17 Sep
2003
17 Sep
'03
6:42 p.m.
Hm, that's a good point. You know, I don't know. I have not
seen this thing. It sounded to me like it was something big.
So, may be it is an IBM with some AT&T label on it? I don't
know.
-Gunther
jim wrote:
what is an at&t mainframe? one they owned, or
manufactured?
if it is one of the 3B's it probably wont get me interested, but if it
is
an IBM mainframe from a datacenter that is old, I am very interested.
I just have not heard the term "mainframe" applied to any 3B's and
don't know what else they may have.
if these are switching systems, I assume they are of the 3, 4 or 5ESS
classes?
Jim
17 Sep
17 Sep
11:08 p.m.
jim wrote:
>what is an at&t mainframe? one they owned, or manufactured?
Perhaps it's a largish AT&T minicomputer, like the multi-processor
3B4000.
>if it is one of the 3B's it probably wont get
me interested, but if it
AT&T 3Bxxxx systems are not all alike... some are little tiny machines
like the 3B1 (which is totally different from the other 3Bx and 3Bxxxx
systems... not sure why they called it a 3Banything, except for
marketing purposes... it's more like a re-engineered CT miniframe with
built-in video), then there are the vastly larger multi-processor
machines that are of an entirely different design.
>I just have not heard the term
"mainframe" applied to any 3B's and
>don't know what else they may have.
Let's just say that some 3Bxxxx systems are not at all small, but I
would guess that they're still classified as minicomputers, not
mainframes... depending upon one's definition of mainframe.
>if these are switching systems, I assume they are
of the 3, 4 or 5ESS
>classes?
Probably unlikely... more like one, or more, WE[something] proessors,
IIRC.
--
Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
18 Sep
18 Sep
8:53 a.m.
New subject: So what's the definition of a "mainframe" (Re: at&t mainframe)
R. D. Davis wrote:
Let's just say that some 3Bxxxx systems are not at
all small, but I
would guess that they're still classified as minicomputers, not
mainframes... depending upon one's definition of mainframe.
So, let's clarify the terminology: what's a mainframe anyway?
Webster's is particularly unhelpful:
Main Entry: main?frame
Pronunciation: 'mAn-"frAm
Function: noun
Date: circa 1964
: a computer with its cabinet and internal circuits; also : a large fast
computer that can handle multiple tasks concurrently
haha, so my Laptop is a mainframe :-) :-)
What they're missing is that the term "mainframe" is sometimes
applied to Oscilloscopes that come with many open slots where
you plug in special circuitry. So, a mainframe to me is a
system that consists of backplane and lots of modules, particularly
CPU modules. That would make all the VAXen takeaway VAXstations
to be mainframes.
Another definition could be: "mainframe is a large IBM computer"
whereas "big VAXen are always called 'minicomputer', even a complete
VAX 9000 system." (Whereas pre VAX computers are not computers
at all, but 'programmed data processor', but I digress :-)
regards,
-Gunther
9:08 a.m.
New subject: So what's the definition of a "mainframe" (Re: at&t mainframe)
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote:
I think a mainframe probably needs it's I/O to be coprocessed to qualify
these days. Many supercomputers must qualify on that factor. Computers I
would consider to be a mainframe tend to have a lot more I/O horsepower
than processor horsepower. I don't think that applies to supercomputers.
Peace... Sridhar
Let's just
say that some 3Bxxxx systems are not at all small, but I
would guess that they're still classified as minicomputers, not
mainframes... depending upon one's definition of mainframe.
So, let's clarify the terminology: what's a mainframe anyway? 
2:13 p.m.
New subject: So what's the definition of a "mainframe" (Re: at&t mainframe)
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote:
So, let's clarify the terminology: what's a
mainframe anyway?
Webster's is particularly unhelpful:
Date: circa 1964
: a computer with its cabinet and internal circuits; also : a large fast
computer that can handle multiple tasks concurrently
haha, so my Laptop is a mainframe :-) :-)
ANY performance spec based definition is a moving target.
By some old definitions, my current wristwatch (Matsucom) is a mainframe.
Even any definition based on characteristics is a crapshoot. Do you want
to exclude a machine because it uses a DIFFERENT technology?
PRICE is more stable, but still has a few exceptions, such as
gold plated jewel encrusted calculators, and usually fails to take into
account Moore's law (which has brought a lot of the prices down)
An unpopular set of definitions that has a few exceptions, but has help up
fairly well over time:
"A microcomputer is one that you can pick up and carry."
"A minicoputer requires a handtruck." (casters, anyone?)
"A mainframe requires a forklift and a union moving crew." (several
regulars here have proven exceptions to THAT!)
3:20 p.m.
New subject: So what's the definition of a "mainframe" (Re: at&t
It was thus said that the Great Fred Cisin once stated:
ANY performance spec based definition is a moving target.
By some old definitions, my current wristwatch (Matsucom) is a mainframe.
Even any definition based on characteristics is a crapshoot. Do you want
to exclude a machine because it uses a DIFFERENT technology?
PRICE is more stable, but still has a few exceptions, such as
gold plated jewel encrusted calculators, and usually fails to take into
account Moore's law (which has brought a lot of the prices down)
An unpopular set of definitions that has a few exceptions, but has help up
fairly well over time:
"A microcomputer is one that you can pick up and carry."
"A minicoputer requires a handtruck." (casters, anyone?)
"A mainframe requires a forklift and a union moving crew." (several
regulars here have proven exceptions to THAT!)
How about:
Supercomputer: A specialized computer dedicated to running very heavy
mathematical simulations as fast as possible. Such machines are typically
standalone, or standalone with another computer as a frontend. Such
machines are compute bound and are generally only affordable to governments,
large corporations or universities.
Mainframe: A specialized computer for handling administrative or business
tasks. While not as fast as other computers, it does handle a large volume
of IO transactions per second, retrieving, sorting, storing and otherwise
manipulating data. Such machines are IO bound (typically) and are generally
affordable for governments, most mid to large sized companies and
universities.
Seems to cover what supercomputers and mainframes are pretty well, and in
a technology-independent way.
-spc (Anyone?)
7:26 p.m.
New subject: So what's the definition of a "mainframe" (Re: at&t
An unpopular set of definitions that has a few
exceptions, but has help up
fairly well over time:
"A microcomputer is one that you can pick up and carry."
"A minicoputer requires a handtruck." (casters, anyone?)
"A mainframe requires a forklift and a union moving crew." (several
regulars here have proven exceptions to THAT!)
Also :
If you lost a screwdriver inside it, it's a micro
If you lost a 'scope inside it, it's a mini
If you lost yourself inside it, it's a mainframe
:-)
-tony
7782
days inactive
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
spc＠conman.org -
vance＠neurotica.com