18 Apr
2002
18 Apr
'02
12:43 a.m.
From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>
Feh! Too common, everyone has a few many don't use them.
First it should be dimensionless, those are weird enough. If not then
like DB (DeciBell) which will give it a log or exponential character though
I'd be interested in seeing other oddly shaped numbers.
A possible name? Calcula with a range of values from microcalcula
(watch calc or smaller) to Kilo or maybe megacalcula(Sage! or other beast).
Allison
If a formula
for determining classic computer cool factor gets finalized,
I'd like to create a calculator script on the VCF website so that people
can enter their parameters and have their score automatically computed.
We need a unit or label for this number.
The neuron. 
17 Apr
17 Apr
6:32 p.m.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Allison wrote:
From: Cameron Kaiser
<spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>
Feh! Too common, everyone has a few many don't use them.
First it should be dimensionless, those are weird enough. If not then
like DB (DeciBell) which will give it a log or exponential character though
I'd be interested in seeing other oddly shaped numbers.
A possible name? Calcula with a range of values from microcalcula
(watch calc or smaller) to Kilo or maybe megacalcula(Sage! or other beast).
How about calling it a Babbage?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
If a
formula for determining classic computer cool factor gets finalized,
I'd like to create a calculator script on the VCF website so that people
can enter their parameters and have their score automatically computed.
We need a unit or label for this number.
The neuron. 
18 Apr
18 Apr
2:54 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
> >> If a formula for determining classic
computer cool factor gets finalized,
> >> I'd like to create a calculator script on the VCF website so that
people
> >> can enter their parameters and have their score automatically computed.
> >> We need a unit or label for this number.
> >The neuron.
> Feh! Too common, everyone has a few many don't use them.
> First it should be dimensionless, those are weird
enough. If not then
> like DB (DeciBell) which will give it a log or exponential character though
> I'd be interested in seeing other oddly shaped numbers.
> A possible name? Calcula with a range of values
from microcalcula
> (watch calc or smaller) to Kilo or maybe megacalcula(Sage! or other beast).
How about calling it a Babbage?
Well, I'd rather go for Zuse. Not only because he is
German(*), but rather because there is still no basic
or derivated SI unit starting with Z, so Z would give
a prety good symbol. There is already the Bq (Bequerel),
so Babbage wouldn't be so nicht - the same is true for
Calcula (C -> Celsius) and Ambit (A -> Ampere).
If this has to be successful we have to fit it into
the SI system :)
Gruss
H.
(*) Ok, it's just because of that, but I got some excuses
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
17 Apr
17 Apr
9:25 p.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
Yes, of course, Zuse, since Germans are the greatest! I was going to
suggest Zuse but then I relaized how much of a big head that would give
you, and you already have trouble balancing what you have on your
shoulders as it is :)
Zuse would be a good unit of measure, but nobody in America knows how to
pronounce it properly, so it would only serve to further demonstrate how
ignorant most of us are.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
How about
calling it a Babbage?
Well, I'd rather go for Zuse. Not only because he is
German(*), but rather because there is still no basic
or derivated SI unit starting with Z, so Z would give
a prety good symbol. There is already the Bq (Bequerel),
so Babbage wouldn't be so nicht - the same is true for
Calcula (C -> Celsius) and Ambit (A -> Ampere). 
18 Apr
18 Apr
5:45 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
Zuse would be a good unit of measure, but nobody in America knows how to
pronounce it properly, so it would only serve to further demonstrate how
ignorant most of us are.
While I happen to be less ignorant than most Americans (I already knew
how to say "Zuse"), in principle I agree. If you didn't know, there's
no way to know.
How about a button on "The Unit" calculator that speaks the value,
including the unit name on the end. SAM on the C-64 or the Amiga's
narrator.device could provide the audio - all that is required is
a way to digitize it on request and pipe it out.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
How about
calling it a Babbage?
Well, I'd rather go for Zuse.
17 Apr
17 Apr
11:18 p.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
How about a button on "The Unit" calculator
that speaks the value,
including the unit name on the end. SAM on the C-64 or the Amiga's
narrator.device could provide the audio - all that is required is a way
to digitize it on request and pipe it out.
I could get S.A.M. to speak it, but it would only serve to make matters
worse since it doesn't do the best job at synthesizing.
How about we get Hans to speak it so we can also capture the essence of
spoken perfection with Hans' Bavarian dialect? :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
18 Apr
18 Apr
8:45 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
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19 Apr
19 Apr
12:23 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
> German(*), but rather because there is still no
basic
> or derivated SI unit starting with Z, so Z would give
> a prety good symbol. There is already the Bq (Bequerel),
> so Babbage wouldn't be so nicht - the same is true for
> Calcula (C -> Celsius) and Ambit (A -> Ampere).
Since when has 'Celsius' been an SI unit? And
since when has the
abreviation for it been 'C'? C _is_ used for an SI unit -- the Coulomh.
It is a derivated unit, as Coulomb, but you'r right, the
name is Degree Celsius (°C), and youre right, C is Coulomb.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
1:19 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
Coulombs aren't derived.
Peace... Sridhar
>
German(*), but rather because there is still no basic
> or derivated SI unit starting with Z, so Z would give
> a prety good symbol. There is already the Bq (Bequerel),
> so Babbage wouldn't be so nicht - the same is true for
> Calcula (C -> Celsius) and Ambit (A -> Ampere).
Since when has 'Celsius' been an SI unit?
And since when has the
abreviation for it been 'C'? C _is_ used for an SI unit -- the Coulomh.
It is a derivated unit, as Coulomb, but you'r right, the
name is Degree Celsius (°C), and youre right, C is Coulomb.
1:24 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
> > > German(*), but rather because there is
still no basic
> > > or derivated SI unit starting with Z, so Z would give
> > > a prety good symbol. There is already the Bq (Bequerel),
> > > so Babbage wouldn't be so nicht - the same is true for
> > > Calcula (C -> Celsius) and Ambit (A -> Ampere).
> > Since when has 'Celsius' been an SI
unit? And since when has the
> > abreviation for it been 'C'? C _is_ used for an SI unit -- the Coulomh.
> It is a derivated unit, as Coulomb, but you'r
right, the
> name is Degree Celsius (oC), and youre right, C is Coulomb.
Coulombs aren't derived.
Coulombs are defined as As (Ampere Seconds) and therefore derivated
from the seven basic units (m,kg,s,A,K,mol,cd).
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
2:28 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
But A are defined as C/s, right? C are just derived in terms of eV,
aren't they?
Peace... Sridhar
> It is a
derivated unit, as Coulomb, but you'r right, the
> name is Degree Celsius (oC), and youre right, C is Coulomb.
Coulombs aren't derived.
Coulombs are defined as As (Ampere Seconds) and therefore derivated
from the seven basic units (m,kg,s,A,K,mol,cd).
3:19 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
> > > It is a derivated unit, as Coulomb, but
you'r right, the
> > > name is Degree Celsius (oC), and youre right, C is Coulomb.
> > Coulombs aren't derived.
> Coulombs are defined as As (Ampere Seconds) and
therefore derivated
> from the seven basic units (m,kg,s,A,K,mol,cd).
But A are defined as C/s, right? C are just derived
in terms of eV,
aren't they?
Nop. A is defined in itself - Well, it's a basic unit (*).
Coloumb is the electric charge, defined as Amper Seconds.
The eV (electron volt) is a unit for energy, usualy named
as Joule, or in our environment measured as wh (kwh).
While one joule is the name for 1 ws, the electron volt
is a quite small thing. if I'm correct it's 0,2 Attojoule
(aJ).
Gruss
H.
(*) Now, the Ampere is defind as the current (dc) needed
to flow in two paralell wires, one meter apart to produce
a force between the wires of 200 nN (Nanonewton) or something
like that. The Ampere is, like the Meter and the other SI
units a man defined unit.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
5:37 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
Now I know that the Coulomb was derived before the Ampere. I'll look it
up and get back to you.
Peace... Sridhar
But A are
defined as C/s, right? C are just derived in terms of eV,
aren't they?
Nop. A is defined in itself - Well, it's a basic unit (*).
Coloumb is the electric charge, defined as Amper Seconds.
The eV (electron volt) is a unit for energy, usualy named
as Joule, or in our environment measured as wh (kwh).
While one joule is the name for 1 ws, the electron volt
is a quite small thing. if I'm correct it's 0,2 Attojoule
(aJ).
11:38 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
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4:07 p.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated:
Still, what do you expect from a system of units where one of the base
units -- by its very name -- is clearly 1000 times something else (I am
thinking of the kilogram, of course)
I thought the gram was the base unit, which is one cubic centemeter of
water at 4 Celcius (when water is at its most dense).
-spc (Okay, so maybe kilogram is the most convenient unit here ... )
20 Apr
20 Apr
12:03 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
> Still, what do you expect from a system of units
where one of the base
> units -- by its very name -- is clearly 1000 times something else (I am
> thinking of the kilogram, of course)
I thought the gram was the base unit, which is one
cubic centemeter of
water at 4 Celcius (when water is at its most dense).
Naa - The due historical reasons the Kilogramm is defined as
the mass of the kilogramm prototype. And when they defined the
system, they wanted to have a small thing as basic unit, but
here unable to get this done with low enough tollerance. So the
prototype is a thousand times the unit (cuts tolerances by 1000,
which is a good thing).
Also the kilogramm is, AFAIR, the last of the basic units which
still relies on a prototype and has no definition on some nature
constant. The idea with the highest possibility of success would
be to link mass over the Avogadro value to the number of atoms in
one mol of a specific element (isotop). the only problem is counting
the atoms :)
If you can come up with a way to define a kilogramm by using
fundamental constants, you'll be a scientific hero.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
6:35 a.m.
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7:43 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
Tony Duell wrote:
[1] If I want to name the unit of length that's
1/1000 of a metre I call
it a millimetre. But if I want one thousandth of the standard unit of
mass, I don't call it a millikilogram :-).
> Also the kilogramm is, AFAIR, the last of the
basic units which
> still relies on a prototype and has no definition on some nature
It does so! Just the basic unit of nature they picked was not a real
basic unit - it was the earth! The meter was something like 1/10,000,000
the Earth's curumfrence going thru Paris and the North and South poles.
The Kilogram's (derived from the meter ) volume was filled with water
and thus you got a unit weight.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
10:09 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
<PEDANTIC>
Ahem. Kilograms don't measure weight. Newtons measure weight.
</PEDANTIC>
Peace... Sridhar
[1] If I want
to name the unit of length that's 1/1000 of a metre I call
it a millimetre. But if I want one thousandth of the standard unit of
mass, I don't call it a millikilogram :-).
> Also the kilogramm is, AFAIR, the last of
the basic units which
> still relies on a prototype and has no definition on some nature
It does so! Just the basic unit of nature they picked was not a real
basic unit - it was the earth! The meter was something like 1/10,000,000
the Earth's curumfrence going thru Paris and the North and South poles.
The Kilogram's (derived from the meter ) volume was filled with water
and thus you got a unit weight. 
11:15 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
Ahem. Kilograms don't measure weight. Newtons
measure weight.
I was under the impression Newtons were for mass, and kilograms were
for
weight on Earth factoring in the acceleration due to gravity...
Alex
--
My computer's heavier than yours.
12:29 p.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On 21 Apr 2002, Alex White wrote:
It's the other way around. A Newton is a KgM/s^2.
Peace... Sridhar
Ahem.
Kilograms don't measure weight. Newtons measure weight.
I was under the
impression Newtons were for mass, and kilograms were for
weight on Earth factoring in the acceleration due to gravity...
21 Apr
21 Apr
6:32 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
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3 May
3 May
2 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
Ok, VCFe is over.
Beside that it was a huge success (>300 Attendees), the
ClassicCmpCalulationCunstruct had it's first public aperance.
On Saturday I held a lecture about our little development.
The crowd went crazy.
I'd like to thank everyone who helped to develop this
milestone for the scientific research about classic
computers.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 4.0 am 03./04. April 2003 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
6:07 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Hans Franke wrote:
Ok, VCFe is over.
Beside that it was a huge success (>300 Attendees), the
Excellent!
ClassicCmpCalulationCunstruct had it's first
public aperance. On
Saturday I held a lecture about our little development.
The crowd went crazy.
Even more excellent!
I'd like to thank everyone who helped to develop
this milestone for
the scientific research about classic computers.
I wish I could have been there!
Peace... Sridhar
--
"How do you fight such a savage?"
"With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one."
-MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander"
20 Apr
20 Apr
6:45 p.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
At 07:35 PM 20/04/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
That does _NOT_ explain why the base unit is called the
kilogram (it's
the name I am objecting to, and the way that multiples/submultiples are
named [1]).
My understanding for using the Kg rather than g is that it cuts down on the
number of zeros needed. Most real world things we weigh are a more Kg like
than g. For example, a VAX-8800 might weigh 400Kg, which is 400,000g
(there's a good chance of losing one of those zeros).
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)kerberos.davies.net.au
| "If God had wanted soccer played in the
| air, the sky would be painted green"
21 Apr
21 Apr
4:52 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
At 07:35 PM 20/04/2002 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
Haven't been paying too much attention to the thread, but I have to chime in
that astronomers don't use the SI (aka MKS (meters, kilograms, seconds))
standard units, but use CGS (centimeter, gram, seconds) based units.
Of course, astronomers always have too many zeros. It doesn't really
matter if a parsec is 3.09x10^18 cm or 3.09x10^16 m.
Where is does get confusing is electric charge. In CGS, the charge of
an electron is 4.8x10^-10 electrostatic units (e.s.u.). An e.s.u. is
one g^(1/2) cm^(3/2) s^(-1).
Eric
That does _NOT_ explain why the base unit is
called the kilogram (it's
the name I am objecting to, and the way that multiples/submultiples are
named [1]).
My understanding for using the Kg rather than g is that it cuts down on the
number of zeros needed. Most real world things we weigh are a more Kg like
than g. For example, a VAX-8800 might weigh 400Kg, which is 400,000g
(there's a good chance of losing one of those zeros). 
5:16 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
Haven't been paying too much attention to the
thread,
Same here, I try to keep busy off the list too.
Where is does get confusing is electric charge.
Speaking of confusing, IIRC, the terms anode/cathode
changed polarity between the Physicist and the Chemist.
John A.
3:05 p.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
At 01:16 PM 4/21/02 -0400, you wrote:
Speaking of confusing, IIRC, the terms anode/cathode
changed polarity between the Physicist and the Chemist.
John A.
What! Never heard of it. Perhaps you're confusing
cathode/anode and anions/cations?
Carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
9:36 p.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
> >That does _NOT_ explain why the base unit is
called the kilogram (it's
> >the name I am objecting to, and the way that multiples/submultiples are
> >named [1]).
> My understanding for using the Kg rather than g
is that it cuts down on the
> number of zeros needed. Most real world things we weigh are a more Kg like
> than g. For example, a VAX-8800 might weigh 400Kg, which is 400,000g
> (there's a good chance of losing one of those zeros).
Haven't been paying too much attention to the
thread, but I have to chime in
that astronomers don't use the SI (aka MKS (meters, kilograms, seconds))
standard units, but use CGS (centimeter, gram, seconds) based units.
Of course, astronomers always have too many zeros. It doesn't really
matter if a parsec is 3.09x10^18 cm or 3.09x10^16 m.
Excuse me ? cm/g/s is still the SI.
Where is does get confusing is electric charge. In
CGS, the charge of
an electron is 4.8x10^-10 electrostatic units (e.s.u.). An e.s.u. is
one g^(1/2) cm^(3/2) s^(-1).
Still the same, since we are talking derivated units.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
6:52 a.m.
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20 Apr
20 Apr
12:10 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Subject: Re: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Date sent: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:38:02 +0100 (BST)
Send reply to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> > It is a derivated unit, as Coulomb, but
you'r right, the
> > name is Degree Celsius (=B0C), and youre right, C is Coulomb.
> Coulombs aren't derived.
Unforutnately they are :-(. The SI base unit for
electical quanitities is
the Ampere (A) for electric current. All other electrical units are
derived from that (together with the other base units). The Coulomb is
defined as an A*s
(and FWIW, the Ohm is the kg * m^2 / (A^2 * s^3),
the volt is the kg * m^2 / (A * s^3), erc)
IIRC, the ampere is defined by a totally impractical
experiment
concerning the force between 2 infintely long, zero diameter parallel wires
carrying a current in a vacuum. Obviously the only way to do this
experiment is to calculate the force between 2 coils of real under the
suitable conditions as a function of the current, and then to actually
measure that force when the current-under-test is flowing).
No, the definition is quite theoretical, but it includes the calculation
of one of the magnetic constants (dont ask me which, school is a quite
long time ago) which again can be measured - and when you know this constant
all the rest is stable without building the gedankenexperiment in reality.
IMHO, the coulomb should have been taken as the base
unit (say define 1 C
as the charge on 6.24...*10^18 electons. Charge (which is a property of
a particle) seems to be much more fundamental than current (which is a rate
of flow of charge).
Well, the problem is still how you count the electrons ...
A definition without a way to measure it is quite wothless.
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
6:38 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
Hans Franke wrote:
Well, the problem is still how you count the electrons
...
A definition without a way to measure it is quite wothless.
Well they have been able to do that for a while.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
6:40 a.m.
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19 Apr
19 Apr
6:44 a.m.
New subject: The Unit (was: One-upsmanship (was: Secret Mac))
At 02:23 PM 4/19/02 +0200, you wrote:
wait - isn't the Kelvin the SI unit?
carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
Since when has
'Celsius' been an SI unit? And since when has the
abreviation for it been 'C'? C _is_ used for an SI unit -- the Coulomh.
It
is a derivated unit, as Coulomb, but you'r right, the
name is Degree Celsius (?C), and youre right, C is Coulomb.
Gruss 
18 Apr
18 Apr
3 a.m.
New subject: One-upsmanship
I think that certainly one of the criteria should be the HVAC required...
"My computer requires more tons of AC cooling than yours"
Jay West
3:49 a.m.
New subject: One-upsmanship
Jay West wrote:
I think that certainly one of the criteria should be the HVAC required...
"My computer requires more tons of AC cooling than yours"
Well that may
not true any more for OLD computers. Remember now you can
get cooling units that fit on the CPU of modern machines.
Anyway can somebody with access to BYTE look up a benchmark they had
many years ago (1980's???) that had word size, opcode length and memory
speed all related together. They gave the PDP-8 as a example and it did
rather well. That would also be a good classic benchmark too.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
2:31 p.m.
New subject: One-upsmanship
At 10:00 AM 4/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
I think that certainly one of the criteria should be
the HVAC required...
"My computer requires more tons of AC cooling than yours"
Jay West
Here's mine:
"My computer has broken more vertebrae than yours"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
5:32 a.m.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
I like it, except, ...
Intrinsically, a real Babbage engine would presumably have a rating of ONE
Babbage. Does ANYONE here have anything that would rate higher than one?
>> We
need a unit or label for this number.
How about calling it a Babbage? 
7:31 a.m.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 blstuart(a)bellsouth.net wrote:
In message
<Pine.LNX.4.33.0204180631001.27156-100000(a)siconic.com>om>, Sellam Ismai
l writes:
Well, Zuse beat them all :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
How about calling it a Babbage?
That was my thought as well, with possible runners up of
the Zuse, the Aiken, the Eckert or the Mauchley. 
20 Apr
20 Apr
2:39 a.m.
New subject: Early Computer Inventors
Rumor has it that blstuart(a)bellsouth.net may have mentioned these words:
In message
<Pine.LNX.4.33.0204180631001.27156-100000(a)siconic.com>om>, Sellam
Ismai
l writes:
>How about calling it a Babbage?
That was my thought as well, with possible runners up
of
the Zuse, the Aiken, the Eckert or the Mauchley.
My vote is still with the Zuse, dunno about the Aiken, but Eckert &
Mouchley were thieves - they were the Micro$hafts of early computer science
- if you're looking for some Americans to nominate, go for Atanasoff or
Berry - they had a working computer *long* before E & M. E & M *stole* most
of their hard work and then patented it - which is why they are in the
history books... but what they don't tell is that the patents were
re-issued back to the rightful owners in 1974.
[[ _Arguably_ the ABC (Atanasoff Berry Computer) was operational before
Zuse's Z1, (October 1939), but the fact that Zuse was working alone without
the backing of an educational institution makes him on equal footing as
Atanasoff & Berry in my book... ]]
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
18 Apr
18 Apr
2:04 a.m.
At 08:43 AM 4/18/02 -0400, you wrote:
From: Cameron Kaiser
<spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>
Feh! Too common, everyone has a few many don't use them.
First it should be dimensionless, those are weird enough. If not then
like DB (DeciBell) which will give it a log or exponential character though
I'd be interested in seeing other oddly shaped numbers.
A possible name? Calcula with a range of values from microcalcula
(watch calc or smaller) to Kilo or maybe megacalcula(Sage! or other beast).
A great idea, but "calcula" has too many syllables. How about "ambit",
which
means the bounds or limits of a place or district, or a sphere of action,
expression, or influence? Then as Allison projected, we could have mega-ambit,
micro-ambit, 0.1 ambit, or 10 ambit as necessary.
Then we have to come up with the unity ambit (or whatever we choose) machine,
just like the VAX 11/780 was the gold standard for a 1 mip machine. I'm sure
that this part will be the most difficult given the broad range of this
group's
tastes. Something between a Babbage engine and an Apple I would be my guess.
A good check for the quality of the equation would be to verify that the
number
increases properly with the various machines over the years...
--tom
If a
formula for determining classic computer cool factor gets finalized,
I'd like to create a calculator script on the VCF website so that people
can enter their parameters and have their score automatically computed.
We need a unit or label for this number.
The neuron.
17 Apr
17 Apr
6:36 p.m.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Tom Uban wrote:
Then we have to come up with the unity ambit (or
whatever we choose)
machine, just like the VAX 11/780 was the gold standard for a 1 mip
machine. I'm sure that this part will be the most difficult given the
broad range of this group's tastes. Something between a Babbage engine
and an Apple I would be my guess. A good check for the quality of the
equation would be to verify that the number increases properly with the
various machines over the years...
I'm thinking good benchmark machines might be either the PDP-1 or IBM 1130
as they bridge the gap in my mind between mainframes and "personal
computers".
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
18 Apr
18 Apr
3:27 a.m.
I'm thinking good benchmark machines might be
either the PDP-1 or IBM 1130
as they bridge the gap in my mind between mainframes and "personal
computers".
Being primarily a DEC collector, I would choose the PDP-1 out of these two,
but one of the CDC line, such as the 6600, might be of interest as well, even
though it is not much of a "bridge"...
--tom
4:10 a.m.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Tom Uban wrote:
The 6600 could be made into a bridge. There's certainly enough metal
there.
Peace... Sridhar
I'm
thinking good benchmark machines might be either the PDP-1 or IBM 1130
as they bridge the gap in my mind between mainframes and "personal
computers".
Being primarily a DEC collector, I would choose the PDP-1 out of these two,
but one of the CDC line, such as the 6600, might be of interest as well, even
though it is not much of a "bridge"...
2:37 a.m.
How about "ambit", which
Keep this as a measure of storage Density (itself important),
and find a more verblike term for calculations, which are a
form of action. Ambit would then be perfect (ambits ~= bits
per cubit or whatever) as a second measure term.
Then we have to come up with the unity ambit (or
whatever we
choose) machine,
I like 1 calculation per second here, esp for a logarithmic scale,
so as to keep all machines in the positive range. KIPS/KOPS was
a popular measure before MIPS.
John A.
3:33 a.m.
Allison wrote:
From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu>
>> If a formula for determining classic computer cool factor gets finalized,
>> I'd like to create a calculator script on the VCF website so that people
>> can enter their parameters and have their score automatically computed.
1) I can't get on the site.
2) Lets have 3 ratings 1) Base system 2) Typical system 3) Max system.
3) I think we also need generation classes as a tube cpu out performs a
LOW POWER CMOS chip set like the 6100 (PDP-8).
possible name? Calcula with a range of values from
microcalcula
(watch calc or smaller) to Kilo or maybe megacalcula(Sage! or other beast).
The
henge ( as from stone-henge) ?
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
17 Apr
17 Apr
9:27 p.m.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote:
Why not?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
Allison wrote:
>
I wrote this (not Cameron):
>> If a
formula for determining classic computer cool factor gets finalized,
>> I'd like to create a calculator script on the VCF website so that people
>> can enter their parameters and have their score automatically computed.
1) I can't get on the site.
8274
days inactive
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days old
48 comments
19 participants
participants (19)
-
ajp166＠bellatlantic.net -
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
carlos_murillo＠epm.net.co -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
Huw.Davies＠kerberos.davies.net.au -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu -
meltie＠myrealbox.com -
spc＠conman.org -
uban＠ubanproductions.com -
vance＠ikickass.org -
zmerch＠30below.com