You wouldn't see change over night, but within a year (probably less) reports would come out of people finding and fixing numerous major bugs in all sorts of MS offerings, the first probably being the MS kernel. Bugs that MS staff either wouldn't acknowledge were there or probably didn't KNOW were there. And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org