine. The best thing to do is
scour the net for prior work before one proceeds to shred a book for
scanning.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
8:59 a.m.
Acrobat is nice but I think it's bloated. It
won't be so much an issue as
computers continue to get bigger/better/faster (mine is a P3 700Mhz, 128MB
RAM, and handles them fine) but bandwidth is still a problem.
Unfortunatly you're correct about the problems with Adobe Acrobat. Though
this partially depends on the software used to create the files. It's a
shame that OCR software isn't more flexable, and cheaper. Acrobat is still
far superior to the Type 4 TIFF's (I think this is the right format) that a
lot of the PDP-8 doc's have been done in.
BTW, that Adobe Acrobat Document I mentioned in the previous post is only
3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi.
Well, we don't need everyone doing this. One or
two handbooks being
destroyed to make a digital archive is fine. The best thing to do is
scour the net for prior work before one proceeds to shred a book for
scanning.
I couldn't agree more, however, the person doing it should ensure that
they're doing a good enough quality that no one else will need to do it
again. Plus doing it in a format such as Adobe Acrobat which can be read with
Open Source tools is also a good thing.
Zane
9:46 a.m.
BTW, that Adobe Acrobat Document I mentioned in the
previous post is only
3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi.
Zane,
what settings and file formats are you using when you do the
PDF's like that? I've got Acrobat 4 and am still having a heck of a
time getting the file size down. I can get the TIFF I import into
Acrobat down to a good size by using LZW compression when I save it,
but it makes no difference to the end PDF file.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
10:18 a.m.
BTW, that Adobe
Acrobat Document I mentioned in the previous post is only
3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi.
what settings and file formats are you using when you do the
PDF's like that? I've got Acrobat 4 and am still having a heck of a
time getting the file size down. I can get the TIFF I import into
Acrobat down to a good size by using LZW compression when I save it,
but it makes no difference to the end PDF file.
10:22 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote:
Totally agreed. Minimum resolution should be 300DPI as you suggest (it's
where I get my best results when you are trying to optimize quality/size).
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
Unfortunatly you're correct about the problems
with Adobe Acrobat. Though
this partially depends on the software used to create the files. It's a
shame that OCR software isn't more flexable, and cheaper. Acrobat is still
far superior to the Type 4 TIFF's (I think this is the right format) that a
lot of the PDP-8 doc's have been done in.
BTW, that Adobe Acrobat Document I mentioned in the previous post is only
3745Kb and that's for a 106 page document scanned at 300dpi.
I've come to accept that the advantages of Adobe outweigh the negatives.
The most practical advantages are that the interface is nice (being able
to page forward and back, and jump between pages, etc.) and you can print
the document and create your own copy. One can't do this so nicely with
TIFFs and a web browser.
3.5MB for a 106 page document is still pretty bloated though.
Well, we
don't need everyone doing this. One or two handbooks being
destroyed to make a digital archive is fine. The best thing to do is
scour the net for prior work before one proceeds to shred a book for
scanning.
I couldn't agree more, however, the person doing it should ensure that
they're doing a good enough quality that no one else will need to do
it again. Plus doing it in a format such as Adobe Acrobat which can
be read with Open Source tools is also a good thing. 
25 Jun
25 Jun
5:18 a.m.
Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote:
<snip>
3.5MB for a 106 page document is still pretty bloated though.
<snip>
Could be worse - the Lisa manual scans at Applefritter are much, much
worse... The 418-page Owner's manual.pdf weighs in at over 67meg...
Mike
http://tarnover.dyndns.org/
Tarnover - The Apple II Repository
22 Jun
22 Jun
10:07 a.m.
Acrobat is nice but I think it's bloated. It
won't be so much an issue as
computers continue to get bigger/better/faster (mine is a P3 700Mhz, 128MB
RAM, and handles them fine) but bandwidth is still a problem.
Considering what people are saving to the Acrobat format,
both text and images, it does pretty well. There are certainly worse
file formats as far as bloat....the BMP format for one. A single
image saved in BMP can easily take up the space of a good sized PDF.
PDF's are also quite cross-platform at this stage.
Plus, if MS can send an NT service pack of 90meg over the
wire with who knows how many people downloading it at once, a 4-5meg
PDF of a truly useful manual being downloaded by a small number of
people isn't going to make much difference bandwidth wise.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
10:31 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
Plus, if MS can send an NT service pack of 90meg over
the wire
with who knows how many people downloading it at once, a 4-5meg PDF of
a truly useful manual being downloaded by a small number of people
isn't going to make much difference bandwidth wise.
I wasn't referring to a drain on bandwidth on the whole, but for folks who
are trying to download these scanned documents to use. I don't care, I
have a cable modem. But for someone with a 56K modem, a 3.5MB PDF file is
hell :(
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
12:02 p.m.
I wasn't referring to a drain on bandwidth on the
whole, but for folks who
are trying to download these scanned documents to use. I don't care, I
have a cable modem. But for someone with a 56K modem, a 3.5MB PDF file is
hell :(
I don't mind the 3.5MB files...it's the 10meg and over that I
dislike. I still run a 56k for this connection at home.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
5:26 a.m.
On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 09:42:09AM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote:
In the case of the older DEC handbooks it's only a
matter of time before
the completely disentigrate anyway. They were published on the worst
quality paper imaginable.
I'm trying to do this as non-destructively as possible.
Your best bet is to take the books and have the
binding cut off
professionally. Then scan in the pages one at a time (not two). I
personally believe Adobe Acrobat is the best way of doing this. Although I
realize there are people here that are against Adobe Acrobat.
I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs, then I will convert to
other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with
HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts.
Bill
--
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)mrbill.net
Austin, TX
8:43 a.m.
I'm scanning them in as 100dpi grayscale GIFs,
then I will convert to
other format(s) and eventually to PDF. Scanning directly to PDF with
HP's software produces horrible output with compression artifacts.
Please don't scan them at such a low resolution! 300dpi works pretty good.
I'd really recommend going out and buying Adobe Acrobat itself. I bought V5
and am very happy with it.
For an example of what can be done with Adobe Acrobat and an old 300dpi
scanner you might want to check the following:
ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/hardware/WQESD.pdf
Rememeber at 100dpi you're going to be scanning at such a low resolution
that any prints will be basically worthless.
Zane
9:21 a.m.
On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 01:43:14PM -0700, healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote:
Please don't scan them at such a low resolution!
300dpi works pretty good.
I'd really recommend going out and buying Adobe Acrobat itself. I bought V5
and am very happy with it.
100dpi seems to be the best resolution that I've seen for a tradeoff between
readability and file size.
For an example of what can be done with Adobe Acrobat
and an old 300dpi
scanner you might want to check the following:
ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/hardware/WQESD.pdf
Looking now.
Rememeber at 100dpi you're going to be scanning at
such a low resolution
that any prints will be basically worthless.
This is text and line drawings... for finer stuff, I'll use a higher resolution,
of course.
Bill
--
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)mrbill.net
Austin, TX
10:34 a.m.
--- Bill Bradford <mrbill(a)mrbill.net> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 01:43:14PM -0700,
healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote:
OK... now print them. How does _that_ look? I have to recommend scanning
at 300 dpi and who cares about file size. CD-ROMs are cheap.
Please don't scan them at such a low
resolution! 300dpi works pretty good.
I'd really recommend going out and buying
Adobe Acrobat itself. I bought
V5
and am very happy with it.
100dpi seems to be the best resolution that I've seen for a tradeoff between
readability and file size. This is text and line drawings... for finer stuff,
I'll use a higher
resolution,
of course.
Wouldn't it be better to have it be a) consistent, and b) legible when
re-printed?
-ethan
=====
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4:50 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote:
I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the
original. Not only is it in
some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever
to be lost then you're SOL.
I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think your
point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's digital... just
make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say it's a lot more
dangerous to only have the original.
-brian.
4:43 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote:
Brian, this has been discussed at great length before (perhaps you weren't
around then). Hard copies of documents have survived thousands of years.
Digital magnetic media has only been around for at most 25-30 years. We
don't know what's going to happen to that data 50, 100, 500 years from
now.
If we're going to be preservationists or archivists, it would be wise to
be as conservative as possible, and assume the worst.
Digital copies, everywhere, sure. But I still prefer to hang on to the
hardcopies.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
I completely
recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in
some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever
to be lost then you're SOL.
I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think
your point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's
digital... just make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say
it's a lot more dangerous to only have the original. 
6:55 a.m.
At 09:43 AM 6/22/01 -0700, Sellam and Brian Chase wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote:
And others have pointed out that DEC handbooks are on truly lousy paper.
Therefore, the _solution_ is to scan them at best possible resolution. Fix
any scanning artifacts, the _print them_ on acid free paper and bind
_that_. Problem solved, the book still exists (now in a good form) and
there is a digital copy as well.
--Chuck
I'm against the idea of destroying the
original as well, but I think
your point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's
digital... just make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say
it's a lot more dangerous to only have the original.
Brian, this has been discussed at great length before (perhaps you weren't
around then). Hard copies of documents have survived thousands of years.
Digital magnetic media has only been around for at most 25-30 years. We
don't know what's going to happen to that data 50, 100, 500 years from
now. 
6:59 a.m.
New subject: OS/2 Extended Services Administrator's Kit
This is basically a package of documentation required for planning and
configuing a multiple-workstation or host connected environment. It appears
to be complete with about 11 manuals. Free for the cost of shipping (about
10 or 15 pounds?)
9:03 a.m.
And others have pointed out that DEC handbooks are on
truly lousy paper.
Therefore, the _solution_ is to scan them at best possible resolution. Fix
any scanning artifacts, the _print them_ on acid free paper and bind
_that_. Problem solved, the book still exists (now in a good form) and
there is a digital copy as well.
It's also interesting to note that DEC themselves made copies of some
handbooks apparently. I've got two handbooks that are obviously copies and
bound with plastic spiral combs. When I asked about these a couple years
ago, I was told this was common. Of course the two I've got are of books
where the original actually has better paper if anything :^)
Zane
9:44 a.m.
It's also interesting to note that DEC themselves
made copies of some
handbooks apparently. I've got two handbooks that are obviously copies and
bound with plastic spiral combs. When I asked about these a couple years
ago, I was told this was common. Of course the two I've got are of books
where the original actually has better paper if anything :^)
Tandy did the same thing at the end of their support for
their early TRS-80 machines. I ordered one of the manuals that came
with the Model 2000 and what arrived a few days later was a
photocopy, bound with the plastic spring spiral.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11:15 a.m.
There does exist an expensive process involving a pressurized system for
neutralizing the acids in pages of books. It is not very widely
available.
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
noon
There does exist an expensive process involving a
pressurized system for
neutralizing the acids in pages of books. It is not very widely
available.
There have been services available for years offering to
treat old comic books, though I've never had any first hand
experience with how successful they are. The comic books up until
the late 1980's were also printed on some of the cheapest, most
acidic paper available. Anyone who has seen a comic book dating from
the 40's or 50's and stored in the typical basement fashion has seen
how brown and brittle that paper gets. They were never meant to
last. Overstreets' annual price guide used to have all kinds of
advertisements from these places.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
7:37 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote:
Brian, this has been discussed at great length before (perhaps you weren't
around then). Hard copies of documents have survived thousands of years.
Digital magnetic media has only been around for at most 25-30 years. We
don't know what's going to happen to that data 50, 100, 500 years from
now.
Those DIGITAL handbooks werent exactly printed on vellum, you know. It was
cheap paper, some containing acids, and probably spend 15-20 years in
computer labs with old technology laserprinters that were spitting
Ozone into the air every few minutes, etc.
What we're discussing is making the information in the books available
to all that need it. A manual that is old, the paper is so orange that
its becomming difficult to read the pages, and the glue binding the
cheaply made book is breaking up so I dont dare open the book very often,
well, such a book is next to useless. What IS useful is getting the
best scans possible, so everyone can print off a modern copy of it,
on acid free paper, and have it bound into a new book.
I dont believe anyone is suggesting that once the pages of the book are
scanned, that the old pages should be burned or discarded. Placing them
in a bag to protect them from dust and Ozone, seems the most likely
scenario. And then the pages are all ready for sometime in the future
when new technology makes the effort of rescanning the pages desirable.
Now, you might say that not all books are in that bad of shape right now.
But, if you know that its just a matter of time, a few decades at best,
before the books will start showing serious signs of decay, then why not
attempt to get the best quality scans now, while you can and while some
of us are still young... And while many of us might be able to use the
information contained in these books.
Many of these useful books arent exactly rare. If you havent seen the
opportunities to buy at least a DOZEN copies of a PDP8 small computer
handbook in the past 6 months, its because you werent looking. And they
are still available in many university libraries. But that doesnt
help make the information as easily and generally available as scanning
and printing working copies does.
So, its a tradeoff. Do the needs of the many, outweight the needs of the
few? Should the scribe that originally argued against making copies of
The Bible, because the sacred pages of the original might be damaged,
should that scribe have been listened to? Probably not.
-Lawrence LeMay
I
completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in
some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever
to be lost then you're SOL.
I'm against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think
your point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's
digital... just make lots of copies and spread them around. I'd say
it's a lot more dangerous to only have the original. 
10:06 a.m.
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11:27 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
[someone else, ?, wrote:]
The answer is quite simple to arrive at: a printed book. Alas, too
many books have been printed on acidic paper... of course, the
solution is rather simple, a good photocopy on acid-free paper. :-)
I'm
against the idea of destroying the original as well, but I think your
point about losing the digital copy is pretty silly. It's digital... just
OK, which would you rather have to read? A book (printed in English)
written about 150 years ago, or a magnetic tape from an Elliot 803? Point is, as we've argued many times before,
digitally-recorded data has
a much shorter life than dead trees (both due to degredation of the
magnetic media and the fact that the equipment used to read it becomes
obsolete).
As to the "dead trees" argument made by rabid environmentalists: not
all paper comes from trees, such as 100% cotton paper. Alas, the
idiot biz-'droids often label it as "resume paper" or somesuch; why
waste such good quality paper on resumes that will be tossed into the
wastbasket within minutes of their receipt, I don't know... on the
otherhand, 100% cotton paper is nice for photocopies of valuable
things as well as for use as stationary (yes, some of us still like
stationary and a fountain pen for writing letters).
I'm all for making copies of such things and
distributing them digitally
if the copyright owner agrees, but I am not in favour of keeping digital
versions of a book/document rather than the original.
I agree completely. Furthermore, printed books are much more pleasant
to read than a computer screen.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
23 Jun
23 Jun
8:13 a.m.
At 07:27 PM 6/22/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote:
The answer is quite simple to arrive at: a printed
book. Alas, too
many books have been printed on acidic paper... of course, the
solution is rather simple, a good photocopy on acid-free paper. :-)
Plastic-carbon toners aren't archival, be they from a copier
or a laser printer. They re-melt, re-flow or otherwise become
adhesive under heat or pressure, and they'll interact with
solvents such as outgassing plastics like the vinyl from a
new three-ring binder.
- John
24 Jun
24 Jun
7:12 p.m.
--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
At 07:27 PM 6/22/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote:
As a result of this, I was told by my mother who used to transcribe
court documents for court reporters, you cannot submit laser printed
or inkjet documents for certain uses - i.e., ones where they will be
stuck together, compressed in a file for decades. The documents must
be printed on an inkjet device or offset printed.
I have many 3-ring binders with the first page glued down by its own ink
because people didn't put in a blank protective page. :-(
-ethan
=====
Visit "The Seventh Continent"
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
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The answer is quite simple to arrive at: a printed
book. Alas, too
many books have been printed on acidic paper... of course, the
solution is rather simple, a good photocopy on acid-free paper. :-)
Plastic-carbon toners aren't archival, be they from a copier
or a laser printer. They re-melt, re-flow or otherwise become
adhesive under heat or pressure, and they'll interact with
solvents such as outgassing plastics like the vinyl from a
new three-ring binder.
25 Jun
25 Jun
7:32 a.m.
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
> Plastic-carbon toners aren't archival, be they from a copier
> or a laser printer. They re-melt, re-flow or otherwise become
court documents for court reporters, you cannot submit
laser printed
or inkjet documents for certain uses - i.e., ones where they will be
stuck together, compressed in a file for decades. The documents must
be printed on an inkjet device or offset printed.
What's the difference betwen an inkjet printer and an inkjet device?
This problem with the output from inkjet printers running and laser
printers being unuseable for long-term storage is yet another example
of the preponderance of poor-quality engineering and poor product
quality foisted upon consumers by corporations. Have others here
noticed an increasing proliferation of misleading and down-right
deceptive advertising, and more wide-spread decreases in product
quality ranging from disappointing to unuseable, over the past decade
or so? I'm not just referring to computer equipment, but to products
ranging from basic necessities such as food to more expensive items
like automobiles. It seems like the more companies tout that ISO
?000, or whavever, "quality certification," the worse things seem to
get, as do the prices, which seem to rise inversely with changes in
product quality and convenience. I'll bet that many corporations have
adoped, if you'll pardon the language, "screw the consumer and rake in
the money" as their motto.
What we need is a method of good-quality printing, useful for archival
quality, that's reasonably affordable to most people who already own
computers.
Like manhy others here have most likely experienced, I've had
laser-printed pages stick together, injet printed pages become
unreadable when they get a little to damp, and dot-matrix output fade
out.
Suggestions?
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
6:40 a.m.
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, R. D. Davis wrote:
Suggestions?
Lighten up.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
26 Jun
26 Jun
3:50 a.m.
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Lighten up.
Hey, I wasn't frowning as I wrote that... :-) :-) :-) I was just
commenting, realistically, on how businesses are harming consumers in
the U.S. (and elsewhere) with the help of the politicians that they
buy, as well as their negative impact on the educational system that
they're buying as well, from grade-schools to universities. I'm all
for healthy profits, but not at the expense of harming, and, or,
cheating, people in order to achieve them. Is not what we need a
biz-'droid-rattling consumer revolt? ...taking place in the workplace
as well. After all, employees are consumers too. If they fire
everyone, well, they're going to have a rather big problem making any
profits at all. :-)
Ok, back to "on topic." :-) With regards to preserving old
documentation, I've discovered that the chrome plating used on many of
the looseleaf binders from DEC, etc., don't hold up well in some
environments where there's a lot of humdity; the chrome flakes off
and the metal rusts, so, for any of those here who've recently begun
collecting them, you might want to keep them in a dry part of your
house.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.perqlogic.com beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
25 Jun
25 Jun
8:57 a.m.
R. D. Davis wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
>
<snip>
This problem with the output from inkjet printers
running and laser
printers being unuseable for long-term storage is yet another example
of the preponderance of poor-quality engineering and poor product
quality foisted upon consumers by corporations. Have others here
noticed an increasing proliferation of misleading and down-right
deceptive advertising, and more wide-spread decreases in product
quality ranging from disappointing to unuseable, over the past decade
or so? I'm not just referring to computer equipment, but to products
ranging from basic necessities such as food to more expensive items
like automobiles. It seems like the more companies tout that ISO
?000, or whavever, "quality certification," the worse things seem to
get, as do the prices, which seem to rise inversely with changes in
product quality and convenience. I'll bet that many corporations have
adoped, if you'll pardon the language, "screw the consumer and rake in
the money" as their motto.
<snip>
It didn't take the computer industry very long to figure out what the
auto manufacturers have known for years: building high-quality (machines
/ devices, etc), relatively inexpensive parts is bad for business. Do
it for too long and you'll put yourself out of business.
Mike
http://tarnover.dyndns.org/
Tarnover - The Apple II Repository
22 Jun
22 Jun
5:34 p.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote:
OK, which would you rather have to read? A book
(printed in English)
written about 150 years ago, or a magnetic tape from an Elliot 803?
Point is, as we've argued many times before, digitally-recorded data has
a much shorter life than dead trees (both due to degredation of the
magnetic media and the fact that the equipment used to read it becomes
obsolete).
I think you mean to say "digital media" has a much shorter life than dead
trees. And even that's debatable depending on the quality of paper and
inks used.
As long as you have a process in place to keep migrating the digital
information off of generation "N" digital media onto generation "N+1"
digital media, say every five years. You'll be able to keep exact copies
of it forever. The main thing is to not let the process lapse.
A fairly good practical example of this actually working can be found by
looking no further than the DNA of a species. Modern homo sapiens have
been around for a lot longer than books. The species has managed to stick
around this long by passing it's DNA along from individual to individual
over many tens of thousands of years. It's not a perfect example, given
that the process involves blending DNA from two sources, but the "copy and
pass on" mechanism obviously is one that works. Digital media should only
be looked at as a temporary container.
The main weakness here is that if the copying process breaks down (i.e.
someone lapses and doesn't copy the tapes in some reasonable amount of
time), then the information won't be passed on.
-brian.
7:55 p.m.
On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Brian Chase wrote:
A fairly good practical example of this actually
working can be found
by looking no further than the DNA of a species. Modern homo sapiens
have been around for a lot longer than books. The species has managed
to stick around this long by passing it's DNA along from individual to
individual over many tens of thousands of years. It's not a perfect
example, given that the process involves blending DNA from two
sources, but the "copy and pass on" mechanism obviously is one that
works. Digital media should only be looked at as a temporary
container.
An interesting analogy. But the reason it has worked so well is that
humans have a built-in desire to have sex, and thus propagate our vital
information.
If having sex could promote the propogation of computer documentation then
we could rest easy, but so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff
around does not necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must
admit to being an exception ;)
The only surefire way to preserve this stuff is to keep hard copies
somewhere. I'm doing my part.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
23 Jun
23 Jun
12:36 a.m.
New subject: MS-DOS backup program - HARDSAVE
Hi All,
Does anyone, by any chance, happen to have a copy of the 'HARDSAVE' backup
program, circa 1987? I've got a few backup sets in that format that I'd
like to get access to, but my copies of the software are corrupt :-(
I've searched the net, but not turned up anything.
I'm hoping that someone here might, from their BBS days, happen to still
have a copy...
Cheers.
10:07 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Thanks to Eric Chomko and MIchael Holley my SWTPc S/09 is now
back up and running. I took the S/09 and all it's documentation over
to Eric's and we put it on his workbench next to his 69/K and spent
the afternoon working on them. I think it's safe to say that we both
learned a thing or two.
We also set up a 5-1/4" floppy drive for it using his SSB
DCB-4A disk controller, in place of my DMFA2 controller. We were
able to boot the SSB DOS without a problem. Since it's known that
the drive works well with the DCB-4A, and we already have the Smoke
Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A
they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his
back <g>
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11:09 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
One of the local surplus outlets has got a few STD bus boards, which I saw but
didn't examine, as the store manager (not a sympathetic sort) was present. I
didn't want to tip him off that they might be of some interest, else he'll add
$100 to the price of each. If there's anybody interested in STD bus hardware
and doc's, please let me know what you might want, and how badly (approximate
value). If I can get the stuff for what you want to pay, I'll do it. I doubt
it's bundled, by the way.
I once had quite a bit of STD bus stuff, acquired from a bankruptcy bound
client, but never got excited about it, hence, didn't learn much about it.
Dick
11:45 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Just out of curiosity, what does the follwoing have to do with SWTPC or
SSB? And what is STD?
Eric
Richard Erlacher wrote:
One of the local surplus outlets has got a few STD bus
boards, which I saw but
didn't examine, as the store manager (not a sympathetic sort) was present. I
didn't want to tip him off that they might be of some interest, else he'll add
$100 to the price of each. If there's anybody interested in STD bus hardware
and doc's, please let me know what you might want, and how badly (approximate
value). If I can get the stuff for what you want to pay, I'll do it. I doubt
it's bundled, by the way.
I once had quite a bit of STD bus stuff, acquired from a bankruptcy bound
client, but never got excited about it, hence, didn't learn much about it.
Dick
11:23 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Jeff Hellige wrote:
Thanks to Eric Chomko and MIchael Holley my
SWTPc S/09 is now
back up and running. I took the S/09 and all it's documentation over
to Eric's and we put it on his workbench next to his 69/K and spent
the afternoon working on them. I think it's safe to say that we both
learned a thing or two.
No doubt about that! I'm still puzzled about my system, however. We
shoulda
snapped pictures too. :(
We also set up a 5-1/4" floppy drive for it using his SSB
DCB-4A disk controller, in place of my DMFA2 controller. We were
able to boot the SSB DOS without a problem. Since it's known that
the drive works well with the DCB-4A, and we already have the Smoke
Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A
they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his
back <g>
Yes, I made him give it back as I was green with envy. Now I gotta get
my system working properly.
Yeah we may be that lone bastion of SSB DOS on the planet, as most folks
have gone FLEX. But hell, SSB DOS is the one I learned and have lots of
SW about.
Anyway, thanks, Jeff, for a day of fun.
Eric
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
12:58 p.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Eric Chomko wrote:
Jeff Hellige wrote:
I got some shots of my system. :) Will make them available later.
The interesting thing about these two similar computers is that the board
layout is distinctly different WRT the SS-50 vs. the SS-30 busses. In mine
they are perpendicular, and in Jeff's they are parallel. Quite fascianting
really
when you think that a decision by SWTPC was made to make the change.
(Mine is no doubt the earlier -traditional layout from the 6800 days.)
Jeff's is no doubt SWTPC's reaction to the Gimix and Helix boxes of the day.
Interesting to find out what manufacture numbers (quantity) exist for both
types.
All would die with the advent of the PC, but the historical aspects of the
SS-50
bus became more fascianting today once I realized that major switch.
Eric
Thanks to Eric Chomko and MIchael Holley
my SWTPc S/09 is now
back up and running. I took the S/09 and all it's documentation over
to Eric's and we put it on his workbench next to his 69/K and spent
the afternoon working on them. I think it's safe to say that we both
learned a thing or two.
No doubt about that! I'm still puzzled about my system, however. We
shoulda
snapped pictures too. :(
We also set up a 5-1/4" floppy drive for it using his SSB
DCB-4A disk controller, in place of my DMFA2 controller. We were
able to boot the SSB DOS without a problem. Since it's known that
the drive works well with the DCB-4A, and we already have the Smoke
Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A
they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his
back <g>
Yes, I made him give it back as I was green with envy. Now I gotta get
my system working properly.
Yeah we may be that lone bastion of SSB DOS on the planet, as most folks
have gone FLEX. But hell, SSB DOS is the one I learned and have lots of
SW about.
Anyway, thanks, Jeff, for a day of fun.
Eric
>
> Jeff
> --
> Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
25 Jun
25 Jun
10:26 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Interesting to find out what manufacture numbers
(quantity) exist for both
types.
All would die with the advent of the PC, but the historical aspects of the
SS-50
bus became more fascianting today once I realized that major switch.
Not only would it be interesting to find out how many are
still out there, but also to determine just how many were made to
begin with. Given that quite a few of them started life as kits vice
assembled units though, I wonder if those were serialized at all.
For instance, your 69/K doesn't have the model#/serial# sticker on
the rear panel. Also, though mine is a later machine, likely
produced after mid 1980, it has a serial# of 004906.
Too bad nobody has ever done a FAQ on the SWTPC or other
SS-50 bus machines.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
24 Jun
24 Jun
6:54 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Congrats to Jeff and Eric
Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4
or DCB-4A
they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his
back <g>
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
4:49 p.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Mike wrote:
Congrats to Jeff and Eric
Thanks, we had a hell of a lot of fun!
Eric
> Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4 or DCB-4A
> they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his
> back <g>
>
> Jeff
> --
> Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
>
7:14 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Congrats on the revival guys! I'd like to hear some more of the details
you guys faced getting it/them going again.
Signal Broadcasting DOS, does anyone have a SSB DCB-4
or DCB-4A
they'd be willing to part with? Unfortunately, I had to give his
back <g>
I have an extra SSB DCB-4E. It's the Micromodule/EXORcisor bus version but
you might be able to hack it in there that you can have if you cant find a 4
or 4A.
;)
- Mike: dogas(a)bellsouth.net
8:11 a.m.
New subject: SWTPc S/09 is alive
Congrats on the revival guys! I'd like to hear
some more of the details
you guys faced getting it/them going again.
For my machine, it ended up being something pretty simple.
On the S/09, all of the baud rate generation stuff was moved off of
the CPU board onto the MP-ID bridgecard, along with all of the
addressing logic from the backplane. There are a number of different
jumpers which, in various combinations, control the baud rate
generators but I didn't have any of the docs for the MP-ID. It
appeared that everything was set for 9600 baud, but a few days ago I
finally got the docs for the MP-ID and it showed that the jumper that
controlled the low/hi baud rate line was set for Hi, for 38400, vice
low, for 9600. Yesterday we used Eric's Televideo hooked up to both
machines..today I used my Altos III to repeat the tests we ran from
the monitor program.
As Eric mentioned, there are a number of interesting
differences between the machines, though externally they appear
identical. Among the more interesting things is that mine has a
totally passive backplane while his has various logic onboard, this
logic being moved to the MP-ID bridgecard on my system. Also,
according to scans of SWTPc catalog pages, it shows that my machine
is capable of addressing up to 768k while the 69/K is shown as being
able to address up to 56k, though the MP-09 cpu board is shown as
being able to address up to 384k. Both of our machines had 56k
installed, though nearly every board in mine had various
modifications and jumper wires whereas his tended to be untouched.
Though this is easily changed, his also had just the basic monitor
ROM while mine previously had two additional ROMs installed to
support OS/9, as well as modifications to the CPU board to better
support FLEX/UNIFLEX.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
2:11 a.m.
Quoting Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>om>:
so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff
around does not
necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to
being an exception ;)
Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of
Intrigue and Danger" status?
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)ou.edu
6:29 a.m.
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
Quoting Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>om>:
I think it's the Altair 8800. Get your hands on one and women will beat a
path to your door (that's why they always commanded such a premium on eBay
;)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff
around does not
necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to
being an exception ;)
Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of
Intrigue and Danger" status? 
10:06 p.m.
At 11:29 AM 24/06/2001 -0700, you wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
I was told that an MG TD sports car was sure bait for beautiful
girls, but I have had mine for forty seven years and they haven't
appeared. Do you think I should ditch it and buy an Altair?
Cheers
Charlie Fox
Chas E. Fox Video Productions
793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8
foxvideo(a)wincom.net
Check out:
Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com
Quoting Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>om>:
I think it's the Altair 8800. Get your hands on one and women will beat a
path to your door (that's why they always commanded such a premium on eBay
;)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff
around does not
necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to
being an exception ;)
Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of
Intrigue and Danger" status? 
25 Jun
25 Jun
9 a.m.
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Charles E. Fox wrote:
At 11:29 AM 24/06/2001 -0700, you wrote:
You were mislead, Charlie. It was the TC!
- don
On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
I was told that an MG TD sports car was sure bait for beautiful
girls, but I have had mine for forty seven years and they haven't
appeared. Do you think I should ditch it and buy an Altair? Quoting Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>om>:
I think it's the Altair 8800. Get your hands on one and women will beat a
path to your door (that's why they always commanded such a premium on eBay
;)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org so far being geeky and keeping old computer stuff
around does not
necessarily lead to excessive sexual encounters (I must admit to
being an exception ;)
Are you sure that isn't becuase of your "International Man of
Intrigue and Danger" status? Cheers
Charlie Fox
Chas E. Fox Video Productions
793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8
foxvideo(a)wincom.net
Check out:
Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com
24 Jun
24 Jun
11:46 a.m.
New subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff...
This fall (Sept 29-Oct 3) I'll be in London...while I'm there, I'd like
to
pick up some BBC Micro stuff (disk drives, software, etc. would be
nice).
I have one of the BBC Micro B machines, converted to use American
current
(but otherwise unchanged).
I know there are issues about charity shops selling electronic
equipment, though...
Thanks in advance!
25 Jun
25 Jun
5:40 a.m.
New subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff...
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26 Jun
26 Jun
12:14 a.m.
New subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff...
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:40:44 +0100 (BST) Tony Duell
<ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
If anyone knows of shops in London (England) that sell
old computer stuff,
could they let me know as well, please...
I know some in the West Country, so if anyone's in the
Bristol/Bath area, take a look at: 10-15 Music Exchange.
They mainly sell records, Hi-fi and guitar amps, but they
do have non-PC computers, too. Quite a few Amstrad PCWs
and Apple Macs. There are three branches, in Bristol
(Gloucester Road), Bath (Broad Street) and
Weston-Super-Mare (Orchard Place).
Tony, any sign of a secondhand chain called Cash Converters
in the London area? The big Bristol branch has closed, but
there may be others.
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
7:58 a.m.
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2:05 p.m.
New subject: Trip to London, want BBC Micro stuff...
Tony Duell skrev:
> Tony, any sign of a secondhand chain called Cash
Converters
> in the London area? The big Bristol branch has closed, but
Cash Converters were still going a couple of weeks
back, so unless
they've closed very recently they are still trading. But their prices
tend to be out-of-this-world (No, I don't think a battered C64 is worth
50 quid, OK...). I think I've found exactly one bargain in that chain
over the years.
That must be why they were so short-lived here. They had no idea about correct
pricing, and probably ended up paying a lot more than things were worth to
sellers. OTOH, they had quite nice prices in the shops, and during the few
months that they were in business, I frequented them a lot.
They still haven't removed their business signs from their old shops, though,
the slobs.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei.
--- Leonardo da Vinci
23 Jun
23 Jun
7:21 a.m.
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22 Jun
22 Jun
2:31 p.m.
And others have pointed out that DEC handbooks are on
truly lousy paper.
Therefore, the _solution_ is to scan them at best possible resolution.
Fix any scanning artifacts, the _print them_ on acid free paper and bind
_that_. Problem solved, the book still exists (now in a good form) and
there is a digital copy as well.
Keep in mind that only one copy of any of the handbooks need be
sacrificed in this manner... I sure hope that lots of people don't
start cutting up their handbooks to make copies.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
10:38 a.m.
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Please note that I said "dismantle" not "destroy". If you've
handled these
old DEC handbooks, you'd see the cracking, yellowed pages and the perfect
binding turning to dust. The idea is you carefully remove the leaves from
the remaining binding so you can line them up nicely on a scanner/photocopier
and then put them back in order in a baggie so you still have the original
paper for ultimate reference/new scanning technologies, but you also have a
high-quality digital copy that can be printed, archived, shared, etc.
All this is moot if you don't scan at a resolution that approaches that of
the printing device, of course.
-ethan
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Talk to Doug Jones. He recommends dismantling
the book carefully
for the best quality copies/scans.
I completely recommend AGAINST destroying the original. Not only is it in
some cases a historical artifact on its own, if the digital copy were ever
to be lost then you're SOL.
5:30 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote:
If the paper has deteriorated (usually due to acids contained in it), then
you are out of luck - duplicate it while you still can. If the paper is
in good shape, then it can be rebound. Sometimes you need to trim a tiny
bit from the edge (a usable paper shear starts at ~$400).
--
Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com
XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236
Any
suggestions on what to use to re-glue the pages, or rebinding, etc?
I have no idea on that one. As someone else here mentioned, perhaps
a librarian might know. I would expect the answer, however, for a
30-year-old paperback to be unsatisfactory.
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