1 Jun
2006
1 Jun
'06
9 p.m.
Hi,
I have several (different) MO drives -- including
a small jukebox.
But, it seems that most OS's don't have support
for them -- usually the BLOCKSIZE != 512 issue
is the killer.
Amusingly, *Windows* seems to talk to all of them
(but that is my last choice!). I believe Linux
will, as well (but I don't want to run Linux).
[I think I would prefer to get them running
under Solaris or NetBSD]
So, given that these devices have been around for
ages, what was talking to them?
Thanks,
--don
1 Jun
1 Jun
11:05 p.m.
Don Y wrote:
Hi,
I have several (different) MO drives -- including
a small jukebox.
But, it seems that most OS's don't have support
for them -- usually the BLOCKSIZE != 512 issue
is the killer.
Amusingly, *Windows* seems to talk to all of them
(but that is my last choice!). I believe Linux
will, as well (but I don't want to run Linux).
[I think I would prefer to get them running
under Solaris or NetBSD]
So, given that these devices have been around for
ages, what was talking to them?
don,
from your list above what "most" os's
dont support
the MO devices? I dont recall having any problem
with SCSI attached MO drives that I have used since
at least with PC platforms, they are mapped to being
bios supported units.
Maybe non PC platforms? I used them with Solaris
on sparcstations, and with HPUX, and AIX on their
respective platforms to interchnge data.
There was a jukebox support program distributed
that I used one time that would issue commands to
the jukebox devices, but most of the time I used
MO drives only.
Jim
11:21 p.m.
jim stephens wrote:
Don Y wrote:
The jukebox control would be icing on the cake.
I've just not had any luck getting machines
to recognize the 1024 or 2048 byte sector sizes.
*If* they talk to the drive, they end up treating
it AS IF the sectors were 512 bytes -- so you end
up only seeing 1/2 or 1/4 of the total disk capacity.
I've seen ADD ON products for MO support on things
like Slowaris... but, it doesn't seem to be native.
HPUX *may* be an exception (the JB is an HP product)
but I don't run HPUX... :-/
Or, am I just missing some little "trick"?? :-(
Thanks,
--don
Hi,
I have several (different) MO drives -- including
a small jukebox.
But, it seems that most OS's don't have support
for them -- usually the BLOCKSIZE != 512 issue
is the killer.
Amusingly, *Windows* seems to talk to all of them
(but that is my last choice!). I believe Linux
will, as well (but I don't want to run Linux).
[I think I would prefer to get them running
under Solaris or NetBSD]
So, given that these devices have been around for
ages, what was talking to them?
don,
from your list above what "most" os's dont support
the MO devices? I dont recall having any problem
with SCSI attached MO drives that I have used since
at least with PC platforms, they are mapped to being
bios supported units.
Maybe non PC platforms? I used them with Solaris
on sparcstations, and with HPUX, and AIX on their
respective platforms to interchnge data.
There was a jukebox support program distributed
that I used one time that would issue commands to
the jukebox devices, but most of the time I used
MO drives only.
11:31 p.m.
Don Y wrote:
Or, am I just missing some little "trick"?? :-(
Thanks,
--don
Sector size does mess up things. If you are not
using the device for booting, then it should not be
an issue.
I never saw anything but 512 byte / sector work
with any windows or dos version. the drivers dont
have any way to change the blocksize. I didnt
see the problem you saw when using 1024 byte
media, it just would spit it back out and do nothing.
Solaris should have no problem with this, and
of course booting wont be a problem there.
There is a jukebox program, I'll have to air out
the brain cells and try to remember what that
was called. If this rings any bells with others on
this list, chime in. The package I'm thinking about
is a public domain thing, i believe it works for
MO libaries, but is also written to issue select
commands to tape libraries. YMMV. it is
a good basis to start with.
It is not going to support different volumes
which auto select like the Pioneer cd 6 or
18 pack drives do, or the NEC scsi cdrom
drives do, which would be cute, but is only
framework to open a scsi target id, and issue
a select command to pull and swap in a different
media to a drive. I recall that someone had
used it with MO jukeboxes but I only saw it
used with DLT libraries. (Breece Hill).
Jim
2 Jun
2 Jun
12:20 a.m.
New subject: IBM 1620 panel on Ebay
The photos of this panel are exceptional With the current mix of
bidders, this
one will probably set more bidding records. 370 panels are a dime a dozen
compared to 1620 panels. only one to hear from now is Dennis K about
2 second before the end of the auction.
8817902582 is the auction, closes Jun 4 at 2:30pm PDT.
Jim
1:17 a.m.
jim stephens wrote:
Sector size does mess up things. If you are not
using the device for booting, then it should not be
an issue.
Well, if I can't build a filesystem on it, then it's
sort of a moot point! :>
I never saw anything but 512 byte / sector work
with any windows or dos version. the drivers dont
have any way to change the blocksize. I didnt
see the problem you saw when using 1024 byte
media, it just would spit it back out and do nothing.
I am pretty sure the Windows machine had *no* problems.
The UN*X boxen all seem to gag on the != 512 byte
sector size...
Solaris should have no problem with this, and
of course booting wont be a problem there.
I am almost 100% certain Solaris did NOT like the
1024/2048 byte sectors. I will try to make time this
weekend to test each medium/drive on a variety of
machines just to be sure.
There is a jukebox program, I'll have to air out
the brain cells and try to remember what that
was called. If this rings any bells with others on
this list, chime in. The package I'm thinking about
is a public domain thing, i believe it works for
MO libaries, but is also written to issue select
commands to tape libraries. YMMV. it is
a good basis to start with.
It is not going to support different volumes
which auto select like the Pioneer cd 6 or
18 pack drives do, or the NEC scsi cdrom
drives do, which would be cute, but is only
framework to open a scsi target id, and issue
a select command to pull and swap in a different
media to a drive. I recall that someone had
used it with MO jukeboxes but I only saw it
used with DLT libraries. (Breece Hill).
I can always use the front panel controls on the JB
to move media to/from the drives. I am more concerned
with trying to get full *use* of the media (i.e. not
throwing away half of each physical sector)
Thanks!
--don
2:53 a.m.
At 07:49 AM 6/2/06 -0500, you wrote:
At 11:00 PM 6/1/2006, Don Y wrote:
Apparently they were popular with lawyers too. I just picked up two
drives and a pile of unused disks from the State Attorney's office last
week. I expect they've switched over to CDs now. BOY are they in for a
surprise!
Joe
So, given that these devices have been around for
ages, what was talking to them?
There were MO drivers for Macs, too. I don't recall if there
were some for Amiga. Weren't MO devices popular for archiving
of medical images, like X-rays?
- John
7:25 a.m.
So, given that
these devices have been around for
ages, what was talking to them?
There were MO drivers for Macs, too. I don't recall if there
were some for Amiga. Weren't MO devices popular for archiving
of medical images, like X-rays? 
8:32 a.m.
The Pinnacle Micro MO stuff offered two types of media; 512 byte and 1024
byte sectors. I've got an Apex 4.3GB 512-byte sector cart around here
someplace. The drives would die if you looked at them cross-eyed--and I
think the miserable field record of the Apex drives contributed to the
eventual bankruptcy of Pinnacle.
Youi can still find the drives on ePay. In my experience, if you find one
that looks like a good deal, the seller will not warrant that it works.
Cheers,
Chuck
8:50 a.m.
Rumor has it that Chuck Guzis may have mentioned these words:
The Pinnacle Micro MO stuff offered two types of media;
512 byte and 1024
byte sectors. I've got an Apex 4.3GB 512-byte sector cart around here
someplace. The drives would die if you looked at them cross-eyed--and I
think the miserable field record of the Apex drives contributed to the
eventual bankruptcy of Pinnacle.
I have a MaxOptix Tahiti1 drive here on the shelf - 5.25" FH, heavy sucker,
standard SCSI - it'll take Tahiti 1G disks (500M/side - the one disk I had
always had R/W errors & problems) and standard 600Meg disks (300Meg/side -
the 2 I had worked flawlessly) - 512byte sectors. The only difference I
could see w/the Tahiti disk was that the sectors were staggered & there
were more sectors on the outer cylinders of the disk. Who knows: maybe that
confused the drive.... ;-)
From what I understand, the 650Meg disks (325Meg/side) disks had 1024 byte
sectors, and would not work with my drive.
AFAIK, it still works tho I haven't used it in prolly 4-5 years or so...
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
_??_ zmerch at 30below.com
(?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
_)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
9:39 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
The Pinnacle Micro MO stuff offered two types of
media; 512 byte and 1024
byte sectors. I've got an Apex 4.3GB 512-byte sector cart around here
someplace. The drives would die if you looked at them cross-eyed--and I
think the miserable field record of the Apex drives contributed to the
eventual bankruptcy of Pinnacle.
I have a pair of PMO650's that work well. And the Blue LED
(ahead of its time?) is really cool when writing! :>
But, they want their own "special" enclosures :-(
Youi can still find the drives on ePay. In my
experience, if you find one
that looks like a good deal, the seller will not warrant that it works.
3 Jun
3 Jun
2:56 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: MO support
The Pinnacle Micro MO stuff offered two types of
media; 512 byte and 1024
byte sectors. I've got an Apex 4.3GB 512-byte sector cart around here
someplace. The drives would die if you looked at them cross-eyed--and I
think the miserable field record of the Apex drives contributed to the
eventual bankruptcy of Pinnacle.
Youi can still find the drives on ePay. In my experience, if you find one
that looks like a good deal, the seller will not warrant that it works.
Cheers,
Chuck
So who made good MO drives back in the 1990's?
I have a Fujitsu 230MB 3.5" drive, a FWB Hammer 1300 that just came in today
(Maxoptix T3-1304 drive), and a Olympus MOS525. The last 2 drives are 5.25"
1.3GB and all are rewritable. Last year I lucked into the Olympus and
Fujitsu for free along with a huge box of media (quite a bit still in
shrink-wrap). I snagged the FWB box because I like having atleast 2
compatible drives around if I decide to archive material I will want to read
down the road. Atleast with my DDS4 tape drive I am sure I can find a
replacement cheap in 5 years, the old MO are still hard to come by cheaply.
3:16 p.m.
Teo Zenios wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: MO support
I like my Ricoh (5013?). But, damn impossible to find documentation
for it! :-( Needless to say, I never dick with the DIP switches
(without writing down their original settings) for fear of "breaking"
something...
The Pinnacle Micro MO stuff offered two types of
media; 512 byte and 1024
byte sectors. I've got an Apex 4.3GB 512-byte sector cart around here
someplace. The drives would die if you looked at them cross-eyed--and I
think the miserable field record of the Apex drives contributed to the
eventual bankruptcy of Pinnacle.
Youi can still find the drives on ePay. In my experience, if you find one
that looks like a good deal, the seller will not warrant that it works.
Cheers,
Chuck
So who made good MO drives back in the 1990's?
I have a Fujitsu 230MB 3.5" drive, a FWB Hammer 1300 that just came in today (Maxoptix T3-1304 drive), and a Olympus MOS525. The
last 2 drives are 5.25"
1.3GB and all are rewritable. Last year I lucked into the Olympus and
Fujitsu for free along with a huge box of media (quite a bit still in
Yeah, I picked up 200 shrink-wrapped 650M carts for a whopping $7
(total). I've been using them to give me backup copies (of backup
copies) of things that I *really* don't want to lose! :-/
shrink-wrap). I snagged the FWB box because I like
having atleast 2
compatible drives around if I decide to archive material I will want to read
down the road. Atleast with my DDS4 tape drive I am sure I can find a
replacement cheap in 5 years, the old MO are still hard to come by cheaply.
4:39 p.m.
> So who made good MO drives back in the 1990's?
AFAIK, most of the 650/MB1.3GB drives were okay, even the Pinnacle ones.
But Pinnacle got into a bunch of trouble pushing the technology to 4.3GB
and above.
What was the MO drive on the Next cube--650 MB? Seemed silly to me to
market the thing without a hard drive--and I think Next eventually came
around to that way of thinking.
Cheers,
Chuck
2 Jun
2 Jun
9:38 a.m.
John Foust wrote:
At 11:00 PM 6/1/2006, Don Y wrote:
At least some (all?) of my drives work on Macs "out of the box".
I.e. Mac's and PC's (and HPUX?) seem to be the only places
where you can just plug them in and they Do The Right Thing.
Disappointing that they don't seem to work elsewhere...
So, given that these devices have been around for
ages, what was talking to them?
There were MO drivers for Macs, too. I don't recall if there were some for Amiga. Weren't MO devices popular
for archiving
of medical images, like X-rays?
7094
days inactive
7095
days old
15 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
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cclist＠sydex.com -
dgy＠DakotaCom.Net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com