25 Aug
2005
25 Aug
'05
1:07 p.m.
Remember punchcards?
Does anyone read them these days?
I'm just curious if anyone does, and if they do, how they do it.
Someone approached me with some tapes to read and they also had 2 boxes
of cards.
I remember a nifty desktop card reader attached to a PDP-8/L once. I
never used it but it sure seems like it would be easy/fun to wire it up
to something more modern.
Do small desktop card readers exist anymore? Anyone got one?
(I can hear the chorus now - "medication time!" :-)
-brad
25 Aug
25 Aug
1:12 p.m.
On 8/25/05, Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> wrote:
Remember punchcards?
Yep.
Does anyone read them these days?
Not me.
I'm just curious if anyone does, and if they do,
how they do it.
I started to write an app in C that could take a medium-res scan of a
punch card (from a fax scanner I have) and "OCR" it, but I kinda lost
interest after I got it as far as locating the edges of the card
within the scan image. I never wrote any code to look for holes.
For volume production, I think it's well worth maintaining a tabletop
card reader. They are somewhat rare, but once you have one working,
it's just as easy to read 2000 cards as to read 20.
-ethan
1:13 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Brad Parker wrote:
Do small desktop card readers exist anymore? Anyone
got one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5233845775
There's also a guy in Texas who periodically sells Documation readers
on Ebay.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
1:17 p.m.
>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker
<brad at heeltoe.com> writes:
Brad> Remember punchcards?
Brad> Does anyone read them these days?
I think I've heard of at least one of the serious retrocomputors who
has a card reader.
Brad> Someone approached me with some tapes to read and they also had
Brad> 2 boxes of cards.
Brad> I remember a nifty desktop card reader attached to a PDP-8/L
Brad> once. I never used it but it sure seems like it would be
Brad> easy/fun to wire it up to something more modern.
There were several types of card readers for the PDP-11. One is quite
small, fairly slow -- the CR11. The other is somewhat bigger (either
a tabletop model or a freestanding unit, depending on hopper size) and
comparable in speed to mainframe readers -- the CD11. Either one
would do very nicely if you happen to have a PDP11 around. (Or a VAX?
I think VMS had support for them.)
And of course there are some big machines around with card readers...
The folks at www.cray-cyber.org have one, judging by the photos,
though it isn't clear whether it is hooked up.
paul
9:55 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Paul Koning wrote:
There were several types of card readers for the
PDP-11. One is quite
small, fairly slow -- the CR11.
The CR11 is a re-badged Documation M200 (200 cards per minute).
The other is somewhat bigger (either
a tabletop model or a freestanding unit, depending on hopper size) and
comparable in speed to mainframe readers -- the CD11.
That's probably the M1000 unit (1000 cards per minute).
Either one would do very nicely if you happen to have
a PDP11 around.
(Or a VAX? I think VMS had support for them.)
Or an Apple ][ with a 6522 VIA adapater ;) Or Brian Knittles way cool
USB interface.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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26 Aug
26 Aug
8:55 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:17:45 -0400
Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> wrote:
And of course there are some big machines around with
card readers...
The folks at www.cray-cyber.org have one, judging by the photos,
though it isn't clear whether it is hooked up.
Last time I was down there in
that basement it was hooked up. We tried
to read some batches, but it didn't work well as the reader needed some
readjustment of the feeder mechanics. No big deal. So I expect it to be
in working order by now.
At the VCF Europa 2004 you could punch cards with FORTRAN programms at
the exhibition hall. The batches where transfered to the Cray-Cyber
Compute Center by car, read with the reader mentioned above, processed
and a few hours later you got the print out from your job.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
25 Aug
25 Aug
1:25 p.m.
Do small desktop card readers exist anymore? Anyone
got one?
I've got one. I even know right where it is, though getting to it would be
another matter :^)
Peripheral Dynamics Card Reader
http://www.avanthar.com/healyzh/C302.html
The down side is I don't have any idea on how to hook it up to anything. I
also have an "IBM Port-A-Punch Board & Stylus", and about an inch stack of
blank cards.
Zane
2:13 p.m.
I am another of those owners of a manual card punch...
Some members of this list probably have sheet-feed scanners
at least mechanically capable of grouped card reads.
As for the reading software, it could be a snap to do, at least
when compared to what we call standard OCR today.
More down to earth, There is an eBayer up in ?Minnesota?
?Montana? that cornered the market on card readers, uses
a few for himself, and sells the rest.
John A.
8 p.m.
I have one of the card readers currently listed on Ebay. It is
in perfect condition, and is equiped with RS232 interface, for
convenient reading on a PC or whatever.
I also have a 129, and 029 punch, with the 129 working well,
the 029 untested, (and purchased from above card reader
seller a year ago).
I recommend his units, they look good. I believe he may list
more.
Biggest problem to deal with is age of rollers, and since these
are taken from recent service, they should last longer than the
originals.
Main project to use this for, is direct interface into Hercules
running MVS 3.8, by the way.
Jim
John Allain wrote:
8:04 p.m.
On 8/25/05, jim stephens <jwstephens at msm.umr.edu> wrote:
I have one of the card readers currently listed on
Ebay. It is
in perfect condition, and is equiped with RS232 interface, for
convenient reading on a PC or whatever.
If I ever get my 029 punch cleaned up and online, I'll be a lot more
interested in a reader. Ah, well... another project for another day.
-ethan
26 Aug
26 Aug
12:18 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, jim stephens wrote:
I have one of the card readers currently listed on
Ebay. It is
in perfect condition, and is equiped with RS232 interface, for
convenient reading on a PC or whatever.
Have you gotten the serial interface to work?
Biggest problem to deal with is age of rollers, and
since these
are taken from recent service, they should last longer than the
originals.
I'm not sure how old my M200 is or when it was last serviced, but I found
it under a pile at Mike Quinn Electronics years ago and when I put it back
into service it worked really well. It still does. I just ran 30,000
cards through. It definitely needs some maintenance now as it makes a
harsh noise when it's operating. Will have to find time to open it up and
lubricate the bearings and what not.
--
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29 Aug
29 Aug
2:40 p.m.
selam,
I just got it and have not powered it on. I do have the manual for it, and
for
the underlying m1000, so hopefully this will go better than my m200 did.
it melted the rollers due to age.
still need replacement rollers and service on that one.
jim
On 8/26/05, Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, jim stephens wrote:
watch for the smog melting of the rollers too.
--
I have one of the card readers currently listed
on Ebay. It is
in perfect condition, and is equiped with RS232 interface, for
convenient reading on a PC or whatever.
Have you gotten the serial interface to work?
Biggest problem to deal with is age of rollers,
and since these
are taken from recent service, they should last longer than the
originals.
I'm not sure how old my M200 is or when it was last serviced, but I found
it under a pile at Mike Quinn Electronics years ago and when I put it back
into service it worked really well. It still does. I just ran 30,000
cards through. It definitely needs some maintenance now as it makes a
harsh noise when it's operating. Will have to find time to open it up and
lubricate the bearings and what not.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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]
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http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
3:02 p.m.
On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, jim stephens wrote:
I just got it and have not powered it on. I do have
the manual for it,
and for the underlying m1000, so hopefully this will go better than my
m200 did.
Ooh! Can you get the manual for the serial converter scanned or
something? I'd love to get a copy.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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31 Aug
31 Aug
7:32 a.m.
Another punch card question.
Of those who've read cards recently, was moisture a problem? i.e. did
the cards ever swell due to moisture and then jam, or was this not a
problem? just curious.
-brad
7:16 p.m.
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005, Brad Parker wrote:
Another punch card question.
Of those who've read cards recently, was moisture a problem? i.e. did
the cards ever swell due to moisture and then jam, or was this not a
problem? just curious.
Never had a problem with this. Most of the problems I have are cards that
have not been stored appropriately and have bent or otherwise deformed
over time. It's a bitch having to bend them back flat (a process of
bending with my hands, over my knee, and in some cases when they just
won't cooperate, whacking them repeatedly over the edge of a table).
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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25 Aug
25 Aug
1:27 p.m.
I think Sellam has a system setup for reading Punchcards...
Curt
Brad Parker wrote:
Remember punchcards?
Does anyone read them these days?
I'm just curious if anyone does, and if they do, how they do it.
Someone approached me with some tapes to read and they also had 2 boxes
of cards.
I remember a nifty desktop card reader attached to a PDP-8/L once. I
never used it but it sure seems like it would be easy/fun to wire it up
to something more modern.
Do small desktop card readers exist anymore? Anyone got one?
(I can hear the chorus now - "medication time!" :-)
-brad
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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26 Aug
26 Aug
9:49 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, William Donzelli wrote:
Yeah, but I taste good.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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Do small
desktop card readers exist anymore? Anyone got one?
Only weenies use desktop card readers. 
25 Aug
25 Aug
7:39 p.m.
Brad wrote....
Remember punchcards?
Yes.
Does anyone read them these days?
Yes.
I'm just curious if anyone does, and if they do,
how they do it.
I use a punch card reader.
Someone approached me with some tapes to read and they
also had 2 boxes
of cards.
They should use a punch card reader to read them.
I remember a nifty desktop card reader attached to a
PDP-8/L once. I
never used it but it sure seems like it would be easy/fun to wire it up
to something more modern.
Nah, wire it up to the original system it was designed
for!
Do small desktop card readers exist anymore? Anyone
got one?
Yes, on both counts :)
The documation readers are somewhat available nowdays, coming out of
election use. I believe early HP's used the documation (never checked that
myself). However, HP did actually produce a punch card reader, model 7261 or
7621 I seem to recall. I have one, and it's not terribly far down my "to be
restored" list. I actually used this same unit in high school on the HP2000,
so it WILL get restored someday. Many fond memories of this unit. Hope I
have enough spare bits to make it run again!
Jay West
7:55 p.m.
...
The documation readers are somewhat available nowdays,
coming
out of election use.
There have been a bunch coming out on eBay lately but they have been asking
$300 & up. I am glad to hear that there is a reason and maybe if there is a
flood of them then the price will come down. The Four-Phase Systems IV/70
used to use these to boot a system that was being used for terminal
emulation only - had no disk or tapes. Mostly they used the smaller unit
that was about 80 cards per minute. The ones showing up on eBay are larger
300 CPM units I think, though just from a distant photo you can't easily
distinguish the 600 CPM model.
HTH,
Gil
26 Aug
26 Aug
12:16 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Gil Carrick wrote:
There have been a bunch coming out on eBay lately but
they have been asking
$300 & up. I am glad to hear that there is a reason and maybe if there is a
flood of them then the price will come down. The Four-Phase Systems IV/70
used to use these to boot a system that was being used for terminal
emulation only - had no disk or tapes. Mostly they used the smaller unit
that was about 80 cards per minute. The ones showing up on eBay are larger
300 CPM units I think, though just from a distant photo you can't easily
distinguish the 600 CPM model.
When people aren't paying stupid money for them, you can usually get one
of the better Documation readers for under $150. Recent models listed
have been 300, 600 and 1000 CPM. I have 200 and 1000 CPM models.
If you do get one, you'll still need to figure out how to interface it.
My Apple ][ interface isn't terribly practical, so Brian Knittel's USB
interface is definitely the way to go. The schematics, firmware and
software to build your own are available for download here:
http://ibm1130.org/sim/downloads/cardread.zip
Brian RAWKS!!!
M1000 units with serial converter units attached are out there and show up
on eBay a lot. However, I haven't played with mine yet and don't know how
it works.
--
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12:11 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Jay West wrote:
The documation readers are somewhat available nowdays,
coming out of
election use. I believe early HP's used the documation (never checked that
myself). However, HP did actually produce a punch card reader, model 7261 or
7621 I seem to recall. I have one, and it's not terribly far down my "to be
restored" list. I actually used this same unit in high school on the HP2000,
so it WILL get restored someday. Many fond memories of this unit. Hope I
have enough spare bits to make it run again!
I have one of these readers as well. It's a 9869A Calculator Card Reader.
I also have another one with a different model (don't have it handy). It
was one of the candidates I selected when I first set out to get a punched
card reader working. Unfortunately, as with most HP equipment of this
era, the roller literally melted into a puddle of goo on the bottom of the
reader input hopper.
Does anyone know how fast these HP readers are supposed to be?
--
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25 Aug
25 Aug
9:52 p.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Brad Parker wrote:
Remember punchcards?
Maybe.
Does anyone read them these days?
Occasionally.
I'm just curious if anyone does, and if they do,
how they do it.
I grew up with the Apple ][ so I went with what I know. I had a 6522 VIA
card I built in a college course years ago. So I managed to interface my
Documation M200 (200 cards per minute) to an Apple //e via the 6522 card.
I wrote a little driver application that reads an decodes the cards (based
on whatever character set I have loaded) and optinally sends the data
over a serial port to a waiting PC. I have a laptop running Procomm Plus
in logging mode.
The Apple //e reads the cards, decodes them, then transmits the entire
card over the serial port to the PC at 9600bps. This all happens fast
enough to keep up with the 200 CPM rate.
Someone approached me with some tapes to read and they
also had 2 boxes
of cards.
Let me know if you need assistance with this.
--
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28 Aug
28 Aug
9:52 a.m.
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Jay West wrote:
Sellam wrote...
Ok, you are now obligated to find that card reader and spill all the
details about it. I *must* know :)
One of my back-burner time-wasting projects is to build a custom card
reader interface card for the Apple ][ ;)
--
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I grew up with the Apple ][ so I went with what I
know. I had a 6522 VIA
card I built in a college course years ago.
Somewhere, in the basement, I'm positive I have a cardreader that was
expressly designed to be hooked up to the Apple. 
26 Aug
26 Aug
1:56 a.m.
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Brad Parker wrote:
Remember punchcards?
Why just remember? We're using them on our IBM 1130 and IBM 029 in our
museum.
Does anyone read them these days?
I'm just curious if anyone does, and if they do, how they do it.
Of course, reading them on the IBM 1442 reader and transfering them to a
Unix machine is no problem. We've attached a parallel to RS232 converter
to the IBM paper tape punch so we can read the cards and virtually "punch"
them to a modern Unix machine, both EBCDIC and binary cards.
Christian
--
www.computermuseum-stuttgart.de
7052
days inactive
7059
days old
25 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
allain＠panix.com -
aw288＠osfn.org -
brad＠heeltoe.com -
cc＠corti-net.de -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
gilcarrick＠comcast.net -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
james.w.stephens＠gmail.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
vcf＠siconic.com